Did my eyes deceive me, or did Tampa Bay ...

[dave mcbride]

that's what it looked like to me. they ran straight at his position all day long. it was shades of parcells instituting the "mickey washington" plan in 1994 and slicing up the bills d.

[Coach Tuesday]

Yes.

 

Ron Edwards doesn't belong in this league. Year 3, contract year, and he's flat-out awful against scrub o-linemen.

[daquixers_is_back]

Yes.

 

Ron Edwards doesn't belong in this league.  Year 3, contract year, and he's flat-out awful against scrub o-linemen.

445364[/snapback]

 

I would'nt go as far as calling him flat out awful based on one bad game ... but I do think that we should have re-signed Pat Williams.

[Estro]

I've quoted this b4, but last yr I lived right next door to izell reese in my apt complex. i asked his take on if he thought ron edwards could step up to fill pat william's spot. He thought for about 10 seconds b4 saying anything, choosing over his words, and said I would do everything possible to keep pat here for one more year and keep the defense intact.

[Thailog80]

I've quoted this b4, but last yr I lived right next door to izell reese in my apt complex.  i asked his take on if he thought ron edwards could step up to fill pat william's spot.  He thought for about 10 seconds b4 saying anything, choosing over his words, and said I would do everything possible to keep pat here for one more year and keep the defense intact.

445434[/snapback]

 

Izell should've worked harder at keeping himself on the team.

[Sound_n_Fury]

Izell should've worked harder at keeping himself on the team. 

445436[/snapback]

 

Ye Old Pot n' Kettle story, huh...

[dave mcbride]

I've quoted this b4, but last yr I lived right next door to izell reese in my apt complex.  i asked his take on if he thought ron edwards could step up to fill pat william's spot.  He thought for about 10 seconds b4 saying anything, choosing over his words, and said I would do everything possible to keep pat here for one more year and keep the defense intact.

445434[/snapback]

 

i remember that post. edwards is a good substitute situational passing-situation dt, but i fear not much more than that. he was godawful in 2002, and while i hoped (probably against hope) that he had miraculously improved, but i fear i'm wrong.

[BADOLBILZ]

i remember that post. edwards is a good substitute situational passing-situation dt, but i fear not much more than that. he was godawful in 2002, and while i hoped (probably against hope) that he had miraculously improved, but i fear i'm wrong.

445678[/snapback]

 

No doubt, Tampa had their way with Edwards and the Texans actually had a few decent runs at him last week. He's not very active versus the run, he stands up, locks on and gets steered aside. What really blows is that Tim Anderson is incredibly bad. Let's not forget, this guy was a high pick too, and he is a boy among men out there. I don't disagree with letting Williams go, he and Adams were a mismatched pair because neither excelled as a clogger and Adams was by far the better of the two. Their lack of discipline usually showed up against good teams like NE and Pitt. But the Bills should have sought out a two gap, nose tackle type to complement Adams.

[nfreeman]

that's what it looked like to me. they ran straight at his position all day long. it was shades of parcells instituting the "mickey washington" plan in 1994 and slicing up the bills d.

445322[/snapback]

 

 

DM -- I agree that Edwards is far from a solid DT, and that we need somebody else if not this year then definitely next, but I hope there is no implication in this thread that he is to blame for this loss. The D got butt-whipped all over the field -- no pass rush, plenty of 3rd down conversions allowed, etc. Losing Fletcher in the 2nd half hurt, as did the offense going 3-and-out the entire game, but the TB O soundly beat our D. I note that for a D that aspires to all-time great status, it has now been waxed in 2 of the last 3 games.

 

If we are going to single one guy out for the bulk of the blame for this loss, we all know who that person is. As I have said from the get-go, we have great special teams, a very-good-to-great D and very-good-to-great skill players. We will be in the playoffs if JP plays average-to-good. It will be a long season if he stinks, as he did today. (Although I must point out that Mike Williams did not block ANYBODY on the safety).

 

I think JP will be more up than down, but this is more hope than any kind of rational analysis. We are kidding ourselves if we are expecting a Roethlisburger season. We are also kidding ourselves if we think we know enough to evaluate how JP is going to do long-term. We just need to ride out the storm. In the meantime, let's remember that Bledsoe, no fewer than 6 times last year, was at least as bad as JP was today.

