Former Tampa GM Bruce Allen linked to Bills

[Magox]

Thank you. At least someone has some sanity. I'm so tired of the "experts" analyzing these draft prospects and making ridiculous claims about a player's worth.

 

Tim Tebow is everything we need as a quarterback and MORE. He's TOUGH as nails, he's a LEADER, he has supreme CONFIDENCE, he IMPROVES himself every year, he has a BIG ARM, and he is a PROVEN WINNER.

 

If you don't think this guy should be a Buffalo Bill next year, I think you're crazy.

what do you expect, we are all "experts"

[mrags]

The reason I didnt talk about Oakland was because of someones direct comments on his time in TB, which is why I kept it to TB.

 

Look, honestly, I would take Gruden any day over DJ at this point, if for nothing else, the attitude. But having played football I know how bad it is to have your players not trust you. You could be Lombardi himself, but if your players dont trust you then you wont win, and its been well documented that he was fired because his players didnt trust him in TB. That is what concerns me the most.

 

Gruden did have a good run in Oakland, but for me, his time in TB was poor during the 6 years after the SB. He had just one really good season in 7 years, and that was the year more than 90% of the team was the team he inherited and he won the SB. In six years he had back to back winning seasons once and only made playoffs twice (both times as a team that posed no threat to make a good run in playoffs).

 

And, its hard, and I mean pretty hard, for a coach to lose the trust of his team, especially one with a SB ring and a mystique like Gruden. To me, that says far more than a SB ring he won given how he won it...

 

You may be right about the trust issue. Im not going to comment because I wouldnt know. But he didnt exactly have the best scenario in Tampa. Not that he would for sure here either. But he most likely wouldnt be handcuffed to no 1st and 2nd round picks for the first few years. He would have a QB that IMO even he could coach and progress with, and if not theres always FA or the draft.

 

The fact is that he is miles better than Jauron. I would take Gruden and the worst team in the league over Jauron and these Bills almost any day. Chances are about 50/50 on who would win that game.

[Alphadawg7]

You may be right about the trust issue. Im not going to comment because I wouldnt know. But he didnt exactly have the best scenario in Tampa. Not that he would for sure here either. But he most likely wouldnt be handcuffed to no 1st and 2nd round picks for the first few years. He would have a QB that IMO even he could coach and progress with, and if not theres always FA or the draft.

 

The fact is that he is miles better than Jauron. I would take Gruden and the worst team in the league over Jauron and these Bills almost any day. Chances are about 50/50 on who would win that game.

 

Yeah I hear ya, like I said, I too would take Gruden over DJ if for nothing else the attitude he brings. I just think there are better options available so he is not my first choice. I think he is over hyped and the fact his team didnt trust him or belive he could win is a lot bigger than many people understand.

 

One other thing about Gruden is that he prefers veteran QB's not young QB's and has never really had any success yet developing a young QB. In fact, TB managed their QB's worse than how we have handled ours in Buffalo, and thats saying a lot and that was one of the contributors to why his team didtnt trust him. So if we do get a young QB in the draft, I would have some concerns on whether Gruden would have the patience to develop him.

 

I think Bruce Allen makes our FO worse...look at our draft this year for example, it is looking like a very good draft. There wasnt a single year in TB under Allen that was considered a "good" draft let alone a very good draft and they werent missing thsoe draft picks mentioned by some all 7 years they were there.

 

So would I be upset if we got Gruden...No. Would I prefer him to DJ...Yes. Do I think he is over hyped...Yes

 

Would I be upset if got Allen...Yes. Do I think he is any good...Nope

[billsfan89]

Really? He made the playoffs and won the SB in his FIRST year there with a team built by someone else...after that, he missed the playoffs, dismantled the team and managed just TWO playoff appearances in 6 years after, none of which his team was even a threat to go far.

 

He destroyed a perennial SB contending team after winning the SB in his first year there, the very year TB was already the favorite to win it anyway which led to him having a losing season the very next year after the SB win. A point carefully ignored is that he had a HUGE advantage in that SB win as he knew the offense inside and out and they didnt change it. His players have already acknowledged this saying they exactly what Oakland was doing throughout the whole game.

 

He had only ONE back to back winning seasons, and that was his last 2 years there where he was 9-7...and then last year he missed the playoffs despite leading the division with 4 weeks left by losing all 4 games in a row, including the last game of the season to the lowly Raiders where a win gets him in the playoffs...

 

Yeah, he was really great in TB.

