BillsFanForever19

I'm not a capologist. A lot of it is pretty confusing to me. All I know for sure is that everyone who has analyzed the situation and has looked at any potential way to save money anywhere says it's a no go for this season and we'd have to wait until 2025 if we want to move on. But according to some on this board, everyone else is wrong but them, there's no reason not to do it, and it's impossible that Von could be better with a full offseason of rehab, prep, and a Training Camp - while acknowledging Tre White needed the same thing himself. I'm done trying to defend the experts. They can believe what they want to believe. It's not going to change the fact that he's not going anywhere, whether they like it or hate it.

.... why should we approach this offseason like he's not on the roster? Like, he literally is. I guarantee you, Brandon Beane isn't approaching this offseason like Stefon Diggs isn't on the roster. Don't fall for that nonsense thread. He was asked if he'll be here and said that's not up to him. That's it. Players around the league say the same thing all the time. He wasn't asked if he wanted to be here and said he didn't. Don't be like the ones who are like "well he didn't say this, ergo he really means this, ergo he doesn't want to be here, ergo we should trade him". Absolute nonsense. That thread is full of people who don't like him, are annoyed by a player who has any sort of personality quirks, want him gone, and want to come up with any reason to say he shouldn't be here. Every year, people put on their tinfoil hat and read more into what he says or does and gets all hot and bothered in the knickers. Then what happens? Diggs tells the media that people need to stop putting words in his mouth (like he did last season when people were doing the same BS) and he shows up to work. And let's say he did say he wanted a trade. So? You know who else really wanted a trade? Davante Adams. He was throwing sh-t fits on national TV. You were saying go get him. And? He didn't go anywhere. Why? Because if you have a Superstar under contract - you keep the Superstar. While you and others try to come up with scenarios for him to leave, every fanbase and media member of teams around the league are fantasizing about trading for him. Reading into nonsense and praying that they could have Diggs. You don't want to trade players like that. Not only do we not want to, or have to, it would cost us money to do so. You shouldn't be saying "if he does end up staying - fine". You should want him to stay. He's still a #1 WR, who had a down half of a season due to injuries and a change in game planning from a new OC. Surround him with an actual WR or 2 to take some coverage away from him and he'll be able to do more. I know he's been here for 4 years and isn't a shiny new toy. But he's still a Superstar in this league and Josh's #1 target since Year 2. TL;DR - Diggs hasn't said he doesn't want to be here, so don't make assumptions that he doesn't. He hates that. Don't operate like he won't be here, he's under contract and he will be. Be happy about that bc every fan of every other team wants him and for a reason. That's exactly what we'll be doing. Closer to Round 4 than Round 2 though. We have too many starting holes to fill.

Davis is gone. So will be Deonte Harty and Trent Sherfield. The WR room is getting an overhaul as is. But Diggs would be too much to move on from this season. His out is in 2025. It's not happening before then. And even in a down year, he still finished in the Top 10 (7th) in Receptions in the entire NFL. 13th in the NFL in Yards. Over the past 4 seasons, he's caught 445 balls from Josh and amassed 5,372 yards (and that's not even counting post season). Now because of the second half of one single season where he was playing through injuries, he has "zero" chemistry with Josh? That's insane. As is the idea that a guy who still commands double coverage, is still a Top 10 (or at least top 7-13) WR in the league, and maybe most importantly, costs more to be moved before next offseason - should be moved on from right now. You're going to get 2-3 new WR's. Way more likely than not, a 1st Round WR. Probably a FA, possibly like Hollywood Brown that you like. That's pretty exciting. I don't get why reality isn't exciting enough for you that you have to fantasize and post about the unfeasible.

I see you're "having fun" with your completely unrealistic ideas in multiple threads. I don't understand how it's fun for you to think up ideas that just aren't feasible and then see them not happen year after year. Don't you get disappointed with reality when it happens? Reality is plenty fun. A 1st Round WR is possible, if not extremely likely. It's exciting. But you always have to take things too far.

Stefon Diggs carries a 31m dead cap hit to move on from, he's not going anywhere: https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/news/buffalo-bills-stefon-diggs-trade-rumors-pro-bowl-games Cortland Sutton has a 17.29 cap hit. We're 52m over and you have us taking on a massive cap hit in moving on from Diggs on top of it AND taking on 17.29 for Sutton: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-broncos/courtland-sutton-25139/ Beyond that, you'd have us going into next season with only 1 WR that Josh has worked with and has chemistry with. 2 WR's that could be great, or complete busts. You were so close with your first post I saw you make regarding WR next season. But I guess we're back to nonsense that won't happen all offseason again. Not even a 1% chance.

