Oct 2002 - The story of Dick Jauron "Coward"-gate

[Da Big Man]

1. No coach wins with poor lines and poor quarterbacks

2. The Bills have given Jauron poor lines and poor quarterbacks

 

Conclusion: Seven wins, nine losses exceeds reasonable expectations.

 

 

Show me the hole in the logic.

A good head coach and OC can generate an offense around any known weakness...that point moot. Example: Baltimore Ravens superbowl victory.

[Bill from NYC]

1. No coach wins with poor lines and poor quarterbacks

2. The Bills have given Jauron poor lines and poor quarterbacks

 

Conclusion: Seven wins, nine losses exceeds reasonable expectations.

 

 

Show me the hole in the logic.

 

BBB, do you have any reason at all to think that Jauron didn't play a huge role in terms of bringing in these poor players of which you speak?

He walked in and fell all over himself to draft first round defensive backs (for his dumb cover-2), and plays them a mile off of the ball. There was more than ample opportunity for him to address both lines and he didn't. He neglected these areas in the draft, and brought in mostly bad players as free agents for 3 years. Obviously, he places more emphasis on the secondary, which btw isn't all that.

 

I am not being a wiseass BBB, but are you really not seeing the above?

[downunderbill]

Thanks for stealing the time it took me to read this lame post that has no relevance to anything other than some fan who doesnt understand football calling into a radio station and calling him a coward...

 

I used to think the Raiders had the worst fans in football, I am starting to think its now the Bills fans...I mean, we have just had a very good offseason capped by a fantastic draft (based on what we know at this exact moment about the drafted players) and have all the reason to be optimistic, but yet you have your dirty panties in a wad about a dumb phone call probably from some drunk fan 7 years ago...

 

Let me ask you this, whats the one thing DJ has never had during any of the years he has been a HC? Give up...a Quarterback...pretty hard to win in this league or be "aggressive" when your QB is NOT capable of handling that...

 

isn't it partly the coaches job to find that QB? and we won't know if we had a good offseason until several games are played. so many draft picks and vets on new teams have amounted to nothing.

[Alphadawg7]

A good head coach and OC can generate an offense around any known weakness...that point moot. Example: Baltimore Ravens superbowl victory.

 

hahahahaha, geezus, the s**t is getting deep in here...

 

How anyone that lives in anything remotely close to reality can compare what DJ had to work with in his 3 years in Buffalo to what the Ravens had in talent in Balt when they won Super Bowl should just be banned for being delusional. In fact, you could pool the talent of every team he has ever coached in Chi, Det, and Buffalo and you would struggle to assemble a team as good as Balt that year. That was one of the best defenses in the history of the NFL, and some would argue the best ever. They had a 2000 yard RB, the greatest TE in history, and a QB who managed the game well for them.

[spartacus]

isn't it partly the coaches job to find that QB? and we won't know if we had a good offseason until several games are played. so many draft picks and vets on new teams have amounted to nothing.

 

the front office is respopnsible for acquiring a QB- but our inept talent evalautors is a story for another thread.

 

It is the coaches job to develop the QBs that are on the roster.

 

Dick and his boys are going 0-2 with JP and Trent.

 

Last year, Trent came out like gangbusters and showed he has the talent to be successful.

 

That lasted for 5 games and then Trent became possessed by the ghost of Bruce Mathison. It's the coaches job to rebuild his confidence and put him in position to succeed with play design and play calling.

 

the coaches failed him miserably in 2008.

[The Big Cat]

BBB, do you have any reason at all to think that Jauron didn't play a huge role in terms of bringing in these poor players of which you speak?

He walked in and fell all over himself to draft first round defensive backs (for his dumb cover-2), and plays them a mile off of the ball. There was more than ample opportunity for him to address both lines and he didn't. He neglected these areas in the draft, and brought in mostly bad players as free agents for 3 years. Obviously, he places more emphasis on the secondary, which btw isn't all that.

 

I am not being a wiseass BBB, but are you really not seeing the above?

