Tbone

The taxation applied depends on the basis a person holds in the asset (to over simplify what "basis" is, it is what the person paid for the asset). Ralph paid $25,000 for the Bills he will not be taxed on the first $25,000 he gains from the Bills, thus there will be no double taxation with regard to that amount. Other owners, who have higher basis can plan differently. For instance if Jerry paid 500 million for the Cowboys, the first $500 million will no be subject to taxation. So yes, in some instances it can make sense to sell off ownership stakes- it doesnt in Ralph's situation. I think that people that have no experience with estate planning assume that there are a bunch of loopholes that make escaping tax easy. That is simply wrong. You are correct that an estate tax burden can be minimized by charitable giving. Ralph could do that, however the most likely way that is done is through a complete sale of the Team at death and a distribution of the proceeds to a charitable organization- so you theory is plausible in that regard. Assuming however that the tax plan Ralph has shared with us on numerous occasions is correct- no portion of the team will be sold until death. As for your irrevocable trust statement- that all depends on what the trust is set up to do... some trust can avoid some types of taxation, but most likely another applies. If the trust benefits an individual or individuals it is a gift thus applying the gift tax- which is presently higher than the estate tax- meaning that the team would most likely be sold to raise the funds to pay the tax. You simply are making statements you have no knowledge on so you should stop- you comment on Alzheimers makes that clear- if someone executes documents and they are not of sound mind those documents are not legally binding in this case with over a billion at stake that would lead to litigation, charges against his attorneys etc.

Stop it already! No- Ralph didnt sell 30% of the team in 2010- why because doing so would suject the sale to a double tax- once with capital gains, and again at death. Ralph's plan is simple- if he sells ANY of the team prior to death he will be subject to capital gains tax, and the amount that he realizes will be taxed again through his estate- so his estate will sell the team after his death thereby subjecting the sum to taxation once. The thing to remember is were are talking about 10's of millions of dollars- EACH time the value of the team is taxed. For some reason people are resistant to listening what Ralph has said- he has an estate plan- it is to sell the team at death to the highest bidder. Sorry but it makes NO sense to sell ANY part of the team before death.

I am going on my honeymoon and am in search of a place to watch a game... anybody know of one? I couldn't find one on the Billsbackers page. Thanks in advance.

Does anyone know why WGR has Paul Hamilton sitting on the sidelines during training camp? Is he going to be covering the Bills this season? I appreciate Joe Buscaglia's tweets but his on air insights dont hold a candle to Hamilton's.

Is it bad that half of me hopes the teams does poorly? I really think this team needs to hit rock bottom before it can start moving up again... if you look at most of the "elite" teams in the league the did so before the got better and then got really good (See, Indianapolis, The Giants, Atlanta, Dallas, New Orleans).

While I love the passion my personal dream differs (but is based on the same premise)... a stadium build out of Buffalo Central Terminal...

I think the interesting question to ask is do you think Brees would have made it here... he had a mediocre (at best) 3 seasons before he broke out in his fourth season... I have to think we would have given up on him after his third no so hot season... maybe that is the lesson to be learned from the Brees experience?

I think its highly likely we are waiting for somebody... in the college ranks.

Why is it relevant that Vitt has ties to KC when Gailey wasn't there?

Call me crazy but I think I would take Kolb.

What kind of car does your source "deep within" drive?

April had the contractual option to leave. The bills could not have made him stay and wait for the new HC.

yeah, my thought is you're a moron

I think everyone is being hard on soprano... it could be credible, all we need to know is what kind of car his source deep withing OBD drives... if its something fancy, it is a credible report.

I wish the threads title was "John Fox interested in Bills HC Job"

WEO... dont be sore that I am calling you on the BS that you continue to put out there. I dont take me self too seriously, but what drives me nuts is when someone makes statements of "fact" that couldnt be farther from the truth. FYI, under your suggestion Wilson's estate still gets double taxed... once for capital gains, and once as a gift. The gift tax is higher than the estate tax. Your plan would cause a greater de-valuation of the estate then if Wilson sold it now and then was taxed again at his death.

