Arkady Renko Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 People think that Ralph's will has the team going to the highest bidder because he doesn't care about Buffalo. I don't agree. I think he knows that his daughter and wife have no interest in running the Bills and he doesn't want them to have to deal with the headache of being the ones choosing who does buy the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorontoBuffalos Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 You are missing something. Mrs. Ralph does not want an interest in the team. She is out. She doesn't want to be Georgia Frontieri of Rams lore. Unless Ralph has been lying, the team is auctioned off and that is that. Having said all this, two things in favor of the numbers possibly working in WNY's favor is the fact that any buyer is required to have a 70,000 seat stadium. L.A. does not have one, nor does any other legit candidate city. During these times, no local/state authority will be funding a stadium. This is a huge burden on the numbers for any buyer. Plus, you know you will have the stadium filled in WNY, you do not know this for sure anywhere else. Therefore if some guy from indiana buys the team, he has to think twice before moving the franchise away from RWS and the fan base. RoseBowl seats 93,000 IMO isnt any worse to see a game there than the ralph... La Coliseum seats 90k also... There has been talk of puttng 100M into the coliseum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Memorial_Coliseum Get your facts straight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 RoseBowl seats 93,000 IMO isnt any worse to see a game there than the ralph... La Coliseum seats 90k also... There has been talk of puttng 100M into the coliseum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Memorial_Coliseum Get your facts straight... They would do better to put $200M into the ghetto that is South Los Angeles - then maybe folks might feel safer going there to watch a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrudginglyPessimistic Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 The only reality is what Ralph wants to happen after he passes. It doesn't matter what others think. I think this is also incorrect. What others want does in fact matter legally, contractually, and by past practice. Ralph has purchased the franchise from the AFL for the original small (by today's standards) with the agreement that he would abide by the rules of the AFL in terms of ownership of the franchise. These rules were amended with the agreement contractually of Mr. Ralph when the AFL joined the NFL in a merger. Under these rules and by agreement by Mr. Ralph when the team is sold 75% of the other owners MUST vote to agree with this choice or the sale is null and void. It does not matter if Ralph auction the team off to the highest bidder if that bidder cannot win approval of 75% of the other NFL owners. We have seen several examples occur where this approval may not be simple to obtain that someone or some group will get it simply by being the high bidder. Specifically, A. Just this week, objections from the NFLPA to having Rush Limbaugh be part of the ownership team bidding to buy the Rams resulted in the Dave Checketts group to jettison Limbaugh as part of the package. As many folks have noted the rule in the NFL is generally the golden rule (HE WHO HAS THE GOLD RULES). In this case the gold is not in the hands of some rich individual or group, the gold or real money is in the hands of the TV networks who happily are shipping 2/3 of the total NFL cash receipts to the league in exchange for a product they can sell car, beer and other ads around. If there is anything controversial about the high bidder which is gonna cause a significant NFL stakeholder like the networks, the NFLPA or a significant enough portion of the other owners to have a hissy fit that controversial figure or group will not get approval to be an owner, no matter what they bid. B. When Modell moved the Browns to Baltimore for big bucks for him, even a bunch of lightweights like Cleveland political leaders (it is one of two cities which along with Detroit is shown to be poorer than Buffalo), this City was able to pry another franchise out of the NFL despite Portland, LA, and other towns offering far bigger bucks to the NFL to set up a new franchise. The answer appeared to be that Ohio political figures offered a credible threat to endanger the partial exemption from antitrust laws the NFL and NFLPA use to employ the un-American tack of denying individual adults the ability to sell their skills to the highest bidder. In the rest of the sports world, kids as young as 16 are allowed to sell their skills to pro sports teams in baseball, hockey and other team sports. Parents of kids even younger get to sell their wares as "amateurs" in extreme sports, golf or other activities. Not only are parents denied their seeming human right of selling legal goods to the highest bidder, but even adults are denied this right in the NFL draft where men are restricted entry until their graduating class reaches 21. It is clear that Mr. Ralph will not be able to simply sell his team to the highest bidder as Mr. Ralph gave up this right without check when he bought a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I think this is also incorrect. What others want does in fact matter legally, contractually, and by past practice. Ralph has purchased the franchise from the AFL for the original small (by today's standards) with the agreement that he would abide by the rules of the AFL in terms of ownership of the franchise. These rules were amended with the agreement contractually of Mr. Ralph when the AFL joined the NFL in a merger. Under these rules and by agreement by Mr. Ralph when the team is sold 75% of the other owners MUST vote to agree with this choice or the sale is null and void. It does not matter if Ralph auction the team off to the highest bidder if that bidder cannot win approval of 75% of the other NFL owners. We have seen several examples occur where this approval may not be simple to obtain that someone or some group will get it simply by