Billsfan1972

Just helping people who don't have a subscription to The Athletic. However duly noted.

Found it..... And yes was upset then and still am. Things can however change. Joe Burrow, Josh Allen or Justin Herbert? Which rising young QB would NFL coaches and execs take now? Mike Sando Jan 27, 2022 Three young quarterbacks soared toward superstar status as the 2021 NFL regular season concluded. Joe Burrow and Josh Allen continued their ascent with memorable playoff performances. The third, Justin Herbert, ranked behind only Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady in Total QBR during a second consecutive impressive season to start his career. Burrow, Allen and Herbert are three of the most exciting young players in the game. Each has shown enough to enhance his profile since entering the league, but none has played well enough for long enough to cement himself with Rodgers, Brady and Patrick Mahomes as the elite of the elite. Allen has grown into the role, emerging as a consistently dynamic force over the past two seasons. Burrow and Herbert have played only two seasons — Burrow less than that, thanks to a knee injury suffered as a rookie. Which one of these three rising quarterbacks would you take if allowed to choose just one? I posed that question to two NFL offensive coaches, a former general manager, one long-time evaluator, one younger evaluator, former NFL executive of the year Randy Mueller and The Athletic NFL Draft analyst Dane Brugler. The seven voters ranked the quarterbacks 1-2-3. The results are below, along with explanations. There was almost a tie at the top. Burrow, Allen, Herbert? Ballots, please VOTER BURROW ALLEN HERBERT Former GM 1 2 3 Evaluator 1 1 2 3 Coach 1 1 3 2 Coach 2 1 3 2 Evaluator 2 2 1 3 Brugler 2 1 3 Mueller 3 1 2 Avg Vote 1.6 1.9 2.6 1. Joe Burrow, Cincinnati Bengals Average vote: 1.6 Burrow was the surest bet of the three coming out of college. Any team would have selected him first. Allen and Herbert required more projection, for different reasons, which is why they were not No. 1 overall choices. “You can make a case for all three, easily,” one of the offensive coaches said. “My gut is it’s Burrow because he’s the best decision maker and he’s the toughest mentally, the most resilient, the best leader.” The Bengals went from zero playoff victories for 31 years to the AFC Championship Game in Burrow’s first full season as a starter. “I would take any one of the three, obviously — they are all impressive,” the other offensive coach said. “I just think Burrow has that little extra something. Maybe it’s because he has (Ja’Marr) Chase, but he was that was at LSU. He’s so accurate. He sees things so well.” Burrow was first on both coaches’ ballots. He was first or second on six ballots overall. Mueller’s ballot was the exception. He had Allen first, Herbert second. “Coaches want the processor and the most coachable of them all,” Mueller said. “Burrow is the highest level of instincts. To me, that’s why all these offensive coaches were in love with Mac Jones. I just want the best guy, the most talent that we can manage going forward.” Burrow edged Allen for the top spot because the two offensive coaches dropped Allen to third on their ballots, the only No. 3 votes Allen received. If those coaches had ranked Allen second and Herbert third, then Burrow and Allen would have tied at the top. “What Burrow is doing with that offensive line is impressive,” said the long-time evaluator, who had Burrow atop his ballot. “His eyes are so quick. He sees it like Brady, Peyton, Brees at their primes. It is almost like Joe Montana, seeing it that quick and delivering it accurately.” What about all the sacks, including nine against Tennessee in the divisional round? Mueller thought Burrow would always take sacks at a higher rate for a variety of reasons, including the Bengals’ roster construction. “You can get on him if you like for getting sacked nine times,” the former GM said, “but he is kind of like the general who said, ‘You know what, we are going to have to take some casualties here, men — I’m going to take some sacks, but I’m not going to turn it over and I’m going to get you 20 points on the board and they are going to beat the heck out of me.’ ” 2. Josh Allen, Buffalo Bills Average vote: 1.9 Mueller, Brugler and the younger evaluator all had Allen atop their ballots. “I think he’s John Elway,” Mueller said. “He does not have the body of work Elway has, but the skill set is so similar that it’s crazy.” Allen is ahead of Elway in at least one respect. He has 31 rushing touchdowns in 61 career games. Elway had 33 rushing touchdowns in 234 games. “To be to be a top-tier guy in today’s NFL, you need a superhero trait, and I think Josh Allen has a few of them with the way he can impact the game in so many different ways,” Brugler said. “It doesn’t come without concerns. He takes so many hits. He is more expensive than the other two guys. But if I’m just talking about the player and the guy that I feel most confident is going to lead my team to a chance at a Super Bowl championship, I’m going with Josh Allen.” One of the evaluators loved the way the Bills developed Allen: addressing his accuracy issues early while using his running ability as a complement rather than turning Allen into primarily a runner early in his career. “They did not say, ‘We have to be run-first to fix your arm second,’ ” this evaluator said. “They have done the reverse. They deconstructed his motion and improved that, so they can lean into the running when they have to, but he has done enough from a pocket standpoint that he can stand there.” Mueller said he thought accuracy concerns regarding Allen were always overblown. “Without being anchored to this position, I’ve never been a believer that this guy had inaccuracy problems that couldn’t be fixed,” Mueller said. “I could explain those things when he came out, so I’ve always been a little bit aligned behind that theory of, he just needs training, comfort level, processing and learning, and he’ll be fine.” Some expressed concern about what might happen in Buffalo if offensive coordinator Brian Daboll leaves and the system changes. “You’re going to have more ups and downs with Allen once his contract affects the talent around him,” one of the offensive coaches said. 3. Justin Herbert, Los Angeles Chargers Average vote: 2.6 Recency bias could favor Burrow and Allen following their strong performances in the playoffs. Not for Mueller, however. He had Herbert second, ahead of Burrow. “The hard one for me is Herbert vs. Burrow,” Mueller said. “I think Herbert’s offense holds him back. If you put Herbert in Buffalo, he is not wired the same as Josh Allen, but he could do a lot of similar things. Those are the athletes and that is where I yielded at the end of the day.” Both offensive coaches had Herbert over Allen, but behind Burrow. One noted that Herbert succeeded the minute he walked into the league, on a team that had question marks on the offensive line and a defense that fell off. “I think you look at what Burrow does above the neck, I’d probably just go Burrow second and Herbert third, even though Herbert may be the best thrower of them all,” an evaluator who ranked Allen first said. As retirement approached for Ben Roethlisberger, Drew Brees, Philip Rivers and others, it wasn’t always certain if the league would develop quarterbacks talented enough to replace them. Burrow, Allen and Herbert are easing those concerns. “What I love about all three is just how they’ve overcome so much,” Brugler said. “Josh Allen did not grow up going to quarterback camps where playing the position a specific way is ingrained at a young age. He learned organically and had just a very different upbringing and journey. He’s still learning, growing and evolving and becoming better. Joe Burrow went to Ohio State, so he was a big recruit, but he had to go somewhere else and do it. Justin Herbert, small hometown guy in Eugene, a quiet guy by nature, coming out of his shell. “There’s not a wrong answer here. You can really make the case for any of these guys.”

