The reason we aren't going to go out and get a LT

[Russ 'Em]

So the draft is over and most media outlets are complaining that we didn't address our LT or QB needs in the first 4 rounds. Jared Gaither and Jamal Brown have been bandied around in the media and on this board as possible options for the Bills need. This however isn't going to happen. Jared Gaither, chronic foot injuries aside, is in the same mold of the guy we traded to the Eagles. He was drafted in the later rounds and turned into a starting caliber LT. He slipped that far because of his work ethic, unlike Peters who was a tight end. He got into a good system and was coached up to become a good young LT in this league. However, Baltimore must have saw some deficiency in his play that necessitated them picking a LT in the First round last year. A guy the Bills passed on. Brown was out all last season with a back injury. He is 29. He would be a stop gap for a couple years and it would be a risk paying him FA LT money when he didn't play ball last year.

 

Our offense seems to have some holes that will need to be addressed, there is no denying that. But our defense might have had the tougher task going into this offseason. Few teams have had success in switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4 in one year. We have alot of promising young talent on that side of the ball and we added more. I think Chan was trying to make that switch as easy as possible for the team. that's why they went out and stacked up on DEs and LBs. You can never have enough of either one in this system. Obviously they are going to run some hybrid defenses throughout the course of the game, but now that they have the needed talent in place they can be as confident as possible that there defense will not be the weak unit.

 

As I see it Nix is thinking this will be a 2 year "rebuilding" process. In quotes because obviously these guys will need to show improvement over last years debacle. In saying this I think that the HC and GM decided that Chan could coach up what he has on the offensive side of the ball this year. Waiting until next year to draft or bring in the starting LT and hopefully Qb of the future. We drafted some adequate backup line man in calloway and Wang and if they can shine in whatever action they get this year, who knows, diamonds in the rough. By all accounts next years Qb class will be ripe for the picking and I'm sure a LT prospect or 3 will rise above the rest of the comp.

 

This year is going to be about toughness, mental and physical, and who is going to be around for the rebuilding process. We have I think, the most rookie FA signed of any team this year. Our draft was made up of character, self motivated guys. Let the auditions for the Superbowl run of 2012 begin!

[IAmBuddyNix]

I agree with most of what you said. I think people freaking out that we didn't draft an LT or QB early in the draft would be replaced by people freaking out that we didn't get pieces for the 3-4 or any playmakers. Bad teams aren't going to fix all of their needs in one draft, I really hope we can get Gaither or Brown at a reasonable price, gives us one less need for next year. Nix and co. want to see what the QB's have to offer(Especially Brohm, considering we know the least about him) and then see if we can land one of the big four QB's in next April's draft(Locker, Luck, Ponder, Mallett).

[RealityCheck]

Truth is always stranger than fiction. QBs and LTs do in fact grow on trees. Super Bowl caliber QBs and LTs do not. It will take a little time for the opportunity to get such players on our roster presents itself. During the draft none of the players available at either position impressed me more than any other at the same position. As far as trading for a LT right now I see no reason to over spend in terms of next years draft picks. Brown and Gaither are not worth next years second in my opinion. The Ravens have foolishly advertised that Gaither has motivation issues. Not a good way to begin trade talks when your looking for a 1st or 2nd round pick in return.

[Gabe Northern]

Few teams have had success in switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4 in one year. We have alot of promising young talent on that side of the ball and we added more. I think Chan was trying to make that switch as easy as possible for the team. that's why they went out and stacked up on DEs and LBs. You can never have enough of either one in this system. Obviously they are going to run some hybrid defenses throughout the course of the game, but now that they have the needed talent in place they can be as confident as possible that there defense will not be the weak unit.

 

While it might not be the "weak unit," people need to tone down their expectations for this D.

 

We have zero OLBs on the roster. Kawicka moved inside. Maybin might work at OLB but was so clueless last year they had Bryan Scott play over him. I don't see how Kelsay makes the switch. Ditto for Ellis. That leaves Schobel, who doesn't look like he's coming back unless he gets some kind of Favre/Roger Clemens type deal, which isn't happening. So who's going to start? Maybin and hopefully, a converted DEs we drafted in the 6th round. I have high hopes for Batten (and Moats, who should be moved outside) but that's scary as hell.

