If Bills lose the last 4...

[BuffaloRebound]

they will probably have the #3 overall pick. The only teams I don't see the Bills passing are Houston and San Fran. That last game against the Jets will probably be worth a 5 position swing for each team. The ideal scenario would see the young players getting time and playing well, but still losing. Who do you go with - OT Ferguson or DE Williams?

[jester43]

whichever one can't play is the one donohoe will pick.

 

seriously, unless TD is fired, i can't even look at the draft order as a positive...because we're not gonna draft enough good players for it to make a difference.

[The Poojer]

with those 2 teams above us and with Leinert, Bush, and Young as the top of the class for the draft, you trade it for extra picks, move down and grab a stud OL later in the round and keep building

 

they will probably have the #3 overall pick.  The only teams I don't see the Bills passing are Houston and San Fran.  That last game against the Jets will probably be worth a 5 position swing for each team.  The ideal scenario would see the young players getting time and playing well, but still losing.  Who do you go with - OT Ferguson or DE Williams?

522164[/snapback]

[inkman]

they will probably have the #3 overall pick.  The only teams I don't see the Bills passing are Houston and San Fran.  That last game against the Jets will probably be worth a 5 position swing for each team.  The ideal scenario would see the young players getting time and playing well, but still losing.  Who do you go with - OT Ferguson or DE Williams?

522164[/snapback]

 

 

D-line players are usually more apt to have an immediate impact.

[X. Benedict]

they will probably have the #3 overall pick.  The only teams I don't see the Bills passing are Houston and San Fran.  That last game against the Jets will probably be worth a 5 position swing for each team.  The ideal scenario would see the young players getting time and playing well, but still losing.  Who do you go with - OT Ferguson or DE Williams?

522164[/snapback]

 

I am scared what "I will always go for the best athlete before needs" Donahoe would do with the #3 pick.

[30dive]

Trade the draft pick away and bring in some talent, proven talent at the places we need it most...OL, DL and TE.

 

We have a talented bunch at the skills arena but we need an O-line. This rag tag group will never bring us a winning record.

[Tortured Soul]

they will probably have the #3 overall pick.  The only teams I don't see the Bills passing are Houston and San Fran.  That last game against the Jets will probably be worth a 5 position swing for each team.  The ideal scenario would see the young players getting time and playing well, but still losing.  Who do you go with - OT Ferguson or DE Williams?

522164[/snapback]

I came up with 4th. I don't see GB losing two more, and that last game being worth four positions - 4th or 8th.

[Fezmid]

I am scared what "I will always go for the best athlete before needs" Donahoe would do with the #3 pick.

522185[/snapback]

It was ok when Polian/Levy did that though?

CW

[erynthered]

If?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

It was ok when Polian/Levy did that though? 

CW

522192[/snapback]

 

Yes, because they knew wha the frig they were doing, unlike Tom Donohoe.

[Fezmid]

Yes, because they knew wha the frig they were doing, unlike Tom Donohoe.

522198[/snapback]

Because drafting AS, NC, WM, JPL, CK, etc, were all bad picks? Or are we basing the entire "Draft bust" theory on MW? Or am I missing something?

CW

[BuffaloRebound]

I see GB beating Detroit at home this week. Then they are at Baltimore, home against Chicago(rivalry game), and then they have Seattle in the finale and Seattle could have home field wrapped up. So I see one win amongst those 3.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Because drafting AS, NC, WM, JPL, CK, etc, were all bad picks?  Or are we basing the entire "Draft bust" theory on MW?    Or am I missing something?

CW

522208[/snapback]

 

Mike Williams

Josh Reed

and come on...Kelsay? He hasn't proved sh--

let's also throw in Ryan Denney

Ron Edwards

Justin Bannan

Tim Euhus

 

and then there' the free agents:

 

Bennie Anderson

Kris Farris

 

EDIT:

 

Forgot this dandy: JEFF POSEY

 

on and on and on.

 

Try again, Commander Satellite.

[firstngoal]

they will probably have the #3 overall pick.  The only teams I don't see the Bills passing are Houston and San Fran.  That last game against the Jets will probably be worth a 5 position swing for each team.  The ideal scenario would see the young players getting time and playing well, but still losing.  Who do you go with - OT Ferguson or DE Williams?

522164[/snapback]

 

I'd say we need a Left tackle really bad but DE Mathius Kiwanuka of BC could also be an option. I think he's better than Williams of NCSt.

[ganesh]

they will probably have the #3 overall pick.  The only teams I don't see the Bills passing are Houston and San Fran.  That last game against the Jets will probably be worth a 5 position swing for each team.  The ideal scenario would see the young players getting time and playing well, but still losing.  Who do you go with - OT Ferguson or DE Williams?

