thurst44

I get it, but 7-7 means that they are already on a good path and still have a ton of money and draft picks and won't be losing any significant free agents -- and if it's because of QB play, it would mean genuine hope we found the guy to build the offense around. 3-11 would mean we lost to a lot of bad teams, mostly at home. I'd rather have the hope and a mid-to-late draft pick (particularly given their seeming recent success with getting top ten talent later in the round) than a complete mess and a high pick in a meh draft.

My favorite example of this was the duo on the 1996 Jags (although still angry they beat us in the playoffs that year). Keenan McCardell and Jimmy Smith were both fifth year receivers with zero 1000 yard seasons between them (in fact, only McCardell had a season with more than 300 yards while Smith had barely made it to the field), who would go on to notch 14 1k yard seasons.

Ha, when I was writing for UB's paper, one of the editors had just come from the airport where she had shared a cab with a mother and son. At one point, she claimed, the woman had leaned over to her, conspiratorially, as if trying to set up her son. "He's famous...he's John Wayne Bobbitt." This would have been shortly after his "incident" making him the center of news, yet I had zero idea he had any connection to Buffalo.

After I came back to NYC after going to college at UB, I was struggling to find a job and wound up working a couple weeks of retail in the Greenwich Village Tower Records jazz dept. -- an area that covered a lot of other mini-sections, including soundtracks. This stringy-haired, 30-something guy comes in with a beautiful girl hanging off him -- I recognize him instantly. He coyly asks me "do you have this soundtrack...it's really sweet, the director wrote all this interstitial music, etc...Buffalo 66." Thankfully, the soundtrack had come in earlier in the day and since I loved the movie, I had displayed it prominently on an endcap. Halfway to the display, I decided to gently bust his ruse, but with a compliment: "I loved your film, Mr. Gallo." He then launched into the classic "did you know this guy and that girl?" but he is over a decade older than me, so I mostly did not; however, in contrast to his reputation, Vincent Gallo was an exceptionally nice person, at least for the span of that conversation.

Not really true in gauging whether it's a truly great defense as if we have the worst drive start point (as i believe we do), that impacts ppg. For example, if the opponent picks the ball off at the 20, the D pushes them back to the 27 in a 3 & out, we give up 3 pts, but that's not really the defense's fault. I'm not saying that ypg are more indicative.

We're tied for 8th in takeaways and 12th in sacks. I'd agree mostly...needs to improve on red zone and 3rd down conversions to be elite, but considering how many giveaways the offense has had its our own territory and the fact they've had to be on the field for so much of the game and how the defense has so rarely wilted in the second half, I'd argue they are above solid. And when you consider the youth of many of the key players and that the only significant players who are free agents are players who are nearing retirement but not really slipping and who if they don't retire would probably lean towards staying in Buffalo, the elite defense potential for next few years is quite high.

I suspect Hyde will make it a second year as he had been building a buzz before and hasn't significantly fallen off, White's reputation seems to be growing so would be surprised if he does not make it, Hughes and Poyer deserve it based on overall play but might not have rep yet. Kyle Williams might come closer than most think based on longtime rep. Edmunds is a very long shot. If I were to guess: Hyde/White outright and that might be it (although it could be one of those things where six or seven altogether make it due to others bowing out, although Bills overall early abysmal rep may outshadow D's building rep)

Also, the last two seasons we got potentially elite players at 16 and 27. I'd rather we end the season on a roll with Allen on the verge of hitting a groove. It would really bode well what with all the cap space and a decent slate of draft picks.

Yeah, I generally agree. Jags are nosediving and are clearly not the team everybody expected them to be. However, it would just figure if Marrone got it together in two weeks and beat us handily. Who knows, but I could definitely see a 5-1 finish if the offensive line continues to improve and QB play is adequate. I picked a Jags-Vikings Super Bowl, so it would feel crazy if we beat both those teams.

I'm not sure why everyone just presumes starting Allen means losing more games. Yes, he's raw, but he was 2-2 in complete games against teams that might ALL make the playoffs, and left another game with a good chance to win. We've been an erratic team and might remain erratic, or we're coming together after 9 games with not one easy game (even the Colts on the road is a tough draw) and could get on a roll against teams that have been as much of a mess as we have been.

So, isn't it valuable to DEFEND against this passing? Ah, two steps (or posts) ahead!