Benford is growing with every season. He's the present and future of the Outside CB position on our team. The idea that you move him or Douglas to the bench for Tre at this point is insanity to me. As is giving up a 3rd for Douglas and letting him go in favor of Tre, who won't even be ready to start the season. It's a painful decision, but with Tre having an out in his contract this season, the personnel we have, and the situation we're in cap and roster wise - I don't know how you don't do an injury settlement and keep him around. The kind of restructure we can do would still be greatly overpaying for the role he'd have and the kind of question mark he is. With Douglas, Benford, Johnson, and Elam - we're good at the top 4 CB spots. But we need massive help elsewhere. And Tre's out in the contract is this offseason. Short of him taking like a paycut of like 75% (which I don't see him wanting to do), it doesn't make sense to me. He'll be here. He's still under contract. Him, Groot, Von, and Cline are all we have there right now.

Not even close? This is just factually wrong. We got the exact comparison you're making just last season. Tre White was at least at 80% last season. And that best game you talk about? It wasn't better than Douglas' best game. The games that weren't that game, he wasn't playing at the level that Douglas was for us prior to going down in Miami. He didn't fully return to form with any sort of consistency before the Achilles injury. And now he'll be coming back from that too. He's a complete question mark at this point. There's no saying he'll even be 80% of what he was. It's incorrect to say that he was better than Douglas last year and insane to say he definitively will be when he returns.

Everything I've read everywhere does not ascertain your statement that we'd save money cutting him this offseason. I've not found one article or post that says we'd be better off doing it this year. With how he performed last year and our cap situation this year, if it were really as simple as cut him and save 6.7m with no other ramifications, everyone would say do it. No one does. Just you and some other fans on the board. I'll go with the actual experts, who are trying to find any possible way to save anything and never list cutting Von. I don't think it's as simple as you and others are making it out to be. Or else it would be a no brainer. EDIT: Okay, i've found something. And again, it doesn't support your idea that it's a good call to cut him now, explaining why no one recommends doing it. Overthecap says Post 6/1 2024 - 17m in Dead Cap, 6.7 in cap savings. Post 6/1 2025 - 6.37m in Dead Cap, 17.5 in cap savings That's why you don't do it this year. You're paying 17m in Dead Cap for 6.7 in savings wherein next year, you're paying just 6.37 for 17.5 in savings. In the long run, you're essentially paying 11m to cut him now and create another hole.

Incorrect. Here's the very definition of Dead Cap: "Dead cap is money that is on your cap for a player who is not on your team. It is almost always money (usually signing bonus) that the team already paid the player but did not account for on the salary cap. It could also be guaranteed salary that the team still needs to pay for a player who they cut." That 17m Dead Cap is not sitting on the table now. It only comes into factor if we release him with a Post 6/1 designation. Here's the chart and who we're accounting for in Dead Money: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/# There's a reason that this contract was always looked at as a 6 year deal that's really only a 3 year deal. The out comes in 2025. Anything before that and you're cutting off your nose to spite your face. If it's really this simple, then why does every capologist say we're essentially stuck? That it would cost us way more to cut him than keep him for one more year?

There really is nasty ramifications. Releasing him this offseason would incur a 17.08 dead cap hit this season and a 15.417 dead cap hit next season as well. We'd take on over 32 in Dead Cap and save 6.7 on a post 6/1 cut. Meanwhile, in keeping him, we could take on just 15m dead cap next season and save 8.5 in 2025. So we'd be eating 32m in dead cap and saving 6.7 cutting him this year or eating 15m in dead cap and saving 8.5 next year. It's really a no brainer. Compounding the issue is the fact that, as opposed to CB, we're razor thin at DE. Cutting Miller would leave us with just Greg Rousseau, Kingsley Jonathan, and Kameron Cline under contract. And if you want to make it about cap space to spend on DE and damn the repercussions next year - there's actually a way to save 12m this year prior to 6/1. And it involves keeping him. It isn't advised, but neither is cutting him: You want to make it as simple as "cut Von now and save 6.7m". It's not. There's a reason why this is only something that's talked about as a possibility by fans. It's simply not going to happen. And if it's about getting money for his replacement this year and putting blinders on to repercussions - it still makes more sense to keep him.

