KingRex

For those of us who prefer the method Pitts used of first build your TEAM then draft a QB like Big Ben as your franchise QB, this Jets move is great! It heightens the chances a great position player falls to us at # 12 and we then continue to build our TEAM with our other 1st rounder, 2 nds, and 2 3rds. We could use another QB to supplement McCarron, Peterman, but I like the idea of getting Jackson as late as we thinlk we can!

This does highlight one of the Bills clear area's of past incompetent performance where our likely roster demands we improve if we wanna compete and win and there is no rational reason to assume or even hope there is a good chance we will improve. Specifically, the area of weak past performance is "how well do we train young QBs"? To date, McD and Beane deserve a huge amount of credit for the results "The Process" has provided. The great FACT is that they led a team that ended a 17 year playoff drought! Say whatever you want, but it is more than reasonable to give them the benefit of the doubt about any area they prove to simply be human as like it or not no mone should be demanded that they are perfect in everything they try to do. However, though they deserve the benefit of the doubt in terms of any challenges the TEAM faces, we should not hide from the fact that a major factual problem this TEAM and the current braintrust has is that we simply suck at training and evaluating QB talent. FACT 1 is that McD and the braintrust deserve a ton of credit for our TEAM ending the playoff drought! However, we simply suck at training QBs building an O that most effectively uses the talents of the QB we have and developing an O that succeeds. FACT 2 the Bills braintrust made a very good move in getting past our previous QB errors and instead successfully making the playoffs under the leadership of Tyrod. Say what you want, this is simply what happened. However, this happened despite the braintrust doing everything they could to try to not go with Tyrod. TT deserves a ton of credit for not only doing the things that he does well to produce enough Ws to make the playoffs (he deserves tons of credit for demonstrating extraordinary escapability behind a very troubled OL and he frustrated a lot of folks by never risking depending on our receivers to fight for (and simply living with the fact in some cases they would lose the fight) and sometimes lose the fight. As frustrating as it was that TT rarely seemed to just go for it, in the end he generally did not turn the ball over and really one of the primary determinants of who wins and who loses is who turned the ball over the least. McD deserves a ton of credit for leading a TEAM that ended the playoff driought. However, that being said McD simply screwed up in abandoning TT and instead relying on a 5th round drafted rookie Peterman to lead us to playoff glory. this was simply a football stupid move that relied on some unprecedented things to occur (I mean, oh please, even in the case of Tom Brady, this 6th round pick needed a year of sitting on the bench before he proved playoff ready. Even further, Bill Belicheat only went to Brady when he was forced to by a Jets tackle of Bledsoe that collapsed his lung. Abd even still despite Brady turning out to be one of the best QBs ever, he pub;licly gives Bledsoe tons of credit for acting as another coach to help Brady develop as a second year player (again like it or not in 2001-2 AFC championship game it was Bledsoe who played an essential role in coming of the bench with NE losing when Brady got hurt and he threw the game winning TD in their run to their first SB win. McD and the braintrust for some reason decided to start Peterman in a game against the Chargers. McD made the football stupid judgment that Peterman would produce results better than Brady. Right.. sure. The good news is that despite this stupidity TT rather than go into a funk like many prima donnas, simply kept his eye on the prize and led his TEAM to the playoffs. McD/Beane have been great but it is no surprise they got rid off TT as his play simply reminded bus of a stupid thing the braintrust did in the face of their great leadership of the TEAM. One of the primary challenges facing our Bills in 2018 is that this squad will need to train up either the rookie QB picked in the draft, Or the young AJ McCarron (who again like it or not does have the benefit of having been a pro for 3 years, but actually has a pretty limited resume as a productive winner, Or we hope that McD's poor handling of the development of Peterman has not simply ruined a talented young athlete. I'll give our braintrust the benefit of the doubt, but their on a pretty short leash for demonstrating mere competence at implementing a successful O and traing young QBs

The thing which impresses me a lot about Star is that for a number of seasons in a row he has escaped injury. and been a consistent stater. I think its a pretty reasonable guess that McD, Beane, and Fisher have a role and D scheme in mind that this 28 year old My guess is that he should be a very solid player for years in one of the primary things a D must do which is stop the run. I really like the fact we have brought KW back because he really demanded two players to stop him and his unrelenting motor. With Star seeming to also command a double team the center becomes a difficult place for opponents to run.