 

Not to mention, he jettisoned his best players, the players didnt trust him (which is why he was fired), he mismanages QB's more than we do, cant develop a QB, and has a horrendous draft record with Mr. Allen...

 

lmao

 

Well if you discount the Super Bowl win in 2002 then you have to factor in Gruden's his work was the Raiders. The Raiders were a constant threat to win the Super Bowl from 2000-2002 (Conference title game in 2000, lost on the Tuck rule in 2001 in the second run, and Lost the Super Bowl in 2002).

 

Gruden might not have built that Tampa team in 2002 but he did take them farther then Dungy which is still an accomplishment. So while his post 2002 work with Tampa might have been mediocre his work with the Raiders and the 2002 run was pretty dam good.

 

So Gruden was pretty key in rebuilding the Raiders (Which as we see now isn't an easy thing to do and might be one of the few situations that is actually worse than the Bills) and if he came here to Buffalo I would be confident he could do a similar job. As for Allen his work with Tampa was fairly below average but he was a part of rebuilding the Raiders in a senior consultant form.

[tonyd19]

Vince had one good year in college, and iced his draft status by beating USC. And I would still take him on this team today. I'd take Vick's talent too, just not his character. And I don't know who ever said any of those things about Cade McNown. Flutie was great to watch on this team. I'd take him back at age 30 any day.

 

Tebow has proven year after year that he's a winner. He's going to be a great QB in this league.

 

 

Vince Young....got benched for Kerry Collins....KERRY COLLINS FOR CHRSIT SAKE, and everyone loved him out of college after the Rose Bowl the year before he beat USC because he was an athlete who knew how to win. All I need to know about him is that Tenessee is 0 and 6, and was down 52 - 0 last week and Jeff Fischer STILL did not trust him to be in the game. Sometimes silence can be deafening.

 

Michael Vick was a great athlete who knew how to win and was immensly overrated as a starting QB in the NFL....take out the character issues, he was not that good anyway, and was REGRESSING badly as a quarterback before going to jail.

 

Cade McKnown was a top 10 pick who was a good athlete who knew how to win, and like the others, did not have the fundamental skills to be a quarterback in the NFL. But obviously a lot of people thought this guy was the answer because he was a top 10 pick, so to say nobody thought he was a good QB is just not true. Noetheless, he was out of the league in 3 years.

 

Flutie, another good athlete who knew how to win, was out of the NFL within 5 years. he had to develop FOR A LONG time before being ready to lead in the NFL. And I was (and am) a big Flutie fan when he was in Buffalo.

 

Tebow is another very, very good athlete, who is not a fundamentally sound QB...Some overconfident GM will say to themself...I can turn this great athlete into a fundamentally sound NFL quarterback....maybe so, maybe no. But the track record for scrambling QB's with poor fundamentals, who come from College programs where they were treated like royalty, and are not challenged to improve becasue they "were exceptional athletes and knew how to win" is not a very good one.

[Alphadawg7]

Well if you discount the Super Bowl win in 2002 then you have to factor in Gruden's his work was the Raiders. The Raiders were a constant threat to win the Super Bowl from 2000-2002 (Conference title game in 2000, lost on the Tuck rule in 2001 in the second run, and Lost the Super Bowl in 2002).

 

Gruden might not have built that Tampa team in 2002 but he did take them farther then Dungy which is still an accomplishment. So while his post 2002 work with Tampa might have been mediocre his work with the Raiders and the 2002 run was pretty dam good.

 

So Gruden was pretty key in rebuilding the Raiders (Which as we see now isn't an easy thing to do and might be one of the few situations that is actually worse than the Bills) and if he came here to Buffalo I would be confident he could do a similar job. As for Allen his work with Tampa was fairly below average but he was a part of rebuilding the Raiders in a senior consultant form.

 

I hear ya, and his time with the Raiders is the reason I would be fine with him taking over for DJ. Still, I think there are better options out there... Which Gruden do you get? How intrumental was he in rebuilding the Raiders? If you think about, the same can be said for him in Oakland. They finally made the SB once Gruden left. And regardless what anyone says, IMO the Tuck rule was the correct call according to the rules. So, as far as I am concerned he lost that game fair and square.

 

All I know is he was given a tremndous amount of influence in TB, way more than Oakland, and that organization was never the same again and he was eventually fired for losing the trust of his team. His managing of QB's considering we yet to have one, also concerns me unless he brings in a proven vet.

