Perspective Matters: The Offense Is Producing

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Blank Stare said:

It is until it isn’t. Which unfortunately happens in the most critical moments. 

right lol

 

have we not been paying attention the last 5yrs? the offense ALWAYS produces and it's never been quite good enough

[Magox]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

right lol

 

have we not been paying attention the last 5yrs? the offense ALWAYS produces and it's never been quite good enough

 

So the plan is… Fix the good thing because the bad thing is too broken?
That’s like refusing to upgrade your car’s engine because the tires are flat.
Pretty sure progress isn’t supposed to be held hostage by hopelessness

[Mikie2times]

We have been a top 3 DVOA team since the beginning of time. We haven't closed the deal. Nobody is arguing this is a bad team. They're arguing we have shown nothing further to suggest we are more likely to avoid our standard playoff demise.  

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

So the plan is… Fix the good thing because the bad thing is too broken?
That’s like refusing to upgrade your car’s engine because the tires are flat.
Pretty sure progress isn’t supposed to be held hostage by hopelessness

correct

 

improve on what you do well

 

and let's be clear- the engine is allen and the offense. you want to fix a cracked windshield and i want to put a turbo in

[Magox]

3 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

We have been a top 3 DVOA team since the beginning of time. We haven't closed the deal. Nobody is arguing this is a bad team. They're arguing we have shown nothing further to suggest we are more likely to avoid our standard playoff demise.  

 

And what is the biggest culprit for those losses?  Is it wide receiver separation or the defense?

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

 

I don't care. 

 

Buffalo was second in points scored last year, third in point differential, etc. during the regular season.  And they still barely got past Baltimore in the Divisional Round game and had to grind it out in the AFC CG.  

 

The offense is built to succeed in the regular season and falters under the weight of greater expectations and pressure in the post-season.      

 "Barely got by Baltimore...."

 

You mean the team that was favored to beat us in the AFC Divisional round?  

They were top 10 in both offense and defense.  They had 4 All Pros.

 

LOL...even with a great win like that, you still try to find a way to make it like it wasn't a big playoff win.

Narratives.

 

[Ga boy]

29 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Here are my thoughts:

 

1) The Bills are running the offense they want to run and it's intentional that they are not focusing on deeper throws.

 

2) The focus is on ball control, efficiency, taking layups repeatedly and rolling up points and running clock.

 

3) This then causes the other team to have fewer possessions and they have to match the Bills efficiency on offense which usually doesn't happen.

 

4) This usually results in the Bills winning by 2+ scores most games

 

And that's really it. We want them to throw the ball farther down field, they don't really care.

 

Their focus is on execution, paying attention to details and taking easy yards on any given play, then running the ball down your throat every chance they get.

 

Is it sexy? No.

Is it effective? Yes.

Do we have to like it? No.

Do we have to accept it? Yes.

 

Very Tom Bradyish which is not by accident,  except he at least threw long ball 2-3xs to keep em honest.

[Jerome007]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

For me, there are 2 clear flaws and it has been exposed multiple times this year (in wins and losses). The guys on the outside can’t get open and they can’t stop the run.

Hoecht was to help big time to stop the run. He was a total beast in the 7 quarters he played. He and Oliver are now gone. Just like when Von Miller was brought in to close games. It was all intelligent plans by Beane and the Bills brass, but injuries derailed it. 

[hondo in seattle]

28 minutes ago, Ga boy said:

I’d like to see long completions too, but this staff wants to control the clock to limit the other teams TOP, which is fundamental to complementary football.  Also, Dan Fouts played against different defenses.

 

I laugh as I wonder if this is a sly comment about my age because I remember enjoying watching Dan Fouts play quarterback.  

 

And, indeed, teams back then tended to defend the run first. Now teams defend the pass first and have gotten very sophisticated about it.  It's hard to throw deep these days.  

 

Still, I don't count Brady as an elite pass X-and-O guy.  Fouts was blessed with Don Coryell of "Air Coryell" fame as his HC (and the solid Ernie Zambese as his OC).  In my lifetime, I'll probably never see a QB as talented as Josh under center for the Bills again.  It would be great if he were similarly paired with a pass-game genius.  "Air Brady" isn't a thing.  

[Big Turk]

12 minutes ago, Ga boy said:

Very Tom Bradyish which is not by accident,  except he at least threw long ball 2-3xs to keep em honest.

 

Or in this case "Crow" Brady-ish...and he is also carrying "Grape" Davis, "Thermos" Thomas and "Fax" Hairston along with his cousin "Wax" Hairston to safety! 😂😂

 

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DQnMXZHkiDX/

Edited 2 hours ago by Big Turk

[Luka]

Having a real playmaker on the outside makes the offense better in critical moments. I don't think that this is a point anyone should be arguing against. I will say however, that a lot of the passing game "issues" lie within the scheme and the play calling. We have playmakers. Shakir finished 2nd in yards of separation last year and is currently 6th in the league. And we know how lethal he can be once the ball is in his hands. We have Kincaid who is 1st in yards after catch amongst tight ends, Allen's passer rating is 158.1 when throwing to him. And we have Cook, who really needs to see more usage in the passing game. He was considered an elite pass catcher with high level route running. He was Georgia's 4th leading receiver, which considering he was splitting time with 3 to 4 other running backs, was impressive coming out of college. And frankly, any time he touches the ball, it's good for the team.