[Simon]

I note that for a D that aspires to all-time great status, it has now been waxed in 2 of the last 3 games.

In the two games you are refering to the Bills D gave up an average of 290yrds of total offense, forced 4 turnovers, scored a TD and held their opponents (who were a combined 17-1) to an 18 pt average on days when their counterparts on offense helped them by racking up a total of 200yrds/game and going 6-26 on 3rd down.

If you consider a defense that held up that well to have "been waxed", then congrats to the Bills for having set a deliciously lofty standard.

 

(Although I must point out that Mike Williams did not block ANYBODY on the safety).

In what I think may have been the 3rd qrtr JP chucked a deep ball down the sidelines into the Bucs double that Moulds broke up with a good strong play. The reward for his efforts was to get drilled by Greg Spires who had just abused the Bills RT. I was just passing through the room and assumed it was BigMike but seeing that he got hurt, I'm now wondering if it was indeed him. Am also wondering when he got hurt and who filled in teh rest of the way.

[dave mcbride]

No doubt, Tampa had their way with Edwards and the Texans actually had a few decent runs at him last week.  He's not very active versus the run, he stands up, locks on and gets steered aside.  What really blows is that Tim Anderson is incredibly bad.  Let's not forget, this guy was a high pick too, and he is a boy among men out there.  I don't disagree with letting Williams go, he and Adams were a mismatched pair because neither excelled as a clogger and Adams was by far the better of the two.  Their lack of discipline usually showed up against good teams like NE and Pitt.  But the Bills should have sought out a two gap, nose tackle type to complement Adams.

445768[/snapback]

 

badol - remeber that for the pick immediately before the bills picked anderson, the panthers took randy starks? he was said to have late first-early second round talent, but was also alleged to be something of a bad citizen. that's supposedly why he dropped. my understanding is that he's turning out to be a very good player for carolina.

[dave mcbride]

DM -- I agree that Edwards is far from a solid DT, and that we need somebody else if not this year then definitely next, but I hope there is no implication in this thread that he is to blame for this loss.  The D got butt-whipped all over the field -- no pass rush, plenty of 3rd down conversions allowed, etc.  Losing Fletcher in the 2nd half hurt, as did the offense going 3-and-out the entire game, but the TB O soundly beat our D.  I note that for a D that aspires to all-time great status, it has now been waxed in 2 of the last 3 games.

 

If we are going to single one guy out for the bulk of the blame for this loss, we all know who that person is.  As I have said from the get-go, we have great special teams, a very-good-to-great D and very-good-to-great skill players.  We will be in the playoffs if JP plays average-to-good.  It will be a long season if he stinks, as he did today.  (Although I must point out that Mike Williams did not block ANYBODY on the safety).

 

I think JP will be more up than down, but this is more hope than any kind of rational analysis.  We are kidding ourselves if we are expecting a Roethlisburger season.  We are also kidding ourselves if we think we know enough to evaluate how JP is going to do long-term.  We just need to ride out the storm.  In the meantime, let's remember that Bledsoe, no fewer than 6 times last year, was at least as bad as JP was today.

445811[/snapback]

 

neil - i'm certainly not implying that he was the main reason. it was just an one instance of ineptitude among many (as you point out). losman was terrible -- really inaccurate.

[LabattBlue]

What really blows is that Tim Anderson is incredibly bad.  Let's not forget, this guy was a high pick too, and he is a boy among men out there.

445768[/snapback]

But he graded highly going "one on one" against Krumrie in the definitive test that determines whether you will be an NFL dud or and NFL All-Pro!

[GG]

Let's not let the middle LBs off the hook. My fears of London Fletcher being tossed around like a rag doll by interior linemen were realized.

 

Few teams can have the luxury of two solid interior linemen. Edwards is simply average. But when you add Edwards, Andesron & whoever else in the middle, and put LBs who have troubles shedding blocks, that's not a good scenario.

 

Silver lining is that I don't believe that many teams will be consistent with that gameplan against us, because you wouldn't expect the offense to lay an egg like they did yesterday and Cadillac does seem to be a special talent.

 

But until Bils find a fix to the middle D, it's an early playoff exit team (at best)

[ganesh]

I would'nt go as far as calling him flat out awful based on one bad game ... but I do think that we should have re-signed Pat Williams.