 

Then consider that no one on our line (except for Dwan Edwards) has ever played their new position.

[Max997]

Jared Gaither, chronic foot injuries aside, is in the same mold of the guy we traded to the Eagles. He was drafted in the later rounds and turned into a starting caliber LT. He slipped that far because of his work ethic, unlike Peters who was a tight end. He got into a good system and was coached up to become a good young LT in this league. However, Baltimore must have saw some deficiency in his play that necessitated them picking a LT in the First round last year. A guy the Bills passed on.

 

first of all you need to get your facts straight

 

Jason Peters was an undrafetd rookie free agent the Bills signed to play tackle

 

Jared Gaither did not slip to the later rounds because of his work ethic, he wasnt even in the draft. He was selected in the 5th round of the Supplemental Draft and where a player is taken in that draft is entirely different then where he is taken in the NFL draft.

 

I guess since Baltimore decided to draft Oher it meant they must have saw some deficiency in Gaithers play? How about they just thought Oher was too good to pass up where they were picking or that they knew Gaither was coming up on free agency and they didnt want to pay him the going rate for top LTs in the league? Maybe they thought they would make something on their investment of a 5th round pick in the Supplemental Draft while also getting great value in Oher where they were able to get him

 

i dont know about anyone else but that just sounds like good football to me

[Saint Doug]

first of all you need to get your facts straight

 

Jason Peters was an undrafetd rookie free agent the Bills signed to play tackle

 

Was he actually signed to play tackle at first? Was he even re-signed to play tackle after we cut him at first?

[BuffaloBill]

Was he actually signed to play tackle at first? Was he even re-signed to play tackle after we cut him at first?

 

 

He came in as a tight end - his position at Arkansas. He converted to RT then to LT.

[Russ 'Em]

And according to his college coach at Maryland, he did have motivational and work ethic problems.

[Mr. WEO]

.

 

 

As I see it Nix is thinking this will be a 2 year "rebuilding" process. In saying this I think that the HC and GM decided that Chan could coach up what he has on the offensive side of the ball this year.

Is that why he tried to give away picks to get McNabb?

[transient]

And according to his college coach at Maryland, he did have motivational and work ethic problems.

 

And he was in the supplemental draft in the first place because he was ineligible to play his junior season because his grades were below that deemed acceptable by his coach.

[mousetrap08]

So the draft is over and most media outlets are complaining that we didn't address our LT or QB needs in the first 4 rounds. Jared Gaither and Jamal Brown have been bandied around in the media and on this board as possible options for the Bills need. This however isn't going to happen. Jared Gaither, chronic foot injuries aside, is in the same mold of the guy we traded to the Eagles. He was drafted in the later rounds and turned into a starting caliber LT. He slipped that far because of his work ethic, unlike Peters who was a tight end. He got into a good system and was coached up to become a good young LT in this league. However, Baltimore must have saw some deficiency in his play that necessitated them picking a LT in the First round last year. A guy the Bills passed on. Brown was out all last season with a back injury. He is 29. He would be a stop gap for a couple years and it would be a risk paying him FA LT money when he didn't play ball last year.

 

Our offense seems to have some holes that will need to be addressed, there is no denying that. But our defense might have had the tougher task going into this offseason. Few teams have had success in switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4 in one year. We have alot of promising young talent on that side of the ball and we added more. I think Chan was trying to make that switch as easy as possible for the team. that's why they went out and stacked up on DEs and LBs. You can never have enough of either one in this system. Obviously they are going to run some hybrid defenses throughout the course of the game, but now that they have the needed talent in place they can be as confident as possible that there defense will not be the weak unit.

As I see it Nix is thinking this will be a 2 year "rebuilding" process. In quotes because obviously these guys will need to show improvement over last years debacle. In saying this I think that the HC and GM decided that Chan could coach up what he has on the offensive side of the ball this year. Waiting until next year to draft or bring in the starting LT and hopefully Qb of the future. We drafted some adequate backup line man in calloway and Wang and if they can shine in whatever action they get this year, who knows, diamonds in the rough. By all accounts next years Qb class will be ripe for the picking and I'm sure a LT prospect or 3 will rise above the rest of the comp.