 

 

isn't it partly the coaches job to find that QB? and we won't know if we had a good offseason until several games are played. so many draft picks and vets on new teams have amounted to nothing.

 

And my question to both of you:

 

Just what is the standard for acquiring players in the NFL, and what has Jauron done to run contrary to that? Are we totally ignoring the Buffalo, NY factor?

[Bill from NYC]

Just what is the standard for acquiring players in the NFL, and what has Jauron done to run contrary to that? Are we totally ignoring the Buffalo, NY factor?

 

I thought I was clear. Levy'Jauron threw away the 06 draft by chasing defensive backs, including the 8th overall pick. They built the team ass backwards, and it resulted in losses.

This is normal for Jauron. He doesn't win. He loses.

[C.Biscuit97]

I thought I was clear. Levy'Jauron threw away the 06 draft by chasing defensive backs, including the 8th overall pick. They built the team ass backwards, and it resulted in losses.

This is normal for Jauron. He doesn't win. He loses.

 

 

We've gone through this before. The Colts have drafted more defensive backs than the Bills have in the last 10 years. Difference is that they have have Manning while we have had a washed up Bledsoe, Losman, and Holcomb. If Edwards develops this year into the QB they think he is, this team will magically look a lot better.

 

Again, and people love to dismiss it, but Belichick had a worse record than Jauron until Mo Lewis nearly killed Bledsoe. Great coaches are made by great QBs.

[Bill from NYC]

We've gone through this before. The Colts have drafted more defensive backs than the Bills have in the last 10 years. Difference is that they have have Manning while we have had a washed up Bledsoe, Losman, and Holcomb.

 

Yeah, they had Manning......and Meadows, Tarik Glenn, Harrison, James and Freeney before their push on the secondary. See for yourself.

 

That is how a team is built. You don't draft Donte Whitner at #8 when your lines suck because if you do, you will lose. Like Dick Jauron.

[downunderbill]

It sucks when your Dick is too soft

 

he does lack a mean streak.

 

And my question to both of you:

 

Just what is the standard for acquiring players in the NFL, and what has Jauron done to run contrary to that? Are we totally ignoring the Buffalo, NY factor?

 

Money will knock the Buffalo NY factor on its head.

[C.Biscuit97]

Yeah, they had Manning......and Meadows, Tarik Glenn, Harrison, James and Freeney before their push on the secondary. See for yourself.

 

That is how a team is built. You don't draft Donte Whitner at #8 when your lines suck because if you do, you will lose. Like Dick Jauron.

 

When they drafted Whitner, they thought their lines were set. Our d-lines had more sacks than the Giants d-line and we finished 8th in the NFL. We just signed Dockery, Fowler, drafted Butler, and had a motivated & somewhat in-shape Peters.

 

And for all this talk about Jauron being being in love with dbs, you realize in 4 drafts we have drafted 2 in the first 2 rounds: 1 in the 1st and 1 in the 2nd.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

BBB, do you have any reason at all to think that Jauron didn't play a huge role in terms of bringing in these poor players of which you speak?

He walked in and fell all over himself to draft first round defensive backs (for his dumb cover-2), and plays them a mile off of the ball. There was more than ample opportunity for him to address both lines and he didn't. He neglected these areas in the draft, and brought in mostly bad players as free agents for 3 years. Obviously, he places more emphasis on the secondary, which btw isn't all that.

 

I am not being a wiseass BBB, but are you really not seeing the above?

I'll answer with a question of my own, Bill. Does this post do anything to dispell the theory that, theoretically, Dick Jauron (acting purely as a Head Coach) would win football games with strong line & QB play?

 

If not, the guy coaching the team may not be what needs to be re-examined. The structure of this team's front office is. I strongly believe that with a front office that provides him with ingredients necessary for winning, he can get the job done. We have no way of knowing for certain either way, because Buffalo hasn't done that so far, whether Jauron was (wrongfully?) involved in the process or not.

 

But, then again, this was certainly an encouraging draft (Wood, Levitre)...so maybe something has changed that we aren't privy to.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

A good head coach and OC can generate an offense around any known weakness...that point moot. Example: Baltimore Ravens superbowl victory.

