BillsFanForever19

There's just SO many in this class, it's hard to keep track of them all.

I'm against doubling down in Round 2. There's too many things we need to do and not enough money to do it in FA. We need to get another Starter in Round 2, maybe even in Round 3 too before we start looking at our 4th WR. I think the 2022 model of what Beane did with CB is more likely. He took Elam Round 1 and then took Benford in Round 6. I'd go a little higher with our double dip at WR. But I don't expect him to go again until Round 4. Maybe a trade up from Round 4 into the bottom of Round 3 or top of Round 4 with the amount of Day 3 picks we have. I'm also notoriously anti-Worthy. Worthy's too small of a body and has too much slot usage. I see him as more of a gadget player you have to put all over the field. We already have two guys in Shakir and Kincaid that I always want on the field in the Slot. And as Smith said, a body catcher. What I see Beane wanting for a True Outside WR2 (that will be our #1 one day), Worthy doesn't fit that bill or check enough boxes IMO. Wilson is really big. But that's it. As Smith said, the guy can't chew gum and tie his shoes at the same time. Someone will take him for his size, but I'm not impressed by him either. I like Polk and Rice. But I don't think they'll be there by the time we want to Double down. Maybe Rice. If Polk is there by the time our 3rd rolls around, you have to really consider it. But I doubt he will be.

Right now, he may very well be my favorite of the class outside of the 3 that will be long gone. I'm more and more confident with each passing day that our guy is one of either Brian Thomas Jr., Troy Franklin, Xavier Legette, or Keon Coleman.

Yeah, I'm really high on Legette. Just passes the eye test on everything i'm looking for. Height, elite speed, muscle, good hands. Knock on him are his age (just turned 23 a few weeks ago) and 1 year of production. I don't think the 1 year scares Beane off. He likes guys who look good and are still a work in progress. Reminds me of Rousseau and his 1 year of production. I see him as a guy that is going to sky rocket up the Draft boards once he has his Combine and Pro Day and will be in discussion for WR4 or WR5. I don't see him escaping Round 1 and could very well be our guy.

Was just about to post this. Some cliff notes: - Adonai Mitchell: "Folks not gonna like it, but I'm gonna tell you right now.... 90% Body Catcher. You can get mad at me for saying it, I'm just telling you what my eyes can see" - Xavier Legette: "My comp right now, wanna know who he reminds me of? DK Metcalf... slightly better" - Xavier Worthy: "He's a Body Catcher. After Thanksgiving dinner, he's 172 lbs. Wanna know who my comp is? Taller version of Tank Dell" - Ja'lynn Polk - "Here's what he is to me, he's a DOG. Dog mentality. He's a dog with damn rabies. He's got some dog in him that you just don't see. Foaming at the mouth" - Brian Thomas Jr. - "He's growing on me. I gotta watch some more film on him" - Malachi Corley: "Man, I'm gonna tell you right now, going on record TODAY, the kid from Western Kentucky - Malachi Corley IS my steal of the Draft. He's not only the best player on his team, he IS the team. He's got that dog in him too. He's going to have to learn to put the ball in both hands. He only puts it in one hand" - Troy Franklin: "Kinda reminds me of Jordan Addison. That's my comp" - Johnny Wilson: "6'7" 237 lbs - he is not a good multitasker. That boy can't chew gum and tie his shoes at the same time. You hear this about a lot of people, "he's a freak".... maybe at night, but it ain't on the Football field. I'm just telling ya" - Brendan Rice: "He is Isaiah Pacheco. He runs his routes harder than anyone known to mankind. I was watching his film and my daughter walked back and said "why's he running so hard?". He looks like he's gonna get a crick in his neck, that's how hard he runs" - Devontez Walker: "He needs to focus on catching the ball a little bit better. I think he should have went back to College. I think he came out too early and his Draft stock is dropping as we speak. I'm talking right now and his Draft stock is dropping. I was talking to some guys and they said he should have went back to College. He's going to be a Day 3 pick"

Back to Back WR's? McConkey and Wilson?

Anything is possible. It's physically possible someone offers us 7 1st Round Picks for Josh Allen. But the thing that has me riled up about Diggs is post after post after post around here, often from the same people, talking about it like it's extremely realistic - when it's simply not. I'm guilty of being annoyed by unrealistic talk and wanting to stay grounded in Offseason talk. In the shape we're in this season, financially and roster wise, it makes no sense to move him. If, as you say, there's no difference in saving between moving him later this offseason and moving him next offseason - what sense does it make to not have him here this year after we pay him 18.5m guaranteed vs. having him, moving on from him next year before more guarantees come in, and saving the same amount? Especially when we'll be replacing half of the WR core as is? Why would we choose to replace not 1, but both starters and create a scenario where Josh has just 1 WR on the roster (Shakir) that he's ever thrown a pass to - and hand over 18.5m in guarantees to do so?

