Dr. Who

You and the Chiefs' fan can cogitate on that interesting question. The only thing that matters is how Allen develops.

I think they expect him to be good. This notion that they are uncertain is projecting by a certain sector who have always been skeptical for the most part. I think the locker room is convinced. Doesn't mean they couldn't be wrong, but they didn't invest in Diggs to get clarity.

Agreed. Happy Birthday, Josh.

I think you have to take into account that generally McDermott/Daboll call a conservative game. If we got a lead, they'd turtle and count on the D. We'll see what happens this year. Hopefully there is a season so we can find out.

Option 1 -- just because it's what your heart wants doesn't make it irrational. So far, only poster I value who has voted #3 is Logic. Don't add to that list. I should clarify the rest of you fellas who are wrong are okay, but it didn't hurt me to see your names there.

If he hits the long ball, all those folks voting against top ten qb are in lost the bet category.

I concur given the specific circumstances, but it was generally a trend overall.

No excuse for that kind of game plan anymore. Josh in his third year, o-line has a year to gain familiarity, Diggs trade, Knox second year, Moss to replace old man Gore. Training wheels off. Get and build leads.

You've just become TwistofFate's new best friend.

If I read that fella correctly, technically he thinks he is mediocre.

I sorta wonder if he is JeffisMagic.

Think there needs to be a limit. Poor fella is going to be living in a cardboard box.

I'm sure it's been one of the main foci of Allen's off-season. Add in Diggs, improved o-line due to familiarity, Moss adding a compelling weapon to the running game, Knox in his second year, there's plenty of compelling factors to indicate continued growth and improvement in Allen's game.

Nice of you to stay away, but then again, here you are. 1 -- Whenever there is a debate, excuses are reasons and reasons are excuses depending on which side you happen to favor. There are very few if any Allen optimists who do not recognize he needs to grow and improve, so if you're implying otherwise, I don't see it. 2 -- No one says Allen is the only young qb that can improve. The focus is on Allen because he's our qb. Get over it. And the substantial argument about growth points to Allen's unique backstory that includes less playing time and lack of superior coaching at the collegiate level as a factor that makes it reasonable to argue that he has more room for growth. 3 -- Allen is now in a great situation. The first year his surrounding talent was an utter disaster. Last year, the o-line ascended to adequate, same for wr corps. I also believe Daboll's play calling was sometimes suspect. Young qb, so we often played it close to the vest, which resulted in close games when suddenly late in the fourth the playbook opens up. (To be fair to Daboll, it's also true that Allen failed to read a lot of open receivers or ignored them trying to make a bigger play.) 4 -- If you're being honest, Allen is a "weak link" only in the sense that it's still unknown whether he'll continue to progress or not. OTOH, he's shown enough skills and development that he is in the conversation for darkhorse MVP. That's a stretch with our schedule, but folks who think he's an incipient franchise qb are not irrational for believing they've seen enough to plausibly hope for it.

60 years of social engineering through education and the media has dimmed the intellect appreciably. Saw a high school textbook from the early sixties in a Goodwill book sale a number of years back. The vocabulary was way beyond what folks normally imbibe and treat as typical for literacy today. How far we have drifted from MLK's desire for merit and character to become the true basis for discernment.

I think this is true, but it's also true he held the ball too long quite a bit. He needs to improve reading the field like any young qb. I'm confident he'll get there.

Some things don't reduce to a number. Folks know what he means, though those who think Josh won't earn a second contract will act like it is a meaningless emotive comment I guess.

Ice cream

Not enough, Pseudo-Jesus.

He's not. He's a Chief's fan who isn't satisfied with a Super Bowl and Mahomes. He wants to come here and troll folks who are optimistic about Allen.

Be sure to bring a big sign saying Pipe Dream so we'll recognize you if the camera pans your way.

I haven't specifically been paying attention to comments on the Jets' draft, but my sense is that most folks on this board think the new Jets' GM has done a pretty good job. So I'm not sure where you're getting the belief that their draft is strongly ridiculed. And I think you mistake natural enthusiasm for new toys for arrogant certitude regarding our own draft. Both teams had good drafts, I think, but no one will know for sure, obviously, for a number of years. My own guess is that Moss is going to have the most immediate impact. I also think most on this board believe Darnold is fairly good; a few prefer him to Allen. So, if you believe both are bad (though apparently Allen is abysmal) in the end it's a wash, because many here think both are good. (I am one of those. I just think you are way off on Allen, though I am not ready to proclaim him a lock franchise qb.) My surmise on the wr corps is that folks think DIggs is a genuine #1 which allows Brown and Beasley to properly slot in as the #2 and #3. It becomes a geometric rather than an arithmetically incremental addition. The rookies have a chance to fill out the bottom of the depth chart and offer some red zone potential. Seems to me wr drops were a problem, so we differ again. You did not mention coaching. I think the Gase factor is real. Fella just isn't good at head coach and I surmise that is a real edge for Buffalo. In general, however, I think we have a stronger roster. I agree with those who believe we are and should be the favorite to take the division. I have been a fan for nearly fifty years. Dennis Shaw was the qb when I first remember watching with any degree of intelligence. Frankly, this current roster is easily one of the best we've had in twenty-five years. Of course, that's not saying much perhaps and if you think the qb is trash, the overall quality is severely downgraded given the importance of the position.

Still think they should have signed a punter, but I guess they like the competition already on the roster.

Just relating that fans' particular take. I think Allen likely will be a franchise qb. I'm a UGA fan, so I like Fromm, but I don't think he's in the same talent category as Allen. He is bright and a natural leader.

Unfortunately, Twistoffate is a Bills fan. His only silver lining is that Fromm is supposedly the perfect qb for Daboll's system, so when Allen is exposed as awful qb, the season is not quite wrecked. Most of the Allen haters (er, skeptics) were pretty quiet when the NFL schedule seemed to indicate that Bills are viewed as exciting, up-and-coming team.