You gotta love the flutie magic

[San Jose Bills Fan]

So basically the argument against Flutie has boiled down to this:

 

"I don't like his personality...he divided the team."

 

Well, I couldn't care less what his personality was. It's a results based business. Just win the damn games. I don't care how or how it looks.

 

It's interesting that he "divided the team" to their last two playoff appearances. And please don't start up with the tired old "they were a great defensive team'' arguments. The test case of the other quarterback with the same team blows that argument up completely.

 

Finally if there was even a partial argument that he helped save the franchise, then everyone on this board should pay a debt of gratitude to this guy, even if "we don't like his personality." (to be spoken in a whiny, snivelling little B word voice)

 

But the argument for him saving this franchise is not partial. It's very !@#$ing compelling. Correlate the wins to the ticket sales from week 5 of the 1998 season forward. It's as easy as that.

 

I don't like his personality. He divided the team. Jesus !@#$ing Christ.

 

The title of this thread is "You gotta love the Flutie magic..." Thanks to all the haters out there. Love the negativity and hatred.

[thebandit27]

Ummm...we're talking about an article by a grown man who calls himself "Bucky" and - in his own Walter-Mitty-like mind - fantasizes that he would be a better GM than Darcy Regier.

 

In other words, you can pretty much dismiss anything the idiot says.

 

C'mon Senator, you know better than that.

 

You think the guy just shoots from the hip on that kind of story?

[Gordio]

You want to kiss his little Flutie, don't you? You LOVE him.

 

I know it's tough when the truth about one of your early crushes comes to light. You can't believe he was such a bad guy.

 

"I could have changed him!", you cry, as others relate their stories of abuse.

 

Dean, come on your better then this. I am not saying that Flutie was the saint that alot of the flutie maniacs thought he was but this article by Gleason was totally unprofessional. Notice, he did not quote one player or anybody associated with the Bills about Flutie's act. He loses all credibility with this article by stating "you better warm up to Johnson because he is going to be around here for awhile". Yeah, 3 months after this article was written he was cut from the bills. This article makes it sound like he had a personal vendetta against the flute. Once again no sources were quoted in this article. So if you want to believe everything Bucky Gleason writes be my guess. My thoughts are the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

 

I am not saying they should of kept flutie, as his stint in sd showed he was pretty much shot at that point. But this myth that RJ was this beloved player in the lockerroom is laughable. It is the same myth that fans today think that Losman was this loveable teammate in the lockerroom, when I have stated before that I have several sources inside the Bills that have told me alot of the players could not stand Losman & were happy the day the bills sent him packing. I do not really carew if you believe this but these friends I know have no reason to lie to me.

 

In the end, TD did make a mistake by chosing RJ over Flutie, when in fact he should of kicked them both to the curb.

[thebandit27]

So basically the argument against Flutie has boiled down to this:

 

"I don't like his personality...he divided the team."

 

Well, I couldn't care less what his personality was. It's a results based business. Just win the damn games. I don't care how or how it looks.

 

It's interesting that he "divided the team" to their last two playoff appearances. And please don't start up with the tired old "they were a great defensive team'' arguments. The test case of the other quarterback with the same team blows that argument up completely.

 

Finally if there was even a partial argument that he helped save the franchise, then everyone on this board should pay a debt of gratitude to this guy, even if "we don't like his personality." (to be spoken in a whiny, snivelling little B word voice)

 

But the argument for him saving this franchise is not partial. It's very !@#$ing compelling. Correlate the wins to the ticket sales from week 5 of the 1998 season forward. It's as easy as that.

 

The title of this thread is "You gotta love the Flutie magic..." Thanks to all the haters out there. Love the negativity and hatred.

 

I don't like his personality. He divided the team. Jesus !@#$ing Christ.

 

Actually, San Jose, it's boiled down to 2 things, just as I said a page-and-a-half ago:

 

1) he wasn't a very good player

2) he wasn't a very good teammate

 

(wow, this is starting to sound like a jason peters debate)

 

you're right, the argument is NOT partial; he didn't "save the franchise". the TEAM sold seats because the TEAM won games. he just happened to be the QB at the time. you can't make me believe that any average QB (which all discernable stats, including W-L record, would indicate that flutie was) better than Rob Johnson couldn't have done the same thing and thus--by yours and others' line of reasoning--"saved the franchise".

 

how about this: sam cowart was the best defender on the field during the '98 season, and the team won games when he played at a pro bowl level, and thus sold the necessary suite tickets to make the $3M and renew the stadium lease, thus sam cowart "saved the franchise".

 

makes just as much sense.

 

yes, the fact that the team was great defensively, whether you or anyone else wants to admit it, makes a HUGE difference in whether or not the team wins games. case-and-point: the last time Buffalo's defense ranked in the top half of the league for the season, the team went 9-7 and was one win away from making the playoffs. granted, the QB can't be a complete waste of life (see: Johnson, Rob) or the team won't win games, but get a guy in there that won't lose it for you, and will occasionally make some plays (see: run a bootleg on the final play of a game to reach a whopping 17 points) and the team might win 10 games and lose in the first round of the playoffs.

 

this incredibly long and useless debate should show you that there are plenty of bills fans that didn't like flutie and still bought tickets. are we not resposible for "saving the franchise" as well?

 

how are those of us that don't like flutie "haters"? how does that make any sense at all? i showed up and cheered, paid my money, supported the team, etc. for every game the guy played. why? because I love the TEAM, not the QB. even though you'd like to dismiss it, folks like me are entitled to our opinions, and i figured that since this item was posted on a message board, it was open for discussion. silly me, guess that makes me a "hater". forgive me if i ask my QB to perform better than average and not act like a 3-year old that didn't get his way in the locker room. ridiculous stuff, i know.

 

this entire thread has grown from a discussion that centered around the man's highly-debatable on-field performance into a ridiculous pissing match between those that see things one way and those that see things another, and i am personally done discussing my position. the guy had plenty of chances in the nfl and never got the job done. his best years came when he had a top-tier defense to rely on. bad benching or not, he had his chances, and flutie-lovers seem to want to ignore that because he was better than rob johnson, alex van pelt, todd collins, jp losman, etc. etc.

 

move on guys, move on.

[The Senator]

C'mon Senator, you know better than that.

 

You think the guy just shoots from the hip on that kind of story?

