Over Coming Injuries Deserve a At A Boy IMHO for This Staff This Season !!

[T master]

I for one am not a Debby downer when it comes to our current coaching staff or front office like many here are ! As soon as things don't go their way they want it too they all start complaining and want to clear the deck as far as the HC & GM are concerned but given the latest rash of injuries and the Bills 2 starting tackles having to sit out the last game I wanted to know just how many injuries the Bills had this year to this point and time so I checked it out .

 

This year through week 12 the Bills have had as many as 38 players on injured and 21 on IR and many of those are starters . There have been many lost for the season that are either vets or players drafted that could have very easily made a huge difference for this team if healthy, yet this is something that the haters do not take into consideration (it seems) when they go into their rants of who to fire !!

 

Hoecht DE, Jackson Edge, Carter DL, Rapp S, Hamlin S, Owens S, Bass K, out for the season - Oliver DT, Hardman WR, Samuel WR, can return but not for the regular season more than likely .

 

Then there are those that have missed games due to injuries like Bosa, Kincaid (china doll), Bernard, Dawkins, Brown, all out for some games all being starters too then those that have been playing through injuries like McGovern having a bad hand . Luckily Josh didn't wind up getting hurt last game or that would have been the end of the season for us all together .

 

But I am saying all of this to say sure each team has to have quality depth because every team have and will have injuries but at what point do the injuries change the course of effectiveness of the team to win and I would say that despite the amount of injuries to key players and to those that were hoped to be developed as depth the Bills & it's coaching staff have done a pretty freakin good job to keep this team in the play off picture because IMHO the wheels could have fallen off many teams by now .

 

I realize being a life long Bills fan that there are those here that prove no matter how good it is you can't keep them happy no matter what and will always complain and more than likely do in most situations in not only their fandom but more than likely in their personal lives due to their writings here but I for one will give props where either feel they are due .

 

And given the fact that the roster is 53 and that there have been as many as 38 on IR at certain points of the year which is well over half of the team I'm giving this coaching staff a At A Boy for having the team in the hunt because they very easily could have been nothing but a after thought as far as the play offs go already .

 

One other thought I have had is seeing as Kincaid is and has been IMHO a china doll in some respects and has missed as many as 1/3 of his games in his short career as a Bill would you trade him ? I'm thinking that if in 3 seasons he has missed that many games already I might think to trade him for a better, tougher player moving forward or a higher draft pick to replace him .

 

I know this will meet opposition but if he does continue to have these injuries that will give the haters just 1 more thing to complain about Beane not being a good drafting GM and how he should be fired because of something like this that he has NO control over what so ever . Just a thought .

 

GO BILLS !!  

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

I think last week vs the Steelers solidified my opinion that Kromer is the best coach on this team. We were down both tackles and ran for 250 against a great defensive front. The run game has been the most consistent element of this team all season.

[Rubes]

I like the positivity. I feel like this season will eventually be the "what could have been" season given how there is a lack of one dominant team, and how both sides of the ball could have played if so many key guys hadn't been so injured.

 

I think a lot of folks get down on players when they're injured either repeatedly or for long periods, but it's just a fact of life in football. I try not to get on a player's case for their injuries, it just sucks.

 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by Rubes

[hondo in seattle]

37 minutes ago, T master said:

I for one am not a Debby downer when it comes to our current coaching staff or front office like many here are ! As soon as things don't go their way they want it too they all start complaining and want to clear the deck as far as the HC & GM are concerned but given the latest rash of injuries and the Bills 2 starting tackles having to sit out the last game I wanted to know just how many injuries the Bills had this year to this point and time so I checked it out .

 

This year through week 12 the Bills have had as many as 38 players on injured and 21 on IR and many of those are starters . There have been many lost for the season that are either vets or players drafted that could have very easily made a huge difference for this team if healthy, yet this is something that the haters do not take into consideration (it seems) when they go into their rants of who to fire !!

 

Hoecht DE, Jackson Edge, Carter DL, Rapp S, Hamlin S, Owens S, Bass K, out for the season - Oliver DT, Hardman WR, Samuel WR, can return but not for the regular season more than likely .

 

Then there are those that have missed games due to injuries like Bosa, Kincaid (china doll), Bernard, Dawkins, Brown, all out for some games all being starters too then those that have been playing through injuries like McGovern having a bad hand . Luckily Josh didn't wind up getting hurt last game or that would have been the end of the season for us all together .

 

But I am saying all of this to say sure each team has to have quality depth because every team have and will have injuries but at what point do the injuries change the course of effectiveness of the team to win and I would say that despite the amount of injuries to key players and to those that were hoped to be developed as depth the Bills & it's coaching staff have done a pretty freakin good job to keep this team in the play off picture because IMHO the wheels could have fallen off many teams by now .

