Offensive Talent

[Coach55]

Is it arguable that the talent level of the current offensive unit could rival that of the 1991 Bills (arguably the best unit in team history). Whether or not the playcalling is there is a different question. My concern is strictly from a talent perspective. I am aware that the line is still young and unproven and will be the key to the offense if they play as a unit, but assuming they do, I think this could be potentially the best offense in Bills history.

[Lt. Dan's Revenge]

Is it arguable that the talent level of the current offensive unit could rival that of the 1991 Bills (arguably the best unit in team history). Whether or not the playcalling is there is a different question. My concern is strictly from a talent perspective. I am aware that the line is still young and unproven and will be the key to the offense if they play as a unit, but assuming they do, I think this could be potentially the best offense ever.

 

The progress of the offensive line from now until opening week, as well as your signature itself proving to be a smart move, is going to determine how good this offense can be. Does it have the potential to be very, very good? Yes. Does it have just as much potential to be very mediocore if those two things don't turn out well for us? Absolutely.

[Thoner7]

Owens is at the same level as Reed, but Lynch is not as good as Thurman, and Edwards is a DISTANT 3rd to Kelly and even Frank Reich. We have a rookie TE where in '91 we had some seasoned vets. The line is also a huge ? and not the dominant unit the 91 Bills could bank on. Throw the huge coaching drop off from then to now and I say the 09 offense couldnt even hold the 91's jock strap.

 

Sorry to disagree.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Edwards is a huge question mark.

[Mike in Syracuse]

Is it arguable that the talent level of the current offensive unit could rival that of the 1991 Bills (arguably the best unit in team history). Whether or not the playcalling is there is a different question. My concern is strictly from a talent perspective. I am aware that the line is still young and unproven and will be the key to the offense if they play as a unit, but assuming they do, I think this could be potentially the best offense in Bills history.

 

I can't think of a single position with MAYBE the exception of punter that wasn't better on the '91 team. From top to bottom that team was better in every single aspect of the game.

 

I love optimism but your assertion is just nuggin futz!

[LGB]

Owens is at the same level as Reed, but Lynch is not as good as Thurman, and Edwards is a DISTANT 3rd to Kelly and even Frank Reich. We have a rookie TE where in '91 we had some seasoned vets. The line is also a huge ? and not the dominant unit the 91 Bills could bank on. Throw the huge coaching drop off from then to now and I say the 09 offense couldnt even hold the 91's jock strap.

 

Sorry to disagree.

Maybe it makes sense to see if the Bills can finish higher than 25th on offense in the NFL this year (which is something they have not been able to do in the last six years) or maybe climb above .500 before these Bills are compared to previous winning teams?

 

Special Teams have been the only thing close to special about the Bills of late and I agree that the coaching drop off from then to now is huge (less Bobby April).

 

On a positive note: Bill's fans are still the best and comparable to the fans from the 90s.

[The Rev.Mattb74 ESQ.]

Is it arguable that the talent level of the current offensive unit could rival that of the 1991 Bills (arguably the best unit in team history). Whether or not the playcalling is there is a different question. My concern is strictly from a talent perspective. I am aware that the line is still young and unproven and will be the key to the offense if they play as a unit, but assuming they do, I think this could be potentially the best offense in Bills history.

The 91 Offense had 3 people currently in the Hall of Fame with Kelly, Thomas, and Lofton. Also potential hall of famer in Reed, and O-Lineman that had been to the probowl in Wolford, Ritcher, and Hull. Also dependable playmaking TE in McKellar and a outstanding do everything TE in Metzalaars. The current offense has a WR that has made some probowls in Owens, and then alot of question marks.

[stuckincincy]

Is it arguable that the talent level of the current offensive unit could rival that of the 1991 Bills (arguably the best unit in team history). Whether or not the playcalling is there is a different question. My concern is strictly from a talent perspective. I am aware that the line is still young and unproven and will be the key to the offense if they play as a unit, but assuming they do, I think this could be potentially the best offense in Bills history.

 

Yeah, the offense is primed to grab the gold. That's why out of 8 picks, only 3 were for offensive players, and then 5 for the defense.