522164[/snapback]

 

Wouldn't the Jets want to mail in that game to get into the Leinart/Bush

sweepstakes ?

[sweet baboo]

hell, i want in on the Leinart/Bush sweepstakes

 

correction: only interested in Bush

[stuckincincy]

If?

522193[/snapback]

 

I remember 1968, when the Eagles stupidly won 2 of their last 3 to end up 2 and 12, and the 1-12-1 Bills won the OJ derby.

[ganesh]

Because drafting AS, NC, WM, JPL, CK, etc, were all bad picks?  Or are we basing the entire "Draft bust" theory on MW?    Or am I missing something?

CW

522208[/snapback]

 

Fezmid, I agree.......It is sad that TD has not been able to instill a winning

tradition here...His biggest fault has not been the draft picks, but his inability

to get a strong coaching staff......I think his two coaches being rookie coaches

without any prior head coaching experience has really dealt a big body blow

in TDs plans....Draft picks are lottery.....you win some....you lose some...

For every MW and Coy Wire pick we have been successufl at the top of

the board with Clements, and McGahee etc....And we have not done too

bad in the FA pool too....My biggest disappointment is not being able to

sign the right FAs for the OL and DL....Again it is not for lack of trying...there

just was no talent available that they could go after....Like last year

once Wahle and the other guy from GB were off the chart, what we were

left with was mediocre to average linemen.....and as for the defensive side

there was none.........

 

However, like all jobs, irrespective of the cirucmstances/surroundings one

is judged by their end result....After 5 years TD has been a failure at 30-47

with 0 playoff appearances and 0 divison titles...It is time to move on.

[BuffaloRebound]

In regards to Kiwanuka of BC and Williams of NCST, Williams has 25 pounds on him, and Schobel has showed to be a productive player at LDE. Schobel and Williams on the 2 ends would be nice. Then I'd like to see the Bills trade back into the middle of the 1st round and get a stud DT. On a side note, I think Donahoe's biggest problem as a GM is he acts like he is a portfolio manager at a mutual fund. He only looks for value. That works in the stock market but not in building a football team when you have needs that must be addressed and team chemistry to consider.

[34-78-83]

Because drafting AS, NC, WM, JPL, CK, etc, were all bad picks?  Or are we basing the entire "Draft bust" theory on MW?    Or am I missing something?

CW

522208[/snapback]

 

 

No, you're not missing anything. That's the current flavor being sold

[X. Benedict]

Because drafting AS, NC, WM, JPL, CK, etc, were all bad picks?  Or are we basing the entire "Draft bust" theory on MW?    Or am I missing something?

CW

522208[/snapback]

 

I believe that great teams are created with great lines.

 

I don't believe the above were busts save MW, but each one had an

oportunity cost and in some cases failed to address stark need.

 

Polian on the other hand, was a firm believer that you have a star on each unit of the offense and defense and then that player will raise the level of those around them.

[Fezmid]

I believe that great teams are created with great lines.

 

I don't believe the above were busts save MW, but each one had an

oportunity cost and in some cases failed to address stark need.

 

Polian on the other hand, was a firm believer that you have a star on each unit of the offense and defense and then that player will raise the level of those around them.

522320[/snapback]

And TD has done just that.

 

Spikes on defense

WM and/or JPL on offense

 

That was the plan.

 

So tell me again how TD has "failed?" Aside from the lines (as you said), we have good talent. We definately need help, especially on the OL, but this team isn't as bad as people are making it out to be. I still saying blowing everything up will be a HUGE step backwards. How about letting a coach have more than 2 years?

 

EDIT: Yes, I do realize I will be called an idiot by the pitchfork waivers.

CW

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

And TD has done just that.

 

Spikes on defense

WM and/or JPL on offense

 

That was the plan.

 

So tell me again how TD has "failed?"  Aside from the lines (as you said), we have good talent.  We definately need help, especially on the OL, but this team isn't as bad as people are making it out to be.  I still saying blowing everything up will be a HUGE step backwards.  How about letting a coach have more than 2 years?

 

EDIT: Yes, I do realize I will be called an idiot by the pitchfork waivers. 

CW

522332[/snapback]

 

This is an abbreviated list.

 

Mike Williams

Josh Reed

and come on...Kelsay? He hasn't proved sh--

let's also throw in Ryan Denney

Ron Edwards

Justin Bannan

Tim Euhus

 

and then there' the free agents:

 

Bennie Anderson

Kris Farris

 

EDIT:

 

Forgot this dandy: JEFF POSEY

 

on and on and on.

