A Few Thoughts about the Pats Game (Part Two) - Community Edition - Post yours as well

[Virgil]

I think I'm finally starting to come to terms with the concept that the Bills of 2023 and before are gone, but that doesn't mean the current Bills are any less deadly.  Yes, there are huge inconsistencies with this team and the heart attack moments seem to be more predominant, but the results have us a game back of the division and 2 back of the conference.  So instead of complaining about how our wide receivers are more of an afterthought and how our high paid defensive players aren't making the impact we'd hoped, I'm going to embrace the situation for what it is and only compare it to what McD seems to want for our identity.  

 

1 - Milano - Of all the pleasant surprises from this game, none were more impactful to me that seeing Milano show flashes of his former dominant self.  Not only did he get two sacks on the day, he showed great instincts against the run and was quick to his gaps.  Both of his sacks were high effort sacks in that he had to work his way through guys and stay with the play.  He even managed to put a little extra on his hit to Diggs.  If this trend continues, this could be a huge boost to our defense.  As a huge Milano fan, it's great to be able to call him out again in these thoughts.  Side note, did anyone figure out what the personal foul against Milano was for?  I saw him get punched, but did not see Milano do anything to merit a flag.

 

2 - Davis - In each of the last three weeks, there was a moment that really seemed to spark our comebacks and wake us up from our dormant rests.  In this game, and even called out by Josh himself, Davis' second half kick off return into Patriots territory appeared to be that spark.  Davis had multiple great KO returns and is now apparently up in the ranks of overall top KO returners.  It's great to see him finding a way to make an impact and hopefully can use this to generate more touches elsewhere.

 

3 - Josh - Unlike the previous weeks, Josh seemed like he was on his game early.  Yes, we punted early in the game (which I still question not going for it), but Josh was making the throws he needed to.  Unfortunately, the pass rush and poor hands of those around him didn't help him get the job done.  However, once we got rollling, Josh was masterful with the ball in his hands.  You could heard the zip on the ball for the last Knox TD.  The velocity that Josh can generate while on the run is absolutely insane and allowed him to take advantage of the brief separation Knox was able to get.  Josh seemed to only be slowed down by play calling and the faltering of those around him.  My only criticism is that Josh is a little slow getting his passes to the flats.  I understand that he's trying to make something happen downfield, but his delay in those shorter throws is allowing the defenders to close in quicker and not give the receiver time to catch, adjust, and make a move in space.  

 

4 - Knox - While I'm doing my best to lay off of Brady, it's hard to not believe that Knox was being asked to block more than run routes prior to Kincaid's injuries.  Less we forget, Knox was a favorite target of Allen, especially in the end zone.  Knox's performance made the drafting of Kincaid perplexing, but the hope at the time was we would see an offense similar to the Gronk/Gonzalez one in New England (you know, minus the murder).  Sadly, Knox appeared to take a back seat to Kincaid be relegated to blocking and chipping duty. Seeing Knox get more involved in the passing game, being able to find space against linebackers, all while still contributing to the run game has been a huge boost to this offense.  I really hope we continue to see Knox and Kincaid be featured as it's a big mismatch for opposing defenses as well as sets up our play-action passing game.

 

5 - Bosa - I think one of my biggest rollercoaster moments of the game was on the final 4th and 5.  To say that I was red in the face when I saw Bosa drop back to spy Maye on that play would be an understatement.  On a play where we know it's a pass, and to have our best pass rusher drop off the line....  But needless to say, Bosa pounced as soon as Maye left the pocket and batted down the pass.  This is the type of impact we need (I'm looking at you Groot).  Someone who show's up in big moments.  I hope the game didn't aggravate his hamstring and I'm perfectly fine reducing his snap count and saving him for the playoffs.  We need him.

