TH3

Historically - we are...

Ok - Where are the metrics that the middle class is better off after all this? I base the success of a country on how its middle class is doing - and for that - they have stalled/slid backwards since Reagan. The fight against same sex marriage/deregulation/lowering taxes for the well off/fighting unfunded wars/citizens united/checking ID at the voting booth....has resulted in .....what? What metric is better?

Gosh just off the top of my head As long as your bashing liberalism - what has "conservatism" brought us since the Reagan revolution? Cut taxes for high earners (Bush and Reagan cuts reduced taxes on all income brackets) Has this made the middle class more well off? Lowered union power (yes and many feel not enough) - And this has accomplished what now that it is done? NAFTA (signed by Clinton, bipartisan approval) - Yes - but it is a "conservative" proposal Clinton - like his wife - does what is politically expedient - and again - is it an unqualified success? Fought SSM (I agree that repubs should approve this) - Well conservatism lost that war - and at the end of the day - did it hurt our country - and if so how? Change your life? Unfunded wars in the ME (funded the same we we funded the stimulus bill and many other trillions in spending, but iraq II was wrong) So you agree that it was wrong? Voter ID laws (yes we need voter ID laws to make sure the right of voters is being correctly carried out) OK - now that voter ID laws are in effect - this has done what exactly? Since there was really no voter fraud to begin with - all it really was - and is is an effort to disenfranchise voting - which - in my mind - not very conservative Gun rights (yup, a constitutional right) A win for conservatism - i am not a gun owner - used to be - so didn't make my life better Citizens United (both parties abuse campaign funds) Not saying that "both sides" use funds - Is our election process better and more democratic because of this ruling?...i give you the 2016 POTUS election Fought environmental conservatism (?) Conservatives fight it - do their wins in this arena make our country better - how? Lower regulation for the financial industry (Did you miss the warnings given to dems by repubs in the house regarding fannie/freddie/mortgage securities risk?) Debating the platform - deregulation is a conservative concept...did financial deregulation make our country better and improve our lives?

If you'd like to start a new thread, I'll gladly engage you. As long as this board bases liberalism - what has "conservatism" brought us since the Reagan revolution? Cut taxes for high earners Lowered union power NAFTA Fought SSM Unfunded wars in the ME Voter ID laws Gun rights Citizens United Fought environmental conservatism Lower regulation for the financial industry We essentially live in an era of conservative fiscal policies right now - low taxes, deregulation. free trade. Federal budget not balanced and the middle class going nowhere. Perhaps the posters who want to vote out dissent can point us to some conservative wins and policies that have resulted in benefits for the middle class or financial gains for the country,

Changed my mind - so someone who disagrees with the pack is a troll?

Call me whatever you want - never said I was a Republican - definitely not today's' brand - looking for answers....is the question I posed too tough to answer?

The mere OP says all you need to know about the posters here.... As long as your bashing liberalism - what has "conservatism" brought us since the Reagan revolution? Cut taxes for high earners Lowered union power NAFTA Fought SSM Unfunded wars in the ME Voter ID laws Gun rights Citizens United Fought environmental conservatism Lower regulation for the financial industry We essentially live in an era of conservative fiscal policies right now - low taxes, deregulation. free trade. Federal budget not balanced and the middle class going nowhere. Perhaps the posters who want to vote out dissent can point us to some conservative wins and policies that have resulted in benefits for the middle class or financial gains for the country,

I assume that you and most of the posters on this board are not ultra wealthy....amazing that you carry the water for the ultra wealthy at your own expense...

Spare me the Canadian anecdotes - look at metrics - the US does not stack up well at all in terms of price and preface compared to every other industrialized nation - and learn some economics: We pay 2X what other countries pay - that is a drag on our economy and a burden to our global competitiveness. That capital could be used elsewhere more efficiently - maybe you wife is a pharm rep - maybe - I don't know. If you are a business and you are paying 2x for a component that your competitors use also - you would be looking for better sourcing of that component. The provision of HC by employers is not a choice - it is law - dictated by the government. As I have explained elsewhere - including the cost of HC internally in the COGS as opposed to getting at the point of sale as a GST makes our home built products and services bear a cost that imported goods don't. Single payer plans have the advantage of actuarial theory - spreading the cost/risk that smaller and single buyers can't - and as well offering buying power.. I have both served public office and owned companies - if either could get rid of HC - they would in a second. Selling bunk - how?. The proof is out there - check EVERY OTHER INDUSTRIALZED NATION and show me who the US beats in price and performance ......