I remember an article in The Athletic and the debate who's #2 (after Mahomes) in 2022 prior to the season I think with Burrow, Herbert & Allen and being so frustrated that Burrow & Herbert were elevated to that status. Then the Jackson fans were indignant too. With Allen people want to find fault with him. Burrow is faultless in the medias' eyes.

Well Diggs should be the one upset, he only had 7 targets yesterday vs. 9 for Chase.😉

How many other games do Bills' fans watch and wonder why they complete so many easy passes and how open some receivers are. Meanwhile here every play seems to be a slog (yes hyperbole but a lot of truth).

Sorry almost every chunk play this year has been due to Allen's skill set. TD to Davis was a rope. A lame duck and it is broken up. The 40 harder too to Davis vs LV again improvisation by Allen. The 20+ yarders to Diggs because Allen buys time. If the game plan is bad, yep Allen you can see gets frustrated (along with Diggs). Let him play.

Next week vs. Jax I was excited for a morning start and then realized it is Canadian Thanksgiving and driving to MIL's for noon (90 minute drive). Now will maybe watch the first half and tape the rest (or stay pre-occupied the morning), ignore all other Sunday games and watch when back around 6:00. Was so looking forward to it.

I have complained about this consistently. Luckily though they did not saddle the Bills with night games at home or other cold weather cities in late November/December, which they do too often. Nothing worse then having to look at weather reports in November-January particularly late day games.

#Free Allen.... It was efficient and worked vs. an inferior opponent in LV, but red zone was bad. Washington was just okay, but really 16-0 going into the 4th and the Bills had 4 TO's and Washington gave it up on downs at the 2 yard line..... Running game stats padded by the last TD drive when the game was over. We have at worst the second best QB in the league and still don't know what to do with him. As someone else said, Jalen Hurts and the Eagles short yard sneaks/push should be a no brainer with Josh. How hard is that play to draw up and execute?

Talk about all over the place. Btw never said we place too much on Allen, frankly he's the reason the Bills can win the SB and when the reins or muzzle is put on him I'm not happy. Not a fan of telegraphed run plays.

Yep LV played right into McD's hands. Obviously McD set them up with those three calls.

Now I see that those runs were designed to make LV think twice in the 4th quarter. e get it the Bills steamrolled them. The Bills were down 7-0 and came out with 3 uninspired plays to start the game and it was all a ruse.😉 Again I was playing checkers and McD was playing Chess

Fake News = Trump & his Supporters????🤣

When anyone watching on TV with the Bills down 7-0 could see (and no I'm not a coach) that it was going to be a run the first two plays and no disguising it, that to me were two wasted downs and a 3 & out.

When vs. LV they started the game with two straight runs up the middle for 1-2 yards, then you put Allen behind the 8-ball and again take a look at the first half vs. Washington and how many bad positions Allen was put in thanks to runs and bad plays on first & second down. This has been mentioned many times in this thread, but conveniently ignored by some. Vs. LV too it was close to being 10 or 14-0 until a TO by Jimmy G the second possession. McD can say what he wants, but the play calling states otherwise in many ways.

What I see and a gut feeling and what I've read and heard from McD and how he views offense. Oh and 100's of Threads here saying similar.

I said nothing about peaking too early. I want them to be great all year.... Frankly Allen and the offense haven't wowed me the first three weeks. As said seems they are trying to rein in Allen, but again very early.

Yes I get it a fan of McD..... Maybe the most polarizing Bill on TSW. I have openly admitted my concerns with him and while a very good coach, I have issues with some in game decisions (#never forget 13 seconds) and what I see is that he is not a coach who fully embraces the offense. Just look at this thread and as soon as I mention McD the negative reactions/emojis fly. As said in the OP I hope it is an over-reaction and Sunday definitely will be the test.

And that is my concern (bold red) and hope it is just short-term and based on two "laughers". However if this is McD again holding him back, which yes I think he does (and yes my opinion) this will be an issue and usually is when playing quality opponents.

And again, why do some people get so upset when one states what seems pretty obvious just watching the game? As I said in the OP 75 points is great, and yes only 3 games in but there are issues to be addressed as the offense just seems off. Sunday will be a much better litmus test.

Perfectly fine when the game is never in doubt (i.e. the last two weeks). Let's see what happens when the opposition is capable of 30+ points (i.e. Miami).

Again the Bills played inferior opposition. As said you probably feel that Reid should put a muzzle on Mahomes? Every time the Bills have a great game, especially on defense and the Offense really didn't need to score 35+, we hear the same about the genius McD controlling Josh and his "mistakes". Let's see what happens in tighter games.

Miami pretty much against Denver, Bills vs. NE ?

Not the first time. Has he ever drawn a PI penalty?

I just haven't seen Dorsey putting him in good positions to succeed. Look at all the second and longs vs. Washington. Nothing seems simple. When was the last simple screen that gained chunks yards, a quick slant or well designed red zone td pass?