[Bill from NYC]

Flutie, another good athlete who knew how to win, was out of the NFL within 5 years. he had to develop FOR A LONG time before being ready to lead in the NFL. And I was (and am) a big Flutie fan when he was in Buffalo.

 

There is every reason to believe that Flutie was blackballed by the NFL. He was never going to be great, but while he was in Canada he was better than at least half of the NFL qbs that played in this time span.

[mygodhatesbuffalo]

All this talk about Tebow...I seem to remember the best QB in Buffalo Bills history had to hold a special tryout for scouts because they wanted him to play linebacker.

 

Scouts don't have a crystal ball or else Tom Brady would not have been taken where he was in the draft.

 

All I want for Christmas is a head coach and QB that shows some emotion and has lots of balls. In today's NFL you can't play to not lose and you can't be afraid to make mistakes.

 

I say bring on Tim Tebow, Jon Gruden, and Bruce Allen!!!

[nucci]

All this talk about Tebow...I seem to remember the best QB in Buffalo Bills history had to hold a special tryout for scouts because they wanted him to play linebacker.

 

Scouts don't have a crystal ball or else Tom Brady would not have been taken where he was in the draft.

 

All I want for Christmas is a head coach and QB that shows some emotion and has lots of balls. In today's NFL you can't play to not lose and you can't be afraid to make mistakes.

 

I say bring on Tim Tebow, Jon Gruden, and Bruce Allen!!!

That's not correct about Kelly. Paterno wanted to play him LB at Penn State. Kelly wanted to play QB so he went to Miami instead.

[tonyd19]

There is every reason to believe that Flutie was blackballed by the NFL. He was never going to be great, but while he was in Canada he was better than at least half of the NFL qbs that played in this time span.

 

 

I agree, but the record is what the record is....... and the record is that Flutie (for whatever reason) could not stay in the NFL and had to develop in the CFL for many years. When he got a second chance he made the most of it....but even during his good years in Buffalo, he was an average to mediocre QB (numbers wise, not balls and win wise) And he managed to get benched before the Music City >>>>> We'll we all know what BS that was.

[tonyd19]

And what seperates Flutie from Tebow is that Flutie was very fundamentally sound, as well as being a good athlete, he was just small so he did not get a lot of love from coaches. Tebow is not fundamentally sound.

[extrahammer]

We need a Franchise GM, Franchise Coach....

 

Look at Indianapolis, Look at New York (Giants), Look at San Diego, Look at Cincinnatti, Look at Atlanta....

 

And a Franchise Quarterback.

[Heitz]

I'd welcome the move...

 

Allen is at least a *football* man. And I'd welcome Gruden for his attitude alone - this team needs a kick in the ass and some intensity. Also, from what I've seen on MNF he LOVES the Wildcat, he get's giddy when teams run it. Run his D, bring in some Wildcat guru and let Freddy and Marshawn loose!

[BillsVet]

We need a Franchise GM, Franchise Coach....

 

Look at Indianapolis, Look at New York (Giants), Look at San Diego, Look at Cincinnatti, Look at Atlanta....

 

And a Franchise Quarterback.

 

I would argue not having an outstanding GM hurts a team more than one expects. Teams without good personnel men do not draft well, forcing a reliance on UFA's who are notoriously overpaid which affects the cap hit. The Bills haven't had a good GM in forever, and it's no coincidence they've failed to do anything on the field in a decade.

 

When I look at the Bills roster, it's thin at so many positions. For a smaller market team, it's absolutely necessary to hit on all first round picks, and stockpile as many first day picks as possible. The key is finding guys in the 2nd-4th rounds. The Bills picks from 06-08 there? Youboty, Simpson, Posluszny, Edwards, Wright, Hardy, Ellis, Corner, and Fine. That's not cutting it, because out of that group there's only one sure-fire starter for 2010: Posluszny.

[Wilson from Gamehendge]

PLEASE SEE: VINCE YOUNG, MICHAEL VICK, CADE MCNOWN....AND DARE I SAY DOUG FLUTIE (UNTIL HE GOT SOME MORE EXPERIENCE IN THE CFL)

 

Vince Young has many years left to salvage his career...and it looks like he will get his opportunity sooner, rather than later.

 

Now, I ask this?

 

How many National Championships and Heisman Trophies did Michael Vick and/or Cade McNown win?

 

 

 

I have heard over and over again, that if Mike Holmgren gets a "Bill Parcells-type job", like he wants...that he will bring along Gruden as his Head Coach. (It's been on ESPN, Sunday NFL Countdown, NFL Live, NFL Network news, CNNSI, ETC ETC)