Canada, Germany, Japan, UK, France, ....we spend 18 percent of our GDP on HC - about $8000-$9000 per person per year...all these countries spend about 40-60 percent of that per person and cover everyone - from cradle to grave... Has nothing to do with defense spending - as concieveably - they actually have more to spend on HC... Look - take the blinders off - there are plenty of examples of better ways to do things...our system of paying for HC (burdening our private and public employers) and delivering (reimburse able insurance model) could not be worse... The method of doing better is examining "best practices" and adopting them... Not really - might be one component - but not a major one.....the sharing part is a little general - US companies use their patents abroad - but the sale prices are negotiated - which was a delete from the ACA....

So all the naysayers against a national HC system....how does your argument stack up against the demonstrable evidence of all the other national HC systems that exist already that are pretty much better than what we have in almost every metric? You are arguing with ghosts....

Actually we pretty much have the worst model out there....other than Bernie - I am not sure if anyone has put forward any sketch of a different plan....but abortion and gays and cross-dressers and border walls on the other hand.... THIS

Yes

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/04/04/the-conservative-go-for-broke-legal-strategy-suffers-a-blow/?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory Hopefully the trend of voter suppression is fading...

Easy Bro...I have been consistent...not backing anyone...I do think single payer HC is the way to go and is inevitable - and would be better than what we have now - on so many levels...so I do appreciate that Bernie is a proponent. I understand I make most of the GOP/TP /Libertarians uncomfortable by pointing out the hypocrisy of those platforms and viewpoints - doesn't make me a liberal. I know hard for you to understand that concept of examining the faults within...

Not a D voter or supporter...if you recall my position has been for years that the GOP has lost it and the result is gong to be Hillary

Wonder what number of male (probably conservative/probably christian) elected officials who have been arrested or caught for malfeasance in their offices/bathrooms is compared to people pretending to be trans to get into a bathroom to check out the plumbing of the other sex........

Well - I don't pretend to have insight because I have seen and witnessed the homeless - but have countered that by bringing a prejudged narrative to the conversation.... My one insight is this: I am involved in the development of several low income and veterans housing projects. One thing I did not know is that many of the homeless - prefer to be homeless....they prefer it to being cooped up in a home with a dorm of bunk beds. A vet center I consult on is located on a VA campus surrounded by woods. Beds are available on the campus but many of the vets prefer to stay in the woods. They scavenge construction scraps and sleep and reside in the woods. They come into the campus to eat and clean up I guess. They would prefer to have something they can call their own - as minimal as it is - rather than be institutionalized in a big room with bunk beds and cafeteria food. I never thought that was one aspect to homelessness. Maybe what society isn't doing a good job of is providing a sense of identity and esteem to help.

Well...you have them beat...after all you have both seen AND witnessed homeless people....

Apparently there is a sex tape...can't wait!

I know pointing out facts without the accompanying spin to fit a narrative can be confusing on this board..the poster was doubting the validity of NE's ability to put a real story out....they did with Gary Hart....if the NE story pans out...then we can say Cruz brought Cruz down..... Cruz...BTW has admitted to "sinning" in the past....

NE brought down Gary Hart Noone believed them them at the start of that either...

Countered by the hypocrisy of the GOP

​Americans Killed by Terror by President Reagan : 832 Clinton: 314 Bush: 3846 Obama: 17

The article is an inch deep and hardly considers history - Islam is hardly alone in an all out quest to kill infidels in the name of religion and as a way of life... Until 9/11/2001 the protestants and the Catholics in Ireland and GB killed each other off in their own version of a jihad..the still have walls separating themselves in Northern Ireland The Sunni and Shia live every day to see there brothers dead The Crusades.... It is simply Islams turn at bat - they are hardly the first and hardly unique Doesn't mean they don't have to be stopped...