thurst44

A whopping 2. Karlos Williams had 5 TDs (at least) after his first five games. I'm always in awe of fans who during a 4-1 start will decide to fixate on finding something bad, especially when it's as specious an argument as judging a draft pick after five weeks. I was close watching the games the last few days, and Ford has definitely been a weak spot of the line (loving Morse, Feliciano, and Dawkins with my untrained eye), but then at this point in his career Jason Peters was still a failed tight end. It's kind of more likely that he would struggle in his first five games than succeed.

May I remind you, 12 catches...12!!! But let's press and ready that yellow jacket after a first 5 games that would pan out for a season to 34 catches and 854 yards (which would be a solid rookie season, but not world-changing, and those 11 games have not been played either)

He has 12 career catches! 12!!!!!

Ha, not to derail, but me too. I've heard good things. Pretty sure I went to final Calico's game last year. Enjoy the game. Also, i love the idea of Von Miller (if only Van were alive)

You're not wrong, in fact, just looked it up and in 1988 he was second in FG% and there's no other year I could find that he was higher than 13th. My memory would have been that he was great up to about 1989 and then sort of fell off a cliff. Honestly, I was not particularly surprised when he missed the kick in SBXXV, and thought the national blame for him felt lazy (and still does). I was livid that they did not go for one more play on the sideline, perhaps a quick pass to Thurman (who seemed he could do no wrong that day), b/c the kick was at the edge of his range and even at the time I kinda knew that. That being said, considering his place in NFL lore, why question anyone who wants to have a rosier opinion than maybe his performance deserved. Let him/us have that. Maybe the fan wearing his jersey b/c he was at the celebration in January 1991, one of the most beautiful representations of our fanbase ever. Whatever you think of the whole Bills Mafia thing, the original sentiment behind it (let's be the fans who support our players, not tear them down) was noble. I'll always have a fondness in my heart for him due to Buffalo '66, and that speech that Vincent Gallo gives after not shooting "Scott Wood" -- a speech I heard so many fans give in 1991. He's part of the lore, and if certain fans want to embrace him, to take back his rep, to remember him as better than he was, it's fine with me and it reflects well on the fanbase as a whole.

I know you mean well here, but it's a bit backhanded to call someone a "half way invested fan" for not buying a new jersey all the time. As it happens, I'm not really a jersey person, but in a fit of excitement after driving 10 hours to watch Andre Reed inducted, I decided to buy a jersey, and my choices were Manuel and Watkins. I had a well-paying full-time job then, and am working multiple part-time jobs recently. I still try to find money for Sunday ticket (a new jersey has been secondary) and in NYC between that and going to the Bills bar, I have only missed watching one game in the last 20 years (went to college in Buffalo and lived there most of the 1990s), and watched the replay of that as soon as I could -- that would be on NFL Game Pass in the Seattle airport, screaming loud enough I risked getting thrown out of the area. Tomorrow, I'm checking out the Public House, NYCBBB's new place, and I WILL wear that Watkins jersey proudly, because, to address another poster in this thread... We're not supporting the players, we're supporting the team. I don't wear the jersey to rep Watkins -- although I wish him no specific harm -- but to support the Bills, as I have been since a child in the 1980s (my family's from Buffalo) and stayed with them while I was in grade school in Manhattan and the team was going 2-14 for two years straight. Maybe some fans rocking obsolete jerseys are "half way invested" but not fair to presume that Sorry, yes I may be overreacting while sleepless in the middle of the night, but find this thread a bit obnoxious and judgmental.

Yes, like I'm pretty sure there's no way Barkley can win that Jets game from last year. It's in New York and we are 2-7, so we should probably go back and call that a loss, even though he tore apart their defense and we routed them..

Continuing to squander it?!?! We're 3-1, only loss -- and by less than a TD with the ball with a chance to win at the end -- to the crowned Best Team Ever [TM] who set all-time defensive records for the first three games. Let's get this into some sense of perspective here.

Oh, you're one of those. Yawn!