I don't have to worry about that. Some of the many things that you've posted about that had no chance of happening and didn't happen made more sense than this does. What are you going to say when he's here and especially if he has a great year for us? After you've spent the entire offseason arguing why he shouldn't be here and salivating over the idea of moving him in post after post?

I'm in the same boat. I need to get better about it, honestly. It makes my blood boil and feel like i'm on crazy pills reading it. But ultimately, it doesn't matter. They can talk about it all they want. It's not going to happen. They're (oddly) just fantasizing and talking about something that only exists in their own heads.

Listen, I know the only thing people care about around here is the Cap figures. No other money matters. But if you think Brandon Beane is going to approach Pegula and say "hey, give me a check for 18.5m dollars so that I can give it to someone who won't be here and then I can spend 19m more of your money" - I've got a bridge to sell you. And there is a difference. We can pay 18.5m in cash this year and save 19m - or we can save that same amount next year before his salary becomes guaranteed.

So you're saying we'd pay 18.5m in cash and save 19 in cap on a 6/1?

I'll keep it 100 here with you. When it comes to intricacies of contracts, dead cap hits, cap hits - I'm not a capologist. I just go off what I'm told. Everyone has said next year is the earliest we should be looking at moving on from Diggs. That it's way better for us with his contract to do it then, then now. Posters will tweak numbers to a point that make their narrative work and swear it's the best to do it now. But I've heard no one besides people on this board say it makes any sense. Regardless, if we are to do it, we wouldn't wait until after his 18.5m salary becomes fully guaranteed.

3/17 is when Stefon Diggs 18.5m salary becomes fully guaranteed and it can't come soon enough for me.

Oh joy! This thread is back. He's not going anywhere this season. After 2024 - it's an option. It would cost us extra money and less in compensation to do it this year. We're not going to bite off our nose to spite our face when we can just wait a year. Especially in a year where we have to replace upwards of half of our WR core already and are so far in the red. We're approximately 54m over this year. Next year, we're 26.6m under the cap. We'll Draft a guy this year in Round 1. He'll take some coverage and pressure away from Diggs. Which will allow him to play more like himself and not get as burned to the wick as quickly. We'll probably double dip in the later rounds to provide insurance ala Elam and Benford in 2022. Let those guys get a year of experience under them and groom them under an all time great. Then, if those guys take off immediately, we can move Diggs' contract if we feel we no longer need him. It will cost us less, the opposing team won't have as much to take on which will yield us more in a trade, and we'll be in a better shape capwise, and hopefully roster wise, that it won't hurt us nearly as much.

It IS a different situation entirely. Tyreek Hill was on the last year of his deal and the Chiefs and he couldn't come to an agreement on an extension and he was going to leave at the end of the year. He's not going anywhere this season. Next season, maybe. We're not going to take less in compensation and cost ourselves more cap to move him this year when we're at our tightest. Especially not when we have to replace upwards of half of our WR core as is. The "when there's smoke there's fire" you keep clinging to for some odd reason was in reference to everyone ELSE talking about it and him wondering if maybe Beane's thinking about it. Not that he's pushing for it. And trust me, Beane's not thinking about it. And that completely ignores him saying he doesn't want to go anywhere and hopes he retires here. At most, Diggs wanted to get people talking about him in the Offseason. Something he does quite often. We don't want to move him. He doesn't want to go. And I said team's fanbases. Not teams. Teams aren't going to take on that contract and give us remotely what you think they would . Here's an interview he did with Yahoo! Sports that I found interesting. Namely in that he discusses why he "fell off" a bit down the stretch. The main reason I share this is because this guy has a relationship with him and talks to him every year. In his appearance on OBL, he discussed how this year he seemed to be in a much better place than he was last year. Tasker commented that he seems ready to roll it back this year: This narrative that he wants out or that he'll possibly be moved is COMPLETELY fan made or from click bait media. The only people that talk about it like it's a thing are fans that don't like him personally and want to MAKE it a thing, some media outlets that know he's a Superstar that will get them attention, and your trade posts bc you're obsessed with this years College crop. Ignoring everything else that's been said and his overall demeanor and focusing on a line here or two out of context. No "remains to be seen". He's going nowhere. I agree to an extent. If we had saved some money and not signed Leonard Floyd instead, we could have made Hopkins happen last year. That's why I propose we sit on some money and we wait this year. Getting someone like Mike Evans is impossible. We won't have the money to throw that kind of deal around this year, regardless of how you structure it. But if we wait, a decent vet WR will either end up without a chair (possibly for overplaying their hand) at the end of FA or will be released post-Draft when no one would trade for them, like Hopkins was last year. This will make them have to accept less as everyone has spent their money and filled their spots. We can't afford an Evans type early. But if we're patient, who knows, maybe someone like Hopkins does become available again and we can afford him this time.