Fact is we have no system yet. McD simply blew it with his '17 system and who he hired to develop and implement it and his OC firing puts us at square 1. McD and the gang also totally mismanaged the player development of Peterman so the O is actually below square 1. Daboli is a reasonable hire but should not be mistaken for a slam dunk. The system is run when you can/pass when you have to and most of all be productive with the players you got.

OK Theory, but the reality remains, who do you think is the one?

We're trading up for a QB now. It looks like we're in for a long losing 2018 while we train up our "franchise" QB.

In the end, I guess I am "the future is now" kind of guy. In essence, my sense is that were the Bills to trade 2 or 3 potential first year starters (the two firsts and a second which seems to be the going rate for moving up to #3) to move up, we likely are going to have a very bad 2018. I don't see anyone credibly saying that even if Darnold or one of the Josh's has a good first year, that all of the QB franchise prospects are going to need to do some learning in order to produce some wins. This is particularly true if we are going to use later round picks to find the DTs/LBs/interior linemen you propose. My sense is that under McD/Beane the process demands building the TEAM for the future AND winning as much as we can now. This team (ironically under the leadership of Tyrod) made the playoffs in 2017. Its hard for me how these leaders are gonna trade away the reloading draft resources they have acquired to move up in the draft for some potential (but by no means likely like a Luck or Peyton Manning) franchise QB. I think Darnold or the Josh's may well eventually become quality players, but there is a difference between good and great. Which draftee do you think is so clearly great that he is worth McD giving up on building a winning attitude on this playoff qualifying team because we choose to invest in the future development of some alleges franchise QB rather than rebuild this older and significantly flawed Bills team?

The debate is not whether you get your franchise QB through the draft or FA, the debate is when do you use the draft to acquire your franchise QB. Pitts used a method of build your team FIRST and then use the draft to acquire a player like Big Ben as your franchise QB, or alternately you draft your franchise QB and build around him (I have been calling this the Andrew Luck model). Looking at the actual real world situation, I simply argue that though real world prospects like Darnold or one of the Josh's look like good players, I am quite doubtful any of these prospects are drop dead certain winners. If you or others want to make the case for one of these prospects I'm sure I and others would love to see it. to me not only are none of these prospects merely good but not great, but that even a great prospect would have a hard time leading this team which needs 1 (or 2) DTs, 2 LBs, an OL starter, and a couple of other players away from having a quality young team means that by far we need to take advantage of the 2 mid-round 1sts, and 2 seconds to build a winning TEAM. I see us making the same mistake we made for 17 playoffless years if we overreach at QB (drafting TC in the 2nd, giving guaranteed $ to the injury prone RJ, rushing JP along, etc ). Employing the Pitts model of shooting to get 2 or 3 first year starters from our 4 1st and 2nd round picks this year makes more sense to me than banking on a good but not great franchise QB prospect leading a teamn with several critical gaps. Why do folks think that we are so great?

To me it still seems like it would be a likely critical TEAM building error for this Bills squad to trade away much in terms of critical draft resources to get one allegedly franchise QB. The Bills appear to be doing a great job attracting FAs like Davis and Ivory to fill some of the basic gaps on this team. however, the model Pittsburgh pursued in building a great team first and then acquiring a rookie QB talent like Big Ben to win the SB makes a lot more football sense than following the Andrew Luck model of draft your franchise talent like Andrew Luck and build around him. I'm not arguing we don't need a franchise talent QB to win it all, I'm just arguing that the Pitts model of franchise QB acquisition makes more sense than the Luck model if you have to mortgage our NEED to fill the gap (gaps more accurately) at DT, LB (again gaps), #2 WR, OL, for the franchise QB to lead them to the promised land.

I also want to win an SB and agree that Tyrod is not the QB likely to cause that to happen. However, since I am afraid this TEAM will need to walk before they run, that this squad is too old and needs to replace too many key parts that trading away draft resources to move and grab some alleged franchise QB like Darnold or either Josh is the wromg road to take to win the SB as soon as we can. For me, I endorse following the Pittsburgh model of build a winning team first using our magnificent draft resource to get a startind DT (or 2), an LB, an OL guy )ort 2) and even a back-up RB. Keep Tyrod as part of a low turnover run first (and second) O. Try to train up Peterman, but if he isn't the guy draft a QB like Big Ben when they won the SN and go for it all in 2019. Tyrod or not, this TEAM is not ready to win it all.