 

This year is going to be about toughness, mental and physical, and who is going to be around for the rebuilding process. We have I think, the most rookie FA signed of any team this year. Our draft was made up of character, self motivated guys. Let the auditions for the Superbowl run of 2012 begin!

[rocwocka]

Hey guys, not to be a Debbie Downer but, even if we hit on all our picks and some of the UFAs, we will not even be close to holding the jocks of the Pats* and Jets for a couple of years. They are proven in the most vital areas. Miami, on the other hand, is probably a lesser hurdle for us. Here's to hoping that competence will reign in our front office for the first time in 15 years!

[JohnC]

The Ravens have foolishly advertised that Gaither has motivation issues. Not a good way to begin trade talks when your looking for a 1st or 2nd round pick in return.

 

Most teams are very aware of the type of person Gaither is. There are few secrets in the league about players, especially those who are being dangled in the market. I'm not suggesting that Gaither is a bad dude. He is not. What he certainly is not is a self-motiveated and hard working employee.

 

Donavan McNabb is a probable HOF qb who still has 3-5 very productive years in front of him. He is a self-motivated player who works hard in and out of season. This franchise qb was traded for a second round pick. Gaither doesn't come close to DM's value. It is agreed that the LT position is one of the most critical positions on a team. Gaither is not the type of player/person to invest in, unless his trade price and contract expectations are very much lowered.

[thewildrabbit]

Yea well, it is a win now league and I think if this new HC and GM falter big time and go 1-15 or winless, then they can kiss their 2-3 year plan goodbye.

[Thurman#1]

Truth is always stranger than fiction. QBs and LTs do in fact grow on trees. Super Bowl caliber QBs and LTs do not. It will take a little time for the opportunity to get such players on our roster presents itself. During the draft none of the players available at either position impressed me more than any other at the same position. As far as trading for a LT right now I see no reason to over spend in terms of next years draft picks. Brown and Gaither are not worth next years second in my opinion. The Ravens have foolishly advertised that Gaither has motivation issues. Not a good way to begin trade talks when your looking for a 1st or 2nd round pick in return.

 

 

 

Yeah, "foolishly" advertised his motivation problems.

 

And how often do the Ravens get advertised as foolish in player personnel issues? How often do we hear unauthorized leaks from the Ravens?

 

They want to keep Gaither. We never heard about any motivation problems with him right up until this year when supposedly they wanted to get rid of him. Supposedly. On the other hand, they might be thinking that having two bookend tackles would be a perfect situation for them. What better way to stop teams from offering enough to seriously threaten to get him.

 

There's no way to wrest Gaither away without a first-round pick. Other than that, the Ravens can turn the deals down.

 

The Ravens love the way this is going. They can tell Gaither that nobody wanted him, and "Hey, we don't know where that rumor came from. Do you think you have motivation issues, Jared?"

[Thurman#1]

Most teams are very aware of the type of person Gaither is. There are few secrets in the league about players, especially those who are being dangled in the market. I'm not suggesting that Gaither is a bad dude. He is not. What he certainly is not is a self-motiveated and hard working employee.

 

Donavan McNabb is a probable HOF qb who still has 3-5 very productive years in front of him. He is a self-motivated player who works hard in and out of season. This franchise qb was traded for a second round pick. Gaither doesn't come close to DM's value. It is agreed that the LT position is one of the most critical positions on a team. Gaither is not the type of player/person to invest in, unless his trade price and contract expectations are very much lowered.

 

 

 

McNabb is near the end of his career. If he were Gaither's age, you'd have had to give two firsts to have gotten him.

