A Couple Of Comments From Sirius Radio

[Bill from NYC]

1) Kirk Chambers was on, and he said that Jason Peters was the best offensive lineman in the NFL. Certainly he could be loyal to his teammate, etc., but this was quite a compliment by any means. Last year Dockery called Peters the "Franchise," and was raving about how strong he is.

My point? Give the man a raise.

 

2) Jim Miller and Alex Marvez were talking about Bills Fans, and how fanatical we are. Miller talked about being "welcomed" while on the opposing team bus. Marvez said that he attended the Bills/Dallas game last year and the place was rocking. He complimented Bills Fans for the strong support of their team. Made me proud I must say.

 

Anyway, can we at least make the freakin' playoffs this year!?!

[ganesh]

Anyway, can we at least make the freakin' playoffs this year!?!

 

Bill,

 

I hope so...It is really maddening every year....Last year was supposed to be the year.....JP was the best young QB in the league during training camp....Only to fall apart 4 games into the season...The defense was supposed to be stronger, while they reduced the rushing yards, they were still 30th in the league....I hope Edwards can step up his game and really take us into the playoffs in a very crowded AFC......Indy/NE/SD are the cream of the AFC.....It is a dog fight for the 3 remaining spots amongst Tenneessee, Buffalo, Cleveland, Pittsburgh Denver, and may be even Houston and the Jets.

 

Note: Pittsburgh is a very good team, but can unravel easily due to their OL.....Big Ben cannot make those plays if their OL does not step up...They have lost Faneca to free agency in what was an ordinary line that put them in 10-6 last year.

 

Go Bills!

[krazykat]

1) Kirk Chambers was on, and he said that Jason Peters was the best offensive lineman in the NFL. Certainly he could be loyal to his teammate, etc., but this was quite a compliment by any means. Last year Dockery called Peters the "Franchise," and was raving about how strong he is.

My point? Give the man a raise.

 

Anyway, can we at least make the freakin' playoffs this year!?!

OK, so Peters is the best, Dockery's great, Walker's excellent, and Fowler and Butler are decent.

 

Trent exhibited tremendous poise last season.

 

Lynch was a beast!

 

So then why couldn't we move the ball better than 30 or so other teams last year?

 

Anyone

[Wagon Circler]

OK, so Peters is the best, Dockery's great, Walker's excellent, and Fowler and Butler are decent.

 

Trent exhibited tremendous poise last season.

 

Lynch was a beast!

 

So then why couldn't we move the ball better than 30 or so other teams last year?

 

Anyone

 

 

FAIRCHILD

[qwksilver]

OK, so Peters is the best, Dockery's great, Walker's excellent, and Fowler and Butler are decent.

 

Trent exhibited tremendous poise last season.

 

Lynch was a beast!

 

So then why couldn't we move the ball better than 30 or so other teams last year?

 

Anyone

So then why couldn't we move the ball better than 30 or so other teams last year?

 

1 HUGE reason may have been our OC and his delightful playcalling

[Chilly]

OK, so Peters is the best, Dockery's great, Walker's excellent, and Fowler and Butler are decent.

 

Trent exhibited tremendous poise last season.

 

Lynch was a beast!

 

So then why couldn't we move the ball better than 30 or so other teams last year?

 

Anyone

 

I wouldn't call Fowler and Butler decent, but to specifically answer your question: When you can't decide on a QB, and have one who is a rookie learning the ropes, without any plays to really go deep, teams are going to stack the box and force you to pass, which was the weak point of the Bills offense last year.

 

As far as Bill's post goes: woooo, I agree

[Bill from NYC]

As far as Bill's post goes: woooo, I agree

 

Still time to change your mind.

[KOKBILLS]

OK, so Peters is the best, Dockery's great, Walker's excellent, and Fowler and Butler are decent.

 

Trent exhibited tremendous poise last season.

 

Lynch was a beast!

 

So then why couldn't we move the ball better than 30 or so other teams last year?

 

Anyone

 

God hates The Bills...That's all I can come up with...

[keepthefaith]

FAIRCHILD

 

I'll go with Jauron.

[OCinBuffalo]

I'll go with Jauron.

nah, he made some questionable game decisions but most were 50/50.

