Bills were in serious discussions with Philly about Peters

[pBills]

He wasn't getting paid very well for a two time pro bowl LT.

 

The team has apparently been negotiating with him and also, looking at a trade. Wouldn't even a minor injury during an OTA endanger either possibility, trade or new contract with the Bills? As for being bitter, Brandon's press conference at the start of camp last year was unprofessional and uncalled for. There was no need to make that a public spectacle and negotiate through the press. Peters and his agent never said a single unkind word about the team, Ralph, Brandon or any one in the front office. Pity the GM couldn't return that courtesy.

 

 

However he was offered very good money by the Bills during these negotiations. He turned them down. One can't quickly forgive Peters for sitting out last year giving up on his team. And then of course when he came back, not playing well at all.

[BuffaloPride]

Ok, so pay Peters the money and make him the highest LT in the league. Then what happens next year when some other LT gets more money than Peters? Does he sit out again? They are not going to make him the highest paid LT in the game when you consider the fact that we won games without him last year.

[Paup 1995MVP]

OK, fine. So the Bills will trade Jason Peters to Philly. And then, the Eagles will pay him exactly what he has demanded to be paid by the Bills, and will anchor their offensive line as a Pro Bowl LT for the forseeable future. And the Bills? Well they will use the draft picks to draft more rookies. And if by some miracle, around the same year Peters' gets voted into his 5th or 6th consecutive Pro Bowl, the rookie the Bills draft at perhaps LT becomes as good as Peters, they won't pay him what his demands will be either. Yeah, it's great being a Bills fan, isn't it??

 

Bill Polian must be shaking his head in utter amazement as to what has become of his old franchise. This idiotic standoff with the talented Peters must remind Polian of the off-season that the Broncos signed young and upcoming Bruce Smith to an offer sheet. You know Polian lost his temper and most likely wanted to let the ingrate Smith shufflle up to Denver. But, his common sense and football smarts forced him to match the offer sheet, and he reaped the benefits of Bruce's Hall of Fame career for that decision.

For the love of god, it just makes me sick how much love there is on this board for Jason Peters. Why do all you supporters of him think he is so GREAT? What on earth has he done to make you feel so warm and fuzzy about him? Our offense has been horrible every year he has started on the O line. Is it all his fault? Of course not. Did he contribute to that? Yes he did. His play was AWFUL last year-game in and game out. Is he worth more than his current contract? Probably. Is he worth close to 10 million/year? NO WAY. He is not a LEADER on this team. His holdup cost the team bigtime last year and they know it.

 

Most of you have this view of the Bills FO as being totally incompetent. And our record over this decade has not been good. But signing Jason Peters to a new contract will not make or break this team, period. The guy is not tough, and does not dominate on every play. And he is not a team player. Why do we want to pay someone like that so much money? I am sure all things being equal the Bills would like to keep Peters at a reasonable cost. But given his erratic play, his difficult agent, his unreasonable salary demands, and his unwillingness to be part of the team, I think the Bills will trade him for the best deal they can get. Does that mean it is a bad move on their part? NO WAY!!! There are other guys on this team and in the draft who can play O line fairly well I am sure. And they will be with the team the entire offseason. Building continuity is everything on the O line. Peters is gone. Lets hope for the best deal and stop this talk about making new holes to fill. The way this offense has not performed, everyone save our two RB's should be available to move if the price is right. Would anyone be upset if we got rid of the entire O line from last year, our QB, TE's and all of last year's receivers other than Lee? I didn't think so.

 

So spare us all the rhetoric about how Peters is so good. There is absolutely nothing to support that giving him a ridiculous extension's positives outweigh the negatives.

[Wagon Circler]

I think we will be lucky to get one first rounder for him. Philly is going to have the same issues signing him that we are.

[JoeF]

Obviously with 70+ posts on this thread there is a lot to think about. Stroud's extension is pretty neutral to the cap -- Clumpy is our expert here -- but its basically a 4 year deal for $28 M with $12 M upfront and $16M for the first 2 years. Meaning that the salaries are probably $1 and $3 M in year one and two and the pro-rated bonus is $3M per year. His cap figure for 09 is basically the same $4M he was scheduled to make in base this year. So I don't think signing Stroud has much impact on the Peters situation.

