Schobel

[smokinandjokin]

What is the opinion of Aaron Schobel around here? I know he has had some big games for the Bills where he has constantly been in the opposing QB's face. However, I have noticed that in many games (and the Chicago game in particular) Schobel tries his speed rush to the outside, and is bumped upfield by the tackle, leaving him out of the play when the QB steps up or hands off.

 

After 5 games this year, he has 9 tackles (4 solo and 5 Zach Taylors), while his DE counterparts Denney and Kelsay both have twice as many. And two of Schobel's four solo tackles have been sacks.

 

My question is this: When we look back at the end of the year, and Schobel has 13 sacks, many people are going to say he had a decent year. However, is he just selling himself out to get sacks with his outside speed rush, that more often than not leaves him completely out of the play? Or is he doing many things we casual fans do not notice, and earning his sacks along the way?

 

Is he the pass-rush asset his stats suggest he is, or is he a run defense liability?

[IBTG81]

Schobel is overrated.

We will disappear for four games, go against a horrible tackle, and register three sacks.

 

Take a look at the game breakdown. He disappears way too much.

[BUFFALOTONE]

Usually the DE in the cover 2 use the outside rush to give the LB or safety a free lane to blitz thru. Now on a down where the offense would be running they would crash inside taking the OT with him and letting the S or LB clean up the outside.

[Acantha]

Schobel is overrated.

We will disappear for four games, go against a horrible tackle, and register three sacks.

 

Take a look at the game breakdown. He disappears way too much.

801938[/snapback]

Why doesn't every DE in the league have the same sack numbers schobel has then? Is he the only one that gets to go against horrible tackles 4-5 times a year? Who are these horrible tackles anway?

[justnzane]

Usually the DE in the cover 2 use the outside rush to give the LB or safety a free lane to blitz thru. Now on a down where the offense would be running they would crash inside taking the OT with him and letting the S or LB clean up the outside.

801940[/snapback]

 

this is true, in a cover 2 defense DE's don't get so many tackles, where schobel had been rackign up quite a few tackles, (71,73, and 60 the previous 3 years) in the previous system. In the tampa 2 system, the DE is going to get more stats from sacking quarterbacks. For example, Simeon Rice, a premier DE in that system never got more than 50 tackles in a season, but would get a ton of sacks (Of course it helps to have a great D like tampa typically has working behind them). This year with tampa being in a state of flux, Rice only has 9 tackles and 1 sack, and do you think anyone in tampa is thinking that he is overrated?

Also, people have to take into account that he gets more attention than Denney or Kelsay, so he gets less tackles due to more double teaming. If you took Schobel off this D-line, kelsay and denney would not be having the stats that they do at the time, and offenses would be carving this defense up even more.

[Buftex]

I don't think Schoebel is overrated, but I also don't think he is underrated...he is what he is, a solid DE, who will do better the more help that he has. He is a very good pass rusher, but is a mediocre run stopper.

 

Schoebel is not the player that Hanson turned into late in his career, but neither was Hanson! I suspect, AS will round out his game more, when/if the Bills defense improves. He is 1.5 dimensional now, with room for improvement.

[stuckincincy]

I don't think Schoebel is overrated, but I also don't think he is underrated...he is what he is, a solid DE, who will do better the more help that he has.  He is a very good pass rusher, but is a mediocre run stopper. 

 

Schoebel is not the player that Hanson turned into late in his career, but neither was Hanson!  I suspect, AS will round out his game more, when/if the Bills defense improves.  He is 1.5 dimensional now, with room for improvement.

801965[/snapback]

Well put. I think most all teams would give him a roster spot and decent playing time.

[Bill from NYC]

Schoebel is not the player that Hanson turned into late in his career, but neither was Hanson!  I suspect, AS will round out his game more, when/if the Bills defense improves.  He is 1.5 dimensional now, with room for improvement.

801965[/snapback]

 

They are different types of players b.t.

 

Hansen had his best years in the 3 years that Bryce Paup was in Buffalo (1995-1997). In those 3 seasons, he had 24 sacks while playing DE in a 3/4. He had 61.5 total sacks in his 11 year career. Teams simply had to account for Bryce and Bruce, and he capitalized well.

Hanson was more stout than Schoblel and better vs. the run, but Schobel is twice as fast and a much better pass rusher imo.

 

I don't think that AS could play as well as Hansen in a 3/4, but he (imo) is a fine defensive end in a 4/3. DEs are very hard to come by, and TD extended the contract of Schobel to a very reasonable figure.

 

I am more that happy to have AS on our football team.

[stuckincincy]

 

I am more that happy to have AS on our football team.

801979[/snapback]

 

Yup. DE's that racks up the sack numbers and backfield tackles are spiffy, but a DE that keeps on his feet and helps contain the outside runs is doing his job. And spins inside and helps deflecting offensive blockers so others get the good shot at tackling the runner. Either case, no gaudy tackle numbers, but effective nonetheless.

[34-78-83]

Remember also that some of A.S's best games have come against the best tackles in the game (ie. Pace, Ogden,etc.), not just against inferior guys he is supposed to beat. Outside contain is also more important for a 4-3 cover 2 DE than in a man to man setup.