 

The real culprit was Fairchild, with the incessant run run pass nonsense, especially early on. Time after time, at multiple points in the game he just wouldn't call anything even remotely dangerous, and teams picked up on that. Or worse, he would call running plays when we needed a pass and bombs when we needed 4 yards. Way, way too predictable and it happened far too consistently to blame it on Jauron either for micromanaging or for calling one or two plays a game.

 

Like I said during the season, what's the point of having a playbook when your coach is calling the same 8 plays every game? TechmoBowl Football doesn't work in the NFL. That is, unless you let your players play and have free reign to improvise off of those 8 basic plays, or you have a QB like Vince Young who isn't going to care anyway.

[Lori]

I wouldn't call Fowler and Butler decent, but to specifically answer your question: When you can't decide on a QB, and have one who is a rookie learning the ropes, without any plays to really go deep, teams are going to stack the box and force you to pass, which was the weak point of the Bills offense last year.

 

As far as Bill's post goes: woooo, I agree

Yeah, I too was wondering where he got that. As for the rest, good answer.

[Pete]

I wouldn't call Fowler and Butler decent, but to specifically answer your question: When you can't decide on a QB, and have one who is a rookie learning the ropes, without any plays to really go deep, teams are going to stack the box and force you to pass, which was the weak point of the Bills offense last year.

 

As far as Bill's post goes: woooo, I agree

I definitely consider Butler decent and very underrated

[Beerball]

nah, he made some questionable game decisions but most were 50/50.

So, you feel that our HC batted .500 on game day? Some how this doesn't give me the warm fuzzies.

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

I definitely consider Butler decent and very underrated

 

Seriously. Butler is very good in run blocking, and should only get better when he adds more strength. I believe we actualy led the league in ypc behind RG.

[Adam]

Seriously. Butler is very good in run blocking, and should only get better when he adds more strength. I believe we actualy led the league in ypc behind RG.

Butler is decent right now, and still has plenty of upside. Fowler is just along for the ride and Walker is a perrenial underachiever. Those two will hold back our line from being great. We are a little thin on the D-line, have a wet behind the ears QB and RB's who don't pass protect. Not to mention that aside from Evans we have very little for the kid to throw to.

 

It will be a year of relying on special teams, an improved defense and an occasional big play on offense. 6-8 wins, IMHO, but the core is young and still learning, we have plenty of time

[ganesh]

Butler is decent right now, and still has plenty of upside. Fowler is just along for the ride and Walker is a perrenial underachiever. Those two will hold back our line from being great. We are a little thin on the D-line, have a wet behind the ears QB and RB's who don't pass protect. Not to mention that aside from Evans we have very little for the kid to throw to.

 

It will be a year of relying on special teams, an improved defense and an occasional big play on offense. 6-8 wins, IMHO, but the core is young and still learning, we have plenty of time

 

Let us be first good and consistent before being great.....I want this line to protect the QB consistently so that they can keep drives going and providing the right protection so that we do not stall in the red-zone and settle for FGs too often.

[stuckincincy]

Seriously. Butler is very good in run blocking, and should only get better when he adds more strength. I believe we actualy led the league in ypc behind RG.

That big run of Lynch against CIN upped that number. On that play, Walker was on the turf as the CIN defenders missed a sure-fire yardage loss.

 

That's a problem with averages. Eddie George finished up with a so-so YPG, but he was a dynamite player. Moved the sticks, kept the drives going.

[Bill from NYC]

Butler is decent right now, and still has plenty of upside. Fowler is just along for the ride and Walker is a perrenial underachiever. Those two will hold back our line from being great. We are a little thin on the D-line, have a wet behind the ears QB and RB's who don't pass protect. Not to mention that aside from Evans we have very little for the kid to throw to.

 

It will be a year of relying on special teams, an improved defense and an occasional big play on offense. 6-8 wins, IMHO, but the core is young and still learning, we have plenty of time

 

Walker is better than you think. I think that he is a good RT. My feelings about Fowler are well known. Aside from Fowler, I think that the starting OL on this team is better than average. The problem is depth.

I know that it is unreasonable to expect a replacement at LT who is even almost as good as Peters, but we are weak at OC, paper thin at OG and there is simply no excuse, other than the fact that Jauron likes to use his top picks on safeties, McCorners, and corners.