This is one of the most affably self-aware posts I've ever read on a sports website. Well done, sir. Hopefully you were as wrong on Oliver as it would appear I was wrong about Allen.

FWIW, I was watching the first game at the Seattle airport on my phone through GamePass at 2pm, so it seems pretty quick.

That should probably be the ultimate takeaway: if we're going by the standard yards metric, they were the worst defense in the league by a wide margin in the six quarters he was on the team and the best defense in the league by a decent margin in the 58 quarters after he quit. Thanks Vontae.

Also, let's keep in mind that in weeks 1 & 2, the Bills faced arguably two of the top three or four running backs in football, and that's skewing the results a bit.

Another catch by "First Down" Brown!

Bojo getting enough criticism here, we should give him credit for looking great today! That being said, hopefully that's the last we see him today :)!

He has a lifetime 4.9 ypc in the regular season. He's actually played better in the regular season than during pre-season. I agree that he probably would not get anything in trade, but he's been a solid #3 back when given the chance. Give him his due credit; to say he's not an NFL player is a bit unfair and hard to back up when he's played solidly when given the chance in the actual NFL.

Well, it's hard to sign someone who hasn't been cut ;). They'd have to do battle with the Phillipses

At one point, the Bills 2nd team DL owned the Panthers 1st team OL.

I'm gonna go with a bounceback season and he hits 1000+ for the season (i'll venture a guess of 1379), but that's the last gasp. With the crowded backfield, though, I could see him losing yards if Singletary comes on (or the line could be so improved that Singletary and the vets all ball out).

So, Chief Wiggum?

I'm talking about on the same level over a career. Mahomes had an amazing season in his first as a starter. We have yet to see what he does in the rest of his career nor what Allen will do in his second season and beyond. Let's say Allen has a great year but sub-Mahomes in 2018: 35 tds, 10 rushing, 4000 yards, 15 interceptions and Bills go 10-6 or 11-5, do the Bills still lose the 2017 draft? If they get an elite CB and the pick that allows them to get their franchise QB, that's a win in my book, even if Mahomes has a better career.

How is it "insane" to suggest that a quarterback considered by many experts as the best QB in a strong QB draft could develop into one of the top quarterbacks in the NFL. Yes, he's polarizing. I was not initially a fan, but to write off a QB after one season (where he went 5-5 in full games as the team went 1-5 when he did not play a full game) as "insane" seems a bit extreme. I was not saying he was at Mahomes' level last year, but Mahomes was a second-year QB. Let's actually see what he does this year before dismissing him. My point is IF Allen works out, then the Bills win b/c they got an elite QB AND CB, as opposed to just a QB. It's a gamble, but the book is far from closed.

When we traded our pick in order to get a 1st rounder in the next draft presumably (and as it turned out) to get one of the QBs from a rich draft, so judging it in isolation and acting like the 2017 draft had nothing to do with picking Allen is disingenuous at best. If we got a shutdown CB and Allen turns out to be on the same level as Mahomes, I'd call that a win and a better outcome than JUST getting Mahomes or Watson. One could also argue it set up getting another pick in the 1st round used to pick a potentially elite LB.

I'm roughly 5 miles away from where two other teams play, so, no. I did live in Buffalo for 8 years during college and beyond, before moving back to the NYC metro where I grew up.

As other poster said, 19, and there was a consensus among experts (almost) that he would go 19th or higher. Of course, as I go to back up that boast the first mock draft I find had him dropping out of the first round (SB Nation). The rest I checked: 8, 11, 8, 11, 19, 19, 11, 11, 17 (then i got bored). Ragland was also a first rounder in most of those, fwiw, and from what I've heard from Chiefs fans, we were not premature to trade him. Hindsight is 20/20. Lawson has played better than his stats and than most here give him credit, but certainly not played like you want from a first rounder. That said, I'm still hoping for a breakout year this year, and would not be shocked if that happened and he wound up back in 2020. However, also, that said, I don't think it's particularly likely (just in the realm of the possible).