You like to act as if our cupboard is completely bare. We already DO have some quality dynamic WR's. We do need a true starter to replace to Gabe Davis. Which will be MASSIVE as, between injury and a recurrence of his bad hands, it made him a complete non-factor since before the mid-season point. Which is a MAJOR contributor as to why Diggs fell off a bit down the stretch. We had LITERALLY nothing on the other X position taking coverage away from him. Teams could afford to roll even more coverage over to him than they usually do without an ounce of worry. In Diggs is a TRUE Top NFL #1. A guy who even after falling off due to the disappearance of Gabe Davis and WR2 and a change in Coordinator and philosophy that had game planning focused on going to the uncovered guy at all times - still was #7 in the NFL in Receptions and a first selection Pro Bowler. He's been an All Pro for 2 of his 4 seasons here. A Pro Bowler in all 4 seasons. A guy who halfway through the season was statistically Top 5. It's insane to think because of one drop and less than a half of season of a drop off has gone from Elite Top 5 to completely toast. With someone else added, I have no doubt he'll be the same great player he's always been this season. And no matter how hard you (confusingly) want to make it seem as if he doesn't want to be here, there's a chance Beane will trade him, or that he's done - none of that is true. He's not going anywhere. And you shouldn't want him to go. While you're trying to move him out, every fanbase in the league that needs a WR is stupidly salivating at the idea of adding him, even though it'll never happen. Khalil Shakir is entering Year 3 and has gotten better with each year. We didn't realize what we had in him fully until about 3/4 of the way through the year. This season he will be game planned to see even more usage and there's no saying he won't be even better than he was last season. Dalton Kincaid is a TE in name only. He's a Slot WR. And as a Rookie, he exceeded my expectations in Year 1. Much like Shakir, as good as he looked last year, there's room for growth and will surely also be utilized more. So while we do need to Draft a guy to replace Davis, the idea that we need a complete overhaul is simply not true. Situations like taking a guy in Round 1 and trading for a guy like Sutton AND doubling up in Round 2 is absolutely not going to happen. I see it like this as far as the most you can hope for (and even this might be too much for Beane to realistically do with what we have in house): 1.) We take a guy like Brian Thomas Jr., Troy Franklin, Keon Coleman, Adonai Mitchell, or Xavier Legette in Round 1. Thomas or Franklin will probably require a small trade up. 2.) After securing starters at either DT, DE, FS, or SS with the next two picks - we move our 4th and our extra 5th to slide into the bottom of Round 3 or the top of Round 4 to get another guy we like. 3.) Late into the Offseason, after sitting on some money, we get a vet that was a surprise post-Draft cut that couldn't be traded or a guy that is still sitting on the market bc he asked for too much. Someone who has no choice but to accept less. Making our WR core for next season: Stefon Diggs (Round 1 WR) Khalil Shakir (Unknown Vet late in FA) (Late Round 3 or Early Round 4 WR) Justin Shorter

Yeah, whatever it was. There's so much unrealism here. First of all, this years 1st and next year's 1st is nowhere near enough to go from 28 to 9. Then, somehow we've given up 28 to get 9, but still have 60 and have acquired 45 somehow.... like, what? Then Nabers falls to 9 - unlikely. And having given up next year's 1st and getting Nabers, we select ANOTHER WR at 45? Simply madness.