 

The bottom line for me--Good to great left tackles make $8-11M dollars a year. There is no denying that our guy has made the pro bowl the last two years. He has all the skills you look for in an LT--quick into his pass blocking stance, wide base, good punch and in the run game he has great initial surge and the ability to get to the second level. He is special--but the holdout killed his timing last year--he didn't roll himself into football mentality until about week 7 and then got injured. He is worth somewhere in the good to great range. Continuity is worth something--so the difference between $9 M and $10M a year is basically paying for continuity. We don't want to go into the season replacing 60% of our line...40% is bad enough. If it comes down to $1M year -- just pay him the damn money. Someone else will if we don't.

[pBills]

Obviously with 70+ posts on this thread there is a lot to think about. Stroud's extension is pretty neutral to the cap -- Clumpy is our expert here -- but its basically a 4 year deal for $28 M with $12 M upfront and $16M for the first 2 years. Meaning that the salaries are probably $1 and $3 M in year one and two and the pro-rated bonus is $3M per year. His cap figure for 09 is basically the same $4M he was scheduled to make in base this year. So I don't think signing Stroud has much impact on the Peters situation.

 

The bottom line for me--Good to great left tackles make $8-11M dollars a year. There is no denying that our guy has made the pro bowl the last two years. He has all the skills you look for in an LT--quick into his pass blocking stance, wide base, good punch and in the run game he has great initial surge and the ability to get to the second level. He is special--but the holdout killed his timing last year--he didn't roll himself into football mentality until about week 7 and then got injured. He is worth somewhere in the good to great range. Continuity is worth something--so the difference between $9 M and $10M a year is basically paying for continuity. We don't want to go into the season replacing 60% of our line...40% is bad enough. If it comes down to $1M year -- just pay him the damn money. Someone else will if we don't.

 

 

Didn't the Bills offer him around $9-$10 million already?

[Leonidas]

Do the research here because "some" is in actuality very few.

 

In 07, Joe Thomas (CLE 3rd overall) played quite well and should have been a pro-bowler. Joe Staley (SF 1st) from that draft has also played well at LT. Tony Ugoh was a converted OG (IND-2nd) that year as well.

 

In 08, top pick Jake Long was impressive. Beyond him, only Ryan Clady (12th overall) of Denver and Branden Albert from KC was a fine or decent starter respectively.

 

From the 06 draft, only Marcus McNeill (SD 2nd rounder) and Jeremy Trueblood (TB 2nd) have played well.

 

2005's top LT, Jammal Brown (NO 1st) has done well, along with Michael Roos (TEN 2nd).

 

That's 10 LT's from 4 complete drafts. More than 90 players were drafted at OT in that time. So the odds of a pick becoming outstanding at the position are slim to none. No one beyond the second round has been even above average.

 

If Peters is dealt and Buffalo uses a first to replace him, that doesn't really make the Bills better for this year, no matter how many picks they acquire. I suspect Andy Reid wouldn't be keen to deal any decent players.

 

That's just a lie. Picking an OT in the first round or two has significantly higher results than picking any of the other "90" that were allegedly drafted (it's probably more like 50, including 6th and 7th round scrubs).

 

 

Ok, something needs to be said here. Are the majority of the people on this board clinically insane? You have a 2 time pro bowl left tackle on the team, who is under contract for 2 more freakin years and you want to trade him????

 

Did he deserve to go to the pro bowl last year? Maybe not. But I'm sick of seeing this stupid "sacks allowed" pseudo-stat that everyone has got their panties in a bunch over. You do realize that it is not an official stat kept by the NFL because it is way too ambiguous. And please don't forget that he was playing next to dockery the pylon who was atrocious this year. The only time I remember him getting burned legitimately was the Edwards fumble against jacksonville (his first game back). The JP fumble against the jets that everyone places on Peters was a perfectly timed CB blitz and would have been tough for anyone to stop. Not to mention JP held onto the ball way too long.

