Who do we want, who do we need as our next HC and, or GM?

[Urban Achievers]

5 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

I'll take sullen Doug Marrone returning over 'Chuckie' Gruden.  And when you do give me Marrone, I'll carp about him. 🤨

Obviously!

[Dillenger4]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Joe Schoen has a scouting background and familiarity with Pegula. He drafted the likely offensive and defensive rookies of the year this year. He drafted a superstar last year too. Schoen is a much better talent evaluator than Beane. Lol, Beane would probably admit to that. We don’t need a guy at this point to be the “ceo” of football ops. We need a guy that find more high end talent. Schoen likely stays at the Giants though. 

Yes he did - but he also did that with top 5 picks. My son is a massive Giants fan and trust me, you don't want him anywhere near the Bills Org. He has messed up way more than he has succeeded. yes, his recent 2 drafts were good but so were Beanes.

[TheFunPolice]

Trade 3 first round picks to the Rams for McVay.

 

He would love the snow up here 

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, colin said:

 

i wish i had a reaction to put on this post of a pondering the info.  I think you are more correct than any kind of wrong, but i have been thinking one thing (dangerous, i know) and hearing another lately that i'll chime in w

 

1)  some podcasts i follow and just rando twitterati have been going on about how McD and beane might not be the best of pals.  mcd is obviously super stubborn to the edge of arrogance and does not like being pointed at as the problem (he canned two OCs, had a battle w dabol, at the very least helped our prior DC walk out the door, and snap reversed keeping the ST coordinator).  Beane has an ego that makes mcD look like a monk.  lots of comments like beane saying we had/have a chip roster, that saying we aren't good enough at wr is stupid, mcd saying that he tells beane what he'd like, and then it's "his stage" to do the trades.  i used to think mcd called the shots, but i think more and more beane has become a power unto himself, but not over mcd.  for this reason, i could see beane getting the bum's rush and mcd staying, which would be kinda insane and would mean whoever came in as GM was just a scouting/contract/football operations guy and not a true GM (which beane is not either if he can't fire mcd).

 

2)  i honestly think mcD is a very good DC, and at the very least a solid HC.  i think the above mentioned stubborn/arrogance thing means he just won't bring in a high quality pair of coordinators.  no one who has been in and out of our building (save kromer, but i think he left before mcd, no?) has been anything but basically ass without josh allen (aside from McD as a successful DC).  i'd love him as our DC with an offensive mind at HC.  McD would fight for his side, get his guys going, and we know he can call a d.  if the HC in clevland gets the boot next season, i would jump head over heels for him as OC, especially of brady walks off into the LSU/Penn St sunset.

 

I think our FO is in a holding pattern because of good regular season success and the magic of josh allen in the same way our talent levels were in a holding pattern in the boring drought 7-9 days.  never bad enough to tank for real talent, never good enough to be worth watching, and the same way ralph was cheap (altho he broke that trend to get mario williams) pags is a disaster sports owner w the sabres so he is kinda hamstrung in the confidence to clean out guys department.

1) All these guys have giant egos that clash. They would be in a different business if they didn't.

2) Pegula has already cleaned house with the Sabres multiple times. Each time, they have to start a new rebuild from scratch. And in hockey where teams draft literal children, that takes years. Now that they need to do it again, he's loath to pull the trigger. But he has to do it. 

[Kirby Jackson]

5 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Was Schoen or Beane responsible for Boogie?

Likely both. Beane ultimately had the final decision but Schoen was the guy that basically led scouting. He likely played a leading role in selecting Josh (as he just did with Dart). At least that’s how I understand the relationship. Perhaps @GunnerBill or someone more familiar can correct me if I’m wrong.

 

That’s not all that uncommon. An extreme example is when Russ Brandon was the “GM.” He didn’t make any football decisions. That I know for a fact. He ultimately signed off on everything as the de facto owner but he wasn’t evaluating talent and overruling the guys in place (Modrak and Whaley if memory serves).

Edited 1 hour ago by Kirby Jackson

[mjt328]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

When I was a kid, I remember the Bills being my life. The mood of the community was affected by how the Bills did that weekend. That was for 14 Sundays a year. A few highs, but mostly lows during that time.

 

Now we are much older and we have a lot of other adult things going on in our lives. I still follow the Bills closely, but it’s not like it used to be. I don’t live and die by them.  I’ve been to 2 Bills games this year, both night games. I hate night games for a variety of reasons , and I found myself wondering why I was there. It was strange, and new for me. The Bills are a thing for me now, not THE thing.