Baltimore got outstanding line play on both sides of the football, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

[Cynical]

When they drafted Whitner, they thought their lines were set. Our d-lines had more sacks than the Giants d-line and we finished 8th in the NFL. We just signed Dockery, Fowler, drafted Butler, and had a motivated & somewhat in-shape Peters.

 

And for all this talk about Jauron being being in love with dbs, you realize in 4 drafts we have drafted 2 in the first 2 rounds: 1 in the 1st and 1 in the 2nd.

 

You are so confused, you have no clue what you are talking about:

 

Whitner was drafted #8 overall in 2006

McKelvin was drafted #11 overall in 2007

Byrd was drafted in the 2nd round in 2009

 

That's THREE in the first 2 rounds in 4 years.

 

By why stop at just the first 2 rounds?

Lets count them all up

 

in 2006, they drafted 3 DB

in 2007, they drafted 1 DB

in 2008, they drafted 3 more DBs

in 2009, they drafted 4 more DBs

 

Total drafted: 11 DBs

 

Total # of draftees: 34

 

That makes almost one third of all draftees were DBs since the Dick has been here.

 

ONE THIRD.

Throw in 2 first rounds and 1 second, and it almost becomes sickening

 

 

Note: that does not include free agent DBs such as Florence

 

Secondly,

 

Butler was drafted in 2006

Fowler was signed in 2006

Walker and Dockery were both signed in 2007.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Then again, there were complaints amongst Bills fans about drafting too many DBs about ten fcking years before Jauron got here, and these complaints have stayed relevant that whole time. So how much this really has to do with the head coach, we could sit here and debate for days.

[1billsfan]

Then again, there were complaints amongst Bills fans about drafting too many DBs about ten fcking years before Jauron got here, and these complaints have stayed relevant that whole time. So how much this really has to do with the head coach, we could sit here and debate for days.

 

The debating is over about Dick Jauron's head coaching abilities. The jury is in and he sucks monkey balls as an NFL head coach. Frankly, I wouldn't even hire him as an NFL defensive coordinator. For you to keep on excusing this guy's suckitude has now broke on through to the absurd side. Not only does his schemes, game planning and game day decisions suck over and over and over again, the guy has had three years worth of drafts and free agent signings to get "his" players into Buffalo and they still fell off the cliff in 2008 not even winning one freaking stinking AFC East game and losing to the Browns and 49ers at home along the way. They finished the last ten games 2-8. He isn't even excused by poor talent because these are his guys. Other than being good at being a nice guy, he sucks every which way you can suck. Please get a clue.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

The debating is over about Dick Jauron's head coaching abilities. The jury is in and he sucks monkey balls as an NFL head coach. Frankly, I wouldn't even hire him as an NFL defensive coordinator. For you to keep on excusing this guy's suckitude has now broke on through to the absurd side. Not only does his schemes, game planning and game day decisions suck over and over and over again, the guy has had three years worth of drafts and free agent signings to get "his" players into Buffalo and they still fell off the cliff in 2008 not even winning one freaking stinking AFC East game and losing to the Browns and 49ers at home along the way. They finished the last ten games 2-8. He isn't even excused by poor talent because these are his guys. Other than being good at being a nice guy, he sucks every which way you can suck. Please get a clue.

You're right. He should have taken teams with crappy lines and awful quarterback play to the SuperBowl. Now I've seen the light.

[1billsfan]

You're right. He should have taken teams with crappy lines and awful quarterback play to the SuperBowl. Now I've seen the light.

 

Dude, what part of "these are his guys" did you not understand????

