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Lumping recently drafted, big producing WR's like Tee Higgins and Michael Pittman in the same sample with Gaffney/Britt/Nicks is just bad data, IMO. The latter 3 were drafted for a very different league. Taking a sample size for the WR position back further than players drafted after the 2010 rules changes is very likely to give you a skewed result. Those rules basically neutered the complex Pittsburgh and Rex Ryan type pass defense's that had stunted QB development in the NFL for the better part of 15 years prior. They only worked if you could kill shot the WR's and QB's. The QB position instantly became less cerebral and the WR position gradually became more about athleticism than toughness-over-the-middle than it was before. There was an initial huge boost in offensive production. More numbers meant more money for players in the passing game, even if most ships were being raised by the tide.. That triggered more interest in playing offensive skill positions at the youth level. The rise of 7 on 7 etc.. We really started seeing the change in quality of athlete late in the 2010's. Those kids who used to be steered into other sports started reaching the pro's because of the big money and long careers promised at QB and WR. Coleman is part of a different group. He probably would have stuck with hoops if he were in college in 2002. I don't think it's at all unreasonable for fans to expect him to be a 1,000 yard receiver this year. Rashee Rice was on pace for 1400 yards last year when he blew out his knee. Higgins and Pittman both put up 1,000 in their second years. Coleman is not a lesser athlete than any of those guys IMO and while 1,000 yards will put you in the top 25 in the NFL it isn't going to make you a household name. Ask Pittman.

His PFF grade was 92nd out of 98 WR's last year. His catch percentage has never been above 60% when targeted. The highest rated season a QB had when passing him the ball was 77.7 in his rookie season. That's not decent.

Take a look at the number Graham provided. If you look where Moore in R2 was drafted and the average production of a WR selected in that range, Moore is slightly above the average season. That’s why I’d give him the “decent” label. His production slightly exceeded his draft position - with some of the bad QB’s you referenced.

What has this to do with what I posted? The poster I replied to originally implied that Americans in the past were more "moral" because they viewed theft as wrong. I simply pointed out that Americans -- and many other cultures historically -- didn't consider "theft" bad when they or their society benefited from it. I'm not making any judgements about the morality of illegal streaming. A lot of things that are morally wrong are not illegal while other things that are not morally wrong are illegal.

In what world has Elijah Moore had a decent career in his four years in the NFL? He wouldn't have been available for $2.5m in his 5th year in the league if he wasn't disappointing so far. He's had bad QB's but Garrett Wilson's posted three 1,000 yard seasons to start his career with Wilson, Boyle, Sineman, Flacco, White, and Rodgers throwing him the ball. It's just wishful thinking to think he'll make any kind of jump this year.

I agree with most of what you said outside of him being a first round pick. He was a second round pick, first of the 2nd’s but 2nd nonetheless. People should tamper their expectations based on that alone.

Thanks. I think he’s going to improve on what we saw from him in the first half of last season. I think a lot of Keons success depends on Josh’s cohesion with Palmer, Moore and Kincaid on 20+ yard routes. If those guys can keep the defenses honest, I think Keon can really take advantage of physical mismatches and break some tackles to get some gainers. I love the run after catch ability on this team. If we can get some improvement in the 20+ yard area and the sideline, this offense is going to be scary. 2nd WRs are key. If he becomes a good WR2- in good with that. what numbers do you think he’ll hit?

This is his year to put up or literally shut up.

Looks like he’s worked his butt off this off season. We’ll see how he does.

At a loss for words after a fireworks show? When I took my 16 month old to DisneyLand last month, after the fireworks show (which they do nightly) he said “WOW!!” then ate another cookie.

That was true his rookie year 2023 which is why we saw Dodson out there for Milano and AJ Klein (not Williams) for Bernard in the playoffs. I think it's less true now. I don't think the Bills win 9 of 11 games which Williams started in place of Milano if he hadn't improved substantially in his play recognition and his understanding of his role in the play. But yes, he does need to take another step mentally which is why we saw Milano as soon as he could take the field.

His numbers will be better than your projection, not in small part due to the fact that he has Josh Allen.

I don’t think he will ever be more than a 2nd or 3rd WR. I hope I am wrong and he dominates.