 

I realize being a life long Bills fan that there are those here that prove no matter how good it is you can't keep them happy no matter what and will always complain and more than likely do in most situations in not only their fandom but more than likely in their personal lives due to their writings here but I for one will give props where either feel they are due .

 

And given the fact that the roster is 53 and that there have been as many as 38 on IR at certain points of the year which is well over half of the team I'm giving this coaching staff a At A Boy for having the team in the hunt because they very easily could have been nothing but a after thought as far as the play offs go already .

 

One other thought I have had is seeing as Kincaid is and has been IMHO a china doll in some respects and has missed as many as 1/3 of his games in his short career as a Bill would you trade him ? I'm thinking that if in 3 seasons he has missed that many games already I might think to trade him for a better, tougher player moving forward or a higher draft pick to replace him .

 

I know this will meet opposition but if he does continue to have these injuries that will give the haters just 1 more thing to complain about Beane not being a good drafting GM and how he should be fired because of something like this that he has NO control over what so ever . Just a thought .

 

GO BILLS !!  

 

I agree with the basic premise.  The injuries have been hard to overcome.  Some of the injured players, to be honest, are barely missed.  But guys like Oliver and Bosa are different because their backups don't come close to them.  

 

I also think that the roster wasn't all that great to begin with.  So losing key guys becomes especially problematic.  

 

But I believe as well that there have been games when the offensive game plan was just plain bad.  Brady doesn't seem to know how to scheme a downfield passing game (and, yes, I do cut him some slack given the WRs he has to work with). And some of his play designs seem unimaginative and his play calls predictable.  

 

On the defense side, I have some complaints about the coaching, too.  Some games we stayed mostly in 4-2 despite being gashed on the ground.  It seemed like moving to 4-3 with Shaq on the field would have been a better decision.  And other games we just didn't tackle well or maintain gap integrity - which means our players haven't been coached up well enough to execute at a high enough level.  

 

I'm not ready to tar and feather Beane or our coaches just yet.  But I'm not giving them any medals either.  Still, I like @T master's positivity - it's a refreshing and much-needed counterbalance to some of the over-the-top criticisms on the board.  

[Billsfed1]

 

[transient]

51 minutes ago, T master said:

Hoecht DE, Jackson Edge, Carter DL, Rapp S, Hamlin S, Owens S, Bass K, out for the season

Ironically, outside of Hoecht, this is a list of players whose absence has had no impact on the team, Jackson, Carter, Owens, or whose absence has actually positively impacted the team, Rapp, Hamlin, Bass. You could actually argue that part of the reason for the turnaround in the secondary is because Rapp’s injury forced McD’s hand in finally getting him off the field, and what do you know, suddenly Bishop looks like the player they thought they were drafting instead of a bust and Poyer, despite his declining athleticism, is actually where he’s supposed to be on the field. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

5 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I agree with the basic premise.  The injuries have been hard to overcome.  Some of the injured players, to be honest, are barely missed.  But guys like Oliver and Bosa are different because their backups don't come close to them.  

 

I also think that the roster wasn't all that great to begin with.  So losing key guys becomes especially problematic.  

 

But I believe as well that there have been games when the offensive game plan was just plain bad.  Brady doesn't seem to know how to scheme a downfield passing game (and, yes, I do cut him some slack given the WRs he has to work with). And some of his play designs seem unimaginative and his play calls predictable.  

 

On the defense side, I have some complaints about the coaching, too.  Some games we stayed mostly in 4-2 despite being gashed on the ground.  It seemed like moving to 4-3 with Shaq on the field would have been a better decision.  And other games we just didn't tackle well or maintain gap integrity - which means our players haven't been coached up well enough to execute at a high enough level.  

 

I'm not ready to tar and feather Beane or our coaches just yet.  But I'm not giving them any medals either.  Still, I like @T master's positivity - it's a refreshing and much-needed counterbalance to some of the over-the-top criticisms on the board.  

I agree with most of your points, especially when it comes to Brady. Also, when you mention the defensive alignment.

 

Where I differ is in the tackling and gap integrity being a coaching issue. Week to week, NFL coaches do not go over fundamentals such as tackling. Gap integrity is talked about, sure. But a lot of that falls on the players. It's like when people want to say the team comes out flat and that's a coaching issue. These are grown men that have played at a very high level their whole life. They don't need or at least shouldn't need some coach to teach them how to tackle, or stay in their gaps or be amped up at game time. 