Because as I said, there were a lot of factors there. I think bringing him back less than a year from surgery with no offseason physically working with the Defense was really rough. I think his body didn't respond as he expected and that mentally messed with him. Then all the other things that mentally had him off piled on top of it. Not the least of it going sober mid season. He did start to show signs of improvement later in the season, albeit minor ones. Again, I'm not saying for sure that he's going to be the same guy he was before the injury. But to say a less than 5% chance he shows something meaningful? I think that's a crazy claim. We're talking about one of the greatest of all time who has a metric sh-t ton going against him on and off the field last season. Who hears way more people than just you saying there's no chance he'll ever be close to the same guy again. I can't believe that won't motivate him. Can we rely on it and just make him starter? No. Definitely going to need to get another starting level DE in here as insurance like Floyd. But I disagree that it's impossible that we won't see a big improvement over last year and DEFINITELY put it at higher than 5%

I can understand not having faith. But less than 5%? That's wild to me. I actually think we are going to see an improvement. Will it be 2022 and before Von? That I'm not sure of. But we're talking about an all time great that is all but being written off by everyone. I think he's going to be INCREDIBLY motivated this offseason. I touched on reasons that I think he was the way he was last season in another post: I think with a full offseason to rehab his body, his mind, to be further away from the legal issues, with intense motivation to prove he's not who he was last season, and more time to acclimate to his new life of sobriety - we're almost assuredly going to see an improvement and a vast one from what we saw last season. So long as he doesn't relapse or get into further legal and domestic issues.

Read between the lines. He's saying "unless you hear me specifically say something - don't put words in my mouth". As people are doing now in this thread of that Pro Bowl interview. I do believe at times *in the past*, he has said and done some things that he knows the media will cover. Namely, when he was angling for a new contract. Tweets and stuff that can be read a million different ways. But never anything that a normal level headed person could say he was truly in the wrong or being controversial. Just little things to get people talking about him. He probably laughs at all the attention it gets and enjoys his name staying out there. And again, just because the media talks about it in the Offseason, when they're absolutely starved and ravenous to report on anything, doesn't mean it's important news. He's never said he's unhappy. He's never said there was a problem, outside of OTA's last season (which WAS something worth discussing at the time), and then he said they fixed it. He's not saying anything here worth discussing. His lack of saying exactly what you think he should say and implying it means more than it does is putting words in his mouth. Even more so than the embarrassing offseason media. In the past, he has played with the media. But this is not that and this is not something that deserved a thread and everyone getting up in arms about. Again, you're putting words in my mouth. I never said he purposely creates "controversies" or problems. Just that at times, like when he wanted a new contract - I think he says things that he knows will get coverage. But it's the media and tinfoil hat fans that then twist it into something else. That's who causes the problems. As he himself has said, "i'm not responsible for how other people feel". He's never said anything that the media and fans should quote him as saying he's unhappy or wants out. Everyone just twists his words. When there's truly a problem, as you posted from when he's in Minnesota, he'll say something or do something. Then it's fair to worry. But this doesn't fall under that umbrella or even of the umbrella of him toying with the media.

As I've said, the media reporting on things doesn't mean the content is worth reporting on. Especially this time of the year. Things that wouldn't even get typed up midseason will get the front page. Digging through Diggs' tweets and playing keyboard sleuth can get clicks and views. They know it. Diggs knows it. And in offseasons past, Diggs has used the media to keep his name on people's lips. Typing tweets that could be read one way to create "news" that isn't there. But this is just an honest question with an honest answer. You can choose to take it for what it is. Or you can put on a tinfoil hat and say "I think what he's really saying is this" or "in not saying this, he's really saying this". And to all of this, I'll just quote the man himself:

I don't think he said anything "controversial" here. He simply didn't say exactly what you wanted to hear. It was a perfectly standard statement that I've heard players say many times before. And in not saying exactly what you wanted to hear, you're reading between the lines. If you re-read the post that you're both using as a "gotcha", I never said that was what he was doing in this case specifically. On the contrary, I ended it by saying he's done things in the past worth discussing. But that this is nothing. Something I've alluded to this entire time. Do I know the Diggs camp intimately? No, I don't. But we're entering Year 5 of Diggs on this team. We've seen him play with the media and say and do things way more, enigmatically, if you will. And the result is the same. He's either flat out re-signed with the team and professed his desire to be here forever or suited up every game that year. I could play the same game with you. Do you know the Diggs camp intimately? Because this is the most yawn worthy of "news" attributed to him in the Offseason. Why are you so sure it means more than what he very clearly said? Why is this so different?