I stand by my statement. 'Bucky' is an idiot of the highest order, surpassed - possibly - by only Jerry Sullivan, and Mike Schopp.

 

BTW, I'm not the only one who thinks this...

 

link

 

link2

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Bandit,

 

The extension of the lease was predicated on the sale of luxury seating, suites and club seating. Those were not selling as of week 5. They did not start selling until week 6. I was at the Rams game in week 3. The mood was like a funeral. The body had gone cold. Hopelessness was in abundance. Doctors could not find a pulse.

 

Then the team started winning. There was a buzz around the team for the first time in years and businesses started "backing the Bills." It was like a runaway train. Everyone was happy. If there was an undercurrent of resentment towards Flutie at that time I would ask why? If the Bills are winning isn't that all that matters?

 

I don't care if it was Alex Van Pelt or Matt Kofler. It was Flutie after someone else couldn't get the job done. I am eternally grateful and anyways, have nothing to gain by hating someone I don't know and denigrating his contributions.

 

Again this was a thread to celebrate his contributions. It has been crashed by haters. Tell me I'm wrong.

[thebandit27]

I stand by my statement. 'Bucky' is an idiot of the highest order, surpassed - possibly - by only Jerry Sullivan, and Mike Schopp.

 

BTW, I'm not the only one who thinks this...

 

link

 

link2

 

Yes, I understand that others (i.e. that guy that won't put his name on the piece of writing ripping another man, which Bucky at least had the kohones [sp?] to do) may agree with you on Bucky, but I fail to see how holding the guy in charge of the organization accountable for the team's performance is Bucky being an idiot of the highest order.

[The Dean]

I stand by my statement. 'Bucky' is an idiot of the highest order, surpassed - possibly - by only Jerry Sullivan, and Mike Schopp.

 

BTW, I'm not the only one who thinks this...

 

link

 

link2

 

 

Even an idiot can be right, on occasion. Look at me, for example.

 

Bucky may have been unprofessional here, but he is not saying anything those close to the team at the time don't say in private. Flutie was a divisive egomaniac of the highest order and cared about himself, not the team.

 

In one thread, you bash Peters. saying if he was great multiple teams would have traded top picks to the Bills, and been willing to pay him top LT dollar. OTOH, the fact that multiple NFL teams relegated Flutie to backup status, and his inability to stay with any team for more than a cup or two of coffee, goes unnoticed.

[thebandit27]

Bandit,

 

The extension of the lease was predicated on the sale of luxury seating, suites and club seating. Those were not selling as of week 5. They did not start selling until week 6. I was at the Rams game in week 3. The mood was like a funeral. The body had gone cold. Hopelessness was in abundance. Doctors could not find a pulse.

 

Then the team started winning. There was a buzz around the team for the first time in years and businesses started "backing the Bills." It was like a runaway train. Everyone was happy. If there was an undercurrent of resentment towards Flutie at that time I would ask why? If the Bills are winning isn't that all that matters?

 

I don't care if it was Alex Van Pelt or Matt Kofler. It was Flutie after someone else couldn't get the job done. I am eternally grateful and anyways, have nothing to gain by hating someone I don't know and denigrating his contributions.

 

Again this was a thread to celebrate his contributions. It has been crashed by haters. Tell me I'm wrong.

 

Let's take a look at the original post:

 

my second favorite QB of all time. benching a guy with this much heart is why the football gods have been angry with the bills.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlig...QBs-Doug-Flutie

 

p.s sorry if the link has been posted, i couldn't see it on the wall.

 

the bolded section sure looks to me like this thread was opened to debate the merits of the player and ALL of his contributions to the team (not just the positive ones).

 

i was also at the week 3 game and i remember the overall feeling being pretty positive for much of the afternoon. i mean, it did kind of drive me crazy that ted cottrell played that soft prevent defense that let the immortal tony banks throw 12-yard completions underneath the coverage for the final 2 drives that allowed st. louis back in the game, but overall i left the game thinking that things weren't all that bad. like him or not (and again, much like last year's edwards-losman stuff, i didn't like either johnson or flutie), johnson did look very good that game (18-28, 231 yds, 3 tds, 64.3 % comp, 110.9 QB rat.) and Buffalo should've won. it certainly wasn't anywhere near the moods i've seen leaving the stadium after the home opener vs. denver in 2007, the dallas monday nighter, the cleveland monday nighter, the new england homer last december, etc. to chalk up the "saving the franchise" point to your perception of the fans' collective mood after a game 11 years ago is pretty subjective, wouldn't you say?

[Gordio]

Let's take a look at the original post:

 

my second favorite QB of all time. benching a guy with this much heart is why the football gods have been angry with the bills.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlig...QBs-Doug-Flutie

 

p.s sorry if the link has been posted, i couldn't see it on the wall.

 

the bolded section sure looks to me like this thread was opened to debate the merits of the player and ALL of his contributions to the team (not just the positive ones).

 

i was also at the week 3 game and i remember the overall feeling being pretty positive for much of the afternoon. i mean, it did kind of drive me crazy that ted cottrell played that soft prevent defense that let the immortal tony banks throw 12-yard completions underneath the coverage for the final 2 drives that allowed st. louis back in the game, but overall i left the game thinking that things weren't all that bad. like him or not (and again, much like last year's edwards-losman stuff, i didn't like either johnson or flutie), johnson did look very good that game (18-28, 231 yds, 3 tds, 64.3 % comp, 110.9 QB rat.) and Buffalo should've won. it certainly wasn't anywhere near the moods i've seen leaving the stadium after the home opener vs. denver in 2007, the dallas monday nighter, the cleveland monday nighter, the new england homer last december, etc. to chalk up the "saving the franchise" point to your perception of the fans' collective mood after a game 11 years ago is pretty subjective, wouldn't you say?

 

 

You know bandit, they did not sell that game out. The actual attendance was 65K that day. Considering that the Ralph's capacity at the time was 80K & that it was the home opener & it was a beautifull day out the attendance figure for that game says all you need to know about the fan's mood of the franchise at that particular time imho.