WEO- you are not a lawyer either... you DO NOT UNDERSTAND TAX LAW. The last time we had this conversation you didnt realize Wilson's wife would have to pay a capital gains tax on the team... I am glad to see at least you now realize that is the case. But, you still should not be making up "ideas" and spreading them as fact when you dont have the knowledge to back them up. Do you realize that setting up a "legal trust" (what ever that is), to dole out her "booty" she would trigger another layer of tax? I am begging all of those who want to comment about legal matters they dont understand to refrain from doing so- all you are accomplishing is spreading mis-information that makes a serious conversation on the topic impossible. :lol: :wallbash:

My point is that you dont understand what you are talking about. It is not easy to avoid the estate tax AND pass significant assets to heirs that are not your spouse, the fact that you think it is shows that you have absolutely NO knowledge about estates, gifts and trusts. If it were as easy as you suggest there would be no estate tax, and certainly the government wouldnt be making hundreds of billions each year from the estate tax (and remember, the people that pay the estate tax are usually pretty sophisticated businessmen, because an estate has to be worth more than 3.5 million to have tax imposed). That is not to say that planning cant be done to minimize estate tax exposure, but I should also note that in the instances where you can avoid the estate tax many times other taxes apply (for example the gift tax). Estate planning is not simple, much of it deals with structuring transfers due to the needs of heirs, most of the time a secondary concern is the tax that will be applied. There is a world of possibilities with regard to the disposition of Mr. Wilson's assets, but they are not of the range that you think.

Unless your a lawyer you shouldn't be making such comments. You clearly have no understanding of what goes into the creation of a 501c3 and the prohibitions associated with the operation of one. You seem to imply that Wilson should partake in a fraud of sorts by creating a 501c3 to presumably run a FOR PROFIT football operation and then dumping assets to his heirs to avoid the estate tax. "Ralph has already made sure of this. I know the guys who did the transfer but i cant tell what kind of car i drive. Does anyone really think a business man like ralph is dumb enough to not have thought of the tax implications a long time ago?" I highly doubt this is the case, in the even that Wilson has transferred the team into an irrevocable trust and somehow a media outlet hasnt caught wind of it, it would be questionable as to whether he could avoid the estate tax with it given the amount of control over the organization he has. :lol:

It's not just the estate tax. It is the capital gains tax as well. Remember Wilson only bought the team for 25k- that will result in over 800 million of taxable gains! Wilson will never sell the team because it will result in double taxation 10s of millions of dollars will be lost. Please no more sale conversations.

Actually I remember it quite well- the difference you are failing to catch is that there are PROSPECTS and there are "#1 pick talent"... prospects who could become very good- often go to the practice squad and often make names for themselves in the NFL... there is no debate in my mind that Brohm is prospect and should be given a shot to develop. First round talents however are generally players who teams believe will have an instant impact or, at the very least, do not require the investment that prospects do. Granted it doesnt always work out, but rarely (if ever) do first round talents find their way to a practice squad.

It's so complicated for people to grasp because teams dont put players that are "#1 pick talent" on their practice squad- ever.

Are you serious? Where do you get off using the topic heading "Fisher lobbying for 2010 Bills?" out of that?

This thread is so full of misconceptions its not funny. If your not a lawyer or an accountant stop making claims that you understand estate law it is ridiculous! WEO: She WILL NOT own the team. Ralph's ESTATE will own the team, apparently (as Ralph has said) his orders are to sell the team. It will be sold by the administrator and then she will get her share of the estate. Thoner: Ralph can keep the team away from his wife, he cannot keep the VALUE OF HIS ESTATE from his wife (depending on any pre-nup that may exist).

How many times do we have to have this discussion? Wilson will not sell the team- it makes no sense, it results in a double taxation of the value of the team (which means his estate will lose tens of millions of dollars).