Thurman, Reed, Ralph HOF semi-finalists

[BuffMoose]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/foot...i.ap/index.html

 

 

CANTON, Ohio (AP) -- Former Dallas Cowboys quarterback Troy Aikman and perennial All-Pro defensive end Reggie White head a list of 25 semifinalists for the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

 

The board of selectors chose them from a list of 112 preliminary nominees, the hall said Thursday. A list of 15 finalists will be announced in mid-January.

 

The class of 2006 will be determined at the selection committee's annual meeting Feb. 4 in Detroit, the day before the Super Bowl.

 

The list of 25 will be reduced by mail ballot to 13 modern-era candidates. The list will increase to 15 finalist nominees with the inclusion of the two recommended candidates of the hall's seniors committee.

 

This year, they are former Oakland Raiders coach John Madden, and former Cowboys tackle Rayfield Wright.

 

Aikman led the Cowboys to three Super Bowl victories and was selected to six straight Pro Bowls.

 

White, who died last December, finished second in career sacks with 198 and was a two-time NFL Defensive Player of the Year. White, who spent 15 seasons with Philadelphia, Green Bay and Carolina, was elected to the Pro Bowl a record 13 straight times from 1986-98.

 

Other modern-era semifinalists are linebackers Harry Carson, Randy Gradishar and Derrick Thomas; center Dermontti Dawson; running back Thurman Thomas; wide receivers Michael Irvin, Andre Reed and Art Monk; defensive ends Fred Dean, Richard Dent, L.C. Greenwood and Claude Humphrey; quarterbacks Warren Moon and Ken Stabler; guards Russ Grimm and Bob Kuechenberg; offensive tackle Gary Zimmerman; cornerbacks Lester Hayes and Roger Wehrli; punter Ray Guy; club owners Art Modell and Ralph Wilson, Jr., and administrator George Young.

[BuffMoose]

Ralph too. Forgot to include him.

[scribo]

More importantly, IMHO:

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/foot...i.ap/index.html

and ... club owners Art Modell and Ralph Wilson, Jr., and administrator George Young.

510207[/snapback]

[R. Rich]

Other modern-era semifinalists are linebackers Harry Carson, Randy Gradishar and Derrick Thomas; center Dermontti Dawson; running back Thurman Thomas; wide receivers Michael Irvin, Andre Reed and Art Monk; defensive ends Fred Dean, Richard Dent, L.C. Greenwood and Claude Humphrey; quarterbacks Warren Moon and Ken Stabler; guards Russ Grimm and Bob Kuechenberg; offensive tackle Gary Zimmerman; cornerbacks Lester Hayes and Roger Wehrli; punter Ray Guy; club owners Art Modell and Ralph Wilson, Jr., and administrator George Young.

 

 

There's a lot of deserving candidates in there.

[scribo]

I'd go with:

Ralph, Thurman, Derrick Thomas, Dent, Irvin, and the Snake. It would also be hard ot pass on Russ Grimm and George Young.

 

I think Andre will have to wait another year or two.

[Mark VI]

There's a lot of deserving candidates in there.

510216[/snapback]

 

...except Bob Kuechenberg, that arrogant POS.

[stuckincincy]

Monk and Guy are my choices.

[R. Rich]

You could make solid arguments for any of the ones listed. LC Greenwood was one heck of a DL for the Steel Curtain and was one of the few smart players to retire before he was an invalid. Grimm, Zimmerman, and yes Mark, even Kuchenberg are all deserving candidates on the OL, as is Der Dawson (the guy who may be the reason Kent Hull never gets to Canton, I fear). Moon, Dent, Derrick Thomas (RIP), and Monk will all get in eventually, I think.

[BRH]

Aikman, White and Madden are locks, I think. As for the other three, my hope is that Thurman, Ralph and Ray Guy go in. But they'll probably put Irvin in ahead of Guy at least.

[KRC]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/foot...i.ap/index.html

CANTON, Ohio (AP) -- Former Dallas Cowboys quarterback Troy Aikman and perennial All-Pro defensive end Reggie White head a list of 25 semifinalists for the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

 

The board of selectors chose them from a list of 112 preliminary nominees, the hall said Thursday. A list of 15 finalists will be announced in mid-January.

 

The class of 2006 will be determined at the selection committee's annual meeting Feb. 4 in Detroit, the day before the Super Bowl.

 

The list of 25 will be reduced by mail ballot to 13 modern-era candidates. The list will increase to 15 finalist nominees with the inclusion of the two recommended candidates of the hall's seniors committee.

 

This year, they are former Oakland Raiders coach John Madden, and former Cowboys tackle Rayfield Wright.