 

 

[tennesseeboy]

Quarterback not even close...in a million years! The offensive line is poor until it proves otherwise and ...listen carefully...there is NO OFFENSE without a good offensive line. Nope. Until there is a real improvement in the o-line we have a run of the mill football team. Couple that with a defensive line that can't rush effectively and you're looking at a 6-10 team. If our rookies perform? we might be 8 and 8.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Is it arguable that the talent level of the current offensive unit could rival that of the 1991 Bills (arguably the best unit in team history). Whether or not the playcalling is there is a different question. My concern is strictly from a talent perspective. I am aware that the line is still young and unproven and will be the key to the offense if they play as a unit, but assuming they do, I think this could be potentially the best offense in Bills history.

Of course it's a losing proposition to compare this offensive squad to one of the best in NFL history. That said I agree with you that this is the best collection of offensive talent seen in Buffalo in a long time.

 

The ceiling is arguably very high. The trigger man, Trent Edwards enters his 3rd season. His play will determine the heights this offense reaches. He has many of the same traits as Dan Fouts...intelligence, good field vision, good decision making, quick release. If Trent plays to his abilities, he has many weapons.

 

We have three excellent running backs who can both run and catch effectively.

 

We will have four jump ball receivers for goal line situations: Owens, Hardy, Johnson, and Nelson.

 

I haven't even mentioned our top two receivers, Lee Evans and Josh Reed.

 

There has been an influx of top talent in the interior offensive line. The degree to which they gel will be the second most important factor after Trent's development.

 

This unit might start off the season with a stumble or two but the upside looks very high to me.

[Coach55]

Owens is at the same level as Reed, but Lynch is not as good as Thurman, and Edwards is a DISTANT 3rd to Kelly and even Frank Reich. We have a rookie TE where in '91 we had some seasoned vets. The line is also a huge ? and not the dominant unit the 91 Bills could bank on. Throw the huge coaching drop off from then to now and I say the 09 offense couldnt even hold the 91's jock strap.

 

Sorry to disagree.

The receiving corps is definitely more talented now than then. If you consider Owens and Reed a wash. I would take Evans over Loften as he was decent but well past his best years. And I would take Reed or Parrish over Beebe as the #3.

 

As for the backs, I have always contested that Thomas was a "good" back who, through playing in a good system became a "great" back. I think any decent back put in that position would flourish. I will agree that from a consistency and longevity standpoint, Thomas was solid, but on a pure talent basis I don't think he was a phenom. Overall I think the combination of Lynch, Jackson and Rhodes is a wash to Thomas and Davis.

 

The TE is entirely baked on potential - IF, and I mean IF Nelson can be effectively a WR at the TE spot, he could blow away Metzelaars though he will never be as good a blocker.

 

As of right now Kelly is clearly better than Trent, however, if he is able to hit 65-70% of his passes with these receivers, their talent will push his numbers. Throw in his ability to lead, he may pleasantly surprise some people and could be a surprise pro-bowler this year.

 

Lastly is the line, I can't argue with you that the line in 91 was incredible Wolford, Ballard, Hull, Ritcher and Parker were d**n good with 4 pro-bowlers on it (not all in 91). The line of today clearly needs to show something to even be a comparison.

 

The only thing I must say is put this offense with Marchibroda and let him build the offense to exploit the talents of the players as done in 1991, who knows where they can go. Turk has all the tools, can he build the house?

[Chandler#81]

Sorry Coach, but I side with the dissenters as well. I'll go a bit further and reference the lone Champion Bills of the mid '60's. BeMiller, O'Donnell, Barber and HOFer Shaw are the unit of measure with this franchise. Bass, Dubenion, Carlton and -to a lesser extent- Gilchrist overcame the at-times mediocre QB play. Saban and Collier top this staff as well.

 

Oh, and they had a fantastic defense!

 

I'm liking all the players we've added as well and understand your optimism. I just think that if it all plays out well, it will be under a different coaching staff in the not-to-distant future. I'd love to be wrong here.

[atlbillsfan1975]

What you could say is this years team has the potential to be very good team. But they are still young in a lot of areas. Kelly was in the league how many years by 91? Thurman? Reed?.