being the high bidder. Specifically, A. Just this week, objections from the NFLPA to having Rush Limbaugh be part of the ownership team bidding to buy the Rams resulted in the Dave Checketts group to jettison Limbaugh as part of the package. As many folks have noted the rule in the NFL is generally the golden rule (HE WHO HAS THE GOLD RULES). In this case the gold is not in the hands of some rich individual or group, the gold or real money is in the hands of the TV networks who happily are shipping 2/3 of the total NFL cash receipts to the league in exchange for a product they can sell car, beer and other ads around. If there is anything controversial about the high bidder which is gonna cause a significant NFL stakeholder like the networks, the NFLPA or a significant enough portion of the other owners to have a hissy fit that controversial figure or group will not get approval to be an owner, no matter what they bid. B. When Modell moved the Browns to Baltimore for big bucks for him, even a bunch of lightweights like Cleveland political leaders (it is one of two cities which along with Detroit is shown to be poorer than Buffalo), this City was able to pry another franchise out of the NFL despite Portland, LA, and other towns offering far bigger bucks to the NFL to set up a new franchise. The answer appeared to be that Ohio political figures offered a credible threat to endanger the partial exemption from antitrust laws the NFL and NFLPA use to employ the un-American tack of denying individual adults the ability to sell their skills to the highest bidder. In the rest of the sports world, kids as young as 16 are allowed to sell their skills to pro sports teams in baseball, hockey and other team sports. Parents of kids even younger get to sell their wares as "amateurs" in extreme sports, golf or other activities. Not only are parents denied their seeming human right of selling legal goods to the highest bidder, but even adults are denied this right in the NFL draft where men are restricted entry until their graduating class reaches 21. It is clear that Mr. Ralph will not be able to simply sell his team to the highest bidder as Mr. Ralph gave up this right without check when he bought a team. Just because one doesn't want to accept the possibility of the Bills being relocated doesn't mean that it won't occur, especially when the current nasty owner has included terms in his will which will make it most likely. If a purchasing group in Toronto or LA outbids any local bidders the franchise is going to be moved. It is the present wretched owner who has consistently bad-mouthed the western NY market he is presently in. Ralph Wilson, more than any other owner, has made the claim that a team can't be sustained in the western NY market. Do you think Dan Snyder of the Skins or Jerry Jones of the Cowgirls going to vote against a LA or Toronto group if they won the bid? Do you think the majority of owners are going to vote against a Buffalo team moved to bigger TV market? Let's get real here. Ralph Wilson doesn't know much about running a winning franchise. But what he does know how to do is to maximize the profit of his solely owned franchise. Over the last 10 yrs he has made approximately a quarter of a billion $$$ off of this so called small market team (Forbes NFL study). Does anyone doubt that he is not going to try to maximze the amount his estates gets for his team when he passes? His will states that it must be sold to the highest bidder. There is nothing in his will which favors local buyers. If a LA group bids the highest the team is moved there. If a Toronto group bids the highest it is moved there. If a local Buffalo group bids the highest it stays in place. Without a doubt there are conditions which the NFL requires bidders to meet. No one is disputing that point. Ralph certainly knows that. Prospective buyers know that. You can be very confident that the executor of his estate will make sure that the highest bidder will fulfill whatever requirement that is needed by the NFL. Because of what Ralph has so stipulated in his will where the team lands is not a consideration, the only issue is getting the most for the valuable asset. Anyone who doubts that the present grumpy owner of the Bills and his estate is not going to get the most out of the auction of his team is a fool. History is certainly not on your side. Ralph is Ralph. He is what he has always been. Count on it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Ralph' wife inherits the team. As his spouse, she is exempt from federal estate taxes. She then sells fractional shares of the team to whomever wishes to by them (maybe even Kelly's mysterious gang of high rollers will come out of the shadows). This way, each "owner" has a relatively low debt to service, Ms. Ralph pays taxes only on the fraction that she sells--and makes a mint---and the coterie of local buyers will assure the team stays in Buffalo. They can all split the 20-30 million a year Ralph takes from the team. Isn't this what Miami is doing? I think the NFL requires one majority owner of at least 51%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Diego Bills Fan Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Ralph' wife inherits the team. As his spouse, she is exempt from federal estate taxes. She then sells fractional shares of the team to whomever wishes to by them (maybe even Kelly's mysterious gang of high rollers will come out of the shadows). This way, each "owner" has a relatively low debt to service, Ms. Ralph pays taxes only on the fraction that she sells--and makes a mint---and the coterie of local buyers will assure the team stays in Buffalo. They can all split the 20-30 million a year Ralph takes from the team. Isn't this what Miami is doing? The Ralph is the second oldest stadium behind San Diego's old Jack Murphy Stadium, for the Bills to stay in Buffalo they will need a new Stadium, what are the chances of that happening? Not good! The Governator here in Cali just waived some enviormental snags so the stadium looking to be built in the City of Industry can begin, The LA paper targeted six teams of interest to fill this stadium when completed in 