 

Aikman led the Cowboys to three Super Bowl victories and was selected to six straight Pro Bowls.

 

White, who died last December, finished second in career sacks with 198 and was a two-time NFL Defensive Player of the Year. White, who spent 15 seasons with Philadelphia, Green Bay and Carolina, was elected to the Pro Bowl a record 13 straight times from 1986-98.

 

Other modern-era semifinalists are linebackers Harry Carson, Randy Gradishar and Derrick Thomas; center Dermontti Dawson; running back Thurman Thomas; wide receivers Michael Irvin, Andre Reed and Art Monk; defensive ends Fred Dean, Richard Dent, L.C. Greenwood and Claude Humphrey; quarterbacks Warren Moon and Ken Stabler; guards Russ Grimm and Bob Kuechenberg; offensive tackle Gary Zimmerman; cornerbacks Lester Hayes and Roger Wehrli; punter Ray Guy; club owners Art Modell and Ralph Wilson, Jr., and administrator George Young.

510207[/snapback]

 

 

I think it will be Aikman, Reggie White, Carson, Irvin and Dent. You can debate whether Monk will make it before Irvin, but Thurman, Andre and Ralph will be on the outside looking in this year. Young may make it in over Carson.

[ch19079]

Thurman is the man.

 

Reed is the man.

 

[Rico]

I think it will be Aikman, Reggie White, Carson, Irvin and Dent. You can debate whether Monk will make it before Irvin, but Thurman, Andre and Ralph will be on the outside looking in this year. Young may make it in over Carson.

510253[/snapback]

Carson has just cried too much about not getting in though. After Zero Kuechenberg, he's the candidate I'd least like to see make it.

 

My picks: White, Aikman, Thurmal, Dent (only cause Haley's not there) and Madden.

[elcrusho]

I think Thurman may get in, but Andre Reed is not going to get in...but who knows...

[KRC]

Carson has just cried too much about not getting in though. After Zero Kuechenberg, he's the candidate I'd least like to see make it.

510266[/snapback]

 

That is why I think that Young may make it ahead of Carson. I am torn as to which I think will make it, between the two of them.

[Peter]

Thurman should be a lock. He deserves it.

[Just Jack]

Reggie White is a lock. Aikmen probably is also.

[stuckincincy]

Thurman is the man.

 

Reed is the man.

 

510263[/snapback]

 

Reed left the game a whining snot. The voters have memories...

[Wacka]

What the hell is Modell doing on the list? He moved the Browns out of Cleveland.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

I'd go with:

Ralph, Thurman, Derrick Thomas, Dent, Irvin, and the Snake. It would also be hard ot pass on Russ Grimm and George Young.

 

I think Andre will have to wait another year or two.

510220[/snapback]

 

Art Monk deserves it before Derrick Thomas or Irvin. Arguably he deserves it before Thurman does.

[Just Jack]

Art Monk, I believe, has been on the list before, so he should get in before any of the first timers.

[R. Rich]

Art Monk deserves it before Derrick Thomas or Irvin.  Arguably he deserves it before Thurman does.

510358[/snapback]

 

Ralph Wilson deserves it before any of them. Unfortunately, this isn't voted on by the Those Who Deserve It Best Committee.

[Ned Flanders]

Art Monk, I believe, has been on the list before, so he should get in before any of the first timers.

510360[/snapback]

 

This is an annual issue for Skins fans here in DC. Peter King is the one voter who has kept Monk outta the HOF. King gets up the day of the final vote and contends that when he was covering the Giants for Newsday, the Giants always feared Gary Clark more than Art Monk...he claims Monk's catches were no more than "seven yards and a cloud of sideline chalk dust."

 

I dunno, but if you leave the game with the most catches all-time, why should you always be measured vs. Jerry Rice?

 

Put the SU guy in Canton.

[OnTheRocks]

My choices of who will make it in.

 

Troy Aikman

Reggie White

John Madden

Rayfield Wright

Harry Carson

Randy Gradishar

Derrick Thomas

Dermontti Dawson

Thurman Thomas

Michael Irvin

Andre Reed

Art Monk

Fred Dean

Richard Dent

L.C. Greenwood

Claude Humphrey

Warren Moon

Ken Stabler

Russ Grimm

Bob Kuechenberg

Gary Zimmerman

Lester Hayes

Roger Wehrli

Ray Guy

Art Modell

Ralph Wilson, Jr.

George Young

 

Art Monk is so long overdue they should lock the voters in a room until they get it right. I hope Ralph makes it. I think he deserves it. And I will be pissed if they wait to vote him in after he is dead.

[Lori]

Reed left the game a whining snot. The voters have memories...