[Lori]

i was also at the week 3 game and i remember the overall feeling being pretty positive for much of the afternoon. i mean, it did kind of drive me crazy that ted cottrell played that soft prevent defense that let the immortal tony banks throw 12-yard completions underneath the coverage for the final 2 drives that allowed st. louis back in the game, but overall i left the game thinking that things weren't all that bad. like him or not (and again, much like last year's edwards-losman stuff, i didn't like either johnson or flutie), johnson did look very good that game (18-28, 231 yds, 3 tds, 64.3 % comp, 110.9 QB rat.) and Buffalo should've won. it certainly wasn't anywhere near the moods i've seen leaving the stadium after the home opener vs. denver in 2007, the dallas monday nighter, the cleveland monday nighter, the new england homer last december, etc. to chalk up the "saving the franchise" point to your perception of the fans' collective mood after a game 11 years ago is pretty subjective, wouldn't you say?

As I recall, the Bills were pretty much kicking ass in that game. Wasn't it 28-10 at one point? I was ticked off (and more than a little shellshocked) walking out of the stadium that day, but it certainly wasn't because of the Bills offense.

[Gordio]

As I recall, the Bills were pretty much kicking ass in that game. Wasn't it 28-10 at one point? I was ticked off (and more than a little shellshocked) walking out of the stadium that day, but it certainly wasn't because of the Bills offense.

 

 

It was one of those games where the bills were well on their way to victory, me & my friends really started boozing it up in the stadium not paying attention to the game & the next thing you know Tony banks is running in the endzone for the go ahead td with less then a minute left.

[thebandit27]

As I recall, the Bills were pretty much kicking ass in that game. Wasn't it 28-10 at one point? I was ticked off (and more than a little shellshocked) walking out of the stadium that day, but it certainly wasn't because of the Bills offense.

 

correct.

 

incidentally, the famous 5-game "franchise-saving" winning streak started the next game (2 weeks later b/c of a bye) vs. steve young and the 49ers, a game in which a bills-QB-not-named-flutie went 19-27 (70.4 %), 254 yds, 1 TD, 0 int, and a QB rating of 112.3. But according to all the flutie-lovers, he started the winning streak all by himself.

 

again, i'm not touting johnson here, but let's all be honest about what level of player flutie was and why the team was winning. it wasn't all or even mostly him. look at the numbers objectively.

[C.Biscuit97]

correct.

 

incidentally, the famous 5-game "franchise-saving" winning streak started the next game (2 weeks later b/c of a bye) vs. steve young and the 49ers, a game in which a bills-QB-not-named-flutie went 19-27 (70.4 %), 254 yds, 1 TD, 0 int, and a QB rating of 112.3. But according to all the flutie-lovers, he started the winning streak all by himself.

 

again, i'm not touting johnson here, but let's all be honest about what level of player flutie was and why the team was winning. it wasn't all or even mostly him. look at the numbers objectively.

 

 

I guess the Pro Bowl voters and people who voted for the Comeback Player of the Year must have been blinded by Flutie Magic as well.

 

RJ's claim to fame is being the most sacked QB per dropback in NFL history. Flutie is our most successful QB since Kelly and I really don't understand why that is so hard for people to accept.

[VOR]

i was also at the week 3 game and i remember the overall feeling being pretty positive for much of the afternoon. i mean, it did kind of drive me crazy that ted cottrell played that soft prevent defense that let the immortal tony banks throw 12-yard completions underneath the coverage for the final 2 drives that allowed st. louis back in the game, but overall i left the game thinking that things weren't all that bad. like him or not (and again, much like last year's edwards-losman stuff, i didn't like either johnson or flutie), johnson did look very good that game (18-28, 231 yds, 3 tds, 64.3 % comp, 110.9 QB rat.) and Buffalo should've won. it certainly wasn't anywhere near the moods i've seen leaving the stadium after the home opener vs. denver in 2007, the dallas monday nighter, the cleveland monday nighter, the new england homer last december, etc. to chalk up the "saving the franchise" point to your perception of the fans' collective mood after a game 11 years ago is pretty subjective, wouldn't you say?

Yep. Flutie played most of the Chargers opening-day game, and took over in the Rams game when the Bills had the lead. He didn't "just win" in those games. And as was mentioned, the Bills' first win came in the 4th game of the season, against the 49'ers, with RJ at the helm.

[The_Philster]

I guess the Pro Bowl voters and people who voted for the Comeback Player of the Year must have been blinded by Flutie Magic as well.

 

RJ's claim to fame is being the most sacked QB per dropback in NFL history. Flutie is our most successful QB since Kelly and I really don't understand why that is so hard for people to accept.

For one thing, he did play well in 98....but anyone who remotely understands the game of football can see he stunk for a good portion of 99.

As far as Flutie being successful, for one thing...consider the competition. For another, we had the top defense in the league in 99

[The Senator]

Bucky may have been unprofessional here, but he is not saying anything those close to the team at the time don't say in private. Flutie was a divisive egomaniac of the highest order and cared about himself, not the team.

And you know this, because..... ?

 

In one thread, you bash Peters. saying if he was great multiple teams would have traded top picks to the Bills, and been willing to pay him top LT dollar.

Not exactly - I said that apparently most of the NFL front office-types were apparently completely 'in the dark' regarding the greatness that was so obvious to a handful of TSW posters.

 

OTOH, the fact that multiple NFL teams relegated Flutie to backup status, and his inability to stay with any team for more than a cup or two of coffee, goes unnoticed.

"His inability to stay with any team for more than a cup or two of coffee" seems a bit hyperbolic, and one could argue that his playing in 3 professional football leagues over a 21-year career accounts for that.

 

1985 New Jersey Generals

1986 Chicago Bears

1987 Chicago Bears

1987 New England Patriots

1988 New England Patriots

1989 New England Patriots

1990 British Columbia Lions

1991 British Columbia Lions

1992 Calgary Stampeders

1993 Calgary Stampeders

1994 Calgary Stampeders

1995 Calgary Stampeders

1996 Toronto Argonauts

1997 Toronto Argonauts

1998 Buffalo Bills

1999 Buffalo Bills

2000 Buffalo Bills

2001 San Diego Chargers

2002 San Diego Chargers

2003 San Diego Chargers

2004 San Diego Chargers

2005 New England Patriots

 

* Pro Bowl selection (1998)

* 1984 Heisman Trophy

* 1984 Walter Camp Award

* 1984 Davey O'Brien Award

* 1984 Maxwell Award

* 1984 UPI Player of the Year

* 1998 NFL Comeback Player of the Year

* 3× Grey Cup champion

* 3× Grey Cup MVP (1992, 1996, 1997)

* 6× CFL's Most Outstanding Player (1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997)

* 1983 Liberty Bowl MVP

 

 

Yeah, he sucked.

