KingRex

A franchise QB is essential to winning the SB, but is simply no guarantee of winning it all. In fact, having a solid team fir the franchise QB to lead and make his teammates better is also essential Particularly with the unexpected loss of Wood and probably Incognito makes it even more likely that at best the franchise QB at best makes oue bad team adequate. In terms of smart football, The PROCESS likely demands we use the plethora of draft resources assembled by Beane be used to fill holes fill huge holes (OL, WR. back-up RB, etc.) and make one of the oldest rosters in the NFL older. It makes better football sense to follow the model Pitts used to build the team first and then acquire a Big Ben or an FA like Peyton to win the SB rather than take the crap shoot of trading resources to get an alleged franchise QB who likely gets killed behind our French cheese OL.

Yes, the Bills need a Franchise QB to win the SB. Everyone agrees with that. The question is when do you acquire that F-QB? I think that the football intelligent option is to take one of three options next year. In general I think of this as the Steelers model where they first focused on building a TEAM and then acquired Big Ben as their F-QB to win an SB and make them a contender for years. Option 1. Use the huge draft Beane accumulated to rebuild our playoff qualifying team. If anything given the injury holes created at C and G, the Bills best bet is actually to trade down and try to add a couple of 2nds. We make an unlikely attempt to find our F-QB from a 3 way competition between Peterman, McCarron and a draft pick (Rudolph dropping to the 2nd round is my hope) Even w/o the F-QB the reinforced D keeps us in games Option 2- We get out of cap hell and next year our reinforced team bids for next year;s version of Cousins this year or Peyton Manning a few tears ago. Option 3- Target a rookie like a Big Ben and trade up to get him. These are far better options than trading away our drfat resources to move up to get Darnold or one of the Josh's and see him get hurt behind our swiss cheese OL and through to our weak at best WRs.

This would actually be a great outcome for the Bills if both Rudolph and Jackson went in the v1st as this means a brun on QBs that allows some high quality players like Chubb to slip down the Board. Particularly if the talk of Incognito retiring are true, giving away our 1sts to move up to #2 means that Darnold or one of the Josh's we get is not only playing with a team with leavings at LB, no highly rated back-up for the great player but over 30 Shady and a couple of players short at WR, but this rookie is protected by huge holes at C and G. The smart football move here is to follow bthe method Pitts used when they built the team first and then acquired Big Ben to take them to SB glory. Trading up for the Giants #2 almost certaiinly leads to the start of the next 17 year drought.

I think the situation remains the same. On one hand we can value Rosen (or Darnold, or Bell, or likely Mayfield) so much that we are willing to trade our 2 1st rounders this year (AND likely the market dictates a high round choice next year) to move up to pick #2 this year. On the other hand, we might pass on taking one of the top 3 or 4 QBs, but by keeping our 3 rounds with 2 picks per round we use these picks to reinforce a team which has one of the oldest rosters in the NFL, that has some clear holes like the loss of their starting center, 2 starting LBs, and a great RB in Shady but no real plan B if this +30 great player is hurt. From my several decades of enjoying the NFL it not only is such a clear case that it makes far more football sense to spend the great draft resource Beane and the braintrust have assembled to concentrate on rebuilding the TEAM, by taking folks like Roquan Smith, Edmunds, Ragnow, or whoever they have as BPA with their 2 firsts. They likely will have the ability to get a QB prospect in the 2nd round like a Rudolph or Jackson (depending on who they judge as best). Even better, I would love to see the TEAM trade down taking advantage of the market the Jets have said by trading 3 seconds to move up. If we were able to trade 1 of our 1sts for 2- 2nds it would mean THE PROCESS calls for creating tremendous competition between as many as 7 early drafted players this year, having a QB competition between Peterman, McCarron, and a 2nd round pick this year, and following the model Pitts used to win an SB and compete every year by drafting their FRANCHISE QB, Big Ben after first building their TEAM. To me it makes far better football sense to trade down if you can or at least stand pat with 6 choices in the first three rounds!