Can’t wait to see Karoline’s response to the inevitable question about the one stat that Donnie finds most important - crowd size. Looks like the “No Kings” crowds far surpassed the headcount of the Army parade; even in many individual cities, including DC, so he can’t blame the less than ideal weather. When asked about the MAHA report just having flat out made up sources, she claimed it was “formatting errors.” Then when they removed the AI generated sources or the sources that literally contradicted the body of the report, she stood her ground that those were the same formatting errors she referenced. 😂 Let’s see how she spins this one, since we know Don will make sure that answer is scripted perfectly. Where did we find our last four press secretaries? A community college Toast Masters class? And I’ll save one of you the handful of keystrokes: ⬆️ Hoax 😂

Interesting. As far as fan expectations, fans will always expect first rounders to contribute strongly, starting their first year. As far as fan expectations being realistic - Beane has a draft pattern of trying to overcompensate for drafting late in the first by choosing high ceiling/low floor kind of guys. Rousseau was an example of that - a player who had a lot of raw physical talent and had shown potential, but had actually had played very little college ball. 15 games, that's it. Rousseau looks like a decent contributor now, but it took him a while to get there. Elam IMO was an example of that - a physically talented fast guy, who needed to take a big step in his actual coverage skills to play at the NFL level. And of course, the ultimate example was Josh Allen. Anyway I see Keon as another of Beane's "high ceiling, low floor" rifle shots. He's big, he can box out like a basketball player ('cuz he was one) - can't coach size and physicality - and he needed a lot of work on his route running and release moves.

That might be the craziest post in this thread. All feels, no common sense. You don't early-extend a RB AND pay him top of the market on the basis that you assume he will: -Go from a liability in pass pro to very good -Become a much better pass receiver -Prove he can handle a much greater workload like the other top paid RB's -And not fall completely off the cliff a couple years from now like Dalvin did in his 3.2 ypc age 28 season. Those are the reasons why you AT LEAST wait to pay him until he proves he can improve. Top of the market is still going to be there. What are you risking by making him prove it? And I mean Ty Johnson put up a greater ypc at 5.2 versus 4.9 and his ridiculous 15.8 yards per reception was almost twice that of Cook(8.1). And Johnson can actually pass block. That's why Allen could call him the best 3rd down back in the NFL and have a strong case. That being the case the only way the offense could "dramatically" improve on third downs is if Cook is better than those gaudy numbers. Even if Johnson falls off a cliff now, the standard for the RB position for the Bills on 3rd down is astronomically high. Hilariously crazy takes by you.

The average above was based on 13 games, which is the same amount that played his rookie season. While he surpassed yardage and TD’s he did not in receptions. But yes the fact that he’s in the ballpark is reason for optimism That was Tim’s argument for cutting off the search at 2022 and not including rookies like Worthy or Ladd who had pretty good rookie seasons

I've been one of his biggest supporters since the start, and already said 1 month ago that he was gonna impress - his strength and quickness at top of route will be noticeably improved. Its not jump balls, its the leverage and his athletic ability that will be on better display. I think hes ready to be a big time player for us. Im going 65 catches for 900 yards and 8 TDs, if he can stay healthy all season.

This is make or break year. Pretty much like Elam.

Things are pointing in the direction that your numbers seem more than reasonable. I would actually consider bumping up the TDs. If everyone stays relatively healthy, I think the WR/TE group can put up some decent reception numbers.

Worth watching just for the soundtrack to the Ferguson highlights. Oozing with funk!

Well...it does roll that way sometimes (regression in 2nd season). Look at Kincaid.

Not to be a pedantic Karen (we have enough of those already) but it restarted in 1980 while Carter was still in office. Firsthand knowledge!

Great idea. Being one of the old guys, I’d make a couple suggestions: 1. I would think about Jerry Butler vs, Moulds at WR. His career was cut short by injury but he was something else. 2. I’d reverse Reed and Diggs; to me Andre almost invented slot receiver. 3. You don’t have a TE so I’d throw Ernie Warlick in there. 4. DT I’d have Tom Sestak. He was a great player. 5. DE: Could make a case for Ron McDole 6. OLB Mike Stratton was great. And MLB I might put London Fletcher, or Jim Haslett. Talley was really more an OLB. 7. CBs for me would be Robert James and Butch Byrd. I personally liked Egerson as much as Byrd James to me is the best CB to ever put on a Bills uniform. Could also put White here. 8. At S you could throw in Saimes and/or Tony Greene. Saimes was a mainstay of the great AFL defenses.

I think if any receiver on this team takes a leap, I think it will be Dalton Kincaid. If Keon can develop into a high end WR2 though I’d be floored..