 

Facts:

 

 

1. He did not have nearly as bad a year as most people here believe

 

2. He is the Bills' most valuable player by a wide margin. Please don't argue this. Think of what everyone is throwing around as to what we could get for him and see if any other player on the roster could even come close to that

 

You could seriously play hardball with him and just not offer him a new contract, forcing him to play out his final two years. Then you could franchise him which, by that point, will probably amount to about $8M/year, give or take. Then you could trade him. I doubt the Bills want that kind of distraction though.

 

Oh, and sacks were a "pseudo-stat" until 1982. Were those irrelevant in the 70's???

 

 

He is the Bills' most valuable player by a wide margin. Please don't argue this. Think of what everyone is throwing around as to what we could get for him and see if any other player on the roster could even come close to that

 

ummm...okay? I mean, you're wrong, but I won't argue.

 

 

So by facts you really meant biased opinions?? Wow, thanks for researching and sharing, that was great.....

 

 

 

Two guys I really like are:

 

Eugene Monroe who's rated the #1 OT in the draft by all four draft mags I have and Gil Brandt rates him as the fourth best player in the draft. He has some injury issues but played in all games last year. He's being mentioned as a possible #1 pick for the Lions so it's doubtful he'd be there at #11 for Buffalo.

 

Jason Smith is listed ahead of Eugene Monroe on Scout's Inc. Top 32 players. They have Smith at 3 and Monroe at 5. The stuff I've read about Smith is that he's still learning the position but is very smart and has improved quickly. Most mags say he isn't ready to start yet unless it's at guard but he's an elite pass blocker which is What the Bills need with TE being brittle. If Detroit passes on Monroe as the first pick then either Monroe or JS should fall to Buffalo and in the long run may be better for the

Bills than Peters. If he's a fast learner as they say then he might be ready to start at LT.

 

I'd prefer Smith over Monroe based on what I've read and if he falls to Buffalo I'd be very happy.

 

 

This is completely irrelevant. Both players will be taken in the top seven.

 

 

OK, fine. So the Bills will trade Jason Peters to Philly. And then, the Eagles will pay him exactly what he has demanded to be paid by the Bills, and will anchor their offensive line as a Pro Bowl LT for the forseeable future. And the Bills? Well they will use the draft picks to draft more rookies. And if by some miracle, around the same year Peters' gets voted into his 5th or 6th consecutive Pro Bowl, the rookie the Bills draft at perhaps LT becomes as good as Peters, they won't pay him what his demands will be either. Yeah, it's great being a Bills fan, isn't it??

 

Bill Polian must be shaking his head in utter amazement as to what has become of his old franchise. This idiotic standoff with the talented Peters must remind Polian of the off-season that the Broncos signed young and upcoming Bruce Smith to an offer sheet. You know Polian lost his temper and most likely wanted to let the ingrate Smith shufflle up to Denver. But, his common sense and football smarts forced him to match the offer sheet, and he reaped the benefits of Bruce's Hall of Fame career for that decision.

 

Yeah, Jason Peters = Bruce Smith. Good argument. "Just pay him" and then wonder why the Bills franchise is unsustainable as having the lowest ticket prices in the league and watch us drift back into salary cap hell. "Just cut Chris Kelsay." It doesn't work that way, sorry.

[GG]

Bill Polian must be shaking his head in utter amazement as to what has become of his old franchise. This idiotic standoff with the talented Peters must remind Polian of the off-season that the Broncos signed young and upcoming Bruce Smith to an offer sheet. You know Polian lost his temper and most likely wanted to let the ingrate Smith shufflle up to Denver. But, his common sense and football smarts forced him to match the offer sheet, and he reaped the benefits of Bruce's Hall of Fame career for that decision.

 

How about some perspective for the comparison? Like by the time Broncos offered up the offer sheet, Bruce was a RFA (under the old definition), he did not sit out a training camp, had gotten his act together and had committed to the team by his actions, not just words.

 

Thus, the comparison to Jason Peters is ....

[Leonidas]

The bottom line for me--Good to great left tackles make $8-11M dollars a year. There is no denying that our guy has made the pro bowl the last two years. He has all the skills you look for in an LT--quick into his pass blocking stance, wide base, good punch and in the run game he has great initial surge and the ability to get to the second level. He is special--but the holdout killed his timing last year--he didn't roll himself into football mentality until about week 7 and then got injured. He is worth somewhere in the good to great range. Continuity is worth something--so the difference between $9 M and $10M a year is basically paying for continuity. We don't want to go into the season replacing 60% of our line...40% is bad enough. If it comes down to $1M year -- just pay him the damn money. Someone else will if we don't.