The answer to this question is you keep a player if he delivers the goods and you have no replacement that is better. Preferably, your team actually is in a position to generally approach player decisions not from the standpoint of why should we keep a player, but instead WHICH of the many options for players do we choose to invest in! As far as TT, to me it all starts with the FACT he PROVED himself capable of being THE QB to end the 17 year playoff drought! Even better from the perspective of judging him as a QB, he QB'ed the team despite the somewhat bizarre lack of faith McD showed in him (yes it was reasonable to doubt that a non-pocket passer could lead the team to an SB berth, the football stupid judgment the Bills braintrust made was that an NFL concensus 5th round drafted rookie QB could lead the team to an SB- this would simply be unprecedented (even Tom Brady, arguably the best QB ever needed to sit for a year and by his own testimony needed tons of help from seasoned vets before he was ready to lead his team as QB, McD made what looks like a real football stupid judgment that somehow this NFL consensus 5th round rookie talent was going to achieve a level of performance exceeding things even Tom Brady did). TT on the other hand pretty clearly seems to have limitations in his ability to be the dropback passer needed to be capable of even getting a berth into the SB (much less win it). However, a team not only needs to walk before they run and quite frankly after 17 years of missing the playoffs, the Bills needed to simply crawl before we walked. Is TT capable of being the QB we need to go deep in the playoffs? Almost certainly not! However, the immediate mission last year was "merely" to break the 17 year playoff drought. As George Bush would say, Mission Accomplished with TT playing a prominent role. In fact, the Bills could not have accomplished making the playoffs without him (if you disagree then understand you are advocating that Nate Peterman could have led us to the playoffs if only McD had stuck with him and started him instead off TT after Nate's 5 INT game. This reality being acknowledged (which some alleged Bills fans for some reason refuse to do}, the question after profusely thanking TT for his 2017 -play is to ask the question whether he is the QB capable of leading us in our next mission (go deep in the 2018 playoffs). The answer is probably not. However, this leads directly to the question of what's the alternative and how much will it cost?

Who should Whaley have traded up for? remember also hindsight is 20/20.

The simple fact is that Tyrod QB'ed the Bill's team which broke the 17 year playoff drought. Even more amazing is the FACT he provided this leadership for his TEAM when the braintrust in charge did not believe in him and benched him in favor of a 5th round drafted rookie who proved to be not ready for primetime. This Bills fan is grateful to TT for not only producing producing the best results under a Bills QB since the days when we welched on our agreement with Doug Flutie, but he proved to be an adult and very good team leader in ignoring a surprisingly foolish piece of non-football decision-making by McD (I am confident he will learn from this mistake) and making the playoffs. One of the reasons I still have faith in McD is that he clearly realized that it was his OC that deserved a lot of the blame for our poor O showing this season and in the playoff loss. Beane also realized that TT had some value in this QB starved league and traded him for a valuable third when clearly some folks who lack football knowledge advocated cutting him or thought we'd be lucky to get a 6th round pick for him. As a fan who favors a TEAM approach to getting to the SB rather than Franchise QB psychosis I have no prob trading Tyrod for a 3rd and really hope we trade down for a couple more 2nd round picks (I do agree this is a QB league but I think it is more intelligent to build the TEAM this tear and in 2019 when our cap room expands a lot pick-up the best available FA QB and/or follow the Pittsburgh model where they built the TEAM first and then drafted Big Ben as their Franchise QB and won the SB). I wish Tyrod well, but most important if we have a 3 way QB battle between AJ, Peterman and someone like a Rudolph I like our chances in 2018!

I think the right answer is trade down, build a TEAM, and next tear follow the Pitts model where they built a TEAM and then traded up to acquire Big Ben as their franchise QB. The current Bills roster simply has too many holes and one of the oldest rosters in the NFL that we need to build the TEAM first and then acquire the Franchise QB. This strategy actually not inly give us a better chance of getting Ws this year but winning it all next year. Might Darnold, one of the Josh;s or even Mayfield be THE franchise QB? Maybe (but which one and quite frankly any of them might be Ryan Leaf. The Jets have set a market rate of 3 v2nds for an early pick. This Bills team will be so much weaker for the alleged Franchise QB if we have to trade both firsts to move up. On the other hand, if we trade down and get even 2 seconds we not only strengthen the TEAM even more but use one of the new 2nds to draft Rudolph or Jackson. I love the idea of a 2018 Bills team with an offensive and defensive trench reinforcement AND 2 early round LB prospects AND McCarron, Peterman and a Rudolph or Jackson competition at QB with the 6 first thrre round picks and a couple of extra 2nds from trading down.