510338[/snapback]

Some people I've talked to - including a couple of those voters - say Reed's image is far different nationally than in WNY. Whether or not he makes it won't have anything to do with his personality...

 

That said, Thurman's probably got the best shot of the three Bills candidates. I'd like to see Ralph make it, of course, but the subset of voters who covered the AFL (and remember how important RCW was to that league and during the merger) keeps getting shorter.

[JDG]

Reggie White is a mortal lock.

 

Aikman is almost a shoo-in.

 

Thurman Thomas belongs in the conversation of greatest NFL RB ever - only player to ever lead the League in yards for scrimmage for four straight years (even Jim Brown didn't do that), so he should be a shoo-in.

 

Seniors' candidates are rarely rejected, so put in Rayfield Wright and John Madden (though I wouldn't vote for him - broadcast experience isn't supposed to count.)

 

That leaves one slot, for the likes of Irvin, Carson, Dawson, D. Thomas, Young, and Wilson.

 

My ballot:

White, T. Thomas, Aikman, Wright, Moon, and Carson

 

I don't think Moon stands much of a shot, but I think that he eminently deserves it under the HOF rules that are supposed to consider CFL Stats in certain cases.

 

JDG

[stuckincincy]

Some people I've talked to - including a couple of those voters - say Reed's image is far different nationally than in WNY. Whether or not he makes it won't have anything to do with his personality...

 

 

510401[/snapback]

 

Likely - but if the voters have integrity, they will root around to get a clear picture before they cast. And some may conclude that Reed's personality is a factor. But judgement on a person's character seems passe these days, so you may well be right.

[KRC]

That said, Thurman's probably got the best shot of the three Bills candidates. I'd like to see Ralph make it, of course, but the subset of voters who covered the AFL (and remember how important RCW was to that league and during the merger) keeps getting shorter.

510401[/snapback]

 

I agree that TT has the best shot of the three. If Ralph makes it, it will be after he passes. Unfortunately, I do not think that TT will make it this year. The competition is too tough. Maybe next year (I have not seen who is eligible, so I do not know what his chances are).

[lawnboy1977]

Here's what I think the big debate should be about, do stats matter or not?

 

I check this on the HOF website a fe times during the season, if you haven't ever been there its nice to look at during the regular season because they update the top 20 all-time leaders every week. There's constant changes in some of the categories, mainly passing and receiving. I've noticed quite a few people making an argument for stats for guys like Andre Reed and Thurman Thomas, and rightfully so. When you look at the top 20 lists as they currently stand though, I don't think stats are worth a piece of cow dung!

 

Example:

 

Among the top 20 passers in league history(Minimum 1500 attempts)

 

KURT WARNER, DAUNTE CULPEPPER, TOM BRADY, TRENT GREEN, JEFF GARCIA, DREW BREES, BRIAN GRIESE, MATT HASSELBECK, MARK BRUNELL and Brad Johnson. Not exactly what I would call the greatest group of QBs to come out in the last 30 years. Obviously the passer rating system heavily favors the last 15 years of pro football. Brady is of course still very young and has some years left, will be sonsidered for the hall of course because of his rings, the only one of this group I would call HOF caliber, but he's young. You could make an argument for Green, Brunell and maybe Johnson but thats stretching it with the last one. Warner is at the top of this list mainly because of 3 seasons, but it is a minimum 1500 attempts.

 

Conversely, looking at the top receivers of all time(number of receptions):

 

The top ten includes:

 

Andre Reed, Art Monk, Irving Fryar, Henry Ellard, Michael Irvin and Andre Rison. Of all of those, only Irvin is considered by many to a favorite to be voted to the Hall this year. Ellard and Monk have been eligible for years now, and Reed is among the top ten all time in receptions, yards and TDs. Go figure.

 

There alot ho make the argument for stats being a case for the hall, like for Monk and Reed, and I would say its a fair argument. Would you say that guys like Ellard, Irvin, and Fryar should be considred over a guy like Irvin? How about a guy like Testaverder who has 40,000 yards. I would say season averages should play a large part on a decision. If a guy has a short career but excelled in that short time period, ala gale Sayers or Terrell Davis or Irvin, the career stats don' matter.

 

Just a topic for debate, anyone care to throw in their 2 cents?

[jester43]

when i look at the current state of the bills i have to ask myself just why is it ralph belongs in the hall? i'm sure there are some reasons, but over the years he seems to have made more bad decisions than good. there's been a lot more sucking than winning in the past 40 years.

[JDG]

when i look at the current state of the bills i have to ask myself just why is it ralph belongs in the hall?  i'm sure there are some reasons, but over the years he seems to have made more bad decisions than good.  there's been a lot more sucking than winning in the past 40 years.