 

No they don't! Name one not named Jordan Gross and Jake Long.

 

 

The bottom line for me--Good to great left tackles make $8-11M dollars a year. There is no denying that our guy has made the pro bowl the last two years. He has all the skills you look for in an LT--quick into his pass blocking stance, wide base, good punch and in the run game he has great initial surge and the ability to get to the second level. He is special--but the holdout killed his timing last year--he didn't roll himself into football mentality until about week 7 and then got injured. He is worth somewhere in the good to great range. Continuity is worth something--so the difference between $9 M and $10M a year is basically paying for continuity. We don't want to go into the season replacing 60% of our line...40% is bad enough. If it comes down to $1M year -- just pay him the damn money. Someone else will if we don't.

 

None of you people should ever run a franchise. You have no idea what negotiations are. Frankly, $9-10M is FAR too much money for him as is, and if not for the Long contract - and just recently the Gross contract - the number would be much smaller. Funny how you can't compare his salary to Walter Jones or Matt Light or D'Brickashaw Furgueson or Bryant McKinnie or Ryan Clady or Joe Staley or Tony Ugoh. Is Peters categorically better than every one of them? NO!! Ship his ass out and replace him. These contracts are getting absurd.

[The Dean]

None of you people should ever run a franchise. You have no idea what negotiations are. Frankly, $9-10M is FAR too much money for him as is, and if not for the Long contract - and just recently the Gross contract - the number would be much smaller. Funny how you can't compare his salary to Walter Jones or Matt Light or D'Brickashaw Furgueson or Bryant McKinnie or Ryan Clady or Joe Staley or Tony Ugoh. Is Peters categorically better than every one of them? NO!! Ship his ass out and replace him. These contracts are getting absurd.

 

 

I get your point. But, the mere fact that the Bills started the negotiation with an $8 Million offer, says a lot. First of all, it says they don't have concerns about Peters' ability. They must think he is a top flight LT. And, if you are the negotiation expert you imply you are, you know teams first offers aren't their final offer, as a rule. This is the negotiation phase.

 

In the end, if you lose an LT you obviously believe to be great, and worth at least $8 mill a year, over a couple more million, you have screwed up the negotiation, and hurt the team. This is especially true when you are poised to make a run, and have nobody to effectively replace him.

 

It is a natural occurrence, in the NFL, for some of the better players to be overpaid for a year, or two. If the Bills give Peters $10 million, he might be underpaid, by year #3 of the contract. You have to anticipate the market, and the value of your players. So, I would fault on the side of overpaying Peters, rather than lose him, because there is no viable alternative for the Bills.

 

As for you insinuation overpaying Peters by $2/3 Million is negatively related to the sustainability of the Bills franchise in Buffalo is exaggeration of the worst kind. Please, you know better than that. This one contract is totally unrelated to that situation.

[thebandit27]

No they don't! Name one not named Jordan Gross and Jake Long.

 

According to USA Today, here's a list of total salaries for you (2008 numbers):

 

Flozell Adams - Cowboys ($14.9M)

Michael Roos - Titans ($13.5M)

Branden Albert - Chiefs ($9.5M)

David Stewart - Titans ($9.0M)

Joe Thomas - Browns ($8.8M)

Jordan Gross - Panthers ($7.5 M)

Stacy Andrews - Bengals ($7.5M)

 

And that doesn't include any OT contracts from this off-season. Oh, and here's the link:

 

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/footbal...der=Salary+desc

[Kelly the Dog]

Another thing to consider is that of the 24 starters on any NFL team including kickers, out of any given year, IMO, there are approximately four GROSSLY overpaid, approximately four GROSSLY UNDERPAID, about four clearly overpaid, four clearly underpaid, and about eight or so that are paid approximately the amount they are worth. Those numbers could vary but you get the point. Not to mention guys like Fred Jackson who are back-ups and seriously underpaid. So all this talk about a million here and a million there out of 120 million is fun to do but doesn't really matter much. NFL players are simply not usually paid what they are worth.