 

6 - Replay - Can someone explain to me why the Bills didn't have footage of the first 3rd and long pass for the Patriots that should have been ruled incomplete?  According to McD's presser, he said he only saw one replay on the scoreboard and that was it.  That was such a huge play that would have given the Bills the ball back, but instead resulted in 6 for the Pats.  Then, the next two times when replay assist does take affect, goes against the Bills.  On that alone, all the griping by Pats fans about the officials can kick rocks.  Those complaining about the non-hold call against Dawkins are just plain wrong.  Even Watt called out that the defender leaned into Dawkins and pretty much ran himself into the ground.  I thought Dawkins did a great job to get his other arm up for the ref.  As for the bizarre PI that resulted in a Shakir catch?  I have no idea what happened there.  Either way, those saying Josh begged for a flag or that it came in late are just plain wrong.  The ref had his hand in his pocked for the flag before the defender tried to turn his head back.  From that point on, it was going to be a Bills first down regardless of anything else.  Maybe I'm a homer and because the calls went out way, I didn't pay attention as much?  Who knows?  It all seemed to balance itself out.  But Vrabel complaining about the lack of offensive holding the day after makes me like him even less.  

 

7 - 21-0 - I'll be honest, I was ready to turn the game off at this point.  I knew it wasn't going to be a blow-out and Josh would figure something out, but the poor tackling was killing me.  Between the Pats receivers making great contested catches and our defenders slipping off tackles like the Pats players were greased up, the frustration was real.  However, I had to remind myself that the Pats were coming off a bye week and McDaniels is very good at scripted and trick plays.  It did seem like once McDaniel's got through his bag of tricks and had to call responsive plays, leading Maye to have to make multiple reads, our defense finally settled in.  Up until that point, Maye only had two incomplete passes.  I'm not going to complain about the how, because the result matters, but I am very worried still that we will try to give playoff teams this type of cushion and we won't be able to come back.

 

8 - "No Block, No Rock" - At one point in the game, it was mentioned that Shakir made a comment to the media during the week that it's widely accepted in the receivers room that if you aren't willing to block, then you won't be part of the passing game.  That really stood out to me, and I have to wonder how that's really playing out amongst the receivers.  The everybody eats mentality may have worked when everyone was getting at least 3-5 catches a game.  But with most of the passes going to backs and TE's, it seems to be more block and no rock.  Is that something that's going to entire receivers to want to come here.  Is this slowing the effort/desire of players like Coleman and Palmer?  Palmer had some terrible blocks in this game and we all know about Coleman's effort levels.  I have no idea either way, but it's still something that really stood out to me.

 

9 - RB's - I was really happy to see Brady not get away from running the ball with Cook even when we were down early.  It was slow goings at first, but Cook finally found some space and made quite the impact in this game with three total touchdowns.  While he didn't break a big one, Cook was able to get nice chunks of 5-8 yards a few times, as well as contributed more in the passing game beyond just flat routes.  I'm still not quite sure why Johnson is getting more reps in the run than Davis, but it seemed to work out.  The game sealing run by Johnson was a nice change of pace play.

 

10 - Maye - I feel comfortable saying that Maye vs Allen will be much watch TV for the next decade.  Maye's pocket awareness, deep ball accuracy, and overall touch is impressive for a second year player.  He may not have the arm or mobility that Josh has, but that doesn't mean both are not still a cut above the rest of the league.  Maye proved he can still get confused by the defense, but overall played a solid game.  The Pats will need to pay him after next year, but with that rookie RB, 100 mil to spend, and a decent coaching staff, they should be able to get him a #1 receiver, build a defense, and be contenders for a while to come.

 

 

On to Cleveland where I hope Brady doesn't think Garrett can be single man blocked.

 

Go Bills!!!!

[th3fly]

I noticed that the line play changed in our favor after Phillips went out and our rookie DT was able to generate some push back.  Second half stats spell this out.  

[Sojourner]

Great post as always @Virgil

 

Davis has been instrumental these last few games. Guy has made several plays in special teams to get the team going or in a position to steer the ship in the right direction for a win. 
 

Bosa picking up these minor injuries is a concern. I hope he continues producing like he has. We’ll need him big time which is an obvious. Especially if we end up playing all or most of any post season games on the road. 
 

That replay you reference was absolute BS. I understand some people mentioning it in the McD over his head thread but that’s on the officiating and review teams. The fact they interjected immediately on Cooks long catch inside the RZ was an absolute slap in the face. Don’t know how the standard wasn’t the same application is truly bizarre. 
 

Garrett will at least tie the sack record this week. Just hope he doesn’t end up wrecking the game like he did the Ravens, Raiders or Pats. Josh has had some scary moments where he’s been lucky to avoid minor or major injuries. 