We don't have to replace Diggs this year. You take a mid rounder and hope it hits with a year of development in conjunction with your 1st. Also Justin Shorter, who will have a red shirt year and a 1st year of development. One of those guys could be his replacement without giving up 60. And if neither looks like a Starter in Year 2, then you Draft another guy or sign someone - as 2025's cap is actually 25m in the green ATM. You also don't want to count Diggs completely out at this point. What if having an ACTUAL WR opposite him takes away some coverage and he has his best season ever? Then we've spent a 2nd Round Pick on a guy for a role that doesn't even exist for another year at least. And with Worthy, again, I don't see a full time Outside guy. He's, at best, a jack of all trades gadget type that you have to be creative with. He's not replacing Diggs full time on the Outside IMO. And with Khalil Shakir and Dalton Kincaid (a TE as much as Von Miller's a LB), we have not one, but two top end Slots on the roster for the next 2 years at least. Get the most important thing we need this year. Which is a true Outside WR with our highest pick. But like it or not, we don't have a choice but to address the MASSIVE amount of holes we have Defensively with Draft picks. And we can't afford to wait until Round 3 at the earliest for multiple guys we'll need to start. You can't be in a situation where you're starting 4th Rounders. Even starting 3rd Rounders is a scary proposition. Then you can come back to WR in Round 4, or maybe even package a 4th and a 5th to get into the bottom of Round 3. But Round 1 AND Round 2 is out. Y'all can mock it to your hearts content and argue why it should be done. It's not going to happen. Especially when you consider it's likely we'll have to trade up at least a couple picks to secure the guy we want in Round 1.

Actually, it was a FOUR year deal - not two. We still have dead cap hits for Leonard Floyd in 2025 and 2026.

This is exactly what I've been talking about about with some of you posters swinging the pendulum way too far in the other direction. You cannot say "screw it - put anyone back there". A spot here or there, okay. We can cover up for it. But we need: Starting DE Starting DT Starting SS Starting FS #3 DT (Rotationally gets a LARGE snap count) And that's not counting needing 2 other DE's, 2 other DT's, a LB, and another Safety. The odds that we'll be able to fill all 5 of those major holes in FA with amount of cap space we have is slim. There are less than 1 Round worth of players who are considered a starter in every Draft. By putting out a 2nd and 3rd Round Pick and expecting them to start - you ARE allocating minimum assets to the Defense already. Guys available in Round 3 and especially after are there because they aren't Starters in Year 1. In allocating our 1st Round to our most important hole and then doubling back in later rounds to provide insurance, we ARE focusing and favoring that over Defense. You sound like you're saying "hey, 3-4 years ago we focused too much on Defense and it didn't get us over the top. So now we need to neglect there and focus on Offense completely". That glosses over the fact that what you're upset about us doing and not working - many of them are gone already or will be gone this offseason. You can't say "oh well, that didn't work, so now that those guys need to be replaced, replace them with anybody. It doesn't matter" Rather than replace them with 1st Round picks or high priced contracts, like I said, I am advocating waiting until Day 2 and getting bargain guys. I am advocating putting our highest asset and another pick into WR. But to say we allocate even less than 2nd Day picks and bargain FA's on the Defense is insane. And as for the notion that we spend all of our assets on Defense and completely neglect the Offense - even that logic is flawed. This year we'll spend our 1st on a Starting WR. Even if we spend our 2nd on a Starting player on Defense, that would put the score at 4-2 in favor of Offense over the past 3 Drafts in Rounds 1 and 2: 2024 - 1st Round WR, 2nd Round Defensive Player 2023 - Dalton Kincaid (TE Round 1), O'Cyrus Torrence (OG Round 2) 2022 - Kaiir Elam (CB Round 1), James Cook (RB Round 2) That's 2 1sts on Offense to 1 on Defense. 2 2nds on Offense to 1 on Defense. I'm sure you'll say "But Von Miler!". Yes, we spent a lot on Von Miller. We typically do 1 splash move every few years or so. What was our last splash move before Von Miller? Stefon Diggs on Offense. We saw what happened when we put up a mash unit against Mahomes. The idea that we can afford to put less out there than what we have already and it won't matter is really basic thinking. The reality is that if we say "screw the holes" on Defense and put out even less talent, he's going to light us up even more. So great, Josh has more help. But guess what? Now he'll have to put up even more points to stay with him and even more points still to get ahead of him. There's also this logic that KC wins just because they have Mahomes and Kelce and Defense doesn't matter in this league. This year we saw more than ever that they also field a very good Defense with All Pro players that keep him in the game to make those game winning drives. Without Jones, McDuffie, Snead, Gay, and Karlaftis - KC wouldn't have hoisted the Lombardi this year. If you think us loading up on Offense and then downgrading our Defense even more than we will be already is going to take us over the top of their complete team - I've got a bridge to sell you. We have to do both, which is what I'm advocating for. Sooooo..... TL;DR - You can allocate Round 1 into WR and pick up another on Day 3 AND field a competent Defense by allocating Day 2 Picks there at the same time. And with the state of the Roster and our cap situation, we really don't have a choice. The idea that Beane will say "screw the holes" and that needing Starters on Defense is "a joke" is the real joke here.