 

That is what holds us back, not Walker.

[Adam]

Walker is better than you think. I think that he is a good RT. My feelings about Fowler are well known. Aside from Fowler, I think that the starting OL on this team is better than average. The problem is depth.

I know that it is unreasonable to expect a replacement at LT who is even almost as good as Peters, but we are weak at OC, paper thin at OG and there is simply no excuse, other than the fact that Jauron likes to use his top picks on safeties, McCorners, and corners.

 

That is what holds us back, not Walker.

Walker is about average, and lacks explosiveness off the snap. If he had an explosive first step, he'd be blowing people off the ball. Our secondary is not good- we needed improvement.

[Captain Hindsight]

nah, he made some questionable game decisions but most were 50/50.

 

The real culprit was Fairchild, with the incessant run run pass nonsense, especially early on. Time after time, at multiple points in the game he just wouldn't call anything even remotely dangerous, and teams picked up on that. Or worse, he would call running plays when we needed a pass and bombs when we needed 4 yards. Way, way too predictable and it happened far too consistently to blame it on Jauron either for micromanaging or for calling one or two plays a game.

 

Like I said during the season, what's the point of having a playbook when your coach is calling the same 8 plays every game? TechmoBowl Football doesn't work in the NFL. That is, unless you let your players play and have free reign to improvise off of those 8 basic plays, or you have a QB like Vince Young who isn't going to care anyway.

The playcalling was too predictible last year. DJ had nothing to do with it this post is spot on..... so thumbs up to you

[Bill from NYC]

Walker is about average, and lacks explosiveness off the snap. If he had an explosive first step, he'd be blowing people off the ball. Our secondary is not good- we needed improvement.

 

Well, you got your wish, or so one would think. I thought we "fixed" it in 06.

 

Think about what this team would look like if we didn't get lucky with Trent and Peters.

[Adam]

Well, you got your wish, or so one would think. I thought we "fixed" it in 06.

 

Think about what this team would look like if we didn't get lucky with Trent and Peters.

I will agree with Peters, we will see about Edwards. Most people were all excited with JP going into last season. This isn't going to be our year, we still have holes to fill and a ton of young players still developing. AFC is too strong for us to make playoffs yet

[Flbillsfan#1]

Well, you got your wish, or so one would think. I thought we "fixed" it in 06.

 

Think about what this team would look like if we didn't get lucky with Trent and Peters.

You can call it lucky, I would like to think it was GOOD evaluation by the Front office.

[Bill from NYC]

You can call it lucky, I would like to think it was GOOD evaluation by the Front office.

 

You don't think that getting a starting, pro bowl LT as a UFA was lucky? Find me another one in the last 30 or so years.

Wrt Trent, he was the 27th pick of round 3. How many teams wish that they took him before us? All of them? We were lucky he was still there is what I am trying to say.

[Chilly]

Walker is better than you think. I think that he is a good RT. My feelings about Fowler are well known. Aside from Fowler, I think that the starting OL on this team is better than average. The problem is depth.

I know that it is unreasonable to expect a replacement at LT who is even almost as good as Peters, but we are weak at OC, paper thin at OG and there is simply no excuse, other than the fact that Jauron likes to use his top picks on safeties, McCorners, and corners.

 

That is what holds us back, not Walker.

 

Sure, sure, making me disagree with you again, I thought we had turned a corner. :grin:

 

Bill - would you have said the OL depth was paper thin if they had signed a couple of FA backups in the off-season? It wasn't taking DBs in the draft that caused it, it was the FO's decision to almost entirely ignore the OL this year that caused it - a move that I don't agree with, they should have spent some money on depth on the line still if they wanted to build the secondary in the draft.

[Bill from NYC]

Sure, sure, making me disagree with you again, I thought we had turned a corner. :grin:

 

Bill - would you have said the OL depth was paper thin if they had signed a couple of FA backups in the off-season?

 

Probably. 9 times out of 10, teams will not let go of guys who can block. Smart Execs. build their teams this way, not through the secondary. If you do find one, he costs about 48 million dollars, right? Look at NE....I don't even know if they have a secondary, and their LBs average about 90. Yet, they are picked by many to return to the superbowl. Why? Lines and QB.