[Mango]

Re: Knox

 

I like our TE room. I think as a unit they're awesome but nobody is a super star. That said this offense is begging to be throwing to RB's and TE's at a way higher rate than they are.

 

I don't get it.

[Pete]

Regarding Milano- Matt was making plays like its 2022.  He played with attitude and feisty, talking *****, getting in Pats grills.  Matt got punched!  How was Stevenson not ejected?  He will be hearing from the league.  Jerry Ostroski said teams need 2-3 guys that play edgy, and bring huge energy.  Milano was all that last night.  Welcome back Matt Milano you badass!

[Virgil]

21 minutes ago, th3fly said:

I noticed that the line play changed in our favor after Phillips went out and our rookie DT was able to generate some push back.  Second half stats spell this out.  

Didn’t Phillips go out in the 4th?  I was also surprised Walker was seeing less snaps prior 

[SoonerBillsFan]

43 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I think I'm finally starting to come to terms with the concept that the Bills of 2023 and before are gone, but that doesn't mean the current Bills are any less deadly.  Yes, there are huge inconsistencies with this team and the heart attack moments seem to be more predominant, but the results have us a game back of the division and 2 back of the conference.  So instead of complaining about how our wide receivers are more of an afterthought and how our high paid defensive players aren't making the impact we'd hoped, I'm going to embrace the situation for what it is and only compare it to what McD seems to want for our identity.  

 

1 - Milano - Of all the pleasant surprises from this game, none were more impactful to me that seeing Milano show flashes of his former dominant self.  Not only did he get two sacks on the day, he showed great instincts against the run and was quick to his gaps.  Both of his sacks were high effort sacks in that he had to work his way through guys and stay with the play.  He even managed to put a little extra on his hit to Diggs.  If this trend continues, this could be a huge boost to our defense.  As a huge Milano fan, it's great to be able to call him out again in these thoughts.  Side note, did anyone figure out what the personal foul against Milano was for?  I saw him get punched, but did not see Milano do anything to merit a flag.

 

2 - Davis - In each of the last three weeks, there was a moment that really seemed to spark our comebacks and wake us up from our dormant rests.  In this game, and even called out by Josh himself, Davis' second half kick off return into Patriots territory appeared to be that spark.  Davis had multiple great KO returns and is now apparently up in the ranks of overall top KO returners.  It's great to see him finding a way to make an impact and hopefully can use this to generate more touches elsewhere.

 

3 - Josh - Unlike the previous weeks, Josh seemed like he was on his game early.  Yes, we punted early in the game (which I still question not going for it), but Josh was making the throws he needed to.  Unfortunately, the pass rush and poor hands of those around him didn't help him get the job done.  However, once we got rollling, Josh was masterful with the ball in his hands.  You could heard the zip on the ball for the last Knox TD.  The velocity that Josh can generate while on the run is absolutely insane and allowed him to take advantage of the brief separation Knox was able to get.  Josh seemed to only be slowed down by play calling and the faltering of those around him.  My only criticism is that Josh is a little slow getting his passes to the flats.  I understand that he's trying to make something happen downfield, but his delay in those shorter throws is allowing the defenders to close in quicker and not give the receiver time to catch, adjust, and make a move in space.  

 

4 - Knox - While I'm doing my best to lay off of Brady, it's hard to not believe that Knox was being asked to block more than run routes prior to Kincaid's injuries.  Less we forget, Knox was a favorite target of Allen, especially in the end zone.  Knox's performance made the drafting of Kincaid perplexing, but the hope at the time was we would see an offense similar to the Gronk/Gonzalez one in New England (you know, minus the murder).  Sadly, Knox appeared to take a back seat to Kincaid be relegated to blocking and chipping duty. Seeing Knox get more involved in the passing game, being able to find space against linebackers, all while still contributing to the run game has been a huge boost to this offense.  I really hope we continue to see Knox and Kincaid be featured as it's a big mismatch for opposing defenses as well as sets up our play-action passing game.

 

5 - Bosa - I think one of my biggest rollercoaster moments of the game was on the final 4th and 5.  To say that I was red in the face when I saw Bosa drop back to spy Maye on that play would be an understatement.  On a play where we know it's a pass, and to have our best pass rusher drop off the line....  But needless to say, Bosa pounced as soon as Maye left the pocket and batted down the pass.  This is the type of impact we need (I'm looking at you Groot).  Someone who show's up in big moments.  I hope the game didn't aggravate his hamstring and I'm perfectly fine reducing his snap count and saving him for the playoffs.  We need him.