[SouthGeorgiaBillsFan]

The problem is that we used our top draft pick on the one position that we needed least. That right there pretty much killed any optimism I had about the new regime. I did like the way we drafted on the defensive side of the ball, but drafting Spiller was supremely ill-advised imo. I'm not going to lie, I wanted Tebow at #9. I think OT is a much bigger need for us than QB but even still I watched Tebow play in at least 15 games and I believe he is going to be an elite hall of fame caliber QB. But if not Tebow, why oh why did we not draft an OT or trade down for more picks if we didn't like the value at #9? It just doesn't make an ounce of sense to me, for a team with more holes than solid positions to draft with their top pick the one position where we have talent and depth. It is beyond idiotic and really I'm tired of people trying to sugar coat this or be optimistic about it. What we should all be is pissed off (again). I hate to rain on the little optimism parade but we are going to suck so hard its not going to be funny. Even though I think we drafted well on defense, our defense is not going to be in the top half of the league. Not even close. We will be abused on both sides of the ball, and even when the defense is having a competitive game, our offensive ineptitude is going to force them to stay on the field until they become exhausted and then get steamrolled or injured, again. No, this is not going to be a good season.

[JohnC]

McNabb is near the end of his career. If he were Gaither's age, you'd have had to give two firsts to have gotten him.

 

McNabb is a franchise qb, admittedly at the end of his career. But given that he still is capable of playing at a very high level for 3-5 yrs. The point I was making is that even at this late stage of his career he has more trade value than the younger LT, Gaither who has some less impressive work habits.

 

As far as giving up two first round picks for a younger McNabb even that deal would never have happened. Most teams don't give up their probable HOF qb in their prime and the face of their very successful franchse.

[coseybedaman]

Gaither is a complete stud at left tackle first of all. Secondly, he is NOTHING like Jason Peters in the slightest bit. Gaither is a smothering, huge, and uncharacteristically tall tackle. Like previously noted, Peters was a quick, athletic, tight end conversion. Are we seriously worried about the man's grades in college?? Fact of the matter is that he has been an exceptional tackle, and the Michael Oher pick was an example of a team with a ton of depth drafting the best player on their board rather than going with a need. Oher is very marketable as well and Gaither's contract was running out. None of these reasons warrant not picking Gaither up in my opinion. A franchise left tackle makes the ENTIRE line much better as we have seen time and time again. I am sick of trying to build ONLY through the draft. I agree that is where your core comes from, but if you look at EVERY super bowl winner for the last 10 years free agency and trades are always just as much a factor as drafted players on those teams. YOU NEED BOTH!

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Yea well, it is a win now league and I think if this new HC and GM falter big time and go 1-15 or winless, then they can kiss their 2-3 year plan goodbye.

 

 

If it is really a win now league as you say, then I'd say having a 2-3 year plan should give us a competitive advantage in year 2 or 3...

[birdog1960]

Gaither is a complete stud at left tackle first of all. Secondly, he is NOTHING like Jason Peters in the slightest bit. Gaither is a smothering, huge, and uncharacteristically tall tackle. Like previously noted, Peters was a quick, athletic, tight end conversion. Are we seriously worried about the man's grades in college?? Fact of the matter is that he has been an exceptional tackle, and the Michael Oher pick was an example of a team with a ton of depth drafting the best player on their board rather than going with a need. Oher is very marketable as well and Gaither's contract was running out. None of these reasons warrant not picking Gaither up in my opinion. A franchise left tackle makes the ENTIRE line much better as we have seen time and time again. I am sick of trying to build ONLY through the draft. I agree that is where your core comes from, but if you look at EVERY super bowl winner for the last 10 years free agency and trades are always just as much a factor as drafted players on those teams. YOU NEED BOTH!

this..but the bills are clearly not in a win now mindset. hell, i'm not sure there in a win it all ever mindset. thus, i believe they rationalize not signing an expensive LT (and they are all expensive) as throwing good money after bad. the investment isn't likely to result in immediate large rewards so wait til they're closer to being competitive to spend big on this position. sucks for us fans but good for the bottom line. that said, i hope i'm wrong, they get him and truly signal a new direction for the franchise.

[Mickey]

He came in as a tight end - his position at Arkansas. He converted to RT then to LT.

 

He was listed in that draft at his college position but everyone and their brother had him projected as a developmental tackle. Initially he played special teams and the third TE in 3 TE formations, essentially playing as an extra tackle. His blocking at those positions was excellent so they made him an official T so he could start taking reps there. He left special teams which almost immediately caused the special teams to lose a step on returns. Everyone knows the rest for what earthly relevance any of this has to our future LT plans.