445371[/snapback]

 

Here we go again....the Pat Williams bandwagon is back.........

 

Sam Adams was equally inefficient yesterday as much as Ron Edwards...

Also the DEs did not provide good run support with all those long run.....

 

Bottom line is we were playing in a enemy territory and got creamed....

The good thing is it happened early in the season....Time to move on....

Don't give up on Ron Edwards or others and don't go carping about

Ex-players....

 

Look at the Minnesota defense....what has PW done for them.....The

Bengals harassed them all day long.....

[AKC]

i remember that post. edwards is a good substitute situational passing-situation dt, but i fear not much more than that. he was godawful in 2002, and while i hoped (probably against hope) that he had miraculously improved, but i fear i'm wrong.

445678[/snapback]

 

Your description of him is exactly what he is- he's a poor run stopper because he plays too high and he's easily managed by one blocker, he simply can not maintain his ground. He should be a positional pass rusher, where his high center of gravity doesn't render him useless, but instead he's pulled out of all of our pass packages. We face far too many good runners this season and the strategy to play us has now been established. I feared it would become clear about week 6, but with it showing up already we're in major trouble.

 

We had at least one opportunity to address the problem of Edwards when Corey Simon was being shopped but we did nothing. We will come to regret it.

 

Looming Doom

[dave mcbride]

Your description of him is exactly what he is- he's a poor run stopper because he plays too high and he's easily managed by one blocker, he simply can not maintain his ground. He should be a positional pass rusher, where his high center of gravity doesn't render him useless, but instead he's pulled out of all of our pass packages. We face far too many good runners this season and the strategy to play us has now been established. I feared it would become clear about week 6, but with it showing up already we're in major trouble.

 

We had at least one opportunity to adress the problem of Edwards when Corey Simon was being shopped but we did nothing. We will come to regret it.

 

Looming Doom

446310[/snapback]

 

agreed about simon. my gut tells me that the bills shied away because of two things: money and his being really out of shape. of course, we're probably about to see him play himself back into shape fairly quickly. how's randy starks playing for carolina?

[AKC]

agreed about simon. my gut tells me that the bills shied away because of two things: money and his being really out of shape. of course, we're probably about to see him play himself back into shape fairly quickly.  how's randy starks playing for carolina?

446360[/snapback]

 

Starks was pretty quiet playing for the Titans against Pitt last week but it looks like he had a good game yesterday against the Ravens with 3 tackles, 4 assists and a half a sack.

[dave mcbride]

Starks was pretty quiet playing for the Titans against Pitt last week but it looks like he had a good game yesterday against the Ravens with 3 tackles, 4 assists and a half a sack.

446540[/snapback]

thanks. titans. i meant titans!

[R. Rich]

Your description of him is exactly what he is- he's a poor run stopper because he plays too high and he's easily managed by one blocker, he simply can not maintain his ground. He should be a positional pass rusher, where his high center of gravity doesn't render him useless, but instead he's pulled out of all of our pass packages. We face far too many good runners this season and the strategy to play us has now been established. I feared it would become clear about week 6, but with it showing up already we're in major trouble.

 

We had at least one opportunity to address the problem of Edwards when Corey Simon was being shopped but we did nothing. We will come to regret it.

 

Looming Doom

446310[/snapback]

 

 

Exactly, AKC. Edwards was playing way too high yesterday. I saw one play where he got blocked and because of how he couldn't keep his pad level down, he turned sideways as Cadillac zoomed right past him. He needs to get low if he's going to stop anyone from running inside on the Bills.

[R. Rich]

Starks was pretty quiet playing for the Titans against Pitt last week but it looks like he had a good game yesterday against the Ravens with 3 tackles, 4 assists and a half a sack.

446540[/snapback]

 

Starks and Haynesworth are a great pair for the Titans inside. I was high on Starks' ability last year around draft time. I thought he'd be one of those linemen who would do well in either a 3-4 or a 4-3 front. He did not disappoint last year as a rookie, either. Like another rookie of theirs, Ben Troupe, once he got in there to play, he showed that he was pretty darn good.