 

 I like a good discussion as much as the next guy. For better or worse, the board is a lot like the outside world with very vocal extremes. That leads to a lot of anger and even some venom and name-calling. That’s not discussion anymore with where some of this goes. I blocked a handful of posters after the opener. That helped to get rid of that much pure negativity. It’s a weird place for me to be right now. I don’t mind the Bills as much as some of the fans.*

 

*Nothing personal to anyone, honestly. We’re just different, that’s all. 

 

I've been gradually moving in this direction for years.  

In many ways, football can be an addiction.  You deserve a lot of credit for being able to properly put it into the backseat of your life.

 

A few years ago, my wife pointed out that my mood with the rest of the family was being negatively impacted based on how the Bills played that week.  Since that point, I've learned that if games aren't going well... I can just turn them off and do something else.  I don't need to plan my Sunday around it.  It's honestly been a work in progress, but I have gotten much better.  Last year I skipped watching the Super Bowl, and totally ignored anything related to football until around free agency.  

 

Of course a championship would still mean a lot to me.  But I've pretty much accepted the fact that it probably won't happen.  And if it doesn't, I'm blessed in lots of other ways.  Once Josh Allen's career is over, my plan is to call it quits on the sport altogether.  Whether we ultimately reach the promised land or not.  As someone who loyally supported and watched every game during the 17-year drought, I've got zero interest in going through that again.  

 

 

[The Jokeman]

2 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

Trade 3 first round picks to the Rams for McVay.

 

He would love the snow up here 

Only if they throw in Nacua.

[thenorthremembers]

There have been 7 different head coaches to lead a team to a Super Bowl victory in the last two years.   4 of 7 had been head coaches for a different team prior to coming to the Super Bowl winning team.   6 of the 7 coached the offensive side of the ball before becoming a head coach.  If we are going to move of from McDermott, I dont want a young coordinator who will take time to learn the nuances of gameday and roster management.     That said, a team of Jon Gruden/Reggie Mckenzie or Matt Nagy/Mike Bradway would be the way I'd lean.  

 

If you are going to fire a coach that has been pretty damn good for 9 years it better be for a guy who can have you in the Super Bowl the very next year.  McDermott would have a job in two seconds if they fired him.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

6 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Was Schoen or Beane responsible for Boogie?

Why you bashing Boogie Bashum?! 🤨

*
(Purely rhetorical.  We know why. 😁)

[Kirby Jackson]

11 minutes ago, Dillenger4 said:

Yes he did - but he also did that with top 5 picks. My son is a massive Giants fan and trust me, you don't want him anywhere near the Bills Org. He has messed up way more than he has succeeded. yes, his recent 2 drafts were good but so were Beanes.

The Giants needs and the Bills needs are different. He was trying to build the Giants ground up. Honestly, he’s done the hard part. He got what appears to be a franchise QB, an elite weapon and a great pass rush. Those are the hardest things to do.

 

In the Bills situation we would basically need him to draft well. He’s good at that. The Bills have had success drafting later in the draft but the roster lacks high end talent. If you had a choice of Joe Schoen running a draft or Brandon Beane, I’m taking Schoen 10 times out of 10. If you’re talking about building out a roster top to bottom, it’s Beane.

Edited 1 hour ago by Kirby Jackson

[jaybeezee]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The Giants needs and the Bills needs are different. He was trying to build the Giants ground up. Honestly, he’s done the hard part. He got what appears to be a franchise playmaker, an elite weapon and a great pass rush. Those are the hardest things to do.

 

In the Bills situation we would basically need him to draft well. He’s good at that. The Bills have had success drafting later in the draft but the roster lacks high end talent. If you had a choice of Joe Schoen running a draft or Brandon Beane, I’m taking Schoen 10 times out of 10. If you’re talking about building out a roster top to bottom, it’s Beane.

And that's why the Giants are keeping him, or at least that's what they are saying right now. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Likely both. Beane ultimately had the final decision but Schoen was the guy that basically led scouting. He likely played a leading role in selecting Josh (as he just did with Dart). At least that’s how I understand the relationship. Perhaps @GunnerBill or someone more familiar can correct me if I’m wrong.

 

That’s not all that uncommon. An extreme example is when Russ Brandon was the “GM.” He didn’t make any football decisions. That I know for a fact. He ultimately signed off on everything as the de facto owner but he wasn’t evaluating talent and overruling the guys in place (Modrak and Whaley if memory serves).