 

I don't see any mysteries or grand strategies in place here. If they could fill all the holes in one year and make the playoffs immediately, they would. Its just not possible so they did what they could with what they have. There really isn't a single pick they made that you credibly argue they didn't need to make. Certainly, you could argue that some other hole should have been filled with that pick but its not as if they just wasted a pick.

 

We needed a playmaker, we got one, a guy who quite possibly might be the best player in that draft. We needed a NT, we needed 3-4 DE's and LB's, etc. They took their shot at some late round diamonds in the rough, or so they hope, with Wang, Calloway and Brown to try an address those spots.

 

Its a good start.

[Russ 'Em]

The problem is that we used our top draft pick on the one position that we needed least. That right there pretty much killed any optimism I had about the new regime. I did like the way we drafted on the defensive side of the ball, but drafting Spiller was supremely ill-advised imo. I'm not going to lie, I wanted Tebow at #9. I think OT is a much bigger need for us than QB but even still I watched Tebow play in at least 15 games and I believe he is going to be an elite hall of fame caliber QB. But if not Tebow, why oh why did we not draft an OT or trade down for more picks if we didn't like the value at #9? It just doesn't make an ounce of sense to me, for a team with more holes than solid positions to draft with their top pick the one position where we have talent and depth. It is beyond idiotic and really I'm tired of people trying to sugar coat this or be optimistic about it. What we should all be is pissed off (again). I hate to rain on the little optimism parade but we are going to suck so hard its not going to be funny. Even though I think we drafted well on defense, our defense is not going to be in the top half of the league. Not even close. We will be abused on both sides of the ball, and even when the defense is having a competitive game, our offensive ineptitude is going to force them to stay on the field until they become exhausted and then get steamrolled or injured, again. No, this is not going to be a good season.

 

 

You can't honestly tank the Spiller pick then in the next sentence say you wanted to take Tim Tebow with the 9th overall pick. That is ludicrous. There was no way we were going to reach for a positional need, fill it with a qb who many pro dept.s say wont play for 3 years, and pass on the best player in this years draft class, with the ghosts of JP Losman and other recent reaches haunting the fanbase.

[Wilson from Gamehendge]

first of all you need to get your facts straight

 

Jason Peters was an undrafetd rookie free agent the Bills signed to play tackle

 

Jared Gaither did not slip to the later rounds because of his work ethic, he wasnt even in the draft. He was selected in the 5th round of the Supplemental Draft and where a player is taken in that draft is entirely different then where he is taken in the NFL draft.

 

I guess since Baltimore decided to draft Oher it meant they must have saw some deficiency in Gaithers play? How about they just thought Oher was too good to pass up where they were picking or that they knew Gaither was coming up on free agency and they didnt want to pay him the going rate for top LTs in the league? Maybe they thought they would make something on their investment of a 5th round pick in the Supplemental Draft while also getting great value in Oher where they were able to get him

 

i dont know about anyone else but that just sounds like good football to me

Agreed 100%! Well done Max!

 

Gaither was deemed academically ineligible for the 2007 season, being allowed to return in 2008. Instead of waiting and sitting out an entire year, he realized his potential and entered into the supplemental draft.

 

Yes, his college coach saw a problem with his work ethic and attitude...but that had ZERO effect on why he was not in the draft or where he ultimately ended up being drafted.

 

 

Here is a good article about Gaither and his habits...which can most certainly be changed, just as they were in 2008.

http://www.realclearsports.com/blognetwork...ed-gaither.html

 

 

I would definitely want him on this team and I WOULD be alright with giving up a 2nd rounder to get him...he is a MASSIVE man and is an elite LT in the NFL....we could get that 2nd back by trading away a CB or RB that proves himself this year, ala Lynch and/or Youboty/McGee/Corner etc...