 

 It wasn't taking DBs in the draft that caused it, it was the FO's decision to almost entirely ignore the OL this year that caused it - a move that I don't agree with, they should have spent some money on depth on the line still if they wanted to build the secondary in the draft.

 

Again, not the way it works. There is never a reason to build s football team around the secondary. Do you build a house around drapery? Again, I think we might be in contention because we lucked out with Peters and Trent.

 

Jmo.

[tennesseeboy]

That big run of Lynch against CIN upped that number. On that play, Walker was on the turf as the CIN defenders missed a sure-fire yardage loss.

 

That's a problem with averages. Eddie George finished up with a so-so YPG, but he was a dynamite player. Moved the sticks, kept the drives going.

I always felt that way about Thurman Thomas. His yards were okay, but he was money in the bank getting to the first down marker game after game. He wasn't the guy with all the big yardage runs but he kept the ball and our drives going year after year. I guess it wouldn't be fair to say he wasn't recognized because pretty much every fan in Buffalo knew how valuable he was.

[Chilly]

Probably. 9 times out of 10, teams will not let go of guys who can block. Smart Execs. build their teams this way, not through the secondary. If you do find one, he costs about 48 million dollars, right? Look at NE....I don't even know if they have a secondary, and their LBs average about 90. Yet, they are picked by many to return to the superbowl. Why? Lines and QB.

 

How much do you think a rookie at #12 costs? We're not talking about great guys who can come in and start, we're talking about depth here.

 

 

Again, not the way it works. There is never a reason to build s football team around the secondary. Do you build a house around drapery? Again, I think we might be in contention because we lucked out with Peters and Trent.

 

Jmo.

 

'Cept that most very successful teams have well-rounded teams (and yes, the Patriots have been well-rounded recently - they have played some very good defense to win a number of games). You don't get that way because you specifically focus on one area, you get that way because you target the best players available.

 

Lets take a look at how various good teams built those lines:

 

Patriots: 2nd rounder, 1st rounder, 5th rounder, UDFA, 3rd rounder

Colts: 4th rounder, 5th rounder, UDFA, FA, 1st rounder

Steelers: 4th rounder, 1st rounder, FA, 6th rounder, 2nd rounder

Cowboys: 2nd rounder, FA, FA, FA, 2nd rounder

Packers: 2nd rounder, 7th rounder, 2nd rounder, 3rd rounder, FA

Chargers: 2nd rounder, UDFA, 3rd rounder, FA, 6th rounder

 

Bills: UDFA, FA, FA, 5th rounder, FA

 

As you can see, there is no "right" way to build a line. What matters is that the FO evaluates players well and acquires good players, regardless of where or how they are acquired.

[Bill from NYC]

You don't get that way because you specifically focus on one area, you get that way because you target the best players available.

 

I'll buy that. Will you accept the premise that Jauron (and Levy) focus too much specifically on one area, which is the secondary?

 

I like you. You are funny and a smart young man, but you seem a bit imperceptive.

[Chilly]

I'll buy that. Will you accept the premise that Jauron (and Levy) focus too much specifically on one area, which is the secondary?

 

Yes, but only because they weren't active building depth on the OL in FA this year.

[Guest dog14787]

I'll go with Jauron.

 

Nawwww, twas Fairchild who killed the offense, I swear it was

[WellDressed]

My point? Give the man a raise.

 

 

Then we will have a soup kitchen full of players wanting new deals. NO NEW DEAL!!!

[stuckincincy]

I always felt that way about Thurman Thomas. His yards were okay, but he was money in the bank getting to the first down marker game after game. He wasn't the guy with all the big yardage runs but he kept the ball and our drives going year after year. I guess it wouldn't be fair to say he wasn't recognized because pretty much every fan in Buffalo knew how valuable he was.

 

Yep. I've always disputed with those enamored of Barry Sanders. All the skills in the world, but never a "money" player.

It was always about Barry. Those beer commercials several years ago - "Leon" - always made me think of Sanders.

[Adam]

Yep. I've always disputed with those enamored of Barry Sanders. All the skills in the world, but never a "money" player.

It was always about Barry. Those beer commercials several years ago - "Leon" - always made me think of Sanders.

And those Detroit teams were a lot better than people thought.