[Mr. WEO]

LOL! That game was "humiliating" for TO...why? Because the Cowboys lost, thanks to Bledsoe shitting the bed and being just a few games away from getting benched, permanently? Hey, whatever made-up argument you can come up with, sport!

It was humiliating because it was the first game back in Philly since he was run out of town, it was just after his narcotic overdose (the fans were chanting "OD, OD"), he had three catches for 45 yards against a not so great Philly secondary.

 

It took as long as it did to count the number of postseason games that Garcia has appeared in since he left the 49'ers. And one of those seasons was in relief of McNabb with the Eagles, who were making the playoffs annually.

 

Yes, the Eagles were making the playoffs annually----until TO's sophomore season.

 

He's as gay as TO was suicidal. Speaking of which, only in your warped little mind is it a crime to call someone gay, but it's okay to make fun of a (alleged) suicide attempt. Amazing. But hey, that's what we've come to expect from you in your short and entertaining time with us.

 

You miss the point. It's not like Garcia was caught in a closet patting down another man. TO just outed him because he had the opportunity to do so, to be cruel, not because he may actually be gay. Conversely, TO actually OD'd and it was initially reported as a possible suicide attempt. The typical PR circus that followed was classic TO drama.

 

 

But yeah, you're right. Garcia putting up good numbers by throwing to HOF WR's was all about him. While TO's been chugging along since parting ways with Garcia. Oh and Garcia is on his FIFTH team post-49'ers, which is two better (or worse) than TO, for those keeping score at home. Is it because he's a cancer, he sucks, or he's "been relegated to the back of the bus?"

And don't make me laugh comparing Garcia to Kelly, Mr. "Bills fan." But let me ask: give me the list of people you think might be presenting Garcia at his HOF induction? What, you're done already?

 

Look, you said Garcia was a "fraud". No facts to back it up. I pointed out that his numbers in SF, with TO, were pretty solid, in fact very similar to Kelly's best stretch (on a much better team). Garcia's performance after SF does not negate his results while he was there. In fact, he and TO were very good for eachother and TO has not doen better with another QB ever. You and TO cannot acknowledge this. Instead, you reach for the "some fan you are for questioning the greatness of Jim Kelly" noodle. Well played!

 

The "second year starting QB?" LOL! If Trent, who will be a 3rd year player and who has started 23 games in his 2 years in the league, can't put up a decent showing with TO, Evans, Reed, Lynch, Jackson, Fine, and Nelson, he's toast no matter what, get it?

 

Even you can do the math here--he is entering his second season as the starter, not the backup who keeps coming in for the poorly playing or injured 1st round bust who is out of the league. And while the WR are top notch, you're stretching it more than a bit by mentioning Fine and Nelson, who have yet to do anything in the league.

 

True, I have a long way to go to match your "Flutie and Jeff Garcia are gods" campaign.

 

See, this is what you do--you are fighting an army of straw men (I never even insinuated that either of those QBs was a "god", HOF caliber, or even great). You just made that up because you can't keep up. You say things like "Garcia was a fraud", "Flutie was as big a self promoter as TO" (or "the cops falsified the police report"--another gem), yet you simply can't back this up. Instead you say that all of the evidence of TO-like Flutie behavior disappeared before it could be documented in the internet! Now you glom onto this rant by some hometown hockey hack, which quotes no one, not even anonymously, and attributes nothing---all after Flutie has left town.

 

 

If you want to bash the best QB the Bills have had since Kelly (and he was, regardless of what he did before or after the Bills), then go ahead, Superfan. Make your people proud.

[thebandit27]

I guess the Pro Bowl voters and people who voted for the Comeback Player of the Year must have been blinded by Flutie Magic as well.

 

RJ's claim to fame is being the most sacked QB per dropback in NFL history. Flutie is our most successful QB since Kelly and I really don't understand why that is so hard for people to accept.

 

why do people keep thinking this thread has anything to do with johnson? stop going back to johnson. this thread is about flutie, not johnson. one more time: this thread is about flutie, not johnson. we know flutie was better than johnson. ok?

 

so your response to my assertion that flutie fans should "be objective and look at the numbers" about him is to say that he made the pro bowl and was voted comeback player of the year? nice analysis.

[thebandit27]

And you know this, because..... ?

 

 

Not exactly - I said that apparently most of the NFL front office-types were apparently completely 'in the dark' regarding the greatness that was so obvious to a handful of TSW posters.

 

 

"His inability to stay with any team for more than a cup or two of coffee" seems a bit hyperbolic, and one could argue that his playing in 3 professional football leagues over a 21-year career accounts for that.

 

1985 New Jersey Generals

1986 Chicago Bears

1987 Chicago Bears

1987 New England Patriots

1988 New England Patriots

1989 New England Patriots

1990 British Columbia Lions

1991 British Columbia Lions

1992 Calgary Stampeders

1993 Calgary Stampeders

1994 Calgary Stampeders

1995 Calgary Stampeders

1996 Toronto Argonauts

1997 Toronto Argonauts

1998 Buffalo Bills

1999 Buffalo Bills

2000 Buffalo Bills

2001 San Diego Chargers

2002 San Diego Chargers

2003 San Diego Chargers

2004 San Diego Chargers

2005 New England Patriots

 

* Pro Bowl selection (1998)

* 1984 Heisman Trophy

* 1984 Walter Camp Award

* 1984 Davey O'Brien Award

* 1984 Maxwell Award

* 1984 UPI Player of the Year

* 1998 NFL Comeback Player of the Year

* 3× Grey Cup champion

* 3× Grey Cup MVP (1992, 1996, 1997)

* 6× CFL's Most Outstanding Player (1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997)

* 1983 Liberty Bowl MVP

 

 

Yeah, he sucked.

 

so those college and canadian football awards (along with a selection to an even that equates to--as you say--a giant popolarity contest in 1998) are supposed to mean that he was a good NFL QB? sorry senator, still not buying it.

[Steely Dan]

Since it is unavailable anywhere on the net I've copied and pasted it;

 

______________

By BUCKY GLEASON

10/25/01

 

 

So, you're a Doug Flutie fan? It's OK. You're hardly alone in this town.

In fact, it has come to my attention that some of you will be rooting for

the San Diego Chargers this weekend solely because the cuddly little

fellow now wears a different shade of blue. Hey, it's your choice.