Drafting "needs" with a Top 5 pick would also not be ideal. You take BPA. And you do have to play two cornerbacks, so it's not even close to a waste. If you believe this guy will be a shutdown cornerback, you now potentially have pro bowl level players at all secondary positions and an elite middle linebacker. It's not my first choice, but the aversion to picking cornerbacks in a passing league here is over-the-top.

Well, we have a much better defense for one thing ;), Honestly, though, I don't think they are the same, but that doesn't mean I don't think we might be on the right track. We have a ton of cap space and draft picks, a promising young LT a young smart QB with strong leadership qualities and a high ceiling from whom I've seen things that give me hope but who may never pull it all together. I'd feel better if he were healthy and getting experience, but what can you do. I'm curious to see what they do this off-season.

While I'm definitely on the bleeding heart side of the spectrum, I'll never get this logic. I'm sorry to characterize it like this, but it feels kind of a self-loathing fan mentality. You want your player to fight to win with your team, and fortunes can change fast. As a captain, there's a good chance Shady has bought into this rebuild and could feel like this team will be a contender sooner than you do, believes he is slowing down a lot more gradually than you probably do, and wants to be a part of what McDermott is building. We don't know, he might have told them he didn't particularly want to leave a team that stood by him throughout adversity.

If Allen works out, then they really did not. They may have got two elite players in addition to their QB. I get the frustration as Mahomes is looking like an MVP and Watson has looked good at times, but as you said, Allen does remain to be seen, but his ceiling is very high, so to say they blew the '17 draft is premature.

You may have answered your own question.

Not necessarily. While I don't like this move as he isn't at the end of his career and feel like the defense should not really be touched right now while it's working, my guess is that they would look to sign a DE in free agency (as the word is that is one of the spots there will be good players), maybe re-sign Murphy if he does well, and evaluate Shaq.

I hate this idea. He could have 3 to 5 more years in him and is playing at the top of his game (and i do get the idea of trading him at high value at 30, but still don't like this). The defense is the functioning unit right now. I also hate the idea of improving a team that is 8-0 and has few real fans.

Check the Bears. Fortunes can change quickly in this league. We have a very good defense (especially considering how much they are on the field), and if Allen makes strides and we improve the line (which has actually played better over the last few weeks), we may not be in the Super Bowl, but could be a winning team.

Let's stop presuming we know what he wants. He's a team captain and might believe he still has a lot of yardage in him and want to help build this team. It's hard to know, and he strikes me as a rather unique guy, for better or for worse, and will not begin to pretend to know what's best for him.

I'm mixed. I hope they don't trade Shady for trading sake, but if they can milk someone for a Day 2 pick, plus, I'm in. Otherwise, with all the cap space we have, I'd rather have him for a possible better season next year and maybe ease in a new guy, than something like a 5th round pick. Meh

And last year they got a middle linebacker who is 20, already a leader, and by all accounts looks like a budding superstar, a DT who has played very well so far, a CB who exceeded expectations, and we'll see what happens with Neal and Teller. That's not even mentioning Allen whose QB story has yet to be written.

Trading Lorax makes zero sense to me. Bc he's 35, you'll get little for him, but bc he's Lorax he just might play til he's 40 and almost certainly would take a favorable contract to play here longer. I don't see any reason to touch this defense right now. It's a similar story for Shaq: what you get will likely be almost nothing. And I doubt Kyle cares to go anywhere. Fire sale-ing for the sake of Fire Sale-ing is dumb. If someone bowls them over for McCoy, sure...and Amari Cooper trade shows you might be able to almost recoup investment in Kelvin.

Taron Johnson has looked very good so far, and Siran Neal and Wyatt Teller still could by later this year or next. The picks can also be traded to move up.

They have almost 100 million in space for next year and 10 draft picks while having high-level young talent in Tra'Davious White, Tremaine Edmunds, Hyde, Poyer, arguably Milano and Dion Dawkins. Harrison Phillips and Taron Johnson already look promising. Shaq's been showing signs of reaching potential, and while Allen may not have been your choice (and he wasn't mine) and is polarizing, while unlikely, he does have the potential to be the best of the 4 -- none of whom are particularly thriving yet -- and fwiw is 2-2 in complete games with this supposedly awful team. Not sure you can definitively say his methods are wrong in Year 2, nor that he would be wrong to draft great athletes and name free agents. I'm not arguing Beane is great, but that I can see a "vision" in what he's trying to do and it's set up to work in the next couple years. Or it could collapse and his "vision" could be wrong. We'll see.