 

6 - Replay - Can someone explain to me why the Bills didn't have footage of the first 3rd and long pass for the Patriots that should have been ruled incomplete?  According to McD's presser, he said he only saw one replay on the scoreboard and that was it.  That was such a huge play that would have given the Bills the ball back, but instead resulted in 6 for the Pats.  Then, the next two times when replay assist does take affect, goes against the Bills.  On that alone, all the griping by Pats fans about the officials can kick rocks.  Those complaining about the non-hold call against Dawkins are just plain wrong.  Even Watt called out that the defender leaned into Dawkins and pretty much ran himself into the ground.  I thought Dawkins did a great job to get his other arm up for the ref.  As for the bizarre PI that resulted in a Shakir catch?  I have no idea what happened there.  Either way, those saying Josh begged for a flag or that it came in late are just plain wrong.  The ref had his hand in his pocked for the flag before the defender tried to turn his head back.  From that point on, it was going to be a Bills first down regardless of anything else.  Maybe I'm a homer and because the calls went out way, I didn't pay attention as much?  Who knows?  It all seemed to balance itself out.  But Vrabel complaining about the lack of offensive holding the day after makes me like him even less.  

 

7 - 21-0 - I'll be honest, I was ready to turn the game off at this point.  I knew it wasn't going to be a blow-out and Josh would figure something out, but the poor tackling was killing me.  Between the Pats receivers making great contested catches and our defenders slipping off tackles like the Pats players were greased up, the frustration was real.  However, I had to remind myself that the Pats were coming off a bye week and McDaniels is very good at scripted and trick plays.  It did seem like once McDaniel's got through his bag of tricks and had to call responsive plays, leading Maye to have to make multiple reads, our defense finally settled in.  Up until that point, Maye only had two incomplete passes.  I'm not going to complain about the how, because the result matters, but I am very worried still that we will try to give playoff teams this type of cushion and we won't be able to come back.

 

8 - "No Block, No Rock" - At one point in the game, it was mentioned that Shakir made a comment to the media during the week that it's widely accepted in the receivers room that if you aren't willing to block, then you won't be part of the passing game.  That really stood out to me, and I have to wonder how that's really playing out amongst the receivers.  The everybody eats mentality may have worked when everyone was getting at least 3-5 catches a game.  But with most of the passes going to backs and TE's, it seems to be more block and no rock.  Is that something that's going to entire receivers to want to come here.  Is this slowing the effort/desire of players like Coleman and Palmer?  Palmer had some terrible blocks in this game and we all know about Coleman's effort levels.  I have no idea either way, but it's still something that really stood out to me.

 

9 - RB's - I was really happy to see Brady not get away from running the ball with Cook even when we were down early.  It was slow goings at first, but Cook finally found some space and made quite the impact in this game with three total touchdowns.  While he didn't break a big one, Cook was able to get nice chunks of 5-8 yards a few times, as well as contributed more in the passing game beyond just flat routes.  I'm still not quite sure why Johnson is getting more reps in the run than Davis, but it seemed to work out.  The game sealing run by Johnson was a nice change of pace play.

 

10 - Maye - I feel comfortable saying that Maye vs Allen will be much watch TV for the next decade.  Maye's pocket awareness, deep ball accuracy, and overall touch is impressive for a second year player.  He may not have the arm or mobility that Josh has, but that doesn't mean both are not still a cut above the rest of the league.  Maye proved he can still get confused by the defense, but overall played a solid game.  The Pats will need to pay him after next year, but with that rookie RB, 100 mil to spend, and a decent coaching staff, they should be able to get him a #1 receiver, build a defense, and be contenders for a while to come.

 

 

On to Cleveland where I hope Brady doesn't think Garrett can be single man blocked.

 

Go Bills!!!!

The no block no rock bs needs to end.  I get wanting guys to block but WR's are there to catch the ball.  

 

Maybe now we know why this org. Wont get a true #1.  They know they want to catch and run first. 