 

 

But before you change your allegiance for a week, you might want to know a

few things about the Flutester. For one, he's a phony. He had half of

Western New York, most of Canada and parts of New England snowed into

thinking he was such a great guy when the Bills for years were quietly

laughing while watching his little act.

 

 

Such transparent personalities aren't usually embraced in this town, but

this was a charade for the ages. Flutie had two performances working - the

one he played for the public and the off-Broadway persona reserved for

behind closed doors. We're talking two totally different dudes. You like

the one you see. You wouldn't like the one they know.

 

 

See, Flutie was a selfish, egotistical, conniving, manipulative, shrewd

individualist who did almost anything to make sure he came out looking

better than his former teammate, Rob Johnson, in their battle to run the

offense.

 

 

Did I forget insecure? Yep, Flutie worried that he would never get his

opportunity to quiet lifelong skeptics, so he worked behind the scenes

against Johnson. The word "backstabber" has been tossed around frequently

in Bills' circles to describe Flutie since he left town. Predictably, he

was a model for diplomacy when speaking to the media Wednesday.

 

 

When Johnson was injured he did everything asked to help Flutie get ready

for the next opponent, but it didn't take long for him to realize the

favor wouldn't be returned. How sophomoric did Flutie become? Well, even

when Johnson played well and the Bills won, Flutie told his teammates he

would have done a much better job, that he should have been the

quarterback, that he would have avoided more sacks, that the Bills would

have won by more had he been given the reins. And once his tiresome tirade

was over, he would ask his listeners, "Don't you think?"

 

 

What you don't know is that Johnson approached Flutie several times last

year, long before the story in Sports Illustrated and the interview with

Jim Rome outlined their genuine disdain for each other, and asked him why

he was mouthing off behind his back. Johnson was attempting to handle

things privately, like a professional. Flutie, of course, denied

everything, like an amateur. It didn't matter. Johnson knew the score

because his teammates kept telling him.

 

 

Johnson's dilemma wasn't about quarterbacking but battery. He debated

whether to simply punch out Flutie or keep quiet. Oh, he wanted Flutie in

a small room with the lights off for a woodshed special, but he

reconsidered because he thought it would have been disruptive - to the

Bills. Really, I'm not making this up.

 

 

Together, they stewed in silence. And I mean silence.

 

 

Last year, when the Bills held their quarterback meetings in preparation

for the next opponent, there usually were two people talking and neither

was named Doug or Rob. Instead, bench warmer Alex Van Pelt reviewed the

game plan with offensive coordinator Joe Pendry. Johnson threw in his two

cents every so often. Flutie threw in three cents just to be sure. But

they said nothing to each other.

 

 

What you don't know is that Flutie loved signing autographs in public but

privately complained about the exercise. He was a go-to guy in training

camp because he understood the importance of a good first impression. Give

him credit, he's an engaging man the first few times you meet him.

Grandmas and kids love the guy. People adore the underdog, and he plays

the role better than anyone in recent memory. And to him, all those people

lining up weren't Bills fans as much as they were Flutie fans. Behind the

scenes, say, on a Tuesday with nobody around, Flutie whined about such

inconveniences. After awhile, the Bills dreaded asking him to sign. He'll

deny it to the day he's dead, but it's the truth.

 

 

What you don't know is that Johnson volunteered his services to the Bills'

marketing staff. In fact, he has ordered the community relations people to

keep quiet about his charities, such as the time he spends in Children's

Hospital and his work with Habitat for Humanity, among others. He wanted

his off-field work reserved for his private life, away from the cameras

and commercials. He wanted to be known in these parts as a quarterback,

not a humanitarian.

 

 

Flutie was known as a winner, Johnson a fragile outcast. So why has Flutie

played for eight professional teams since he threw the Hail Mary? Because

Flutie's charm runs only so long before people discover the facade. Teams

aren't far behind.

 

 

Anyway, when it's all added up, the Bills' defense did more for the team's

success than anything Flutie accomplished. He has a better team wrapped

around him now, too. We'll see what happens when the Chargers play

Oakland, Denver and Seattle the second time around.

 

 

You might want to start supporting Johnson because he's not going anywhere

for a while. Since the first preseason game, he has played a grand total

of three plays behind the starting offensive line. Granted, he's no Steve

Young, but he's improving. Fans are giving him less time for success than

he's had in the pocket.

 

 

And that brings us to Bills President and General Manager Tom Donahoe, who

really didn't have a difficult decision about whether he would retain

Flutie or Johnson. Flutie had three offseason meetings with Donahoe and

the coaching staff before the Bills made their choice. Flutie, after

complaining about the process to others, made sure to say their West Coast

offense had better fit his style because he wasn't changing. Flutie told

them straight out, "I'm going to play my way." They were floored.

 

 

Johnson, on the other hand, asked how he could help the team. West Coast?

East Coast? They could have said Gulf Coast, and he would have agreed if

it meant helping the Bills win. Johnson, supposedly a California beach

bum, even asked his bosses whether they wanted him to stay in Western New

York through the winter so he could work on the new attack. They were

floored.

 

 

And when the interviews were completed, the Bills needed about 11 seconds

to realize it wasn't a Flutie-Johnson issue at all. It was Johnson or

someone else.

 

 

See, what Flutie never understood was that public perception didn't always

equate to absolute truth. He apparently didn't realize the Bills would be

talking to everyone from the backup center to the maintenance man at The

Ralph. He didn't realize how many people he insulted when he was here.

It's hardly surprising.

 

 

Doug Flutie was always about one thing. Doug Flutie.

 

 

And you know this, because..... ?

 

See above article.

 

 

Not exactly - I said that apparently most of the NFL front office-types were apparently completely 'in the dark' regarding the greatness that was so obvious to a handful of TSW posters.

 

 

"His inability to stay with any team for more than a cup or two of coffee" seems a bit hyperbolic, and one could argue that his playing in 3 professional football leagues over a 21-year career accounts for that.