 

1. He wanted Whitner instead of Ngata...Loser

2. He had a hand in moving up in the first and drafting John McCargo when Nick Mangold was still there..Loser

3. He wanted Derrick Dockery..Loser

4. Before this draft Jauron was a key personell decisionmaker that was responsible for the malpractice-like neglect of the offensive line in the form of not one lineman drafted before the fifth round and ending up with the likes of Bell, Butler, Pennington and Mertz..Loser

5. Not only did he think Kelsay was starting material, he was on board for the big fat contract extension while going cheap with their all-pro left tackle to the point Peters forced a trade..Loser

5. He wanted Robert Royal..Loser

 

You literally have nothing to hang your hat one with regards to Dick Jaroun. Not only does he suck at being a talent decision-maker, he's going to go down as one of the all time worst coaches in the league. BTW, I believe that if Dick were given the 2008 Pittsburgh Steelers last season he still wouldn't have been able to have a winning season.

[thebandit27]

You are so confused, you have no clue what you are talking about:

 

Whitner was drafted #8 overall in 2006

McKelvin was drafted #11 overall in 2007

Byrd was drafted in the 2nd round in 2009

 

That's THREE in the first 2 rounds in 4 years.

 

By why stop at just the first 2 rounds?

Lets count them all up

 

in 2006, they drafted 3 DB

in 2007, they drafted 1 DB

in 2008, they drafted 3 more DBs

in 2009, they drafted 4 more DBs

 

Total drafted: 11 DBs

 

Total # of draftees: 34

 

That makes almost one third of all draftees were DBs since the Dick has been here.

 

ONE THIRD.

Throw in 2 first rounds and 1 second, and it almost becomes sickening

 

 

Note: that does not include free agent DBs such as Florence

 

Secondly,

 

Butler was drafted in 2006

Fowler was signed in 2006

Walker and Dockery were both signed in 2007.

 

- San Diego drafted a DB with one of their top 2 picks every year from 2005 to 2008

- TheGiants have spent 3 of their 4 1st & 2nd round picks in 2007 and 2008 on DBs

- Denver took DBs in the first round for 3 straight seasons earlier this decade, and drafted 2 DBs in the 2nd round in 2009 (one of which cost them a first rounder in 2010)

- The Eagles have drafted more DBs than any other team in football since 2004

- At least 8 teams have drafted multiple DBs in the top 3 rounds since 2005

- The Patriots drafted DBs with their 1st and 3rd picks (both 2nd rounders) in the 2009 draft

- Miami drafted DBs with their 2nd and 3rd picks (both 2nd rounders) in the 2009 draft

- Atlanta, who drafted as many DBs as Buffalo from 2006 to 2008, drafted DBs in the 2nd and 3rd round in 2009

 

I know it's fashionable to regurgitate the "Dick Jauron is the only coach that drafts DBs" argument, but it's not exactly a stretch to say that every team drafts more DBs than any other spot. They do make up 20% of most teams' rosters, you know.

[Bill from NYC]

- Atlanta, who drafted as many DBs as Buffalo from 2006 to 2008, drafted DBs in the 2nd and 3rd round in 2009

 

Are you really going to compare the resources used by the Jauron Bills and the Falcons wrt drafting dbs? Seriously?

 

The earliest pick Atlanta used from 06-09 on a db was the 5th pick of round 2. See for yourself. The Levy/Jauron combo dwarfs this almost every season. Since 1990 the Bills have used a whopping 8 selections on first round dbs, and most of them were during the period when Levy was here. Of course, Jauron took this ticket to losing to the next level. The Falcons used 4. Besides, Atlanta plays in a climate that is more favorable to passing than is Buffalo.

 

Teams need to have strong lines and good quarterbacks before they worry about the secondary. This is a given to all except time tested losers like Dick Jauron.

[thebandit27]

Are you really going to compare the resources used by the Jauron Bills and the Falcons wrt drafting dbs? Seriously?

 

The earliest pick Atlanta used from 06-09 on a db was the 5th pick of round 2. See for yourself. The Levy/Jauron combo dwarfs this almost every season. Since 1990 the Bills have used a whopping 8 selections on first round dbs, and most of them were during the period when Levy was here. Of course, Jauron took this ticket to losing to the next level. The Falcons used 4. Besides, Atlanta plays in a climate that is more favorable to passing than is Buffalo.

 

Teams need to have strong lines and good quarterbacks before they worry about the secondary. This is a given to all except time tested losers like Dick Jauron.