I think trading away resources we need to use to acquire 4 early draftees to move up to get a hoped for franchise QB would be one of the quickest ways to tank this season. Remember, the Colts used a first day pick to get a franchise QB in the form of Peyton Manning. Great pick that worked out EVENTUALLY. however, even with a stud like Peyton this rookie FRANCHISE QB elevated their record from 3-13 up to.... 3-13. If the Bills draft a QB like Rosen or Darnold by trading away 20 and 21 (and more likely) it would likely result in us missing the playoffs again next year (and actually likel begin a new 17 year playoffless streak if we end up with a Ryan Leaf instead of a Peyton. Even worse, at least Indy did not have to mortgage the future in trading away picks to move up. We on the other hand would be throwing Rosen or Donald into a line-up that badly needs to use our draft picks to reload. Trading up to get an alleged FRANCHISE QB seems to be tanking to this football fan.

This team definitely needs to reload due to the age of our roster and to replace losses like Wood. The Bills need to follow the model Pitts used to get Big Ben of build a TEAM first and then get your franchise QB to make your team an SB winner. Trading up to give away our reload the TEAM option would be like putting a race car engine in a VW bug. To trade up for some alleged franchise QB in the draft likely starts this team on a new miss the playoffs streak.

Trading up makes sense mostly to try to satisfy whining fans, but makes little football sense. This TEAM desperately needs to reload in order to: A. Make one of the oldest rosters in the league (this is true even with the Bills scoring heavily in the last draft) younger( This is a huge need not only simply due to age, but older players cause larger cap hits B. Fill a # of holes left by injuries such as LCenter and older players like4 Shady being unlikely to last forever. If the Bills lose their 2 first rounders and one or both of their second rounders to trade up, they not only risk that their pick will be more Ryan Leaf than Peyton Manning, but even if he is as good as Peyton, the simple fact was that this talented rookie elevated his Colts from 3-13 w/o him to 3-13 w/ him his rookie year. Drafting a talented rookie while not reloading this team would be like putting a Formula 1 engine into a VW bug. And that's if we're lucky and he turns out not to be Andrew Luck equivalent. If anything the Bills should trade down.

It makes far more sense to this football fan for the Bills to follow the Pitts model they used to build a team and then go after a QB (who turned out to be Big Ben to win an SB. Look, we have one of the oldest rosters in the NFL and now having to find a stud center, it seems even more obvious to use the 2- 1st rounders and 2 nd rounders to rebuild this TEAM rather than invest all resources to put a formula 1 engine in our VW bug team. Trading up for the next Andrew Luck (or worse the next Ryan Leaf) would be a disaster for this team.

No they cannot expect to get a franchise QB with either of the two late mid round 1sts. However, that's 'a great thing because what this TEAM needs is to use their 2-1sts and 2- 2nds to rebuild the oldest team in the league. Giving away resources to obtain the next Andrew Luck (or Ryan Leaf would likely prove fatal to building a TEAM to go deep in the playoffs,

This team is several quality starters away from going deep in the playoffs (this includes starting C, backup RB, #2 WR, 2 DTs, an LB, the franchise QB, A starting QB would be great, but without a decision to rebuild across the board getting him would be like putting a Formula 1 engine into a VW bug. Particularly without a rebuild of the OL we might as wsell keep Tyrod as our young QB will be running for his life,

Nope. The Bills need to reload at several positions in order to really have a team capable of going deep in the playoffs. The two firsts and 2 seconds can go along way toward building a TEAM capable of following getting the players they need in the trenches so they can pursue a franchise QB using the model of the Pits team winning the SB with a rookie QB. Trading away valuable resources for a QB will kill this TEAM

I think Tyrod will do quite well in the FA market if the Bills do not want to pay him his contractual bonus: 1. He led his team to a playoff berth! This is simply a fact. As a Bills fan, I feel grateful and happy with TT's skillset and gamer attitude which made him a good teammate and I think proved to be critical for this team to luck into the playoffs with the miraculous help of Andy Dalton and the Bengals! However, though I think TT had a skillset which was essential to this team sliding into the playoffs with help, his delightful low risk few INTs ability nis likely not what we need to go deep in the playoffs. I do not think he is the quality pocket passer the Bills O needs. This being understood, for the halfway decent football fan, the sweetspot is one which appreciates Tyrod for his ability to run and avoid turnovers, BUT ALSO sees that TT should not be counted on to be the capable pocket passer who can lead this team deep in the playoffs. I think the football intelligent Bills fan recognizes and sings TT's praise for leading us to the end of our playoffless drought, but ALSO recognizes TTs limitations for the future.