 

1985 New Jersey Generals

1986 Chicago Bears

1987 Chicago Bears

1987 New England Patriots

1988 New England Patriots

1989 New England Patriots

1990 British Columbia Lions

1991 British Columbia Lions

1992 Calgary Stampeders

1993 Calgary Stampeders

1994 Calgary Stampeders

1995 Calgary Stampeders

1996 Toronto Argonauts

1997 Toronto Argonauts

1998 Buffalo Bills

1999 Buffalo Bills

2000 Buffalo Bills

2001 San Diego Chargers

2002 San Diego Chargers

2003 San Diego Chargers

2004 San Diego Chargers

2005 New England Patriots

 

* Pro Bowl selection (1998)

* 1984 Heisman Trophy

* 1984 Walter Camp Award

* 1984 Davey O'Brien Award

* 1984 Maxwell Award

* 1984 UPI Player of the Year

* 1985 Pee wee league MVP runner up.

* 1986 Little person of the year award

* 1987 Pop Warner spirit award recipient

* 1988 Grandma's favorite little tyke of the year.

* 1989 Doogie the dog's favorite ass to lick award

* 1990 King of the sandbox award

* 1998 NFL Comeback Player of the Year

* 3× Grey Cup champion

* 3× Grey Cup MVP (1992, 1996, 1997)

* 6× CFL's Most Outstanding Player (1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997)

* 1983 Liberty Bowl MVP

 

 

Yeah, he sucked.

 

Missed a few. Fixed!

[Randolph Duke]

Flutie messiah

Mullet flowing in the breeze

The People's Q.B.

[reddogblitz]

correct.

 

incidentally, the famous 5-game "franchise-saving" winning streak started the next game (2 weeks later b/c of a bye) vs. steve young and the 49ers, a game in which a bills-QB-not-named-flutie went 19-27 (70.4 %), 254 yds, 1 TD, 0 int, and a QB rating of 112.3. But according to all the flutie-lovers, he started the winning streak all by himself.

 

again, i'm not touting johnson here, but let's all be honest about what level of player flutie was and why the team was winning. it wasn't all or even mostly him. look at the numbers objectively.

 

I was at this game and Johnson played GREAT. What happened to him? After a while it got to where he was so predictable. He'd roll out to the right and hang on to the ball and then either get sacked, run out of bounds, or throw it away at the last second. The Bills were like 0-3 and the 49ers were 4-0 or something coming into thsi game. My wife and her cousin were in the parking lot before the game saying where do we meet up at half time if the Bills are getting blowed out? I asked them what are we going to do if the Bills do the blowing out? They laughed.

 

Here he seemed to be a very adequate QB who should be able to win with a great defense. How come he didn't except in this one game and Flutie could the rest of the season? That's what you need to objectively ask yourself.

[reddogblitz]

See above article.

 

 

 

 

Missed a few. Fixed!

 

You also forgot 1986 America's Favorite Midget

[The Senator]

See above article.

see article below...

 

link

 

"Bucky" is an idiot.

[Steely Dan]

see article below...

 

link

 

"Bucky" is an idiot.

 

The site should be called; "Top Shelf; Where Doug Can't Reach The Cookies"

 

So BG has some detractors. Since he came down hard on Flutie it's not surprising.

[thebandit27]

I was at this game and Johnson played GREAT. What happened to him? After a while it got to where he was so predictable. He'd roll out to the right and hang on to the ball and then either get sacked, run out of bounds, or throw it away at the last second. The Bills were like 0-3 and the 49ers were 4-0 or something coming into thsi game. My wife and her cousin were in the parking lot before the game saying where do we meet up at half time if the Bills are getting blowed out? I asked them what are we going to do if the Bills do the blowing out? They laughed.

 

Here he seemed to be a very adequate QB who should be able to win with a great defense. How come he didn't except in this one game and Flutie could the rest of the season? That's what you need to objectively ask yourself.

 

Because Johnson was terrible, that's why.

 

For the last time, this is not a Rob Johnson discussion. Believe me, not all Flutie discussions have to end up at "he's better than Rob Johnson". This does not define someone as a good QB.

 

Kordell Stewart was better than Rob Johnson, that does not make him a good QB. Actually, now this has me curious...I wonder what the comparison between Kordell and Flutie looks like...

 

http://www.nfl.com/players/dougflutie/profile?id=FLU553722

http://www.nfl.com/players/kordellstewart/...le?id=STE777062

 

Eerily similar, except that Flutie more often threw for more TDs than INTs during the regular season, while Kordell had a better ratio during his best statistical season than Flutie. Also, let's keep in mind that Kordell took two teams to the AFC Championship game, and has more playoff starts and wins than Flutie.

 

Wow, this may spark an even better debate--who's better: Flutie or Stewart?

[Cynical]

see article below...

 

link

 

"Bucky" is an idiot.

 

Does Jim Trotter and Nick Canepa of the San Diego Union Tribune also qualify as 'idiots'?

 

By the end of the 2001 season, neither one of those guys were "enthralled" by Flutie either.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Bandit, here are three of your most recent posts in correct sequence. I've bolded the parts where you talk about Johnson. You keep admonishing people about bringing him up but you are as guilty as anyone.

 

(and again, much like last year's edwards-losman stuff, i didn't like either johnson or flutie), johnson did look very good that game (18-28, 231 yds, 3 tds, 64.3 % comp, 110.9 QB rat.) and Buffalo should've won. it certainly wasn't anywhere near the moods i've seen leaving the stadium after the home opener vs. denver in 2007, the dallas monday nighter, the cleveland monday nighter, the new england homer last december, etc. to chalk up the "saving the franchise" point to your perception of the fans' collective mood after a game 11 years ago is pretty subjective, wouldn't you say?

Furthermore, to refute your point that there wasn't a sense of pessimism surrounding the team in that week 3 game of 1998, it was brought up that the Rams game was the season opener on a picture perfect day and that there was only just over 65,000 in attendance. You never responded to this. Conceding the points of others is how you gain credibility.

 

correct.

 

incidentally, the famous 5-game "franchise-saving" winning streak started the next game (2 weeks later b/c of a bye) vs. steve young and the 49ers, a game in which a bills-QB-not-named-flutie went 19-27 (70.4 %), 254 yds, 1 TD, 0 int, and a QB rating of 112.3. But according to all the flutie-lovers, he started the winning streak all by himself.

 

again, i'm not touting johnson here, but let's all be honest about what level of player flutie was and why the team was winning. it wasn't all or even mostly him. look at the numbers objectively.

Again, you brought Johnson up for the 2nd post in a row while also citing his statistics.