 

Are you really going to insinuate that the 1990-1999 drafts affect the state of the Dick Jauron-coached Bills?

Are you really going to whittle an entire post down to one line?

Are you really going to bring weather into the equation given that my post also included climates like NY, Denver, Philadelphia, and New England?

 

C'mon Bill, you're better than that. The point of the post is that EVERY team in the NFL drafts DBs early, and that some teams have done it more often recently than others.

[Ramius]

Are you really going to compare the resources used by the Jauron Bills and the Falcons wrt drafting dbs? Seriously?

 

The earliest pick Atlanta used from 06-09 on a db was the 5th pick of round 2. See for yourself. The Levy/Jauron combo dwarfs this almost every season. Since 1990 the Bills have used a whopping 8 selections on first round dbs, and most of them were during the period when Levy was here. Of course, Jauron took this ticket to losing to the next level. The Falcons used 4. Besides, Atlanta plays in a climate that is more favorable to passing than is Buffalo.

 

Teams need to have strong lines and good quarterbacks before they worry about the secondary. This is a given to all except time tested losers like Dick Jauron.

 

The titans have spent 4 of their past 9 1st rounders on DBs, yet you somehow leave them out.

 

And again, please explain how the early 90's bills selecting DBs (which they desperately needed, as our secondary was weak) somehow has a bearing on how the 2009 Bills will play. oh thats right. It has nothing to do with anything.

[thebandit27]

The titans have spent 4 of their past 9 1st rounders on DBs, yet you somehow leave them out.

 

And again, please explain how the early 90's bills selecting DBs (which they desperately needed, as our secondary was weak) somehow has a bearing on how the 2009 Bills will play. oh thats right. It has nothing to do with anything.

 

Logic isn't nearly as fun or convenient as grandstanding about how Dick Jauron drafts 26 DBs every year.

[Bill from NYC]

The titans have spent 4 of their past 9 1st rounders on DBs, yet you somehow leave them out.

 

And again, please explain how the early 90's bills selecting DBs (which they desperately needed, as our secondary was weak) somehow has a bearing on how the 2009 Bills will play. oh thats right. It has nothing to do with anything.

 

I think that when Polian left, Levy played a stronger role. Levy.....the guy who brought us Jauron.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

1. He wanted Whitner instead of Ngata...Loser

2. He had a hand in moving up in the first and drafting John McCargo when Nick Mangold was still there..Loser

3. He wanted Derrick Dockery..Loser

4. Before this draft Jauron was a key personell decisionmaker that was responsible for the malpractice-like neglect of the offensive line in the form of not one lineman drafted before the fifth round and ending up with the likes of Bell, Butler, Pennington and Mertz..Loser

5. Not only did he think Kelsay was starting material, he was on board for the big fat contract extension while going cheap with their all-pro left tackle to the point Peters forced a trade..Loser

5. He wanted Robert Royal..Loser

I'm sorry, but we have no way of knowing whether any of this is true. We have not been given any information into the behind-the-scenes workings of the Bills front office, and we have no clue which ideas came out of which mouths. We also have no idea how much Jauron has been involved with personnel decisions. I have no clue where you're pulling this from.

 

What makes you believe all of this? His title is only Head Coach...we have little to no reason to believe he's been any more involved with the process than any other Head Coach.

[I'm Spartacus]

wherever Dick goes - his protectors are playing the injury card to defend him

 

could it be that his training staff is incompetent?

 

or maybe the injuyies are because his teams are "soft" due to country club training camps and indoor practices which do not prepare the players for the rigors of an NFL season.

No.....

[Ramius]

I think that when Polian left, Levy played a stronger role. Levy.....the guy who brought us Jauron.

 

Interesting you use those 2 people.

 

Marv - If he had more input as you are hypothesizing, he would have had say during the Butler years, from the 93 draft to the 96 draft. In those drafts, the Bills spent 2 firsts and 2 thirds on DBs. They also took a 1st round OL in Rueben Brown.

