Miyagi-Do Karate Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Who else thinks that Big Ben is overratted beyond belief. His stats are in the middle of the pack and in the super bowl in which he played "great" according to the so called experts the only touchdown was thrown by randle el to hines ward. Big ben throw two picks for 120 some odd yards wow hes a keeper. he was a product of Bill Cower and Bettis. With out randle el or bettis pitt will miss the playoffs 719350[/snapback] This is absurd. Yes, he played poorly in the Super Bowl. But he also played lights out in just about every other game he's ever played in at the NFL level. If you want to know the difference b/w a good QB and a great one, watch Rothlesberger in the red zone. His decisionmaking and his ability to fit tight throws into small spaces in the red zone is amazing--in fact, perhaps the best I've ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 There are certain players that are great and almost perfect for certain teams and Big Ben is one of them. I would suspect that there are several quarterbacks in this league that are better overall players than Big Ben at this point in his career, and yet those same players may not have won a Super Bowl if they were the Steelers QB. He's great for that team because he does certain things extremely well, like keeping drives going. He makes plays consistently that get first downs and allows the Steelers to then control the ball and clock and dominate the game by wearing teams down. Big Ben may throw three straight crappy passes but they are not in one series, and the fourth gets the first down. He's just good at that. He's good at having mediocre to crappy games and then making one great play that wins the game. That doesnt work on a crappy team, and a better quarterback may not make that play to win the game that Ben did. He's just good for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 wow, what are you smoking. LT is the second best player in the league next to Payton. Hands down. As for Big Ben he is going to be a solid player for a long time. As long as he stays off that bike. 719478[/snapback] I never said LT wasn't good, but no I dont think he's better then Tiki Barber. sorry I just dont. Maybe its because Barber has more runs of 20+ yards the last 2 years 27 for barber to tomlinsons 14. Maybe it's because Barber has led the nfl in yards from scrimage each of the last 2 years as well. Just for comparison sake 2004 New York Giants 16 14 322 1518 4.7 72 13 11 77 2005 New York Giants 16 16 357 1860 5.2 95 9 16 72 2004 San Diego Chargers 15 15 339 1335 3.9 42 17 6 68 2005 San Diego Chargers 16 16 339 1462 4.3 62 18 8 71 so for the last 2 seasons Barber has more rushing yards, a better average, longer runs, more runs of 20+ yards more first downs and less tds. rec stats 2004 San Diego Chargers 15 15 53 441 8.3 74 1 3 3 16 2005 San Diego Chargers 16 16 51 370 7.3 41 2 4 1 15 2004 New York Giants 16 14 52 578 11.1 62 2 8 3 18 2005 New York Giants 16 16 54 530 9.8 48 2 5 1 19 once again tiki barber has more yards a better ypc average. More catches of 20+ yards same amount of catches of 40+ yards and more catches for 1st downs But yeah I'm smoking something alright.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 BIG BEN? To be over-rated, you must first be rated very highly. Hands up who thinks BB(at this point in his career) performs at a true probowl type level. O.K. now.... Hands up who thinks BB(at this point in his career) doesn't perform at a true probowl type level. Well there you have it. Most people don't think he is(at this point in his career) a magnificent player...therefore he is not rated highly enough to warrant being the most over-rated player in the NFL. If I had asked for hands up on who people think is going to be a great player...that might have been a different story. JMO mind you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I never said LT wasn't good, but no I dont think he's better then Tiki Barber. sorry I just dont....719520[/snapback] If most people believed the same as you do about Tiki, he would be my vote for most over-rated player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I'd take a player who has horrible stats but somehow helps his team win tons of games. Wouldnt' you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I am gonna go with Kurt Warner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I am gonna go with Kurt Warner. 719581[/snapback] has anyone thought he was any good in the last 3 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Peyton Manning Michael Vick John Lynch Jeremy Shockey John Abraham Nick Saban Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 has anyone thought he was any good in the last 3 years? 719584[/snapback] I think so. Didn't he just sign a big contract this offseason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I think so. Didn't he just sign a big contract this offseason? 719586[/snapback] Warner now has my vote as well "The three-year deal could go as high as $22 million. It has a base of $15 million. Warner went 2-8 as a starter in 2005. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I am amazed at how many people think Big Ben is over-rated. I think this seems to be more of a sour grapes considering that we could have had him if the Jax let us make that trade.... One really overrated QB is Eli Manning. He has done nothing up in New York. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Warner now has my vote as well "The three-year deal could go as high as $22 million. It has a base of $15 million. Warner went 2-8 as a starter in 2005. " 719590[/snapback] Truthfully, I picked him off the top of my head. Was he even voted MVP one season? Imo Pace, Faulk, Bruce and others were more valuable to that team, let alone the entire league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Truthfully, I picked him off the top of my head. Was he even voted MVP one season? Imo Pace, Faulk, Bruce and others were more valuable to that team, let alone the entire league. 