 

Not to mention that week to week here the same player goes from total bust to first ballot Hall-of-Famer and back.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

No they don't! Name one not named Jordan Gross and Jake Long.

 

 

 

 

None of you people should ever run a franchise. You have no idea what negotiations are. Frankly, $9-10M is FAR too much money for him as is, and if not for the Long contract - and just recently the Gross contract - the number would be much smaller. Funny how you can't compare his salary to Walter Jones or Matt Light or D'Brickashaw Furgueson or Bryant McKinnie or Ryan Clady or Joe Staley or Tony Ugoh. Is Peters categorically better than every one of them? NO!! Ship his ass out and replace him. These contracts are getting absurd.

 

I think it's pretty simple - trade JP and you're not serious about winning this year. You can't flush the left side of your oline and expect to win. I'm sure if you want to run a franchise that way, you can, and I guess the odds are the Bills will trade him are good given our last 9 years....

 

I'm okay with JP holding out again, last year was a new offense and he seemed to have trouble with the protection schemes. This year he will have some experience so it shouldn't be so bad. If they have to "Walter Jones" him, then so be it.

 

Can we get JP to hire Rosenhaus?

 

Trading JP is the equivelent of a move the Pittsburgh Pirates would make - the team that hasn't had a winning season in like 16 years. The same people that are saying screw JP, please don't B word when we miss the playoffs.

[Magox]

No they don't! Name one not named Jordan Gross and Jake Long.

 

 

None of you people should ever run a franchise. You have no idea what negotiations are. Frankly, $9-10M is FAR too much money for him as is, and if not for the Long contract - and just recently the Gross contract - the number would be much smaller. Funny how you can't compare his salary to Walter Jones or Matt Light or D'Brickashaw Furgueson or Bryant McKinnie or Ryan Clady or Joe Staley or Tony Ugoh. Is Peters categorically better than every one of them? NO!! Ship his ass out and replace him. These contracts are getting absurd.

There is one thing that you are not taking into consideration.

 

That argument is based on existing contracts. Any good LT, that is looking to sign onto a new deal as of now, will command $8 Million on up.

 

Just like you say my friend,

 

Apples and oranges.

 

Peters is looking for a new deal. A new deal on good LT's I gaurantee you will command $8 Million +, Reastically $10 Million +

[Canadian Bills Fan]

Im sick of Peters. He went from last off season wanting to be the highest paid lineman on the Bills to this year wanting to be the highest paid lineman in the league. He doesnt want to honor his contract with the only team who took a chance on him. I hate paycheck players

[The Dean]

According to USA Today, here's a list of total salaries for you (2008 numbers):

 

Flozell Adams - Cowboys ($14.9M)

Michael Roos - Titans ($13.5M)

Branden Albert - Chiefs ($9.5M)

David Stewart - Titans ($9.0M)

Joe Thomas - Browns ($8.8M)

Jordan Gross - Panthers ($7.5 M)

Stacy Andrews - Bengals ($7.5M)

 

And that doesn't include any OT contracts from this off-season. Oh, and here's the link:

 

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/footbal...der=Salary+desc

 

 

Thanks. I use the NFLPA website, but it doesn't include bonuses. This is sweet.

 

Actually, the more I think about this situation, the more I think the Bills will eventually pay Peters close to what he is asking for. I know Ralph wants the FO to make the best deal possible (and so do I), but losing Peters over $2-3 Million, would be phenomenally stupid, IMO.

[Leonidas]

According to USA Today, here's a list of total salaries for you (2008 numbers):

 

Flozell Adams - Cowboys ($14.9M)

Michael Roos - Titans ($13.5M)

Branden Albert - Chiefs ($9.5M)

David Stewart - Titans ($9.0M)

Joe Thomas - Browns ($8.8M)

Jordan Gross - Panthers ($7.5 M)

Stacy Andrews - Bengals ($7.5M)

 

And that doesn't include any OT contracts from this off-season. Oh, and here's the link:

 

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/footbal...der=Salary+desc

 

Flozell Adams: $43M/6 years http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...ll.7e04cef.html

Michael Roos: $43M/6 years http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFL&id=3186

Branden Albert (#5 overall pick): $51M/6 years http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/722077.html

David Stewart: $38.9M/6 years http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/conten...NFL&id=3311

Joe Thomas (#3 overall pick): $42.5M/5 years http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2950674

Jordan Gross was noted in my above post. (did you miss the part "name one not named Jordan Gross and Jake Long"?)