2012-2013 Buffalo,Jacksonville, San Diego, Minnesota, Kansas City and San Francisco. I think the first three have merrit, the last were thrown in for conversation. Doesn't the Bills lease run out in 2012? Has anyone heard of the Bills looking top extend the lease? If they do move I assume they would handle it similar to the Browns leave the intellectual property (the Name) in Buffalo and rename the team after the move, this would give us fans some false hope we would get an expansion franchise down the road and that folks will that will never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 The Ralph is the second oldest stadium behind San Diego's old Jack Murphy Stadium, for the Bills to stay in Buffalo they will need a new Stadium, what are the chances of that happening? Not good! The Governator here in Cali just waived some enviormental snags so the stadium looking to be built in the City of Industry can begin, The LA paper targeted six teams of interest to fill this stadium when completed in 2012-2013 Buffalo,Jacksonville, San Diego, Minnesota, Kansas City and San Francisco. I think the first three have merrit, the last were thrown in for conversation. Doesn't the Bills lease run out in 2012? Has anyone heard of the Bills looking top extend the lease? If they do move I assume they would handle it similar to the Browns leave the intellectual property (the Name) in Buffalo and rename the team after the move, this would give us fans some false hope we would get an expansion franchise down the road and that folks will that will never happen. Actually based on experts the areas sorounding the Great Lakes will once again (in our lifetimes) be very prosperous due to lack of fresh water. Buffalo once was one of the largest cities in the country, and when this happens it will once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 No disrespect, but why do posters on here keep posting ways the Bills will move or how they can be saved as if anyone on here actually has any say, input, or influence on the outcome of where the Bills stay or go? Truth of the matter is Bills and the group in LA have had talks, just as the group has had talks with other franchises...Ralph is either going to move the team or not...no suggestion or idea posted here will have any affect on that, all you can do is cross your fingers and hope one way or the other. Me personally, I would love to see the Bills in LA as I live in LA, but I am fully aware that is not the popular choice... WOW, you profess to be a Bills fan but want them moved to LA? They would no longer be the BUFFALO Bills then you IDIOT. Are the Colts the Baltimore Colts? Are the Ravens the Cleveland Ravens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Every thing is speculation right now. I'd love to believe that Ralph put Jim Kelly in his will to take over the team, but nobody knows that. But one thing is for sure, Jim Kelly is always on the sidelines and I believe is more involved with the team than we know. Being an out of town Bills fan, I'm so sick and tired of hearing we're losing our team to L.A. or Toronto. The home games have been sold out for numerous years, yet haven't made the playoffs since '99, but there are teams like the Jags that are lucky to 50% attendance for their games. IMO, the Jags or Rams will be a team that relocates, not Buffalo. If an owner were to buy the Bills and try and relocate them, that onwer would need between 2-3 billion dollars to buy the team, pay the big relocation fee and build a new stadium. I doubt that would happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tbone Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 This thread is so full of misconceptions its not funny. If your not a lawyer or an accountant stop making claims that you understand estate law it is ridiculous! WEO: She WILL NOT own the team. Ralph's ESTATE will own the team, apparently (as Ralph has said) his orders are to sell the team. It will be sold by the administrator and then she will get her share of the estate. Thoner: Ralph can keep the team away from his wife, he cannot keep the VALUE OF HIS ESTATE from his wife (depending on any pre-nup that may exist). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 This thread is so full of misconceptions its not funny. If your not a lawyer or an accountant stop making claims that you understand estate law it is ridiculous! WEO: She WILL NOT own the team. Ralph's ESTATE will own the team, apparently (as Ralph has said) his orders are to sell the team. It will be sold by the administrator and then she will get her share of the estate. Thoner: Ralph can keep the team away from his wife, he cannot keep the VALUE OF HIS ESTATE from his wife (depending on any pre-nup that may exist). The concept of an auction is very simple: Item (franchise) will be sold to the highest bidder. It is as smiple as that. Many people (fans) just can't understand why someone who has been supported for half a century by the fans and local government could be so blithely unconcerned with the probable departure of the local institution. There should be no surprise. Ralph is Ralph. This is a narcissist owner who got control of the naming rights for the stadium and then had it named after him, thus forgoing revenue from it. This is the same tough owner who negotiated a lease which enables him and prospective out of town owners easy terms to buy out the lease. This is the same owner who has made in the vicinity of a quarter of a billion $$$ over the past ten years (Forbes study) and still continues to lament how he is struggling in such a small market compared to the big boy owners. Ralph Wilson can handle the intense criticisms from the fans regarding the garbage product on the field. What he is not going to tolerate is anyone hindering his ability to squeeze as much profit out of this putrid franchise while he is alive and when he is dead. No surprise. Ralph is being Ralph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 No criticism of rw allowed...He's an HOF owner and is to be revered for eternity...future robber baron kids will look up at his bust at Canton in awe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 