 

I was at this game and Johnson played GREAT. What happened to him? After a while it got to where he was so predictable. He'd roll out to the right and hang on to the ball and then either get sacked, run out of bounds, or throw it away at the last second. The Bills were like 0-3 and the 49ers were 4-0 or something coming into thsi game. My wife and her cousin were in the parking lot before the game saying where do we meet up at half time if the Bills are getting blowed out? I asked them what are we going to do if the Bills do the blowing out? They laughed.

 

Here he seemed to be a very adequate QB who should be able to win with a great defense. How come he didn't except in this one game and Flutie could the rest of the season? That's what you need to objectively ask yourself.

 

Look. This post isn't evolving because people want to cycle back the same arguments from page 3. Can we start fresh?

 

I'm asking you Bandit, Flutie won when we needed wins. There was no other quarterback on the roster who could do this for us. According to Mark Gaughan's mailbag response to my question, he stated in the Bflo News that he gives Flutie and Erkie Kailbourne equal credit for saving the Bills. So can you concede at all that Flutie helped save the team when there was no one else on the roster who could? Yes/No please, no explanation necessary.

 

Also, can you explain to me why someone who contributed to two playoff appearances and possibly helped save the franchise when there was not another QB on the roster who could do this, should be treated with scorn and contempt?

 

I really need to understand this pathological negativity towards someone like Flutie who only helped us when he was here.

 

I understand the negativity towards Jason Peters but someone has to help me understand why a person who did what Flutie did is treated as some sort of villain, like he somehow wronged us.

 

Because of his personality????

[The Senator]

Does Jim Trotter and Nick Canepa of the San Diego Union Tribune also qualify as 'idiots'?

 

By the end of the 2001 season, neither one of those guys were "enthralled" by Flutie either.

Can't say - I'm not familiar with their body of work. Was it Flutie's supposed 'divisiveness' that bothered them, or the declining play of a 40 year-old QB in the twilight of his career?

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Flutie messiah

Mullet flowing in the breeze

The People's Q.B.

I like your haiku. Here's mine:

 

The Bills got much help.

From an unlikely source.

Throw him in the trash.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Franchise was dying.

Flutie steps in, tickets sell.

Two playoffs he was a bum.

[BuffaloPride]

Bandit, here are three of your most recent posts in correct sequence. I've bolded the parts where you talk about Johnson. You keep admonishing people about bringing him up but you are as guilty as anyone.

 

 

Furthermore, to refute your point that there wasn't a sense of pessimism surrounding the team in that week 3 game of 1998, it was brought up that the Rams game was the season opener on a picture perfect day and that there was only just over 65,000 in attendance. You never responded to this. Conceding the points of others is how you gain credibility.

 

 

Again, you brought Johnson up for the 2nd post in a row while also citing his statistics.

 

 

 

Look. This post isn't evolving because people want to cycle back the same arguments from page 3. Can we start fresh?

 

I'm asking you Bandit, Flutie won when we needed wins. There was no other quarterback on the roster who could do this for us. According to Mark Gaughan's mailbag response to my question, he stated in the Bflo News that he gives Flutie and Erkie Kailbourne equal credit for saving the Bills. So can you concede at all that Flutie helped save the team when there was no one else on the roster who could? Yes/No please, no explanation necessary.

 

Also, can you explain to me why someone who contributed to two playoff appearances and possibly helped save the franchise when there was not another QB on the roster who could do this, should be treated with scorn and contempt?

 

I really need to understand this pathological negativity towards someone like Flutie who only helped us when he was here.

 

I understand the negativity towards Jason Peters but someone has to help me understand why a person who did what Flutie did is treated as some sort of villain, like he somehow wronged us.

 

Because of his personality????

SJB, you continue to talk about everyting Flutie did for Buffalo but all you can come up with is that he saved the franchise. Look, I'll acknowledge that some fans bought tickets because of him, but the majority of fans , like myself, bought tickets because we love our team. You act as though this town owes him. Buffalo made him a rich man to the tune of 5 mil a season. And the good people of WNY lined up at supermarkets to purchase Flutie Flakes, flutie bars, and those faggy little Flutie bears. Doug Flutie prospered very well here in Buffalo. That said, "Ask not what Flutie did for Buffalo, ask what Buffalo did for Flutie."

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Help needed was found.

Bleeding stops playoffs are made.

Throw him 'neath the bus.

[The Senator]

Doug signed for peanuts

Promised a fair chance to start

"Never mind", said Wade.

[VOR]

It was humiliating because it was the first game back in Philly since he was run out of town, it was just after his narcotic overdose (the fans were chanting "OD, OD"), he had three catches for 45 yards against a not so great Philly secondary.

Yeah, and Bledsoe didn't look his way until the 2nd half. Which prompted Jerruh Jones to say ""I was surprised Terrell didn't have more catches. That was not our plan."

Yes, the Eagles were making the playoffs annually----until TO's sophomore season.

Good point. TO was suspended after the 7th game of that season, with the Eagles having a 4-3 record. Doing the math, there were 9 more games after that. And he was top-3 in catches, yards, and TD's for WR's in the NFL.

You miss the point. It's not like Garcia was caught in a closet patting down another man. TO just outed him because he had the opportunity to do so, to be cruel, not because he may actually be gay. Conversely, TO actually OD'd and it was initially reported as a possible suicide attempt. The typical PR circus that followed was classic TO drama.

I'm not missing any point. You said that TO tried to commit suicide. Then you started mocking him for it, or were you mocking "the drama?" What I find funny is that you'd do that, and then get your panties in a wad over TO over calling Garcia gay, which I admitted was wrong. And we don't know what TO stumbled on, given that he was teammates with Garcia for 5 years.

Look, you said Garcia was a "fraud". No facts to back it up. I pointed out that his numbers in SF, with TO, were pretty solid, in fact very similar to Kelly's best stretch (on a much better team). Garcia's performance after SF does not negate his results while he was there. In fact, he and TO were very good for eachother and TO has not doen better with another QB ever. You and TO cannot acknowledge this. Instead, you reach for the "some fan you are for questioning the greatness of Jim Kelly" noodle. Well played!

Of course you'll take the tack that all that matters is a QB's performance with one team, and everything after means nothing. That's the excuse you use for Flutie "just losing" with the Chargers. A great, or even a good QB, will win wherever he goes. Not to mention you've used the "TO is on his 3rd team..." thing several times.