[JStranger76]

I think Aaron is solid, and our DE corps as a whole are slightly above average. I would love to find that 4th end who is a pure pass rusher this next offseason if possible somehow. I think the guys we have are decent enough vs. the run where we can just look for a guy who brings the most passrush ability. If we can't land a LT with our top pick, I'd be all for snagging a DE if he merits the pick.

[Ramius]

Why doesn't every DE in the league have the same sack numbers schobel has then?  Is he the only one that gets to go against horrible tackles 4-5 times a year?  Who are these horrible tackles anway?

801942[/snapback]

 

Well, the hot pocket crowd sees 0 sacks in a game from a DE and all of a sudden he sucks. Thats what happens when you look at numbers and dont actually watch the DE's play.

 

And to answer your question, all the good DE's pad sack numbers against inferior LT's. Some people choose not to notice this.

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

I like schobel I think he's a solid de. However I think he lacks any kind of pass rush moves outside of beat his man off the snap and head upfield. This imo is what seperates him from top tier pass rushers, who have more moves then simply relying on speed. Schobel is far too often pushed out of a play, then generating pressure. I'm not really a sack stat guy, I'd have a higher opinion of as could he simply get pressure on opposing qb's on a consistent basis. I think this is one area where his game really lacks, and the main reason why I wont put him in the top tier of de's. He'd be best served with a pass rushing threat opposite him.

[IBTG81]

Well, the hot pocket crowd sees 0 sacks in a game from a DE and all of a sudden he sucks. Thats what happens when you look at numbers and dont actually watch the DE's play.

 

And to answer your question, all the good DE's pad sack numbers against inferior LT's. Some people choose not to notice this.

802067[/snapback]

 

Let's take a look here Rambo.

 

How many times has Schobel been held this year? How many tackles does he have? The fact is, he gets very little pressure on the QB.

[LabattBlue]

Well, the hot pocket crowd sees 0 sacks in a game from a DE and all of a sudden he sucks. Thats what happens when you look at numbers and dont actually watch the DE's play.

 

And to answer your question, all the good DE's pad sack numbers against inferior LT's. Some people choose not to notice this.

802067[/snapback]

Have you ever watched Schobel against the run? He ranges from average to below average. Follow your own advice and watch him play the run some of the time.

[Ramius]

Let's take a look here Rambo.

 

How many times has Schobel been held this year? How many tackles does he have? The fact is, he gets very little pressure on the QB.

802094[/snapback]

 

ok doughboy, how many times does schobel draw the attention of the LT and LG, subsequently freeing up denney and kelsay.

 

look beyond the numbers. try this thing called analysis.

[Tcali]

Schobel is overrated.

We will disappear for four games, go against a horrible tackle, and register three sacks.

 

Take a look at the game breakdown. He disappears way too much.

801938[/snapback]

EXACTLY

[Buftex]

They are different types of players b.t.

 

Hansen had his best years in the 3 years that Bryce Paup was in Buffalo (1995-1997).  In those 3 seasons, he had 24 sacks while playing DE in a 3/4. He had 61.5 total sacks in his 11 year career. Teams simply had to account for Bryce and Bruce, and he capitalized well.

Hanson was more stout than Schoblel and better vs. the run, but Schobel is twice as fast and a much better pass rusher imo.

 

I don't think that AS could play as well as Hansen in a 3/4, but he (imo) is a fine defensive end in a 4/3. DEs are very hard to come by, and TD extended the contract of Schobel to a very reasonable figure.

 

I am more that happy to have AS on our football team.

801979[/snapback]

 

 

My point was, Hansen, early on, benefitted from playing with some great defensive teammates, and became one himself over time. Schoebel has done pretty well for himself, considering the Bills really have no other significant, reliable pass rusher. It can't all be dumb luck. The more talent on the defense, the better they will all play. To me, Bryce Paup was the ultimate "opportunist". He was great in Green Bay (benefitting from Reggie White) and in Buffalo, playing with Bruce Smith. On his own merits, he was a pretty average athlete, but took advantage of his sorroundings, and had a pretty stellar career. You can't fault Paup for that, just like I think you can't say Schoebel is overrated as a pass rusher.

[keepthefaith]

My point was, Hansen, early on, benefitted from playing with some great defensive teammates, and became one himself over time.  Schoebel has done pretty well for himself, considering the Bills really have no other significant, reliable pass rusher.  It can't all be dumb luck.  The more talent on the defense, the better they will all play.  To me, Bryce Paup was the ultimate "opportunist".  He was great in Green Bay (benefitting from Reggie White) and in Buffalo, playing with Bruce Smith.  On his own merits, he was a pretty average athlete, but took advantage of his sorroundings, and had a pretty stellar career.  You can't fault Paup for that, just like I think you can't say Schoebel is overrated as a pass rusher.

802224[/snapback]

 

 

Schoebel is fine if the Bills have 3 other above average lineman to play with him. Right now the other 3 spots look to be average or below.

[IBTG81]

ok doughboy, how many times does schobel draw the attention of the LT and LG, subsequently freeing up denney and kelsay.

 

look beyond the numbers. try this thing called analysis.

802101[/snapback]

 

Rarely (please don't shoot me).

 

Coverage sacks Sherminator...Coverage sacks.