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

EDIT: Yes, I do realize I will be called an idiot by the pitchfork waivers. 

CW

522332[/snapback]

Nah just a die hard fan!!!!!

[Dan III]

Yes, because they knew wha the frig they were doing, unlike Tom Donohoe.

522198[/snapback]

Ask Carolina fans about Polian's drafting and you'll hear names like Tim Biakabutuka, Rae Carruth...

[Rico]

And TD has done just that.

 

Spikes on defense

WM and/or JPL on offense

 

That was the plan.

 

So tell me again how TD has "failed?" 

522332[/snapback]

Close... but the plan was Drew on offense, and as we all know, that was a cataclysmic failure for the ages.

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

Ask Carolina fans about Polian's drafting and you'll hear names like Tim Biakabutuka, Rae Carruth...

522336[/snapback]

Add Kerry Collins

[Fezmid]

Josh Reed

Reed had a great rookie season and has even looked good this year. The jury's still out (and I was a big anti-JR guy in the offseason).

 

and come on...Kelsay? He hasn't proved sh--

Last I checked, he's a starter. He has 2.5 sacks, a FF, an INT, and 4 pass defenses. That's solid.

 

let's also throw in Ryan Denney

Ron Edwards

I'll give you those guys; they play, still on the roster (get points for that), but they're not really very solid IMHO.

 

Justin Bannan

You can't bash a 5th round pick.

 

Tim Euhus

Too early to tell -- he's looked good in flashes (especially before he was hurt last year), but he also stays in to block because of our bad OL. He's only in his 2nd year.

 

Bennie Anderson

No argument there.

 

Kris Farris

Why was this bad? We brought him in, he didn't work out, we let him go. It was definately a move with a LOT of upside and no downside. It's not like we kept him an entire season or anything. You're reaching.

 

Forgot this dandy: JEFF POSEY

Why do people bash Posey so much? The same people who said, "Bledsoe needs a probowl OL, two probowl RBs, two probowl TEs and two probowl WRs to be good," think that we need all pro-bowlers on our defense. Posey is an above average player who is solid but not bad.

 

He's brought in players like Fletcher and Spikes, as well as drafting superstars like McGee (special teams). I still think we need to give the coaches a bit more than 2 years before starting over (and GW only really got 2 years - his first year was with scrubs, 90% of which are probably not even in the league anymore).

CW

[Fezmid]

Close... but the plan was Drew on offense, and as we all know, that was a cataclysmic failure for the ages.

522338[/snapback]

Yeah, 8-8 and 9-7 were cataclysmic failures for the ages. Everyone was so quick to get rid of Bledsoe, saying "Anyone can play better than he does!" Now the rally call is, "Well, of COURSE JPL isn't as good, he's young!"

 

Everyone needs to take a step back and look at the situation as a whole, instead of individual plays. We're becoming a bit too myopic.

CW

[Ghost of BiB]

Bills-Jets...

 

Draft choices...

 

What happens if there's a 0 to 0 tie?

[stuckincincy]

Bills-Jets...

 

Draft choices...

 

What happens if there's a 0 to 0 tie?

522373[/snapback]

 

Game of The Week?

[CoachChuckDickerson]

Ask Carolina fans about Polian's drafting and you'll hear names like Tim Biakabutuka, Rae Carruth...

522336[/snapback]

 

and an NFC Championship game appearance.....

[ganesh]

And TD has done just that.

 

Spikes on defense

WM and/or JPL on offense

 

That was the plan.

 

So tell me again how TD has "failed?"  Aside from the lines (as you said), we have good talent.  We definately need help, especially on the OL, but this team isn't as bad as people are making it out to be.  I still saying blowing everything up will be a HUGE step backwards.  How about letting a coach have more than 2 years?

 

EDIT: Yes, I do realize I will be called an idiot by the pitchfork waivers. 

CW

522332[/snapback]

 

I agree to what you are saying...except for the coaching.....This coaching staff

has not put this team in a position to win.. There is no discipline in any of the

units....Unless we can get a HC or at least OC/DC who can instill some fear

and discipline into those units, we will not improve....

[ganesh]

Add Kerry Collins

522340[/snapback]

And don't forget the great Sean Gilbert.....The panthers paid 45M for

him and 2 1st rounders to the Redskins....only to be a bust......

[Fezmid]

I agree to what you are saying...except for the coaching.....This coaching staff

has not put this team in a position to win.. There is no discipline in any of the

units....Unless we can get a HC or at least OC/DC who can instill some fear

and discipline into those units, we will not improve....

