San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Guy is an average GM from his work with Tampa and Oakland but glad to hear that someone who has experience is being considered Bruce Allen was a "senior assistant" with the Raiders. It's not really clear who does what in that organization but he did help build a Super Bowl team. You are correct in that the Buccaneers drafted poorly in the time that Allen was GM. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/tam.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go Bills!!! Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 That would be sweet and why not? I'd love to see a hot young QB in Buffalo and someone like Gruden! Of course it may be wishful thinking, but what's wrong with wishful thinking? Allen + Gruden + Tebow = Success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In space no one can hear Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 An analysis of Bruce Allens record with the Bucs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Gruden took them to the playoffs in three separate seasons, and actually WON a Superbowl with them. I'm pretty sure he was a successful coach there. Really? He made the playoffs and won the SB in his FIRST year there with a team built by someone else...after that, he missed the playoffs, dismantled the team and managed just TWO playoff appearances in 6 years after, none of which his team was even a threat to go far. He destroyed a perennial SB contending team after winning the SB in his first year there, the very year TB was already the favorite to win it anyway which led to him having a losing season the very next year after the SB win. A point carefully ignored is that he had a HUGE advantage in that SB win as he knew the offense inside and out and they didnt change it. His players have already acknowledged this saying they exactly what Oakland was doing throughout the whole game. He had only ONE back to back winning seasons, and that was his last 2 years there where he was 9-7...and then last year he missed the playoffs despite leading the division with 4 weeks left by losing all 4 games in a row, including the last game of the season to the lowly Raiders where a win gets him in the playoffs... Yeah, he was really great in TB. Not to mention, he jettisoned his best players, the players didnt trust him (which is why he was fired), he mismanages QB's more than we do, cant develop a QB, and has a horrendous draft record with Mr. Allen... lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mob16151 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Really? He made the playoffs and won the SB in his FIRST year there with a team built by someone else...after that, he missed the playoffs, dismantled the team and managed just TWO playoff appearances in 6 years after, none of which his team was even a threat to go far. He destroyed a perennial SB contending team after winning the SB in his first year there, the very year TB was already the favorite to win it anyway which led to him having a losing season the very next year after the SB win. A point carefully ignored is that he had a HUGE advantage in that SB win as he knew the offense inside and out and they didnt change it. His players have already acknowledged this saying they exactly what Oakland was doing throughout the whole game. He had only ONE back to back winning seasons, and that was his last 2 years there where he was 9-7...and then last year he missed the playoffs despite leading the division with 4 weeks left by losing all 4 games in a row, including the last game of the season to the lowly Raiders where a win gets him in the playoffs... Yeah, he was really great in TB. Not to mention, he jettisoned his best players, the players didnt trust him (which is why he was fired), he mismanages QB's more than we do, cant develop a QB, and has a horrendous draft record with Mr. Allen... lmao And yet with all that being said....he'd still be our best coach of the last 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STLBILLS15 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Amen ... Tebow is not an NFL QB tired of always hearing this. you really have never have watched the dang kid play. Hell just last week against Arkansas (not Superman's best game) he launched a 55 yd BOMB for a TD. Sick of people talking about how he doesn't have arm strength. Watch a game and get a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Why did this get no replies? Wouldnt this be huge news? Because anyone with a computer can start a rumor and most are baseless. Who mentioned Allen? Some blogger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Why did this get no replies? Wouldnt this be huge news? Because anyone with a computer can start a rumor and most are baseless. Who mentioned Allen? Some blogger? Nucci...some blogger? "John Czarnecki has been the editorial consultant for FOX NFL Sunday since its 1994 inception. This season marks Czarnecki's 32nd year covering the NFL. He is one of 44 selectors to the Pro Football Hall of Fame." To give some possible credence to this rumor, Marv Levy got his second NFL job when he was hired by George Allen (who is Bruce Allen's dad) to run the Los Angeles Rams special teams. When Allen left to take the Washington Redskins job, he took Levy with him. Levy remained with Allen for two years (three years total) before leaving to become head coach of the Montreal Alouettes. Levy has often said that George Allen was his biggest influence as a coach. Marv is probably one of the very few people that Ralph Wilson still listens to and leans on for advice. It's very possible that Marv has some sort of friendly relationship with Bruce Allen. So if you connect the dots at least, there's some credence to this rumor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Nucci...some blogger? "John Czarnecki has been the editorial consultant for FOX NFL Sunday since its 1994 inception. This season marks Czarnecki's 32nd year covering the NFL. He is one of 44 selectors to the Pro Football Hall of Fame." Sorry. My fault. I was up early..... the Yanks blew it...had not had coffee yet..... and any other excuse I can think of... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Really? He made the playoffs and won the SB in his FIRST year there with a team built by someone else...after that, he missed the playoffs, dismantled the team and managed just TWO playoff appearances in 6 years after, none of which his team was even a threat to go far. He destroyed a perennial SB contending team after winning the SB in his first year there, the very year TB was already the favorite to win it anyway which led to him having a losing season the very next year after the SB win. A point carefully ignored is that he had a HUGE advantage in that SB win as he knew the offense inside and out and they didnt change it. His players have already acknowledged this saying they exactly what Oakland was doing throughout the whole game. He had only ONE back to back winning seasons, and that was his last 2 years there where he was 9-7...and then last year he missed the playoffs despite leading the division with 4 weeks left by losing all 4 games in a row, including the last game of the season to the lowly Raiders where a win gets him in the playoffs... Yeah, he was really great in TB. Not to mention, he jettisoned his best players, the players didnt trust him (which is why he was fired), he mismanages QB's more than we do, cant develop a QB, and has a horrendous draft record with Mr. Allen... lmao Gruden added missing pieces to the Bucs when he got there along with an offense. The Bucs were NOT favorites to get to the Super Bowl. Gruden beat the Eagles in Philly a VERY GOOD team, for the NFC Championship. After winning the Super Bowl the Bucs started losing players to free agency as well as Coaches such as Lovie Smith, Mike Tomlin, Rod Marinelli, Raheem Morris, etc. This was their problem, they couldn't replace the coaches & the players because they didn't have draft picks, & couldn't sign free agents due to the fact they were at the cap limit. The Bucs were forced to let some good players leave because of their contracts & the cap. Last year he stuck with Garcia at QB, a big mistake in my opinion, he cost Gruden his job. I can't argue the fact his players didn't trust him, they didn't. The Bucs draft record under Allen was pretty good I think considering the lack of picks they had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Ralph, I'm telling you right now as a season ticket holder......you get Allen, then he gets Gruden, you can raise my ticket prices $15 per game, per ticket. It would be worth it, and then we could be at NFL average. I know everyone around my seats would agree. But of course it won't happen. Bring on the current Browns offensive coordinator to be the next head coach, and we'll be right back to where we are now, just four years from now. I am also a season ticket holder and agree 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Guy is an average GM from his work with Tampa and Oakland but glad to hear that someone who has experience is being considered Average would be a huge step forward for the Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Really? He made the playoffs and won the SB in his FIRST year there with a team built by someone else...after that, he missed the playoffs, dismantled the team and managed just TWO playoff appearances in 6 years after, none of which his team was even a threat to go far. He destroyed a perennial SB contending team after winning the SB in his first year there, the very year TB was already the favorite to win it anyway which led to him having a losing season the very next year after the SB win. A point carefully ignored is that he had a HUGE advantage in that SB win as he knew the offense inside and out and they didnt change it. His players have already acknowledged this saying they exactly what Oakland was doing throughout the whole game. He had only ONE back to back winning seasons, and that was his last 2 years there where he was 9-7...and then last year he missed the playoffs despite leading the division with 4 weeks left by losing all 4 games in a row, including the last game of the season to the lowly Raiders where a win gets him in the playoffs... Yeah, he was really great in TB. Not to mention, he jettisoned his best players, the players didnt trust him (which is why he was fired), he mismanages QB's more than we do, cant develop a QB, and has a horrendous draft record with Mr. Allen... lmao Whats funny is that you discredit him for winning the Super Bowl because he inherited the "already favorite" to win but you didnt give him any credit for his competition in that game. It works both ways. If your saying Dungy should get credit for putting that Super Bowl team together then you have to give Gruden credit for putting the Raiders Super Bowl team together. At that point one can argue that Gruden won because he was the better coach. He would be 100 times better than what we have now. How many Playoff games does Jauron have on his record? Now ask yourself how many Gruden has. The facts are that Gruden has taken multiple teams to multiple playoff games. He was also the QB coach in Green Bay during the Holmgren years. I would say he did pretty well there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWings Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I'd take Bruce Dickinson instead. Absolutely...he's a Trooper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Because none of us believe Ralph would ever spend the money to get Allen. Exactly, it doesn't cost anything to talk about something, but it does when the pen hits the paper, that is way more than Ralphy Boy is going to spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I'm sure there are better candidates out there - but hey I'm at least glad someone who knows football is linked to the organization. Guess that means Chucky jumps to the front of the line: http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/1020184...