Calm down. No shots have yet to be fired. How many times do you people have to get sucked into Lucy's trick? Watch what happens, not what's said. But in terms of what is communicated to the eventually voting public, what is said is what is happening. Likewise with the stick market where the S&P has lost 3% since the beginning of the year, what is said is what's happening. Sure you can choose to simply argue that nothing of import is happening, then you flat out disagree with Pres. Trump who in the recent past has cited the market improvement as a sign his policies are working or to day when the Pres cited the economic pain as small though significant because in the end it will work out. The simple fact is that voters are motivated by "mere" words and mere words are what is happening. One can try to argue that the elections do not happen until November, but this view ignores the fact one only gets one chance to make a first impression and the impression the media and the President have given the public has led to electoral results like the Alabama Senate race and the recent PA Congressional and even the WI Supreme race. Historically, the sitting Pres loses seats in a mid-term. O'Connell has stated the question is not whether the Nov. elections will be a hurricane but whether it will be Category 3, 4, or 5. I agree with you they are only words, but in negotiations and elections words matter a lot. Do you think we have good leadership in this Trade War? Nobody's not calling it a trade war Kudlow and Trump say its not a trade war .... yet.

Even worse, when you fight a war, you are weaker to the extent you are not united. 100% is great but unattainable. 60% is probably a minimum for successful war. Our political leadership has a maximum of 40% on a great day and actually given Democratic non-support for any Trump initiative and a doctrinal non-support for a trade war among most GOP members, we probably are at 20% at best in the current trade tit for tat. Quite frankly we are gonna lose any war we go into with such minimal support. President Trump correctly identified today that we are gonna have some pain from China's moves in this war where the leadership is expecting us to endure pain with a clear majority opposed to this war. If you're gonna lead and win then you have to unite your public. Does anyone think we have intelligent leadership in this trade war? Does he really think that this

P;eople are individuals and should be judged as such. To do otherwise is simply foolish

I agree actually that is possible that trading away a ton of draft resources that Beane and the braintrust dynamically accumulated to move up to #2 and take a QB MIGHT result in us getting a franchise QB that virtually immediately turns this team into an SB capable team MIGHT happen. I just really doubt it given the age of our roster and significant holes we need to fill along with a franchise QB. Its certainly defensible that a big failing of this team the past 17 playoffless years is linked to our lack of a franchise QB since Jimbo. However, I think this QB shortfall has mainly impacted us in that we have consistently rushed QBs into a starting role before the players were ready (it started with the Bills waiting at least one year too late to look seriously at acquiring a replacement for Jimbo and then having made this error we made bad football moves to try to get the next Jimbo like: A. Reached for TC by spnding an undeserved 2nd on him B. Moving TC into a starter role before happy-feet were trained out of him (if they ever could) C. Promised Flutie he would get a chance to win/lose the starting QB job on the field and then making this a lie by signing RJ to a guaranteed deal. When RJ proved to be injury prone and Flotie played as we expected, we then were forced to overpay for the QB position leading us to play rookies and youngsters on ST leading to the HomeRun Throw-up and a playoff drought. Etc, etc, etc,. I simply hope (and I agree argue with a bit to much dismay) that the Bills do not get so caught up in the endless and often futile search to try to acquire the next big QB thing at the cost of building a real TEAM.

Unfortunately, I think its more accurate to develop 2 lists of team needs. One assessment is of what the team needs in order to win. the #1 team need in order to win in my estimation is an MLB (or potentially an OLB if a run on QCs causes Bradley Chubb to fall where we might potentially trade up to get him. An MLB is a bigger need for us than an OLB, but we need both and if Chubb falls where we can trade up to get him he is better enough than the rest of the draft I would trade up to get him potentially. However, though I think based on too many decades watching the NFL, that a drop dead MLB (or OLB given our deep LB needs) helps us win more and win sooner than a good rookie QB, there is a clear media and a few noisy fans desire to draft the next "franchise" QB. My guesstimate is that none of the top three QBs in this draft (Darnold or the two Joshs' has more than a 25% chance of proving to be the actual franchise guy. Even worse, if we give away the current likely huge market cost of moving into the Giants pick, I think the chances this "franchise" QB survives with our unreinforced too old roster, trading up simply kills this teams chances to become a winning TEAM. The Bills have to decide whether the PROCESS demands that we ignore the media and whining fans call for this team to trade up and mortgage our future for the shiny penny of drafting a QB early or instead the PROCESS demands we use our many draft picks to build ths team into a TEAM. As far as QB goes, I'd take Rudolph or Jackson with our 2nd Pick in RD1 or even RD 2 if it looks like one of them may slip. Then run a competition with AJ, Peterman, and the draftee for our 2018 QB. However, primarily I would rely on the D to keep us in the game this year and if none of the 3 potential QBs does not do the job then use the model Pitts used to draft Big Ben to pot them over top into SB winning mode. I'm not sure who that will be yet as we will need to see how the college QBs will do next year. However, I am quite comfortable that the Bills will be in better shape to win an SB next year with a TEAM reinforced by this 2- 1s, 2-2nds, 2-3rds draft and a trade up next year to get the rookie QB we need. The Bills have a tough choice this year of dealing with the problem that the customer is always right, but this year what some loud and vocal customers want is likely different than what wins in this league.