Now in Marvs second stint with the bills, in 2 years he spent a 1st and a 3rd on DBs.

 

 

Bill Polian - Took over prior to the 1986 draft in buffalo, and his last draft was the 1992 draft. In 7 drafts with the Bills, Polian took 12 DBs in the first 7 rounds of the draft. (i limited the '86-92 drafts to 7 rounds so they'd be comparable to today),including 2 firsts and 2 seconds. In that same span, he spent 2 firsts on OL, in his first and last years with the bills. Note that aside from those 2, he spent a lone 3rd round pick on the OL in all the other years and took no other lineman higher than the 7th round.

 

"Marv years" with buffalo - 3 firsts and 3 thirds on DBs, 12 total DBs over 6 years

"Polian years" with buffalo - 2 firsts, 2 seconds, 1 third, 12 total DBs in 7 years.

Whoopsie! Why are the draft records similar, if these guys have "different ideas on how to build a team?"

 

Now we look at Polian in Indy, which he took over with the 1998 draft: Note that glenn and meadows were drafted by the previous GM. Polian has taken 25 DBs in the 12 drafts he's been in Indy, including 2 firsts, 4 seconds, and 6 thirds. In that same span in Indy, he's drafted exactly 3 OL in the first 2 rounds, with 0 first rounders.

 

Polian with Indy from '98 to '09 - 2 firsts, 4 seconds, 6 thirds and 25 total DBs. 3 picks on the OL in rounds 1-3.

Buffalo from '98-'09 - 4 firsts, 2 seconds, and 2 thirds, and 20 total DBs.In that same span, the bills have spent 5 picks on the OL in rounds 1-3.

 

 

So you tell me who is to blame for the Bills drafting DBs? Seems to me like Polian is the one with the history of extensive drafting of DBs. So perhaps Marv and polian agree on a strategy on what players to target in the draft and what players to target in free agency. Everyone drafts DBs. Everyone drafts lots of DBs. That's the nature of the game. In today's NFL, where there are 3 WRs most of the time, teams need to start as many DBs as OL.

 

Now feel free to ignore the numbers and tell us all how the 2006 draft was an "unmitigated disaster" and set the franchise back 65 years because we took some DBs.

[1billsfan]

The titans have spent 4 of their past 9 1st rounders on DBs, yet you somehow leave them out.

 

And again, please explain how the early 90's bills selecting DBs (which they desperately needed, as our secondary was weak) somehow has a bearing on how the 2009 Bills will play. oh thats right. It has nothing to do with anything.

 

The Titans drafted the all-pro Roos in the second in 2005, signed the perennial all-pro Kevin Mawae from the Jets in 2006 and signed the solid Jake Scott from Indy in 2008. Funny how this coincided in their recent success.

 

Meanwhile, the Bills floundered around overpaying average lineman like Dockery and Walker and foolishly believing that guys like Melvin Fowler and Duke Preston were anywhere near starting center material.

 

The signature Dick Jauron draft was in 2006 when they reached for the DB in Whitner over the DT Ngata and then reached for McCargo over the center Mangold knowing there would be blow-back for not getting the DT. NFL pundits and Bills fans all knew better then these morons that year. So all Bills fans were left with was the hope that Whitner was going to be a monster play-making strong safety worthy of passing over a guy like Ngata. Whoops!

 

Let's get real here. The Titans know what they're doing at every level (coaching and personnel) and the Bills clearly do not.

[Sisyphean Bills]

The Titans drafted the all-pro Roos in the second in 2005, signed the perennial all-pro Kevin Mawae from the Jets in 2006 and signed the solid Jake Scott from Indy in 2008. Funny how this coincided in their recent success.

 

Meanwhile, the Bills floundered around overpaying average lineman like Dockery and Walker and foolishly believing that guys like Melvin Fowler and Duke Preston were anywhere near starting center material.

 

The signature Dick Jauron draft was in 2006 when they reached for the DB in Whitner over the DT Ngata and then reached for McCargo over the center Mangold knowing there would be blow-back for not getting the DT. NFL pundits and Bills fans all knew better then these morons that year. So all Bills fans were left with was the hope that Whitner was going to be a monster play-making strong safety worthy of passing over a guy like Ngata. Whoops!