Absolutely not. Both things can be true. He likes to play with the media (which I did say in a previous post on here) and that what he said in this interview means absolutely nothing. They are not mutually exclusive. I do not agree with you that it's worth talking about. It's only spinning if you only look at things in terms of black and white without seeing shades of grey. As I said, him liking to play with the media doesn't equate to him being unhappy or wanting out. So there's nothing to see here, as I've said this whole time. And you're definitely putting words in my mouth by having me say "he said bad things" here. Definitely not the case.

Getting the media to talk about you and it being worth a story or being talked about here are two different things entirely. This time of the year, the media will talk about anything. Like I've said, this is nothing. It's not worth talking about. And now it's going to be referenced by anti-Diggs people all year as proof positive he doesn't want to be here.

If you're a big Diggs fan - you'd know the truth when it comes to him. He likes to be an enigma. He likes to play with the media. He knows what to say to make them run headlines and keep his name and his brand relevant during the Offseason. Last offseason, when he left OTA's - there was a reason to talk about him. Now? This? An honest answer about an honest situation that's beyond his control, that only the "ignorant" talk about.

You didn't draw the parallel? You literally typed it out. Like what? Whatever you're implying, what happened after he got upset? He played for the Buffalo Bills. And the result will be the same this season. Even the media, who should be the ones making stories out of nothing, reported this for what it is. Him referring to whether or not Beane will keep him. https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/stefon-diggs-cant-tell-what-future-holds-ill-be-ready-to-go-no-matter-what He said "it's out of my hands" and it's out of his hands. Less than a month and his salary becomes fully guaranteed. Less than a month until this ridiculous conversation comes to an end.

If you can't see the difference between those two statements.... I don't even know what to say. So much of all of you who say this is a big deal is based on what he didn't say. You know what else he didn't say and has said before? "I can't sit up here and say everything is okay because it's obviously not" Tell me when he says that or anything you are alluding to happening that he hasn't said - than there will be cause for bother.

Doesn't seem that way to me in the first few pages. And those that are, I'm sure if I go through their posts I'll find no biases, right? Of course the fans who dislike him and/or want him gone are agreeing with you. Like I've said, this statement in a vacuum is a giant nothing burger. Unless you've got an axe to grind and choose to make it bigger than it is to fit a narrative that argues he shouldn't be here. Or in your case, the narrative that this was worthy of a post and causing a controversy that really doesn't exist.

It absolutely is. Like I said, do you have any idea how many players say on a yearly basis "I just go to work and don't worry about things beyond my control"? The answer you want to hear is better served if the question was "do you WANT to be a Buffalo Bill next season?". That's not the question that was asked and the answer he gave does not imply he doesn't want to be here. Unless you put on a tinfoil hat. You're even putting words in Josh's mouth. We wouldn't know what he'd say if he were asked "will you be a Bill next season?" - because no one would have a reason to ever ask him that, like they do Diggs after that drop. I could easily see Josh saying "well that's not really up to me" as well. It's a STANDARD answer. All you're doing with this post is fanning the flames of people who want him gone. And it's a poor excuse of a reason to.

Why is he giving a standard football answer? Do you know how many players every year say "I don't worry about things beyond my control, I just go to work"? Which is EXACTLY what he said.

No one should be talking about it. He gave a standard, nothing, Belichick level football answer that's said by many players every single year. Only people who want to manufacture it into a big deal because they have an axe to grind or are simply bored are talking about it.

Because he doesn't make that call. Simple as that. He doesn't decide whether he's a Bill or not. Even if he said "I want out" - that's not up to him. Almost no one can definitively say they're safe from being cut or traded. He answered a question honestly. I'm sorry that he didn't answer it the way you wanted him to. But that doesn't mean the answer means anything different or more than what it very clearly is. Just a player saying "those decisions aren't up to me, i'm just going to keep going about things and working the way that I do and not worry about things beyond my control". That's it. And it's a very standard Football answer said by many players. Not some crazy, out there answer.