510491[/snapback]

 

Why does any owner belong in the Hall? i.e. how does one compare the worthiness for the HOF of Ralph Wilson vs. Dermontti Dawson? Its absurd to even try.

 

As for lawnboy's question about stats, Football is not baseball where sheer longevity to pile up certain career benchmarks can punch your ticket for Cooperstown. Football is a far more complex game with many more intangibles. Drew Bledsoe is another guy who is piling up great career numbers, but who should never sniff the HOF.

 

Rather, HOF assessment should be based on some combination of the following factors:

1) Was there a period of years in which this player would alter the gameplans of opponents?

2) Was there a period of years in which this player was the best, or at least among the Top 3 at his position in the NFL?

3) Does this player's accomplishments at his position at least compare favorably with the career accomplishments of other players at his position already in the Hall?

4) Is this player's accomplishments significantly better than the career accomplishments of other players at his position not (yet) in the HOF (and not an obvious lock for the Hall ala Reggie White)?

5) Did this player have an extended period of years of being "very, very, good" in addition to the period of "dominance"?

 

JDG

[KOKBILLS]

Thurman should be a lock.  He deserves it.

510329[/snapback]

 

Amen...If TT is not a 1st Ballot Hall Of Famer the entire process is a sham. The only player in NFL history to lead the league in total yards from scrimmage for four consecutive seasons...Period...End of Story...

[JDG]

Amen...If TT is not a 1st Ballot Hall Of Famer the entire process is a sham. The only player in NFL history to lead the league in total yards from scrimmage for four consecutive seasons...Period...End of Story...

510518[/snapback]

 

 

Yeah, how is it that "Thurman Thomas" isn't a headliner of this HOF class????

 

JDG

[X. Benedict]

Sigh. There is little hope for Steve Tasker.

My only worry is that if he gets in he might try to parlay it into a

broadcasting career.

[The Dean]

Sigh. There is little hope for Steve Tasker.

My only worry is that if he gets in he might try to parlay it into a

broadcasting career.

510525[/snapback]

 

 

 

Very funny (man, Steve REALLY stinks on air, no?)

 

I'd love to see him make the HOF (as a player, of course)...and, perhaps, Guy could open that door a little for him. But, I don't see it happening.

 

With that said, Guy is deserving.

[cåblelady]

I hope at least one Bill makes it. We need another road trip to Canton!

[Mark VI]

Sigh. There is little hope for Steve Tasker.

My only worry is that if he gets in he might try to parlay it into a

broadcasting career.

510525[/snapback]

 

 

[JDG]

         

 

Very funny (man, Steve REALLY stinks on air, no?)

 

I'd love to see him make the HOF (as a player, of course)...and, perhaps, Guy could open that door a little for him.  But, I don't see it happening.

 

With that said, Guy is deserving.

510567[/snapback]

 

Guy used to completely outkick his coverage... I'm not sure he necessarily deserves the title of best punter in NFL history.

 

As for Steve Tasker, they guy isn't even on the Wall of Fame, how can the guy (whom I admittedly consider the Greatest Buffalo Bill) possibly make a case for the Hall of Fame without even being on the Wall of Fame?

 

JDG

[Tcali]

There's a lot of deserving candidates in there.

510216[/snapback]

ABSOLUTELY----this is an extremely strong group---I can see almost all of them getting in eventually.

[Tcali]

Amen...If TT is not a 1st Ballot Hall Of Famer the entire process is a sham. The only player in NFL history to lead the league in total yards from scrimmage for four consecutive seasons...Period...End of Story...

510518[/snapback]

TT should be a lock.

[Tcali]

Reggie White is a mortal lock.

 

Aikman is almost a shoo-in.

 

Thurman Thomas belongs in the conversation of greatest NFL RB ever - only player to ever lead the League in yards for scrimmage for four straight years (even Jim Brown didn't do that), so he should be a shoo-in.

 

Seniors' candidates are rarely rejected, so put in Rayfield Wright and John Madden (though I wouldn't vote for him - broadcast experience isn't supposed to count.) 

 

That leaves one slot, for the likes of Irvin, Carson, Dawson, D. Thomas, Young, and Wilson. 

 

My ballot:

White, T. Thomas, Aikman, Wright, Moon, and Carson

 

I don't think Moon stands much of a shot, but I think that he eminently deserves it under the HOF rules that are supposed to consider CFL Stats in certain cases.

 

JDG

510434[/snapback]

Thurman does NOT belong in the conversation of greatest NFL RB ever. But he was still a great great back who should make it first ballot. TT is not in the same league as Jim Brown.OJ,Gale Sayers,Payton,etc.