 

Let's get real here. The Titans know what they're doing at every level (coaching and personnel) and the Bills clearly do not.

Jeff Fisher is doomed without a great QB.

[Ramius]

The Titans drafted the all-pro Roos in the second in 2005, signed the perennial all-pro Kevin Mawae from the Jets in 2006 and signed the solid Jake Scott from Indy in 2008. Funny how this coincided in their recent success.

 

Meanwhile, the Bills floundered around overpaying average lineman like Dockery and Walker and foolishly believing that guys like Melvin Fowler and Duke Preston were anywhere near starting center material.

 

The signature Dick Jauron draft was in 2006 when they reached for the DB in Whitner over the DT Ngata and then reached for McCargo over the center Mangold knowing there would be blow-back for not getting the DT. NFL pundits and Bills fans all knew better then these morons that year. So all Bills fans were left with was the hope that Whitner was going to be a monster play-making strong safety worthy of passing over a guy like Ngata. Whoops!

 

Let's get real here. The Titans know what they're doing at every level (coaching and personnel) and the Bills clearly do not.

 

I'm not defending dick jauron at all. I'm pointing out the error in BillfromNYc's argument. If your head hasn't firmly lodged in your ass, you'd see it was a comparison between Levy and Polian and their drafting strategies. Nowhere did i mention dick jauron. But you've never been one to deal in facts and/or reality, so why start now?

[C.Biscuit97]

Jeff Fisher is doomed without a great QB.

 

 

You realize that Fisher has had 9 non-winning seasons in his 15 years coaching. Most of those years were with a former MVP and #3 pick in McNair. But another great point.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/FishJe0.htm

[Sisyphean Bills]

I'm not defending dick jauron at all. I'm pointing out the error in BillfromNYc's argument. If your head hasn't firmly lodged in your ass, you'd see it was a comparison between Levy and Polian and their drafting strategies. Nowhere did i mention dick jauron. But you've never been one to deal in facts and/or reality, so why start now?

One can look at how Polian approached 3 different teams to get an idea of what his strategy is: Buffalo, Carolina, and Indy. In all 3 cases, he built a team by getting a franchise QB. He either had or got protection for his QB and went after an elite pass rusher. His philosophy is laid bare with the Panthers clean slate, when he drafted a QB, CB, LT, and DE with the team's first 4 picks. The team did not draft a S until after he was gone. He got a good versatile back and a productive WR. In both Indy and Carolina, Polian started with the offense and publicly stated they'd round out the defense with "savvy veterans" and others until they could address it down the road. The concept is to get a strong core: a QB, a QB protecting LT, a QB crushing DE, and a shutdown CB together and put ample weapons on the field so the QB can succeed.

 

Not once did Polian start a rebuild by taking a pint-sized SS. While Marv Levy's tenure as a GM is once and only 2 years (absurdly short), he most definitely started his rebuilding with the defensive secondary. Other than a few really bad free agents, he did nothing with the offense other than wishful thinking that JP Losman was the answer. They didn't even address the pass rush on defense; instead, deciding they needed to trade up to get the last good 3-technique in the draft who, they thought, could fit the new system they were putting in. In year 2, after they decided Willis McGahee wasn't suited to their Mike Martz system, they decided to go out and get Marshawn Lynch and signed a couple of pedestrian lineman, like Walker, to fat contracts. In Dockery's case, the biggest contract in Bills history -- for a guy that was the 3rd or 4th best G in free agency according to some. Trent Edwards wasn't even somebody they were targeting; he was just a player they liked that fell in their lap and so they took him.

[Bill from NYC]

Not once did Polian start a rebuild by taking a pint-sized SS.

 

 

Do you know how funny that sounds? I guess we have to laugh to keep from crying.

 

I doubt if Levy would have hired a coach who was not stupid enough to do the above, let alone spurning offers to trade down. I sincerely believe that somebody (Brandon?) stopped Jauron from drafting dbs as early as he would have liked this year.