[Pete]

Yep. I've always disputed with those enamored of Barry Sanders. All the skills in the world, but never a "money" player.

It was always about Barry. Those beer commercials several years ago - "Leon" - always made me think of Sanders.

Barry Sanders is a God fearing man from Wichita, Kansas who gave 10% of his income to his local church. He would make the most amazing TD runs- and then hand the ball to the ref and walk off the field modestly. As far as a "money player" Barry carried that team. Which Lion QB was gonna help that team win a Superbowl? Chuck Long? Erik Hipple? Andre Ware? If you are hating on Barry Sanders- what do you think of Marshawn and Hardy?

[stuckincincy]

And those Detroit teams were a lot better than people thought.

 

 

Yes - they were decent teams.

 

DET's 70's clubs with Landry, Neumhoff, Karras, Barney, Farr Owens, Charlie Sanders, McCullouch et al were top notch.

 

But like the fine HOU clubs in the'70's that couldn't get past PGH...DET just couldn't get past Bud Grant's MIN clubs.

[OCinBuffalo]

So, you feel that our HC batted .500 on game day? Some how this doesn't give me the warm fuzzies.

That's not what I said

 

I said the ones he missed on where largely 50/50 calls. For example, I think he made great decisions in the Dallas game, but he got screwed by our special teams at the end. Conversely, we had Denver by the short ones, but his clock management got jammed up. It could have gone either way though, and given basically a rookie QB in Cutler, you easily could see the argument that playing it conservative and letting him screw up made sense. It could have gone either way.

 

In general, I think that he looked at his team, and given all the injuries, and therefore lack of experience, he chose to be conservative in a lot of situations. He did this because taking the riskier side of that 50/50 and getting burned would mean a significant shock that veteran players are more likely to deal with than younger ones. It's really that simple. He had a ton of young players last year. He would rather put it on himself than put it one or two young players.

 

Yes I am aware that these are professionals. However, having spent most of my career training and working with 22-25 year olds that have made up a large part of my project teams, they don't really know what that word means just yet. It's not their fault, they have to learn the same as the rest of us when we were that age. It's a human being thing, not a put down.

 

This year, we hope, is different. With a full season of playing, and in many cases starting, very early for most of the players, it's different in that they should be able to handle "it all comes down to them" situations a lot better, and therefore I see him NOT being as conservative as last year.

 

However, if he is, I will be the first to be screaming bloody murder. He's got the people this year to win a lot of games. IMO, he told Fairchild to hit the bricks, and used the nice, easy, media-friendly Colorado St. "transition" as a perfect vehicle. I don't believe in coincidences, and that is surely one. So now he's got the coaches, the players, the $ he needs. It's time to put out or go home.

[todd]

Really? I'm surprised you say that. Barry Sanders is always in the top 5 RBs of all time for me. He could change direction better than anyone I've ever seen - ever. What about him makes you think he wasn't money? He was so money he didn't even know how money he was.

 

Yep. I've always disputed with those enamored of Barry Sanders. All the skills in the world, but never a "money" player.

It was always about Barry. Those beer commercials several years ago - "Leon" - always made me think of Sanders.

[obie_wan]

You can call it lucky, I would like to think it was GOOD evaluation by the Front office.

 

the evaluation was so good - we cut Peters outright

 

yeah - they lucked out

 

but the Bills agree with you that it is standard practice to take UDFA like Chambers and Matt Murphy and turn them into quality LTs- hence no need to acquire a bona fide backup

[obie_wan]

Walker is better than you think. I think that he is a good RT. My feelings about Fowler are well known. Aside from Fowler, I think that the starting OL on this team is better than average. The problem is depth.

I know that it is unreasonable to expect a replacement at LT who is even almost as good as Peters, but we are weak at OC, paper thin at OG and there is simply no excuse, other than the fact that Jauron likes to use his top picks on safeties, McCorners, and corners.

 

That is what holds us back, not Walker.

 

Walker's performance would be commendable if he was one on those UDFA finds.

 

Unfortunately we are paying $25 mil to a guy that needs constant TE help in pass protection and can't get consistent push in the run game.

 

He's the best we have at the moment, but he sure has not earned the big bucks he is being paid.

 

In his defense, part of the problem in the run game is that Lynch runs like a beast, but not in the holes where the play is designed.