522398[/snapback]

Especially against the Dolphins, the coaching staff made HUGE mistakes. I don't fault them for the pass on 1st down, but they played the 2nd-4th quarters as if it were a Madden football game -- throwing on nearly EVERY play it seemed. The Parrish pass was particularly lame IMHO.

 

That said, I would hope that they've learned from their mistakes, and I'm willing to give the team another year. Remember, we DID go 9-7 last year with the same coaching staff... I'm getting tired of firing our coaches every two years -- Wade, GW, now possibly MM -- and feel that coaching consistency will be a definately advantage for us. Look at Marvin Lewis -- this is his third year in Cincy, isn't it?

 

CW

[MDH]

The Jets are the worst team in the NFL atm. They've scored 1 TD in the past FOUR games. There is no way the Bills lose to the Jets, even on the road.

[TC in St. Louis]

I hope we don't pick that high in the draft. The signing bonus/salary commitment creates huge cap problems, and limits the ability to work the free agent market. The Bills are not one player away from the Super Bowl. I'd trade out of any pick in the top 10, and try to get quantity and quality.

 

I'll miss Eric Moulds, but he hasn't done much the past couple years anyway. He'll find a nice place, probably Denver, to finish out his career in style.

 

Mike Williams? Sayonara. Use the cap savings to sign offensive linemen.

 

Nate? Let Nate skate. Build a pass rush, and that makes any corner look better.

 

There will be some good players coming back from injury. Spikes, Edwards, Everett....maybe solving the TE dilemma, albeit a year late.

 

They will need help at safety. Vincent and Malloy are about to lose another step or two.

[Typical TBD Guy]

And TD has done just that.

 

Spikes on defense

WM and/or JPL on offense

 

That was the plan.

 

So tell me again how TD has "failed?"  Aside from the lines (as you said), we have good talent.  We definately need help, especially on the OL, but this team isn't as bad as people are making it out to be.  I still saying blowing everything up will be a HUGE step backwards.  How about letting a coach have more than 2 years?

 

EDIT: Yes, I do realize I will be called an idiot by the pitchfork waivers.  

CW

522332[/snapback]

 

My pitchfork has 6 prongs.

 

4 problems with this statement of yours: "Aside from the lines, we have good talent."

 

1. The OL and DL alone account for about 40% of a football team, so I wouldn't simply shrug off the amount of rebuilding necessary to get this team back into contention. Not just the starters, either. Even the backups suck along the lines, with the possible exception of the DE position.

 

2. It's not just the putrid lines. We also have serious problems with aging at the LB and S positions, questionable talent at TE and FB, and we may also have to worry about the CB position if/when NC leaves for greener pastures.

 

3. With the way free agency, the salary cap, and the draft are set up, EVERY single NFL team has good talent and at least a couple stars/Pro Bowlers. Part of the trick to being a good GM is figuring out which talented players go well together. To date, TD has done a poor job of doing so. His teams lack cohesive play and heart. After 5 years, cohesion and heart should have long been assembled. The evidence lies in the road record, the second half record, the record against winning teams, the record when behind in the fourth quarter, etc... of the TD-led teams since 2001.

 

4. Talented players are only part of the solution to winning and are therefore not enough. In the pro ranks of football, coaching ability is at a premium. And our Bills team also has coaching problems to resolve. This season has emphasized the reality that Clements and Gray are not very good, and Mularkey in particular may be downright awful. In fact, nevermind Mularkey's poor playcalling. He has shown many times to not have ANY innate leadership skills. I doubt he'll get better by his 3rd year.

 

And 2 more problems with other statements you've made in this thread:

 

5. That Josh Reed is having a good year. My, how quick we are to forget all the drive-killing drops he continues to make . As a perfect example, watch him in the SD game if you have the stomach.

 

6. The idea that Posey is an "above average player," as you say. Not even close. He's a 4-3 Sammy LB'er with zero pass rushing skills and marginal ability at covering RB's out of the backfield, much less TE's and slot WR'ers. Watch the games more closely is all I can say. Crowell is totally outplaying Posey. Posey will be gone by February.

 

That's 6 prongs. Count 'em.

 

TD is done, and much-needed change is coming. Accept it. Embrace it.

[Fezmid]

TD is done, and much-needed change is coming. Accept it. Embrace it.

522476[/snapback]

If so, we won't make the playoffs for a minimum of 3 years. Accept it. Embrace it. You can't change coaches every two years and expect to win.

[Typical TBD Guy]

If so, we won't make the playoffs for a minimum of 3 years.  Accept it.  Embrace it.  You can't change coaches every two years and expect to win.

522481[/snapback]

 

Yes you can. With experienced head coaches, you can.