[nuklz2594]

kincaid with big knee brace is concerning. imo...kromer should be OC. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 minute ago, nuklz2594 said:

kincaid with big knee brace is concerning. imo...kromer should be OC. 

Just wondering...why? IMO he's fine doing what he is. He's been an OC before and it didn't go well. 

 

To me it would be exactly like the Babich promotion but on the other side of the ball. Babich is a phenomenal coach by all accounts. He's had a lot of success with whatever position group he's been assigned to. He just doesn't have the skill to call a game as a coordinator. Same with Kromer. Some guys aren't meant for the big chair. 

[nuklz2594]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Just wondering...why? IMO he's fine doing what he is. He's been an OC before and it didn't go well. 

 

To me it would be exactly like the Babich promotion but on the other side of the ball. Babich is a phenomenal coach by all accounts. He's had a lot of success with whatever position group he's been assigned to. He just doesn't have the skill to call a game as a coordinator. Same with Kromer. Some guys aren't meant for the big chair. 

imo...seems kromer brings a tough mindset to the offense. Brady at times seems overwhelmed. 

[Rubes]

19 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I agree with the basic premise.  The injuries have been hard to overcome.  Some of the injured players, to be honest, are barely missed.  But guys like Oliver and Bosa are different because their backups don't come close to them.  

 

I also think that the roster wasn't all that great to begin with.  So losing key guys becomes especially problematic.  

 

But I believe as well that there have been games when the offensive game plan was just plain bad.  Brady doesn't seem to know how to scheme a downfield passing game (and, yes, I do cut him some slack given the WRs he has to work with). And some of his play designs seem unimaginative and his play calls predictable.  

 

On the defense side, I have some complaints about the coaching, too.  Some games we stayed mostly in 4-2 despite being gashed on the ground.  It seemed like moving to 4-3 with Shaq on the field would have been a better decision.  And other games we just didn't tackle well or maintain gap integrity - which means our players haven't been coached up well enough to execute at a high enough level.  

 

I'm not ready to tar and feather Beane or our coaches just yet.  But I'm not giving them any medals either.  Still, I like @T master's positivity - it's a refreshing and much-needed counterbalance to some of the over-the-top criticisms on the board.  

 

I agree with you for the most part, though one thing I've been seeing is at least some learning as they go. Both for Brady and for Babich and the defense, especially the latter as they learn about which guys (eg, Shaq, Walker) are playing above expectations and others (eg, Benford, Hairston) are gradually improving over the course of the season. I'm more skeptical of Brady, but I was rough on him before the Steelers game and I thought he showed something to me in that one. We'll see if it sticks, or progresses.

 

[MarlinTheMagician]

20 minutes ago, transient said:

Ironically, outside of Hoecht, this is a list of players whose absence has had no impact on the team, Jackson, Carter, Owens, or whose absence has actually positively impacted the team, Rapp, Hamlin, Bass. You could actually argue that part of the reason for the turnaround in the secondary is because Rapp’s injury forced McD’s hand in finally getting him off the field, and what do you know, suddenly Bishop looks like the player they thought they were drafting instead of a bust and Poyer, despite his declining athleticism, is actually where he’s supposed to be on the field. 

Injuries negatively impacting team:  Oliver, Brown, Dawkins, Hairston, Milano, Bernard, Bosa, Hoecht, Palmer, Dorian Strong, Shaq Thompson, Shakir

 

Injuries that may have negatively impacted team (as we don't know how the players would have developed): Carter, Sanders, Jackson, Samuel, Hardman, Grable, 

 

I am sure this is not complete, but the point is - while it is true we had some injuries that may not have hurt us, it is abundantly clear that we had a ton of injuries that either did hurt us or may well have hurt us.  The staff and players have done a good job navigating them.  Ironically, I am the most optimistic I have been for this team since the Falcons/Dolphins losses.  Seems the defense is gelling a bit and any offense with Josh Allen and James Cook gives the team more than a fair shot.  In an AFC where two of the three pre-season favorites (Ravens, Chiefs) have materially worse records than the Bills, I say - why not us?  Keep hope alive!!

[transient]

6 minutes ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

Injuries negatively impacting team:  Oliver, Brown, Dawkins, Hairston, Milano, Bernard, Bosa, Hoecht, Palmer, Dorian Strong, Shaq Thompson, Shakir

 

Injuries that may have negatively impacted team (as we don't know how the players would have developed): Carter, Sanders, Jackson, Samuel, Hardman, Grable, 

 

I am sure this is not complete, but the point is - while it is true we had some injuries that may not have hurt us, it is abundantly clear that we had a ton of injuries that either did hurt us or may well have hurt us.  The staff and players have done a good job navigating them.  Ironically, I am the most optimistic I have been for this team since the Falcons/Dolphins losses.  Seems the defense is gelling a bit and any offense with Josh Allen and James Cook gives the team more than a fair shot.  In an AFC where two of the three pre-season favorites (Ravens, Chiefs) have materially worse records than the Bills, I say - why not us?  Keep hope alive!!