My sense is that actually we had 17 years of drought because Ralph and the team foolishly focused on desperately trying to acquire the next Jim Kelly and franchise QB. This foolish focus ended up with the Bills repeatedly over-reaching for this QB (remember them giving the injury prone RJ a guaranteed contract, or foolishly spending a 3rd on whathis name from Oak who it turned out didn't even read the playbook, or starting a plethora of folks from Todd Collins/ Losman\Edwards before they were ready. I hope the braintrust is smart enuf to not trade away the farm to move up for an alleged franchise QB who odds are will not make it.

Without hesitation I say NO to the idea of trading our draft resources to take the risk of Darnold, the Joshes, or Mayfield being our franchise guy (if you endorse this trade the immediate next step for someone making the trade argument is to pick the target and defend it). In general, the primary thing I attribute our 17 year playoff less run to was our insane addiction to try to anoint the next Jim Kelly without regard to this fault leading to stupid football moves like giving the injury prone RJ a guaranteed deal, to drafting Todd Collins a round higher than his play deserved and then asking him to start before happy-feet were trained out of him, to expecting JP to do more than he could to rushing players like Edwards )and even Peterman) to start before they're ready. How should the Bills build an SB team? Follow the Pitts/Big Ben strategy! Build your TEAM first then draft the essential franchise QB as the NECESSARY addition to lead the TEAM to multiple SBs!

WHO is the franchise QB we should go after and what case do you make? In the end the key factor is who do you choose. I simply do not see any of the likely top QB picks (Darnold or the two Joshes ) as being drop dead sure talents or even being likely to be a franchise pick. No one makes the claim they are Peyton Manning or even Andrew Luck quality (and we all see the results of putting all your eggs in that one basket). Even worse you are endorsing not simply anointing one of these three, but do so at a significant cost of our amassed draft resources. Our roster is great for ending the playoff drought, but they are not only one of the older rosters, but as we saw with the surprising loss of Cook and the sudden problems of Zay Jones that we definitely need depth or we are sending this alleged franchise QB with little more than his jockstrap to protect him. The Big Ben model or even the Eli Manning model makes a lot more sense to me than the Ryan Leaf model.

Its important to understand and acknowledge also that a highly rated QB in the draft is perceived to be important not only because of good football reasoning but also be cause of hype selling a product. In fact, most of the highly drafted QBs are perceived as franchise QB not because they really are good, but experience has shown us mostly these players (JP, RJ, Ryan Leaf, etc are there because of the hype. To me this is why it makes far more sense to follow the Pitts model where Big Ben is drafted to be your franchise QB after you build your TEAM rather than draft your "franchise" QB first and build around him. Ask Nathan Peterman about the current Bills braintrust being smart enough to give players time!

I agree its nonsense to put that responsibility on one player. However, I guarantee that if the Bills were to trade up and draft Darnold, either Josh or Mayfield, it would be a matter of seconds (if that long) until the local media, and a loud segment of the fanbase looking for their vision of the next Jim Kelly would immediately put that pressure on that one player. Even if this player did not start, it would only take until the first loss under that QB that the call would start to play the draftee. In fact, even though the demand for immediate positive results would be totally logically counter to the fact that the team would have to give up the market rate of at least 3 #2s and this new "franchise" QB would be operating without us filling a # of holes because we traded our draft resources. Exactly the case you make is why it would likely be a football stupid move to trade up to draft a QB.

I think the decision that the braintrust is making is actually what picks continue THE PROCESS. That's actually why I really doubt the Bills will give up their much valued draft treasure trove to move up into the top 2 to get a QB. My sense is that THE PROCESS demands that the Bills continue to develop their winning ethic. I think this almost certainly demands that the TEAM NOT trade away their valuable draft resources to move up to #2 (or even #1) to get Darnold or Bell who almost certainly will need to take some snaps and make some learning mistakes even if they develop into good or great pros. I think the simple fact is that its really impossible to count on any one player (even the best QB and any of the 4 highest rated QB prospects this year) to guarantee or even be likely to continue THE PROCESS of building a winning ethic here. I think given the age of our roster and actually the high level of success which must be achieve in order to continue THE PROCESS after we ended the playoff drought, this draft DEMANDS that we use our 6 early draft picks to produce at least 4 first year starters. I just don'i see McD and Beane taking the risk (actually accepting the likelihood) that if we trade up to get one QB we are actually forcing this one player to lead us to 9 wins or that player will be responsible for us taking a step back.