[dave mcbride]

Starks and Haynesworth are a great pair for the Titans inside.  I was high on Starks' ability last year around draft time.  I thought he'd be one of those linemen who would do well in either a 3-4 or a 4-3 front.  He did not disappoint last year as a rookie, either.  Like another rookie of theirs, Ben Troupe, once he got in there to play, he showed that he was pretty darn good.

446578[/snapback]

 

if only the bills and titans' draft order were reversed! who knows, though - perhaps the bills liked anderson more than starks. i think it's pretty fair to say that starks -- who actually plays -- is a helluva lot better than anderson so far.

[34-78-83]

My eyes have seen a good deal of progress by Edwards coming into the season, but yesterday he sure looked like the guy who started in 2002 who couldn't do anything to stop the run. In fact, he and Sam both played rather poorly I thought. I'm sure the heat didn't help much either.

[R. Rich]

if only the bills and titans' draft order were reversed! who knows, though - perhaps the bills liked anderson more than starks.  i think it's pretty fair to say that starks -- who actually plays -- is a helluva lot better than anderson so far.

446585[/snapback]

 

It was 'safe' to say that last year @ draft time too, dave. The Terps have had a recent run of quality defenders going into the NFL: Shawne Merriman this year, Starks and Madieu Williams last year, EJ Henderson the year prior, and Kris Jenkins a few years earlier. They have been better @ recruiting, especially since Freidgen became their coach, but in most cases, players leave MD better than when they arrived. Recently, they haven't missed the mark much talent-wise.

[AKC]

Exactly, AKC.  Edwards was playing way too high yesterday.  I saw one play where he got blocked and because of how he couldn't keep his pad level down, he turned sideways as Cadillac zoomed right past him.  He needs to get low if he's going to stop anyone from running inside on the Bills.

446573[/snapback]

 

I can tell you I've watched him very closely this pre-season and the first two games and I've been ragging him the whole time- his high center of gravity appears to be a physical problem, I don't beleive he'll ever become an even average run stopper because of that handicap. The shame though is that the one thing he does at maybe a better-then-average is pass rush and we're pulling him off the field on passing downs! Yesterday the strategy, which obviously requires that Sam Adams play in almost every defensive set, bit us in the butt real hard with Sam simply getting wasted in the heat. The reality is that as a stop-gap measure Sam should be sitting in our nickel and dime sets and Edwards playing them, and allowing Anderson- who does have some strength and lateral ability plus he plays low- to get time next to Sam in our base running package. I have zero faith that Edwards will ever become a competent run stopper and if the season rides on him getting better we should expect a lot more games like yesterday's. Time to pull the trigger IMO if we harbor any intention of trying to finish at .500 or better.

[dave mcbride]

It was 'safe' to say that last year @ draft time too, dave.  The Terps have had a recent run of quality defenders going into the NFL:  Shawne Merriman this year, Starks and Madieu Williams last year, EJ Henderson the year prior, and Kris Jenkins a few years earlier.  They have been better @ recruiting, especially since Freidgen became their coach, but in most cases, players leave MD better than when they arrived.  Recently, they haven't missed the mark much talent-wise.

446590[/snapback]

 

yeah, good point -- they have a good run of late. that said, ohio state has been known to produce a good player or two. i did hear starks dropped because of "character" issues, although i don't know what that was about. donohoe/modrak put a lot of stock in that stuff (not that they shouldn't). i don't even mean to denigrate the pick: 75th or so overall is basically a crapshoot, and the bills did pretty well with their first two picks. i had hoped to see anderson make at least one play 18 games into his professional career, however ...

[R. Rich]

yeah, good point -- they have a good run of late. that said, ohio state has been known to produce a good player or two. i did hear starks dropped because of "character" issues, although i don't know what that was about. donohoe/modrak put a lot of stock in that stuff (not that they shouldn't).  i don't even mean to denigrate the pick: 75th or so overall is basically a crapshoot, and the bills did pretty well with their first two picks.  i had hoped to see anderson make at least one play 18 games into his professional career, however ...

446603[/snapback]

 

 

Therein lies the difference in Maryland and Ohio State. OSU has a much bigger college football presence than Maryland, so they get the blue chip talents. Guys like Ted Ginn, who was considered the best athlete to come out of Ohio since Jesse Owens, aren't so tough for them to land. Maryland doesn't have that kind of clout. They get good players, to be sure, but they seem to develop their players a bit better than OSU.