I’m not arguing that injuries haven’t hurt us; we’ve clearly had a ton of them at key places. My point was that, aside from Hoecht, players that we’ve lost for the year haven’t materially made this team worse, and in several key areas that actually cost us games earlier in the season have clearly been addition by subtraction. You can applaud the staff for overcoming injuries of late, and it’s warranted, but some of the personnel decisions early in the season hurt this team significantly.

[hondo in seattle]

4 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I agree with most of your points, especially when it comes to Brady. Also, when you mention the defensive alignment.

 

Where I differ is in the tackling and gap integrity being a coaching issue. Week to week, NFL coaches do not go over fundamentals such as tackling. Gap integrity is talked about, sure. But a lot of that falls on the players. It's like when people want to say the team comes out flat and that's a coaching issue. These are grown men that have played at a very high level their whole life. They don't need or at least shouldn't need some coach to teach them how to tackle, or stay in their gaps or be amped up at game time. 

 

I see your point, but I do think coaches play a role in tackling and gap integrity.  

 

Somebody on the Bills mentioned that the Bills D recently changed the standard from 'practicing until they got it right'  to 'practicing until they couldn't get it wrong.'  This is what made Vince Lombardi great.  He wasn't brilliant at Xs and Os but he coached his guys up until they executed his limited playbook flawlessly.  And that's been a strength of the McD defense in the past: superior communication and execution.  It hasn't been a strength this year, though it seems to be improving.  

 

I acknowledge, though, that there are players who, no matter how much or well you coach them, will screw up come gametime.  

[hondo in seattle]

4 hours ago, Rubes said:

 

I agree with you for the most part, though one thing I've been seeing is at least some learning as they go. Both for Brady and for Babich and the defense, especially the latter as they learn about which guys (eg, Shaq, Walker) are playing above expectations and others (eg, Benford, Hairston) are gradually improving over the course of the season. I'm more skeptical of Brady, but I was rough on him before the Steelers game and I thought he showed something to me in that one. We'll see if it sticks, or progresses.

 

 

It seems a little weird for a head coach with SB aspirations to choose two first time coordinators to run his offense and defense.  And, yeah, hopefully they learning as they go and continuing improving. 

 

But look at KC in comparison:

 

HC: Reid.  A creative offensive guru, his track record speaks for itself.  

 

DC: Spags.  Some say Spags, a former head coach, is the best DC in the league.  Romo says he needs to be in the coordinator HOF (if there was one).

 

OC: Nagy.  Nagy, the NFL Coach of the Year in 2018, is known for creativity and QB development skills.   

 

Reid/Spags/Nagy might be the most talented, intelligent coaching triumvirate in the league.  

 

I like McD as a head coach but I don't think McDermott/Babich/Brady is in the same tier.  Hopefully, they'll get there.  

[MDH]

4 hours ago, transient said:

Ironically, outside of Hoecht, this is a list of players whose absence has had no impact on the team, Jackson, Carter, Owens, or whose absence has actually positively impacted the team, Rapp, Hamlin, Bass. You could actually argue that part of the reason for the turnaround in the secondary is because Rapp’s injury forced McD’s hand in finally getting him off the field, and what do you know, suddenly Bishop looks like the player they thought they were drafting instead of a bust and Poyer, despite his declining athleticism, is actually where he’s supposed to be on the field. 

 

The players that are missed that are impactful are Oliver, Hoecht, Kinkaid and Palmer. 3 of the 4 losses Kinkaid was missing. I don't think it's a coincidence the O looked lost in those games. This offense needs to be able to line up in 12, 13 and 22 to dictate to defenses because the WR room is weak. To be able to pass out of those formations reliably they need Kincaid and Knox together. When they can't do that, it tends to spell trouble. 

 

As for Palmer, I know he hasn't had a sizable impact yet, but he has a skillset that is missing in this O. He's the best route runner of the WRs and is one of the only guys (maybe THE only guy) that can regularly get separation vs. man to man. I'd had loved to see him and Josh start to click after enough time together. They just don't have the reps and I don't think they'll be able to get them by season's end. It takes time and he's missed too much of it. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I felt at one time that this was a Bills thing, but I think it is a league thing. The injuries across the entire league are alarming, and it seems like multiple causes. 
 

it will never happen, but modifying the TNF set up so teams have a bye the week before seems like it would help cutting down on some injuries. 
 