Now can i see some of the talent on this roster developing? Sure. Lynch shows flashes, but has trouble off the field, and gets a little dinged up. Edwards looks the part and shows it sometimes on the field. He needs to do it consitently. He is no where near the leader Kelly was. But that can come with time and experience.

Evans is another guy who reminds me more of Bebe then Reed. I think he has much more talent then Bebe, but is not the possesion guy Reed was by any means. When the last time you saw Evans go over the middle, get crushed, come up with the ball and jog back to the huddle? Never.

So all and all we shall see, but this team needs some more seasoning.

[Deadstroke]

I can't think of a single position with MAYBE the exception of punter that wasn't better on the '91 team. From top to bottom that team was better in every single aspect of the game.

 

I love optimism but your assertion is just nuggin futz!

 

 

You're fulla negativity cramp, Mike. The receivers are easily on par with the '91 squad, and I have watched and cheered for both extensively. Lynch, if he'd get his head on straight, and if the OL gells, is not far behind Thomas, and the OL has a BIG chance to come together and be dominant, much like the '91 guys.

 

The big difference, of course, is Edwards to Kelley.... sad to say that it ain't in the cards!! But that don't mean that TE can't be good!!

[stuckincincy]

Of course it's a losing proposition to compare this offensive squad to one of the best in NFL history. That said I agree with you that this is the best collection of offensive talent seen in Buffalo in a long time.

 

The ceiling is arguably very high. The trigger man, Trent Edwards enters his 3rd season. His play will determine the heights this offense reaches. He has many of the same traits as Dan Fouts...intelligence, good field vision, good decision making, quick release. If Trent plays to his abilities, he has many weapons.

 

We have three excellent running backs who can both run and catch effectively.

 

We will have four jump ball receivers for goal line situations: Owens, Hardy, Johnson, and Nelson.

 

I haven't even mentioned our top two receivers, Lee Evans and Josh Reed.

 

There has been an influx of top talent in the interior offensive line. The degree to which they gel will be the second most important factor after Trent's development.

 

This unit might start off the season with a stumble or two but the upside looks very high to me.

 

This is a very nice press release.

[C.Biscuit97]

Obviously, it's insane to compare any offense that has never played together to one of the greatest offenses ever. And again, it is completely meaningless to compare when the '09 version has never taken a snap, but there are some similarites.

 

Terrell Owens vs. Andre Reed - As much as it pains me to say this becuase Reed is my favorite football player ever and I'm no really a TO fan, TO is the better the receiver. TO is one of the best receivers to ever play the game. And while TO may be on the downside of his career, he still caught 10 tds in that down season. Andre only did that once in his entire career.

 

The slighest of edges to 2009

Lee Evans vs. James Lofton - Lofton was a HOF receiver but was on the donwside of his career. Still, he was great as #2 guy and field stretcher. IMO, Evans is a really good receiver who has been held down but his QB play and fellow receivers. I look for him to explode this season and as it is, it is all ready off to the best start of any receiver in Bills' history.

 

Edge to 2009

 

Josh Reed vs. Don Beebe - This is a really tough one to compare because they are so different. Beebe had amazing speed and was a great threat. Reed has finally emerged as a very dependable, tough receiver. Both are tough and both had their problem with drops, though Reed seems to have gotten over than. This is a really tough one to call. So...

 

Even

 

Derek Fine/ Shawn Nelson vs. McKellar/ Metz - This is a blow out right now. I think our young guys have serious potential but haven't proven a thing now. McKellar/ Metz was a very solid and dependable duo.

 

Big edge to 1991

 

Lynch/ Jackson/ Rhodes vs. Thomas/ Davis - You can't pick against a HOFer and one of the best to ever do it, but the 2009 group may be the deepest rb group in the NFL right now. Jackson is very comparable to Davis and a guy like Rhodes is a very good #3 guy. I think Lynch is going to explode this year but Thurman was a great one.

 

Edge to 1991

 

2009 o-line vs. 1991 o-line - The 1991 o-line had some really good players but I also think they were a bit overrated. In physical matchups, they tended to get man handled. Also, the scheme helped them tremedously becuase they dealt with winded d-linemen aqnd didn't have to hold their blocks as long. Additionally, teams were afraid to blitz because we would make them paid.