719597[/snapback] Yeah, back in the "greatest show on turf" years. I think it was just right guy, right team, right offense...wallah...MVP. Kinda like Big Ben... p.s. I don't hate everything NYC... (I felt bad after I painted that broad brush, if you even recall) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOTONE Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I never said LT wasn't good, but no I dont think he's better then Tiki Barber. sorry I just dont. Maybe its because Barber has more runs of 20+ yards the last 2 years 27 for barber to tomlinsons 14. Maybe it's because Barber has led the nfl in yards from scrimage each of the last 2 years as well. Just for comparison sake 2004 New York Giants 16 14 322 1518 4.7 72 13 11 77 2005 New York Giants 16 16 357 1860 5.2 95 9 16 72 2004 San Diego Chargers 15 15 339 1335 3.9 42 17 6 68 2005 San Diego Chargers 16 16 339 1462 4.3 62 18 8 71 so for the last 2 seasons Barber has more rushing yards, a better average, longer runs, more runs of 20+ yards more first downs and less tds. rec stats 2004 San Diego Chargers 15 15 53 441 8.3 74 1 3 3 16 2005 San Diego Chargers 16 16 51 370 7.3 41 2 4 1 15 2004 New York Giants 16 14 52 578 11.1 62 2 8 3 18 2005 New York Giants 16 16 54 530 9.8 48 2 5 1 19 once again tiki barber has more yards a better ypc average. More catches of 20+ yards same amount of catches of 40+ yards and more catches for 1st downs But yeah I'm smoking something alright.... 719520[/snapback] You are using stats from 2 years lets go back the past 5 and see how Barber compares. Those recieving stats are lopsided due to Gates and Mccardell. Barber in the red zone a few years back was a fumble waiting to happen, pull those stats lets see who coughs it up more. I dont care if you root for your guy but there is no way Barber is better than LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Yeah, back in the "greatest show on turf" years. I think it was just right guy, right team, right offense...wallah...MVP. Kinda like Big Ben... p.s. I don't hate everything NYC... (I felt bad after I painted that broad brush, if you even recall) 719604[/snapback] Nah, I don't remember. I do however understand how there could be some resentment, founded or not. If you ever plan to visit, send me a PM and I will suggest a few spots. THEN, let me know if you hate NYC. PS: I am a true fan of the people and the region of WNY!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fewell733 Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Peyton Manning is the most overrated player of all time IMO. The guy is a major choke artist who's never won anything- disapears when it matters most- and both he and the adoring media thinks he's God's greatest gift to mankind. He's the anti-Brady (except for the media adulation). Vick is also overrated- but most people have caught on to this. McNabb is not overrated. Culpepper is a major question mark. Half a season of mediocrity without Moss raises major doubts- but too early to know for sure what kind of player he can be without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tomcat Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I never said LT wasn't good, but no I dont think he's better then Tiki Barber. sorry I just dont. Maybe its because Barber has more runs of 20+ yards the last 2 years 27 for barber to tomlinsons 14. Maybe it's because Barber has led the nfl in yards from scrimage each of the last 2 years as well. Just for comparison sake 2004 New York Giants 16 14 322 1518 4.7 72 13 11 77 2005 New York Giants 16 16 357 1860 5.2 95 9 16 72 2004 San Diego Chargers 15 15 339 1335 3.9 42 17 6 68 2005 San Diego Chargers 16 16 339 1462 4.3 62 18 8 71 so for the last 2 seasons Barber has more rushing yards, a better average, longer runs, more runs of 20+ yards more first downs and less tds. rec stats 2004 San Diego Chargers 15 15 53 441 8.3 74 1 3 3 16 2005 San Diego Chargers 16 16 51 370 7.3 41 2 4 1 15 2004 New York Giants 16 14 52 578 11.1 62 2 8 3 18 2005 New York Giants 16 16 54 530 9.8 48 2 5 1 19 once again tiki barber has more yards a better ypc average. More catches of 20+ yards same amount of catches of 40+ yards and more catches for 1st downs But yeah I'm smoking something alright.... 719520[/snapback] Interesesting...I'll keep him in mind for FF this year....I didn't realize he was that good. He is under rated for sure....wow...if he scored more he'd be "the man"...you have convinced me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Rich Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Every player that isn't on the Bills is overrated. Some Bills are overrated too; the ones we here @ TBD don't like very much. Okay, move on. Nothing else to see here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 You are using stats from 2 years lets go back the past 5 and see how Barber compares. Those recieving stats are lopsided due to Gates and Mccardell. Barber in the red zone a few years back was a fumble waiting to happen, pull those stats lets see who coughs it up more. I dont care if you root for your guy but there is no way Barber is better than LT. 719614[/snapback] Guys get over fumble problems. At least some guys. It would be extremely hard, IMO, to watch Tiki Barber play a lot the last two years and say he wasn't one of the best RBs in the league. Outside of Shaun Alexander, Barber has probably been THE best. And yes, at least as good and likely better than LT, who is great, too. But Barber has been tremendous. And that receiving comment about Gates and McCardell is just plain foolish. Why didn't you say his receiving stats of 2003 and 2002were lopsided because of a lack of a receiving TE and WR. Except for David Boston for one year, the Chargers WRs were the worst in the entire league. They HAD to throw to LT. If you want to talk the last four years, one would probably say LT overall. If one would take the last two years, it's close, but I would say Barber was better. Who would you want right now? Very likely LT because he is younger. But I have serious worries that LT has been beaten up and may not be the player that he was. That is just an opinion and he could easily have his best season. It just seems to me over the course of the last year the little nicks and turns have taken something out of him (not counting the regular injury he had) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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