But I do think a lot of these guys are overtraining in the gym and undertraining re flexibility and mobility. I would love to hear a strength and conditioning coach outline the training regimens for these players. 

[loyal2dagame]

I think it's supposed to be "attaboy". And yes, the coaching staff deserves it. Not so much the GM. 

[QLBillsFan]

4 hours ago, nuklz2594 said:

kincaid with big knee brace is concerning. imo...kromer should be OC. 

The OL coach works with the OC I’d rather have Kromer as OL coach. For whatever reason he hasn’t been offered an OC position in over 10 years. I think he’s in the right spot and is one of the best. 

[folz]

5 hours ago, T master said:

I for one am not a Debby downer when it comes to our current coaching staff or front office like many here are ! As soon as things don't go their way they want it too they all start complaining and want to clear the deck as far as the HC & GM are concerned but given the latest rash of injuries and the Bills 2 starting tackles having to sit out the last game I wanted to know just how many injuries the Bills had this year to this point and time so I checked it out .

 

This year through week 12 the Bills have had as many as 38 players on injured and 21 on IR and many of those are starters . There have been many lost for the season that are either vets or players drafted that could have very easily made a huge difference for this team if healthy, yet this is something that the haters do not take into consideration (it seems) when they go into their rants of who to fire !!

 

Hoecht DE, Jackson Edge, Carter DL, Rapp S, Hamlin S, Owens S, Bass K, out for the season - Oliver DT, Hardman WR, Samuel WR, can return but not for the regular season more than likely .

 

Then there are those that have missed games due to injuries like Bosa, Kincaid (china doll), Bernard, Dawkins, Brown, all out for some games all being starters too then those that have been playing through injuries like McGovern having a bad hand . Luckily Josh didn't wind up getting hurt last game or that would have been the end of the season for us all together .

 

But I am saying all of this to say sure each team has to have quality depth because every team have and will have injuries but at what point do the injuries change the course of effectiveness of the team to win and I would say that despite the amount of injuries to key players and to those that were hoped to be developed as depth the Bills & it's coaching staff have done a pretty freakin good job to keep this team in the play off picture because IMHO the wheels could have fallen off many teams by now .

 

I realize being a life long Bills fan that there are those here that prove no matter how good it is you can't keep them happy no matter what and will always complain and more than likely do in most situations in not only their fandom but more than likely in their personal lives due to their writings here but I for one will give props where either feel they are due .

 

And given the fact that the roster is 53 and that there have been as many as 38 on IR at certain points of the year which is well over half of the team I'm giving this coaching staff a At A Boy for having the team in the hunt because they very easily could have been nothing but a after thought as far as the play offs go already .

 

One other thought I have had is seeing as Kincaid is and has been IMHO a china doll in some respects and has missed as many as 1/3 of his games in his short career as a Bill would you trade him ? I'm thinking that if in 3 seasons he has missed that many games already I might think to trade him for a better, tougher player moving forward or a higher draft pick to replace him .

 

I know this will meet opposition but if he does continue to have these injuries that will give the haters just 1 more thing to complain about Beane not being a good drafting GM and how he should be fired because of something like this that he has NO control over what so ever . Just a thought .

 

GO BILLS !!  

 

Just adding a little to your case...

 

A usual response is, "Yeah, well all teams have injuries, it's the NFL." So, I looked to see if the Bills indeed have been hit harder than many other teams.

 

 

The following article (from three days ago, so current) tries to figure out which NFL team has been hit hardest this season by injury. They do not just look at number of players on IR and total games missed, etc. They try to weigh in the actual value of the player to the team by a metric they call "Total Points Value." I can't say I looked too deeply into their metric, but they are at least trying to determine the value of a player (so, a second or third string guy that didn't see the field much would have 0 value in their metric), rather than just total number of team injuries.

 

According to their metric, they have the Bills as the 6th hardest hit team in value player injuries. But the Bills actually have the 3rd most missed games by valued players. The reason for the disparity is they weigh losing say a QB like Burrow as more significant than say a WR or another position. Also interesting to note is how they close the article,

 

"The Patriots and Rams are the most fortunate teams so far in terms of health, which sheds a little light on their strong showings this year. The five teams with the fewest Total Points missed due to injury are currently a combined 41-20, compared to 24-37 from the top 5 teams (most Total Points missed due to injury)."

 

https://www.sportsinfosolutions.com/2025/12/03/which-nfl-teams-have-been-most-and-least-affected-by-injuries-in-2025/