 

That said, the 2009 version has proven nothing.

 

Big edge to 1991

 

Trent Edwards vs. Jim Kelly - Obviously, this is a blowout. But a few things to consider: Trent played as rookie straight out of college. Kelly went to the USFL for 2 seasons. I don't care who you are, as a QB, playing pro football at any level helps your development. Right now, Kelly's rookie season is where Trent is in his 3rd season. Additionally, Kelly in his 3rd season had a 15 td to 17 int, so he wasn't always setting the world on fire. That said, Trent has a lot of to prove but there are a lot of positive signs out of him as a 3rd year QB.

 

Big edge to 1991

 

So I scored it 4-2-1 in favor of the 1991 Bills. But either way, I'm very excited to see what this group can do.

[eball]

I think comparisons to an all-time squad like 1991 are unfounded...what we should all be thankful for is that the talent level of the 2009 offense appears, on paper, to be the best we've seen this decade. That alone is reason for optimism.

[Paup 1995MVP]

Is it arguable that the talent level of the current offensive unit could rival that of the 1991 Bills (arguably the best unit in team history). Whether or not the playcalling is there is a different question. My concern is strictly from a talent perspective. I am aware that the line is still young and unproven and will be the key to the offense if they play as a unit, but assuming they do, I think this could be potentially the best offense in Bills history.

I love your optimism. I think this team has a lot of talent on both sides of the ball with the free agents and draft picks we have signed this offseason. However, there are two very big factors that will determine if we are a winning playoff type team. And that is whether TE can step up and become a good, (doesn't need to be great) QB. And whether coach Dick will grow a pair and coach agressively. If we get good coaching and quarterbacking, this is a playoff team. All the other pieces are in place.

 

Coaching and Quarterbacking will be the biggest factors!!!

[The Rev.Mattb74 ESQ.]

You're fulla negativity cramp, Mike. The receivers are easily on par with the '91 squad, and I have watched and cheered for both extensively. Lynch, if he'd get his head on straight, and if the OL gells, is not far behind Thomas, and the OL has a BIG chance to come together and be dominant, much like the '91 guys.

 

The big difference, of course, is Edwards to Kelley.... sad to say that it ain't in the cards!! But that don't mean that TE can't be good!!

Lofton-in the Hall of Fame

Reed-probably make the hall of fame

Beebe-way better then any slot reciever on this team

Tasker-would have been a starting WR for any coach except Levy who valued him more on Special Teams

 

Our current WR will have maybe 1 Hall of famer in Owens-He has good stats but the committee looks at the era the stats where accumulated in and have been known to pass on certain players for saying stupid things like Ricky Waters for saying "For who, for what"

Evans-is the best deep threat this team had since lofton but Lofton had over 1000 yds recieving in 91 plus over 18 yds per catch- Evans has never had that high a Yards per catch

Comparing Reed to Beebe is just silly as Reed gets his catches because of lack of options, where Beebe got his catches despite all the options-also Beebe had over 15 yards per catch career avg-Reeds is barely over 11

Heck Thurman had 61 catches that year, did anyone on this team have that many catches last year let alone the RB even our Backup RB Davis had 20 catches

McKellar had 44 catches

I understand your argument about Kelly and Edwards but that recieving core was probably a top ten ever in the league, we are hoping this years Recievers could be top ten in the league this year. While you could make the argument that Loftons best years where behind him, the same can be said about Owens, and nobody on this squad is Andre Reed as that man was money every time the ball was near him he grabbed it.

[JinWPB]

 

 

(As for the backs, I have always contested that Thomas was a "good" back who, through playing in a good system became a "great" back. )

 

You must not have watched many live games of Thurman's. He made other defenses look like they were playing in

slow motion,a GREAT receiver and probably the best ever at blocking for the QB.

[Kelly the Dog]

While we clearly are inarguably inferior to the '91 team at all positions excluding WR, we more than make up for it with our '09 coaching.

[afcfan1]

Is it arguable that the talent level of the current offensive unit could rival that of the 1991 Bills (arguably the best unit in team history). Whether or not the playcalling is there is a different question. My concern is strictly from a talent perspective. I am aware that the line is still young and unproven and will be the key to the offense if they play as a unit, but assuming they do, I think this could be potentially the best offense in Bills history.