Oops yep its early (late).

Right now, the conventional wisdom is that there is gonna be a massive run on QBs. I doubt it. The QB situation objectively (from my point of view) that there are 4 likely first round QB choices (Darnold. Bell, Rosen, Mayfield- I think in that order) but possibly 6 1st round choices if there is an actual run like the first three picks all being QBs. However, none of the top 2, (or likely top 3 and maybe even the top 4) have separated themselves like Andrew Luck did so any of these four choices are credible picks wherever they land in the first. My GUESS is: 1- Cleveland desperately needs a QB. However, they got burned badly with the psychodrama surrounding so many hopes and drama being laid on their last first round QB choice. They also have the # 4 and actually the likely #1 Darnold is not so far above Bell |or eventually Rosen or Mayfield) that they will still get one of the top 4 at #4 guaranteed and actually if they can trade down a position in exchange for extra 2s (or even an extra 1 in some cases) they can have their cake (lets say Barkley, Bell. and a high pick if trading works out well. 2. NYG- Barkley looks like the likely choice but quite frankly Eli will be lucky to survive this season. I would not be surprised to see a QB pick here. 3. Jets- QB need and likely takes one after giving up the farm to move up 4. Cleveland finally fills their QB need with whoever is left from the top 3 picks. 5-On a reactive crapshoot beyond anyone's rational ability to pick because of the reality of wildcards like trade. So what does this mean for the Bills? My guess is that McD and the braintrust are unlikely to believe in anyone to be willing to bet the farm on them. None (and I mean NONE of the top 4-6 QB are so certain to make the difference this year that odds are the Bills stand pat with their 6 picks the first three rounds. They atr likely to get 4 or more 1st year starters from the first 6 choices and this goes a long way to fulfilling the PROCESS as McD builds HIS team.

Actually, its probably wishful thinking that we'll never find out in that he was arrested abd charged with felony vandalism. This likely means that the blood work which undoubtedly was done in order to treat him will end up as part of the public record. In addition to whatever "facts" are revealed there are millions of dollars on the table for a 2nd round draft pick and though it will be difficult to to tell what is true the rumor wire at 1 Bills Dr. should hum quite a bit.

My guess is that McD has a realistic view of the situation in that he and his on field braintrust bring a lot to the table and it was no accident he has cultivated a winning attitude which brought this team to the playoffs!!! But, he simply sucks at young QB development and also has let his hope of winning overwhelm his football intelligence when he stupidly asked a 5th round drafted rookie to lead the team to the playoffs. My sense is this means two things: 1. I doubt he is drafting a QB with an expectation that player is going to contribute much to the 2018 Bills on the field 2. Rosen leading his college team to an 18-20 record is gonna count heavily in McDs mind as he works to build a winners' ethic here in Buffalo.

If the QBs go 1/2/3, this means most relevantly for the Bills, that the best LB, the best OL player, and even the best WR are still available. Given that quite frankly all the QBs are gonna need some work before they are ready to start, I'm loving a run on QBs as it makes it more likely we are gonna get 2 or 3 first day starters at other positions. Will we still need a franchise QB if we ever hope to win the SB? Yep! However, we also will NEED a quality TEAM for this franchise QB to nlead to an SB. I still prefer the Pitts method of building a TEAM that they then drafted BigBen to win the SB rather than draft your alleged franchise QB first and then rush Rosen, Darnold or whoever to btry to lead a very old Bills squad with significant holes to SB glory.

Even with the recent great FA moves, the Bills still have enough holes that must be filled to nkeep this a playoff worthy TEAM that the likely price for trading draft and potential current roster resources to move to the top of the draft board would be to not only condem the Bills to a horrible record in '18, likely make it essential to fill position player gaps bin '19, but even worse if the newly drafted "franchise" QB either gets hurt (behind a likely porous OL that needs a starting C, and another starter or usable swing guy) or turns out to be Ryan Leaf rather than Peyton Manning, trading up looks like it brings the price of killing this TEAM. I much prefer the Pitts method building the TEAM first and then draft a Big Ben to win it all than the very risky move of pay any price to move up now and hope drafting a franchise QB this year does not turn out to be either another of many dogs drafted early or an Andrew Luck injury victim.