 

As I understand it Beane made the decisions and the selections (and still does) but he trusted Joe Schoen more than any human being on the planet when it came to talent evaluation. So it is reasonable to think that he had a big influence in all the draft picks while he was here. I have been told by people in the room that he sort of lacks that now. While he has good relationships with Gaine and Gray and I'm sure he "trusts" them. It isn't like the Beane - Schoen relationship. They were almost brother like.

 

On the Brandon point though Whaley wasn't here when he was GM. Nix recruited Whaley.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

As I understand it Beane made the decisions and the selections (and still does) but he trusted Joe Schoen more than any human being on the planet when it came to talent evaluation. So it is reasonable to think that he had a big influence in all the draft picks while he was here. I have been told by people in the room that he sort of lacks that now. While he has good relationships with Gaine and Gray and I'm sure he "trusts" them. It isn't like the Beane - Schoen relationship. They were almost brother like.

 

On the Brandon point though Whaley wasn't here when he was GM. Nix recruited Whaley.

That’s right that was Modrak (college) and Guy (pro). They were with Levy. I don’t remember if there was crossover. Either way, neither Levy nor Brandon made football decisions. Those other 2 did. 

3 minutes ago, jaybeezee said:

And that's why the Giants are keeping him, or at least that's what they are saying right now. 

Yeah, I’d suspect that they do. They have a nice foundation to work with. 

[jaybeezee]

5 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

There have been 7 different head coaches to lead a team to a Super Bowl victory in the last two years.   4 of 7 had been head coaches for a different team prior to coming to the Super Bowl winning team.   6 of the 7 coached the offensive side of the ball before becoming a head coach.  If we are going to move of from McDermott, I dont want a young coordinator who will take time to learn the nuances of gameday and roster management.     That said, a team of Jon Gruden/Reggie Mckenzie or Matt Nagy/Mike Bradway would be the way I'd lean.  

 

If you are going to fire a coach that has been pretty damn good for 9 years it better be for a guy who can have you in the Super Bowl the very next year.  McDermott would have a job in two seconds if they fired him.

That said, a team of Jon Gruden/Reggie Mckenzie or Matt Nagy/Mike Bradway would be the way I'd lean.  

 

Decision made! Gruden it is.

 

Gas up the Cesna Terry!

 

 Gotta lighten the mood here a tad!

[nosejob]

For me it's Shoen and Gruden and for all of yous still calling him Chucky, take the time to watch his game match up you tube videos. He leaves no stone un turned and

he doesn't talk crap. He's pure x and o. BTW our drafting went to hell when Shoen left. He's done good so far in ny

 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s right that was Modrak (college) and Guy (pro). They were with Levy. I don’t remember if there was crossover. Either way, neither Levy nor Brandon made football decisions. Those other 2 did. 

Yeah, I’d suspect that they do. They have a nice foundation to work with. 

 

Worth saying on Beane I suspect (though don't know) he leans more on McDermott now than he ever did when Schoen was here. I know there are people convinced McDermott ran every draft like a puppet master but that simply isn't true. He wasn't even the 2nd most important person in the room when the Beane - Schoen axis was together. Now he most likely is. Because from what I am told Beane is just like that, relationships are big for him.

[The Jokeman]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The Giants needs and the Bills needs are different. He was trying to build the Giants ground up. Honestly, he’s done the hard part. He got what appears to be a franchise playmaker, an elite weapon and a great pass rush. Those are the hardest things to do.

 

In the Bills situation we would basically need him to draft well. He’s good at that. The Bills have had success drafting later in the draft but the roster lacks high end talent. If you had a choice of Joe Schoen running a draft or Brandon Beane, I’m taking Schoen 10 times out of 10. If you’re talking about building out a roster top to bottom, it’s Beane.

Ironically the great pass rush supplied by former Panther Brian Burns not top 3 pick Abdul Carter. 

[colin]

2 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Ironically the great pass rush supplied by former Panther Brian Burns not top 3 pick Abdul Carter. 

the one panther we didn't sign!!

[SectionC3]

Schoen and this is where it gets tough.  Probably Daboll,  and I recognize the insanity of taking the guys the Giants fired.  But I don’t know that I’d swap out both GM and coach.  If it’s one or the other,  then it’s easy.  Beane is gone.  He fell in love with his guys and did a lot of overpaying and frankly missed too much.  This years WR room did it for me. 

Edited 1 hour ago by SectionC3

[The Jokeman]

Just now, colin said:

the one panther we didn't sign!!

To be fair they got him in a trade.