It is clearly stated in his will. didn't realize the contents of his will were made public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince61 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 What am I imbibing??? Kilos of real my friend! You are all missing the point. If Ralph kicks tomorrow--there is no highest bidder. Mrs. Ralph becomes the owner of the team. A buyer may be months, if not longer, away (Kelly and his friends don't have a billion dollars). She WILL own the team. There is no "out" until she sells. It is part of his estate--it will go to a beneficiary. My plan allows her to sell it in parcels. If there are local parties intersted, this is the only way any Buffalonian will be able to finance it. She doesn't have to do anything as far as running the team or representing the team as an owner. Any of the others could do this. She would be reduced to an investor, with a tidy return each year. The buyers get a full stadium every game. We get a chance the chance to have an ownership interested in fielding a respectable football team. Thanks Counselor, but that's just not how it works. Ralph decides to leave the team to whomever he wants. Fact is, he has stated publically that he is not leaving the team to his wife. This makes sense because if he left it all to her, he'd be leaving his kids/grandkids out of (what I assume is) the biggest asset in the will. You see Ralph is a father and grandfather and your theory would only work if Mrs. WIlson were the only one named in the will, which is a highly unlikely scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 didn't realize the contents of his will were made public. Larry Felser is a retired sports columnist of the Buffalo News. He has known Ralph Wilson for half a century and considers him a friend. He was the main advocate for Ralph Wilson's induction in the HOF. The below quote was taken from a column he wrote. "Bills’ fans have been in mortal fear of losing their team of the last half century to, in the words of owner Ralph Wilson’s last will and testament, “the highest bidder.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 Thanks Counselor, but that's just not how it works. Ralph decides to leave the team to whomever he wants. Fact is, he has stated publically that he is not leaving the team to his wife. This makes sense because if he left it all to her, he'd be leaving his kids/grandkids out of (what I assume is) the biggest asset in the will. You see Ralph is a father and grandfather and your theory would only work if Mrs. WIlson were the only one named in the will, which is a highly unlikely scenario. He would leave it to his wife before his children as they would be liable for an inheritence tax. The spouse pays no tax. He may leave it to his estate, but how does this satisfy his wife's due value of the estate if the team does not sell? The majority owner of a team must put up 30% of the value/purchase of the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Ralph' wife inherits the team. As his spouse, she is exempt from federal estate taxes. She then sells fractional shares of the team to whomever wishes to by them (maybe even Kelly's mysterious gang of high rollers will come out of the shadows). This way, each "owner" has a relatively low debt to service, Ms. Ralph pays taxes only on the fraction that she sells--and makes a mint---and the coterie of local buyers will assure the team stays in Buffalo. They can all split the 20-30 million a year Ralph takes from the team. Isn't this what Miami is doing? Ok folks...there is too many scenarios that may play out...however I do know that the NFL has no interest in expanding and currently The LA stadium is a go to be built. That being said one team will be moving there...there is about 7 that have been discussed however I truly believe the Jags will be the ones who go. Their fan base is poor and demographically wont get any better. In addition, their is numerous economic indicators that say Buffalos economy is actually on the mend if you can believe it! So who really cares who owns the team...as long as they stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koufax Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Slightly off topic, but what makes Ralph tick? I don't quite understand how he values different things and makes his decisions. His franchise is worth hundreds of millions and he has more money than he and his entire family could spend in many generations. More power to him, but why is the highest bidder and estate taxes among his key considerations? Why does saving a couple million on an inferior head coach make sense to him? I'm just wondering where the total lack of Jerry Jones / George Steinbrenner / Mark Cuban / Art Moreno comes from. I guess he has made himself a small market advocate and that probably is a source of joy for him more than winning or competing each year would be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 if I was Ralph's age, I would think about my mark on the world, which honestly is: The Buffalo Bills. The stadium is named after him, the field house is named after him, the team and the facility was created with his vision. It is highly visible throughout the country, world, and is a huge part of life in Western New York. A Man's mark is also his family. Any way you slice it, Ralph's passing will ensure they all have more money than they could ever possibly spend. Any way it shakes out, his family legacy would be the same. It makes me dizzy to think about how Ralph would be so cavalier with the future of the team in Buffalo. His team could live on forever, along with his name on the stadium, a street would likely be named after him, a statue outside the stadium, etc.... Everyone in Buffalo would remember Ralph very fondly if he locked them into WNY. He would be a hero. its strange that he would simply max out/cash out and allow his team and all around it to go 'poof'. I would think his heirs would be fine if they received a little less money if the man who built it wanted his legacy to remain in this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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