Stacy Andrews: $40M/6 years http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpag...NFl&id=2834

 

Only Thomas and Albert - both top five draft picks - make over $8M a year when bonuses are pro-rated, and barely. The phrase "good to great left tackles make $8-11M dollars a year" is just flat wrong.

 

Your numbers are wrong. They are based on non-allocated signing bonuses. Peters wants to be the highest paid lineman in the game which would put him at about $60M/5 years (Jake Long signed a $57.5M/5 year contract).

 

And thanks for ignoring all the tackles I mentioned. Since you won't do the research, let me do it for you:

 

Walter Jones: $52.5M/7 years http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpag...=nfl&id=539

Matt Light: $27.3M/6 years http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpag...NFL&id=1085

D'Brickashaw Furgueson: $37.5M/6 years http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFL&id=3620

Bryant McKinnie: $48.5M/7 years http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpag...NFl&id=1210

Ryan Clady: $14.75M/6 years http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpag...nfl&id=4616

Joe Staley: $8M/5 years http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFL&id=4213

Tony Ugoh: $4M/4 years http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFl&id=4208

[PromoTheRobot]

Thanks. I use the NFLPA website, but it doesn't include bonuses. This is sweet.

 

Actually, the more I think about this situation, the more I think the Bills will eventually pay Peters close to what he is asking for. I know Ralph wants the FO to make the best deal possible (and so do I), but losing Peters over $2-3 Million, would be phenomenally stupid, IMO.

Guarentee me that if the Bills bend over and take it for Peters, he won't slack off and suck like last year, and that he won't hold out again as soon as someone makes a nickel more than him?

 

PTR

[JoeF]

No they don't! Name one not named Jordan Gross and Jake Long.

 

 

 

 

None of you people should ever run a franchise. You have no idea what negotiations are. Frankly, $9-10M is FAR too much money for him as is, and if not for the Long contract - and just recently the Gross contract - the number would be much smaller. Funny how you can't compare his salary to Walter Jones or Matt Light or D'Brickashaw Furgueson or Bryant McKinnie or Ryan Clady or Joe Staley or Tony Ugoh. Is Peters categorically better than every one of them? NO!! Ship his ass out and replace him. These contracts are getting absurd.

 

Part of running a business is analyzing the market for your key talent and then keeping that key talent happy with both the operating environment and their comp package. We're talking 11% -- the difference between 9 and 10 Million and the difference between 54 and 60 million over 6 years. One playoff game makes up the entire pot of revenue.

 

I hope you never run a franchise or a business--you will lag behind because you let difference makers go. Again, his peers think he is the best in the business...you can debate whether that's valid all day long--but it is what it is.

[Leonidas]

I get your point. But, the mere fact that the Bills started the negotiation with an $8 Million offer, says a lot. First of all, it says they don't have concerns about Peters' ability. They must think he is a top flight LT. And, if you are the negotiation expert you imply you are, you know teams first offers aren't their final offer, as a rule. This is the negotiation phase.

 

Yeah, when I first heard they were offering $8M I was shocked. I figured they'd settle at that number in the end, but the fact that they started with that shocked me.

 

As for you insinuation overpaying Peters by $2/3 Million is negatively related to the sustainability of the Bills franchise in Buffalo is exaggeration of the worst kind. Please, you know better than that. This one contract is totally unrelated to that situation.

 

I'm not saying that Peters will set Buffalo on fire, but there is a question of sustainability here in Buffalo. As the salary cap continues to grow there is less and less revenue for the next potential owner. They could always raise ticket prices, I suppose. Would you guys love that? Your ticket prices going up because of people like Peters pouting and throwing tantrums? You could go to the games and watch him give up sacks in person, knowing that your disposable income is less than what it was.