This football fan still has not forgiven him for his dirty hit on TWhite. One of the pleasures I took from this rare entertaining SB was that Gronk lost. I have taken to calling any dirty hit as "Gronking" a fellow athlete.

This thread is based on an incorrect comparison as to what motivates buying decisions for commercial buyers. The decision driver is NOT simply how do NFL TV ratings compare to last year's TV ratings. What is most relevant is how do TV ratings compare to what's #2 in TV ratings and how much is the cost for showing nmy commercial to eyeballs I want to reach. I do not care if the Oscar's are more highly rated than a particular NFL game. ff the NFL game remains a greater assemblage of folks who buy beer I'm buying NFL commercials rather than Oscar commercials. I want to pay less for reaching fewer eyeballs, but I still pay.

No one can blame NP if his self-confidence needs to be recultivated. Even if he somehow is bull-headed enuf he can get over 5 INT, he would be a real fool to have any confidence in McD and the braintrust for not only demanding the unprecedented 5th rounder to lead the team to the playoffs, but by announcing the switch early in the week they maximized the time and focus of the Chargers to kill him. Add to that NP has another massive challenge of working to restore the confidence of his teammates (which may take a couple of years of consistent production from NP before his leadership is unquestioned by his teammates. Job #1 for McD/Daboli is probably improving their ability to train young players unless they get an FA vet QB.

The Bills braintrust not only took the totally unprecedented move of throwing a 5th round selected rookie to the wolves, but even did this stupidly by announcing this early the week before the game so the Chargers players and DC could gameplan , practice and visualize fooling and intimidating a 5th round selected rookie. I think any rationale person has to at least accept the likelihood they may have ruined NP as a player or at the very least made his teammates have no confidence in his ability to produce. I like our choice of DaBoli at OC due to his past success at winning games, but I have seen no evidence that Daboli offers much in terms of improving our horrible young QB development chops. Trading needed resources to rebuild one of the oldest rosters in the NFL for a draftee who we have to totally remake our training ability looks like simply a bad idea. We need most likely a bridge QB while we rebuild this team with a younger roster or a vet who can at least survive while we rebuild the OL.

The problem with a lot of these plans that involve drafting a it is to be hoped franchise QB is that McD and the Bills have shown zero ability to train and properly develop a young QB. In fact, with their total mishandling of the development of Peterman, it appears more likely they have ruined this impressive athlete into a footnote in the NFL. For any young QB, confidence is a key element. This first means self-confidence that a player can dominate and control a game and an ability to not be controlled by an opponent. By throwing NP to the wolves in the 5 INT in a half game McD and the Bills braintrust will be lucky not to have ruined NP's self-confidence. Even worse, if somehow NP is tough enuf (stupid enuf) to ignore being thrown nto the wolves (McD/DFenison not only mismanaged the game against the Chargers and took the foolish unprecedented step of expecting a concensus 5th round drafted rookie to lead a flawed team to the playoffs), but they created a scene where NPs Bill teammatres reasonably have zero confidence in NP being productive. Probably one of the most silly bad football moves would be to ignore improving the team up to adequacy by trading away prime resources to move into the top 5 picks and then somehow develop this rookie QB with a ton of holes (starting with a hole at C with the loss of Wood). Trading up is just a bad idea.

The priority for building a winning team is not to spend all resources to put an important Band-Aid of a franchise QB but instead to build adequately in both trenches and also acquire develop gamebreakers for this franchise QB to exploit and make better players. Particularly with an inadequate OL (or poorly trained and utilized OL) lost Wood, we need to at least build an adequate base BEFORE spending a bunch of resources to draft, sign, or trade for a franchise QB who basically will be running for his life with an inadequate O around him. I think our "process" should follow the Big Ben Pittsburgh model rather than the Indy Andrew Luck model of building a winner.

A half billion in lost revenue means that the networks ONLY make a billion $ in profits rather than $1.5 billion. I'm sorry, its hard for me to feel sorry for someone who ONLY makes a billion $ instead o 1.5 billion (or whatever the actual s are- maybe they ONLY make $3 billion rather than $3.5). Also, if th reason for decline in the 1pm EST Sunday game is due to the oversaturation of Sunday might, Thursday night and other special games, how does the increase in viewers for these "new" games balance against the ratings decline on Sunday. I'd love to have problems such as this.