-every-NFL-game "Buffalo: His players sang happy birthday to Dick Jauron on Wednesday, but that figures to be the last such celebration in Buffalo. The no-huddle offense hasn't been working, and Jauron was one of three head coaches who dumped his offensive coordinator during the preseason. Former Tampa Bay GM Bruce Allen's name has popped up with the Bills, but he may have other offers at the end of the season." That is perhaps one of the smartest things I have heard come out of OBD since Polian left. Would that not be a sigh of relief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 tired of always hearing this. you really have never have watched the dang kid play. Hell just last week against Arkansas (not Superman's best game) he launched a 55 yd BOMB for a TD. Sick of people talking about how he doesn't have arm strength. Watch a game and get a clue. I've seen 25 or so Florida games with Tebow in the line-up and I stand by exactly what I posted already. He doesn't have adequate arm strength which is needed in a starting QB for the Bills for obvious reasons, he isn't consistently accurate which would have him turning the ball over too much, and I don't think I've seen the guy throw a tight spiral ever. All of his passes seem to waddle out of his hand. Tebow is a gamer no doubt, but in college. College football is built where kids with his desire can succeed, albeit in the right system. Enter Urban Meyer, the guy who runs the perfect style of offense for Tebow's skillset. He would get killed in the NFL in that offense. Like I said, just ask the 49ers about another impressive Urban Meyer system QB named Alex Smith. Also, Pennington used to throw bombs to Moss all day long at Marshall. Does that make Chadwick a "strong armed QB"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heels20X6 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Never question Bruce Dickinson At this point, I'm willing to let Angie Dickinson be the GM.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 It's sad we're celebrating someone, anyone with actual personnel experience. Certainly Bruce Allen would be an improvement, but TB's drafts weren't spectacular. For the Bills to succeed they need someone who hits on first rounders every year. And, they should get talent from the 2nd through 4th rounds. Still, it's very possible that RW hires a HC to appease the fans and doesn't rework the front office. This team needs someone to oversee pro and amateur scouting who knows and is experienced in personnel. I'd like to see other candidates, but Allen wouldn't be totally bad. Actually, I could live with that IF they brought in a proven HC that knows what type of players he needs/wants. It appears our current HC has significant pull in the draft room; hence, all the DBs. So, it would stand to reason that a new HC would have similar pull. If the new guy understands what it takes to win in the NFL and puts an emphasis on the lines, it may not be as bad as its been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Whats funny is that you discredit him for winning the Super Bowl because he inherited the "already favorite" to win but you didnt give him any credit for his competition in that game. It works both ways. If your saying Dungy should get credit for putting that Super Bowl team together then you have to give Gruden credit for putting the Raiders Super Bowl team together. At that point one can argue that Gruden won because he was the better coach. He would be 100 times better than what we have now. How many Playoff games does Jauron have on his record? Now ask yourself how many Gruden has. The facts are that Gruden has taken multiple teams to multiple playoff games. He was also the QB coach in Green Bay during the Holmgren years. I would say he did pretty well there too. The reason I didnt talk about Oakland was because of someones direct comments on his time in TB, which is why I kept it to TB. Look, honestly, I would take Gruden any day over DJ at this point, if for nothing else, the attitude. But having played football I know how bad it is to have your players not trust you. You could be Lombardi himself, but if your players dont trust you then you wont win, and its been well documented that he was fired because his players didnt trust him in TB. That is what concerns me the most. Gruden did have a good run in Oakland, but for me, his time in TB was poor during the 6 years after the SB. He had just one really good season in 7 years, and that was the year more than 90% of the team was the team he inherited and he won the SB. In six years he had back to back winning seasons once and only made playoffs twice (both times as a team that posed no threat to make a good run in playoffs). And, its hard, and I mean pretty hard, for a coach to lose the trust of his team, especially one with a SB ring and a mystique like Gruden. To me, that says far more than a SB ring he won given how he won it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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