 

It's not arguable. The OL sucks and Trent Edwards hasn't proven to be anything more than a below avg-avg QB. TO is at the end of his run, and his skills are obviously diminishing. He was not the explosive player last year that he has been in the past, despite being surrounded by a lot more offensive talent than what he will have with the Bills. Lynch is a quality back, Evans is a dynamic deep threat and TO, despite slowing down, is a quality WR. In all other areas the Bills are below avg.

[deep2evans]

It's not arguable. The OL sucks and Trent Edwards hasn't proven to be anything more than a below avg-avg QB. TO is at the end of his run, and his skills are obviously diminishing. He was not the explosive player last year that he has been in the past, despite being surrounded by a lot more offensive talent than what he will have with the Bills. Lynch is a quality back, Evans is a dynamic deep threat and TO, despite slowing down, is a quality WR. In all other areas the Bills are below avg.

 

You're forgetting about Fred Jackson and Josh Reed, both above average at their respective roles. You have no idea if the O-line will suck - I seem to think there will be more continuity there. Rookies CAN come in on the o-line and play at a high level (see Ryan Clady). Also, TO hasn't had a receiver as good as Evans on his team since Jerry Rice. That's an overlooked and underrated factor.

[afcfan1]

You're forgetting about Fred Jackson and Josh Reed, both above average at their respective roles. You have no idea if the O-line will suck - I seem to think there will be more continuity there. Rookies CAN come in on the o-line and play at a high level (see Ryan Clady). Also, TO hasn't had a receiver as good as Evans on his team since Jerry Rice. That's an overlooked and underrated factor.

 

He's also never been on a team so bad. Every team he has ever been on was successful before he got there. He's also going to be playing with the least talented QB of his career (that should go real well). Continuity????? How many guys on that OL will be playing the same position on the Bills line they did last year? Gotta love the wishful thinking that goes on with Bills fans every April-AUgust. But everybody knows when the reality of Sept-Dec rolls around, Bills fans will get the stiff kick in the groin they get every year. The Bills just do not possess very much talent on their roster, and that seems to be the case year in and year out.

[C.Biscuit97]

He's also never been on a team so bad. Every team he has ever been on was successful before he got there. He's also going to be playing with the least talented QB of his career (that should go real well). Continuity????? How many guys on that OL will be playing the same position on the Bills line they did last year? Gotta love the wishful thinking that goes on with Bills fans every April-AUgust. But everybody knows when the reality of Sept-Dec rolls around, Bills fans will get the stiff kick in the groin they get every year. The Bills just do not possess very much talent on their roster, and that seems to be the case year in and year out.

 

 

Blah, blah. Go root for the NFC then.

[BB Fan 4 LIFE]

Given that we were offensively near the bottom in nearly every category last year...and upgraded at one position...I have to disagree.

[billsfan89]

The skill position players rival those teams but the o-line a qb are no where close at least at this point. The o-line is young and could be a good unit. As far as Trent he could be good but it depends on three things one his o-line, two his coaching, and three his ability to stay healthy. He has the mental make up and a good enough arm as well as good accuracy to become a starter caliber qb in the NFL but its up to all those factors.

 

But this years team has the RB's and WR's to power the offense its up to a young o-line and Trent to make use of that. But the 1991 team did not have this many questions going into the season.

[afcfan1]

The skill position players rival those teams but the o-line a qb are no where close at least at this point. The o-line is young and could be a good unit. As far as Trent he could be good but it depends on three things one his o-line, two his coaching, and three his ability to stay healthy. He has the mental make up and a good enough arm as well as good accuracy to become a starter caliber qb in the NFL but its up to all those factors.

 

But this years team has the RB's and WR's to power the offense its up to a young o-line and Trent to make use of that. But the 1991 team did not have this many questions going into the season.

 

 

Without a dominant D, you're offense goes as the QB goes. You guys have an avg-below avg QB, so you are going to have an avg-below avg offense. Sorry. To compare the 09 Bills to one of the best offenses of all time is beyond laughable. A better question would the how many games before TO snaps? I'll take 4.