I think it's the other way around. On the boundary, he's going to get absolutely bullied by bigger CB's who are going to jam him and use their length at the line of scrimmage. There's a reason smaller WR's are used in the slot. They're lined up against usually smaller, weaker CB's and can work the middle of the field. Once they get 5 yards past, they can't be touched until the ball is in their hands anyways. And at that point, they're often being covered by LB's or S's - which are a mismatch for smaller, faster WR's. You mention John Brown as an example. But he was someone taken in Round 3 that had to prove it before he was trusted there. In Round 1, we need to know they can handle it - not just hope they can. To be fair, it wasn't just Worthy that led to me thumbs downing your last two posts. It was alleging we drafted Shorter to replace Gabe Davis in the WR2 spot for this season, when he was a redshirted in his Rookie year and never saw the field in the Regular Season, in your first post and saying you don't see Worthy as a slot at all, when he played almost half of his snaps last year in the slot, in your second post. I've got a number of problems with this. 1.) I don't see any way Worthy is on the board at 60. 2.) With the amount of holes we have on the Defense, we can't afford to not address any other position but WR until Round 3. 3.) We already have Khalil Shakir, Dalton Kincaid, and Deonte Harty (starting to think it's more likely he takes a pay cut than is outright cut) in the slot. So not only are you spending a premium asset on a guy who won't be getting very many reps behind Diggs, Franklin, Shakir, and Kincaid - but you'll have to take one of those guys off the field to put him on. I guess if he's the first guy up at the Slot and Boundary being mixed in when anyone needs a breather, he'll get more reps than say Sherfield or Harty got. But I still don't think that's worth a 2 with the amount of starters we have to replace and the small amount of cap space we'll have to fill those holes. I maintain that we don't go back to WR until Round 4. At best, we trade up from 4 to the bottom of the 3rd after using our 2nd and 3rd elsewhere. But no way do I see us going back to back in Round 1 and Round 2 at WR. If Diggs leaves next year, hopefully either the Round 4 player and/or Justin Shorter has developed and we're set already with Franklin and one of them for years to come. If not, you go and get another guy in next year's Draft or sign a guy when we're in much better shape cap wise and hopefully have nowhere near the amount of holes we have this season.

Did everyone in here think we got a Free Agent DE the caliber of Leonard Floyd on a 1 year deal at just a 1.16m salary, a 1.45m signing bonus, and a 2.6m cap hit? Every year people look at our cap situation and say there's things we can do to finesse it and make certain signings happen. And in the moment, they don't care what it takes. "Add void years" is a common refrain amongst posters who want to make a deal happen with someone. But then when we do and those void years come where we're paying for a player who isn't here, now they don't like it. This is why I'm always saying "it's not that simple" when people want to do these things. "Void years" don't void the numbers attached in those years. It's always great in the moment to fit a player in when we don't have room. But the bill always comes due and it's not fun when it does.

4 Rounder - 28. Troy Franklin WR Oregon 60. T'Vondre Sweat DT Texas 99. Javon Bullard S Georgia 129. Brendan Rice WR USC

You don't see him as an NFL slot at all? Because he took 40% of his snaps at the College level last season in the Slot. I'm sorry, but anyone who has that small of a frame and was only split out wide just 60% of the time in College can't be trusted to play exclusively on the boundary in the NFL - which is what we're in the market for. I think Shorter may develop into something, but he's a total Wild Card. There's no way they think he's ready to take over and start full time. And Worthy in the slot would remove Shakir and/or Kincaid from the field. Worthy may be fast, but he's at best a tweener that you have to use creatively. He simply does not check enough of the requisite boxes for the role we're looking for. Worthy fans drool over his highlight videos and ignore everything else. That's not how Beane operates. He'll take the guy who fits all the traits he's looking for and athletic specimens who are sometimes looked at more as work in progresses over simply looking at College highlight reels, every day of the week and twice on Sunday's. I'm practically positive it will be either Thomas Jr, Franklin, Coleman, Mitchell, or Legette. We can still get speed and talent without having to give up size and true X usage and experience at the College level. Even Franklin's a little small. But he still has 2.5-3" and 20 more lbs. on Worthy and was used in the slot only 17% of the time last season - compared to Worthy's 40%