[Da Big Man]

hahahahaha, geezus, the s**t is getting deep in here...

 

How anyone that lives in anything remotely close to reality can compare what DJ had to work with in his 3 years in Buffalo to what the Ravens had in talent in Balt when they won Super Bowl should just be banned for being delusional. In fact, you could pool the talent of every team he has ever coached in Chi, Det, and Buffalo and you would struggle to assemble a team as good as Balt that year. That was one of the best defenses in the history of the NFL, and some would argue the best ever. They had a 2000 yard RB, the greatest TE in history, and a QB who managed the game well for them.

Baltimore did it with Defense and a quality coaching staff. The question was with the QB and weak Offense. They made it work and adjusted according to the offense's ability or lack there of. There is only one person in denial here...look in mirror and you will see him. The point is Dicky J and his staff could coach The Patriots and still F that up .

[C.Biscuit97]

Baltimore did it with Defense and a quality coaching staff. The question was with the QB and weak Offense. They made it work and adjusted according to the offense's ability or lack there of. There is only one person in denial here...look in mirror and you will see him. The point is Dicky J and his staff could coach The Patriots and still F that up .

 

 

Dude, you sound like an idiot. Billick was considered an offensive genius and they sucked on offense. Marvin Lewis and Mike Nolan (and now Rex Ryan who hopefully follows the trend) became head coaches after being the Ravens' defensive coordinator. They have had 1 winning season between them. The Ravens won because of their defensive talent is some of the best ever assembled. Using them as example of good caching is beyond stupid.

[Sisyphean Bills]

 

Do you know how funny that sounds? I guess we have to laugh to keep from crying.

 

I doubt if Levy would have hired a coach who was not stupid enough to do the above, let alone spurning offers to trade down. I sincerely believe that somebody (Brandon?) stopped Jauron from drafting dbs as early as he would have liked this year.

Taz me bro.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

I like how coaches run drafts now. I doubt its in the job description, though.

[spartacus]

I like how coaches run drafts now. I doubt its in the job description, though.

 

you would be correct

 

a well run team would have a clear delineation of responsibilities between its HC, GM and other front office personnel.

 

unfortunately in Buffalo we don't have a GM and the front office is not well run

 

we are subjected to the inner circle jerk system where no one has ultimate authority and no one is accountable.

 

but since Dick is the only one with actual football background, it is not beyond reason that he has more input in the circle jerk than other HCs who report to a real GM in a real front office environment.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

but since Dick is the only one with actual football background, it is not beyond reason that he has more input in the circle jerk than other HCs who report to a real GM in a real front office environment.

It is not beyond reason, agreed...but exactly why everyone is assuming we have a Coach/GM, I really can't understand.

[NewHampshireBillsFan]

you would be correct

 

a well run team would have a clear delineation of responsibilities between its HC, GM and other front office personnel.

 

unfortunately in Buffalo we don't have a GM and the front office is not well run

 

we are subjected to the inner circle jerk system where no one has ultimate authority and no one is accountable.

 

but since Dick is the only one with actual football background, it is not beyond reason that he has more input in the circle jerk than other HCs who report to a real GM in a real front office environment.

 

I think Levy had a lot of input in the draft when he was here. I mean Levy would have liked to have coached again and if he couldn't do that he certainly would have wanted to be heavily involved in personnel. Every time Levy was interviewed about the draft and free agent signings he made it seem like he was the decider. Remember how after he drafted Whitner he gave that long summary about how all the SB teams of the last several years had all pro SS's. The point is Levy came back to be involved and not a figurehead. He mentioned that the difference between the GM's job and HC was that his job as GM was now mostly in the off season for the draft and free agent signings.

 

Of course Levy relied heavily on Modrak for serious understanding of how good various prospects were.

 

I think DJ only got more input when Levy left since it left only Modrak and DJ who had serious football backgrounds.

 

I hate to say it because I will always admire Levy, but he should bear any blame about the drafts he was involved in and not DJ.