Even you can do the math here--he is entering his second season as the starter, not the backup who keeps coming in for the poorly playing or injured 1st round bust who is out of the league. And while the WR are top notch, you're stretching it more than a bit by mentioning Fine and Nelson, who have yet to do anything in the league.

Trent started the 2nd half of the 2007 season, and was the starter going into last season. He's not merely a "2nd year starter." And Fine and Nelson won't be any worse than Royal. If Trent has a bad year and it's because of the TE's...

See, this is what you do--you are fighting an army of straw men (I never even insinuated that either of those QBs was a "god", HOF caliber, or even great). You just made that up because you can't keep up. You say things like "Garcia was a fraud", "Flutie was as big a self promoter as TO" (or "the cops falsified the police report"--another gem), yet you simply can't back this up. Instead you say that all of the evidence of TO-like Flutie behavior disappeared before it could be documented in the internet! Now you glom onto this rant by some hometown hockey hack, which quotes no one, not even anonymously, and attributes nothing---all after Flutie has left town.

 

If you want to bash the best QB the Bills have had since Kelly (and he was, regardless of what he did before or after the Bills), then go ahead, Superfan. Make your people proud.

Wow, "the best QB the Bills have had since Kelly?" Isn't that like Jauron being the best head coach since Phillips?

 

And the article by Gleason is what it is and proof of what I've been saying. But as is the case, you'll dismiss it because it destroys your belief.

[The Senator]

And the article by Gleason is what it is and proof of what I've been saying. But as is the case, you'll dismiss it because it destroys your belief.

Wow - 'Bucky's' opinion = proof??????

[thebandit27]

Bandit, here are three of your most recent posts in correct sequence. I've bolded the parts where you talk about Johnson. You keep admonishing people about bringing him up but you are as guilty as anyone.

 

 

Furthermore, to refute your point that there wasn't a sense of pessimism surrounding the team in that week 3 game of 1998, it was brought up that the Rams game was the season opener on a picture perfect day and that there was only just over 65,000 in attendance. You never responded to this. Conceding the points of others is how you gain credibility.

 

 

Again, you brought Johnson up for the 2nd post in a row while also citing his statistics.

 

 

 

Look. This post isn't evolving because people want to cycle back the same arguments from page 3. Can we start fresh?

 

I'm asking you Bandit, Flutie won when we needed wins. There was no other quarterback on the roster who could do this for us. According to Mark Gaughan's mailbag response to my question, he stated in the Bflo News that he gives Flutie and Erkie Kailbourne equal credit for saving the Bills. So can you concede at all that Flutie helped save the team when there was no one else on the roster who could? Yes/No please, no explanation necessary.

 

Also, can you explain to me why someone who contributed to two playoff appearances and possibly helped save the franchise when there was not another QB on the roster who could do this, should be treated with scorn and contempt?

 

I really need to understand this pathological negativity towards someone like Flutie who only helped us when he was here.

 

I understand the negativity towards Jason Peters but someone has to help me understand why a person who did what Flutie did is treated as some sort of villain, like he somehow wronged us.

 

Because of his personality????

 

here we go, one at a time:

 

- my mentioning of johnson was done moreso to point out that i remember fans responding positively to his play in those games (vs. st. louis and SF), which was a response to your assertion that people were feeling "doom and gloom" about the team. there was no intention to compare the two players, which--if you re-read my posts--is what i plead with the flutie-supporters to stop doing. also, my response to the third post you referenced was that johnson was a terrible QB.

 

- you know as well as i do that ticket sales are not a concrete barometer of fans' feelings about the team. if they were, how could buffalo sell out as often as they have during this decade of futility? people didn't come to the rams game because the team didn't look like a contender, sure. the san francisco game sold out the next week, however, and that couldn't possibly have had anything to do with flutie, since he was yet to play a meaningful role on the team at that point. this was the basis for my even bringing up rob johnson, to say that people began showing up after he played all of one good game.

 

- as much as you'd like there to be a yes/no answer with no explanation, i think you'd agree that the discussion over the last 11 years has grown far passed absolutes. the original statement that both you (http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=90671&view=findpost&p=1457949) and canbuffan34 (http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=90671&view=findpost&p=1457884) made was that flutie saved the franchise. not helped, not contributed, not that he was the QB on the team that played well enough to sell enough suite tickets to save the franchise, just that he plain and simply did it himself. symantics, in this case, make a huge difference. a huge difference, because (and you'll likely admit this yourself) flutie fanatics have a propensity to vastly over-state his on-the-field NFL credentials (which, as i pointed out, are really quite comparable to kordell stewart). so now to your question: did he HELP save the franchise? yes. as much as anyone else on that team. honestly, if eric moulds doesn't step up and have a breakout campaign, the team doesn't win either. if guys like sam cowart and bruce smith don't turn in huge performances that season, the team doesn't win. that, more than anything, is my point regarding the saving of the franchise. can you concede that much to me?

 

- i don't recall ever expressing "scorn and contempt" on this board, so it may be impossible for me to answer why others choose to express that sentiment. all i've ever said in this thread is that he wasn't a great QB, and that he wasn't a great teammate, and that those were my two reasons for disliking him. if you can show me where i expressed "scorn" or "contempt", i'll gladly explain myself. for me personally, my impression that he wasn't a good teammate comes from the passive-agressive game he'd play during interviews, that ALWAYS irked me. "I" was able to make this play, but "we" weren't able to convert this 3rd down. "I" felt great out there, but "we" couldn't hold it together defensively. i noticed it in every single interview i ever heard from the guy, and (having done some work for the AP during that time) heard from colleagues that it was even more prevalent in his intra-squad communication. can you chalk that up to personality? i don't know, but what i can tell you is that if one of my teammates made a point to speak like that about my team, he'd have a whole lot of explaining to do.

[thebandit27]

SJB, you continue to talk about everyting Flutie did for Buffalo but all you can come up with is that he saved the franchise. Look, I'll acknowledge that some fans bought tickets because of him, but the majority of fans , like myself, bought tickets because we love our team. You act as though this town owes him. Buffalo made him a rich man to the tune of 5 mil a season. And the good people of WNY lined up at supermarkets to purchase Flutie Flakes, flutie bars, and those faggy little Flutie bears. Doug Flutie prospered very well here in Buffalo. That said, "Ask not what Flutie did for Buffalo, ask what Buffalo did for Flutie."

 

bingo

[VOR]

Wow - 'Bucky's' opinion = proof??????

Why, you think he made the whole thing up?