[seannc]

37 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Didn’t Phillips go out in the 4th?  I was also surprised Walker was seeing less snaps prior 

I think he went out late in the first half

[transient]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

 

1 - Milano - Of all the pleasant surprises from this game, none were more impactful to me that seeing Milano show flashes of his former dominant self.  Not only did he get two sacks on the day, he showed great instincts against the run and was quick to his gaps.  Both of his sacks were high effort sacks in that he had to work his way through guys and stay with the play.  He even managed to put a little extra on his hit to Diggs.  If this trend continues, this could be a huge boost to our defense.  As a huge Milano fan, it's great to be able to call him out again in these thoughts.  Side note, did anyone figure out what the personal foul against Milano was for?  I saw him get punched, but did not see Milano do anything to merit a flag.

 

4 - Knox - While I'm doing my best to lay off of Brady, it's hard to not believe that Knox was being asked to block more than run routes prior to Kincaid's injuries.  Less we forget, Knox was a favorite target of Allen, especially in the end zone.  Knox's performance made the drafting of Kincaid perplexing, but the hope at the time was we would see an offense similar to the Gronk/Gonzalez one in New England (you know, minus the murder).  Sadly, Knox appeared to take a back seat to Kincaid be relegated to blocking and chipping duty. Seeing Knox get more involved in the passing game, being able to find space against linebackers, all while still contributing to the run game has been a huge boost to this offense.  I really hope we continue to see Knox and Kincaid be featured as it's a big mismatch for opposing defenses as well as sets up our play-action passing game.

I have wondered how much Bernard's absence has played into Milano's resurgence. It's a different style of play when Thompson, Milano and Williams are in there compared to when Bernard is in there. Much more physical, much faster.

 

Are you suggesting Tony Gonzalez is a murderer?!?! The Thursday night football Prime crew better keep their eyes open. 

[Pete]

Marinos ALL 22 Just dropped

[transient]

Am I the only one who got FOMO when I saw (Part Two) in the thread title and had to search for (Part One) before it finally dawned on me that this is the second meeting of the season... uuhhhh, DUH. 

[Marcus Aurelius]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

Regarding Milano- Matt was making plays like its 2022.  He played with attitude and feisty, talking *****, getting in Pats grills.  Matt got punched!  How was Stevenson not ejected?  He will be hearing from the league.  Jerry Ostroski said teams need 2-3 guys that play edgy, and bring huge energy.  Milano was all that last night.  Welcome back Matt Milano you badass!

The stoic guy on team ...

"You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength"

- Marcus Aurelius 

[UConn James]

1) Milano got punched and did nothing before or after... unless it was a verbal unsportsmanlike.

 

4) Since the WRs continue to be 🐴, yes, the TE trio really ought to be getting more passes as they have the last couple of weeks. That needed to happen way earlier than it has. I don't remember ever seeing Kincaid out there but the reps sheet says about 30% iirc. I wanna like the kid, but I remain underwhelmed by his performance and inavailability. 
 

Elsewhere, the Run D was even more abysmal than usual and the fact that it's gone on since McD has been here is, in my mind, the most damning thing wrt how I see him as a coach and what he tells Beane he needs. Still obsessed with lightweight 210-215# LBs even as the league has been swinging the pendulum back to bruising ground game with larger RBs. I thought we were sunk with the 65- yard TD given up. The Pats* RB saw a wall in front of him and then shifted left to WIDE open field. Leaving just Hairston as the last man on that side (and who overpursued into the backfield, rookie he is) was infuriating. Bishop being the leading run tackler is an indictment that McD's philosophy and scheme are completely 🤬ed and he absolutely refuses to adjust to bigger LBs and reducing his use of the Big Nickel concept. 

Edited 6 hours ago by UConn James

[Coach Tuesday]

Anyone else pretty positive that Milano will be on the Pats next year?  (Ducks)

[BobbyC81]

Regarding #6:

 

Please don’t tell me, McD, that you’re resorting to watching the video screen for replays, an infamous Rex-ism.  You need to have someone on your extensive staff to be assigned to watch the replays on a tablet or whatever to quickly determine a possible challenge.

 

If this is true, McD just lost some faith from me.