[SoulMan]

So the draft is over and most media outlets are complaining that we didn't address our LT or QB needs in the first 4 rounds. Jared Gaither and Jamal Brown have been bandied around in the media and on this board as possible options for the Bills need. This however isn't going to happen. Jared Gaither, chronic foot injuries aside, is in the same mold of the guy we traded to the Eagles. He was drafted in the later rounds and turned into a starting caliber LT. He slipped that far because of his work ethic, unlike Peters who was a tight end. He got into a good system and was coached up to become a good young LT in this league. However, Baltimore must have saw some deficiency in his play that necessitated them picking a LT in the First round last year. A guy the Bills passed on. Brown was out all last season with a back injury. He is 29. He would be a stop gap for a couple years and it would be a risk paying him FA LT money when he didn't play ball last year.

 

Our offense seems to have some holes that will need to be addressed, there is no denying that. But our defense might have had the tougher task going into this offseason. Few teams have had success in switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4 in one year. We have alot of promising young talent on that side of the ball and we added more. I think Chan was trying to make that switch as easy as possible for the team. that's why they went out and stacked up on DEs and LBs. You can never have enough of either one in this system. Obviously they are going to run some hybrid defenses throughout the course of the game, but now that they have the needed talent in place they can be as confident as possible that there defense will not be the weak unit.

 

As I see it Nix is thinking this will be a 2 year "rebuilding" process. In quotes because obviously these guys will need to show improvement over last years debacle. In saying this I think that the HC and GM decided that Chan could coach up what he has on the offensive side of the ball this year. Waiting until next year to draft or bring in the starting LT and hopefully Qb of the future. We drafted some adequate backup line man in calloway and Wang and if they can shine in whatever action they get this year, who knows, diamonds in the rough. By all accounts next years Qb class will be ripe for the picking and I'm sure a LT prospect or 3 will rise above the rest of the comp.

 

This year is going to be about toughness, mental and physical, and who is going to be around for the rebuilding process. We have I think, the most rookie FA signed of any team this year. Our draft was made up of character, self motivated guys. Let the auditions for the Superbowl run of 2012 begin!

 

BS...All good teams in the league build an O line first. The fact that this Bills FO doesn't get that doesn't make me optimistic about a 2 year plan or any year plan. As a Bills fan, I hope I'm wrong.

[mob16151]

And he was in the supplemental draft in the first place because he was ineligible to play his junior season because his grades were below that deemed acceptable by his coach.

 

 

Are you sure you don't mean the Athletic Department, and not coach? Sorry to be nit picky but I'm pretty sure Marylands HC would have preffered to keep him around for another season.

[Webster Guy]

While it might not be the "weak unit," people need to tone down their expectations for this D.

 

We have zero OLBs on the roster. Kawicka moved inside. Maybin might work at OLB but was so clueless last year they had Bryan Scott play over him. I don't see how Kelsay makes the switch. Ditto for Ellis. That leaves Schobel, who doesn't look like he's coming back unless he gets some kind of Favre/Roger Clemens type deal, which isn't happening. So who's going to start? Maybin and hopefully, a converted DEs we drafted in the 6th round. I have high hopes for Batten (and Moats, who should be moved outside) but that's scary as hell.

 

Then consider that no one on our line (except for Dwan Edwards) has ever played their new position.

Dude you're forgetting Andra Davis. He's a proven 90 tackle a year OLB who knows the 3-4. He even had 3.5 sacks last year. He's a 9 year vet but he's played healthy and he's still effective.

[qwksilver]

Yea well, it is a win now league and I think if this new HC and GM falter big time and go 1-15 or winless, then they can kiss their 2-3 year plan goodbye.

 

That would be a very painful/difficult year. Followed by a lockout. NICE!

[whodat]

Yea well, it is a win now league and I think if this new HC and GM falter big time and go 1-15 or winless, then they can kiss their 2-3 year plan goodbye.

 

And if you should step in front of a moving bus, you should discount your personal 2 year plan. Save your useless if projections.

[BillnutinHouston]

That leaves Schobel, who doesn't look like he's coming back unless he gets some kind of Favre/Roger Clemens type deal, which isn't happening.

 

Why are you so sure that Schobel won't be back? As I understand it, he's due to make about $6 million this year which may be ample motivation for him to go one more year. And unless Chan's public statements so far (very "soft line" on forcing him to make a decision) have been a complete smokescreen, Chan seems to be willing to give Schobel pretty wide latitude.