[HappyDays]

7 hours ago, Virgil said:

8 - "No Block, No Rock" - At one point in the game, it was mentioned that Shakir made a comment to the media during the week that it's widely accepted in the receivers room that if you aren't willing to block, then you won't be part of the passing game.  That really stood out to me, and I have to wonder how that's really playing out amongst the receivers.  The everybody eats mentality may have worked when everyone was getting at least 3-5 catches a game.  But with most of the passes going to backs and TE's, it seems to be more block and no rock.

 

7 hours ago, Virgil said:

9 - RB's - I was really happy to see Brady not get away from running the ball with Cook even when we were down early.  It was slow goings at first, but Cook finally found some space and made quite the impact in this game with three total touchdowns.

 

These two bullet points are what the offense has to be the rest of the year. It is proven at this point that the less the WRs are involved as pass catchers and the more we pound the run with Cook, the more effective our offense is. All season long I have seen fans wondering why Brady doesn't dial up deep shots. And then without exception every time he does Allen either holds the ball and has to check it down or one of his crappy WRs fails to complete the catch. It's almost satire that our WRs are better run blockers than pass catchers but that is the truth and we need to lean into it.

 

On the flip side, I just listened to Joe Marino's all-22 review and he pointed out that Josh McDaniels only called 3 runs in the entire 2nd half yesterday. One of them of course was the long TD run which makes the play calling even more perplexing. The Pats were leading by 10 the first time they got the ball and were always winning or down by 4 at most, and they just totally abandoned the part of their offense we had been unable to stop. That would have driven me mad if Brady had made a fatal error like that. Brady, for all that I've criticized him, understands that you have to keep running even if it isn't working early. Even if it starts to feel predictable. Eventually you wear the opponent down and with this offense as constructed once we get some momentum we are very very tough to stop.

[BobbyC81]

2 hours ago, UConn James said:

1) Milano got punched and did nothing before or after... unless it was a verbal unsportsmanlike.

 

4) Since the WRs continue to be 🐴, yes, the TE trio really ought to be getting more passes as they have the last couple of weeks. That needed to happen way earlier than it has. I don't remember ever seeing Kincaid out there but the reps sheet says about 30% iirc. I wanna like the kid, but I remain underwhelmed by his performance and inavailability. 
 

Elsewhere, the Run D was even more abysmal than usual and the fact that it's gone on since McD has been here is, in my mind, the most damning thing wrt how I see him as a coach and what he tells Beane he needs. Still obsessed with lightweight 210-215# LBs even as the league has been swinging the pendulum back to bruising ground game with larger RBs. I thought we were sunk with the 65- yard TD given up. The Pats* RB saw a wall in front of him and then shifted left to WIDE open field. Leaving just Hairston as the last man on that side (and who overpursued into the backfield, rookie he is) was infuriating. Bishop being the leading run tackler is an indictment that McD's philosophy and scheme are completely 🤬ed and he absolutely refuses to adjust to bigger LBs and reducing his use of the Big Nickel concept. 

I replayed that Henderson run a couple times.  I think it was Walker who came into the scrum late and just starting pushing the pile.  If he just stayed where he was, he could’ve at least set the edge or forced Henderson to have to go around him and give the DBs a better shot at him.  Of course, why wasn’t there a LB or safety ready on the back end in case the RB reversed field.  What do they think they’re gaining by joining the scrum?
 

I’m sure McD and his staff will address this in film review.

 

Yes, it should be embarrassing for a head coach coming from the defensive side to have a defense like this.  If you keep changing D-Line players every year and it doesn’t get any better, then it must be the LBs and/or scheme.

 

They should grab Red Murdoch from UB.   That guy can hit, fight off blocks and tackle.

[Dan Darragh]

11 hours ago, Virgil said:

I think I'm finally starting to come to terms with the concept that the Bills of 2023 and before are gone, but that doesn't mean the current Bills are any less deadly.  

I think of the '21 team as the one that had the best chance to take it all.  Interestingly, I heard a rumor that the guy who caught 4 TDs in the 13 seconds game that season is on the current roster, but was a healthy scratch on Sunday.  (In favor of Palmer?  Cooks?)

 

Gabe seems to have gotten over the dropsies and is still the guy who is a magician on the tightrope sideline plays.  Between him, Palmer and Cooks, two of them should be active on gameday and Gabe should be one of them.