 

I am fairly confident in my assessment of the offense because the Chiefs game we saw significantly more emphasis on Shakir, Kincaid and Cook. And the offense looked arguably the best it had all season. Going forward, this is the formula. The "everybody eats" mantra was cute and a way to take a shot at Diggs, but in reality, the ball needs to be put in the real playmakers hands. Only then do things start to open up for other guys as the defense is forced to adjust to stop the bleeding, so to speak. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Luka
Bad writing.

[Ga boy]

5 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Or in this case "Crow" Brady-ish

 

 

TB12 had a good OL too, and he knew where and when to throw it.  JA17 is not there yet, and improvises more.

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, Luka said:

Having a real playmaker on the outside makes the offense better in critical moments. I don't think that this is a point anyone should be arguing against. I will say however, that a lot of the passing game "issues" lie within the scheme and the play calling. We have playmakers. Shakir finished 2nd in yards of separation last year and is currently 6th in the league. And we know how lethal he can be once the ball is in his hands. We have Kincaid who is 1st in yards after catch amongst tight ends, Allen's passer rating is 158.1 when throwing to him. And we have Cook, who really needs to see more usage in the passing game. He was considered an elite pass catcher with high level route running. He was Georgia's 4th leading receiver, which considering he was splitting time with 3 to 4 other running backs, was impressive coming out of college. And frankly, any time he touches the ball, it's good for the team.

 

I am fairly confident in my assessment of the offense because the Chiefs game we saw significantly more emphasis on Shakir, Kincaid and Cook. And the offense looked arguably the best it had all season. Going forward, this is the formula. The "everybody eats" mantra was cute and a way to take a shot at Diggs, but in reality, the ball needs to be put in the real playmakers hands. Only then do things start to open up for other guys as the defense is forced to adjust to stop the bleeding, so to speak. 

 

Why can't we get Moore or Samuel open more like we did against KC on that one play?  Both have the skills and speed to get open on those type of plays.

[Rockinon]

8 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I laugh as I wonder if this is a sly comment about my age because I remember enjoying watching Dan Fouts play quarterback.  

 

And, indeed, teams back then tended to defend the run first. Now teams defend the pass first and have gotten very sophisticated about it.  It's hard to throw deep these days.  

 

Still, I don't count Brady as an elite pass X-and-O guy.  Fouts was blessed with Don Coryell of "Air Coryell" fame as his HC (and the solid Ernie Zambese as his OC).  In my lifetime, I'll probably never see a QB as talented as Josh under center for the Bills again.  It would be great if he were similarly paired with a pass-game genius.  "Air Brady" isn't a thing.  

Brady did have a hand in on the most prolific passing offense in college history. When he came to Buffalo and was elevated to OC, I assumed that was the direction we were headed. Boy was I wrong. 🤣

[Luka]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

Why can't we get Moore or Samuel open more like we did against KC on that one play?  Both have the skills and speed to get open on those type of plays.

 

Because we were focusing on Shakir, Kincaid and Cook. We haven't been doing that to the extent we did against KC.

 

I would love to see Moore be more involved and I think if the offense stays on this trajectory, he will be just from the coverage leaving him more 1 on 1 opportunities down field. 

[Big Turk]

7 minutes ago, Luka said:

 

Because we were focusing on Shakir, Kincaid and Cook. We haven't been doing that to the extent we did against KC.

 

I would love to see Moore be more involved and I think if the offense stays on this trajectory, he will be just from the coverage leaving him more 1 on 1 opportunities down field. 

 

People were bagging on that signing, but I mean I look at this dude playing on teams with revolving trashcans at QB his whole career and the man puts up decent numbers, has 4.3 speed, there has to be more that we can do to get him involved in those type of plays.

 

That's why I don't think it's necessarily fair to say we "need" a WR, I think we just need to choose to use the ones we have differently and take advantage of their abilities in certain areas of the field more.  There is no reason why Moore couldn't be more of a weapon in the intermediate and long pass game. 

 

I mean are we trying to pull an Andy Reid, play close to the vest in some areas and save that for the playoffs like the Chiefs did to us? Are we going to see Air Allen in the playoffs and try and catch teams off guard, specifically the Chiefs if we play them?  If so, I think that would show McD and Brady are really taking lessons and learning from what they had happen to them and what they have seen other teams do that works really well.

Edited 2 hours ago by Big Turk

[VW82]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

no

 

the subtext of the WR criticisms is some fans want to win a championship and some fans are more concerned about where to lay the blame

 

If the goal was to win a SB this year at all costs then we'd have mortgaged the future for Hoecht and Oliver replacements.

 

The subtext is fans want to see Allen throw the ball more, and possibly that they don't understand you can't win a SB without a balanced roster.

Edited 2 hours ago by VW82

[Luka]

3 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

People were bagging on that signing, but I mean I look at this dude playing on teams with revolving trashcans at QB his whole career and the man puts up decent numbers, has 4.3 speed, there has to be more that we can do to get him involved in those type of plays.

 

That's why I don't think it's necessarily fair to say we "need" a WR, I think we just need to choose to use the ones we have differently and take advantage of their abilities in certain areas of the field more.  There is no reason why Moore couldn't be more of a weapon in the intermediate and long pass game.

 

Per my first post, I agree. I think Brady's general scheme is great but we need to start looking at specifically getting certain guys involved. 

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, Luka said:

 

Per my first post, I agree. I think Brady's general scheme is great but we need to start looking at specifically getting certain guys involved. 

 

I'm really starting to wonder if they are doing what Reid did to us last year and learned from it by holding things back and then changing it up for the playoffs, specifically if we see KC again. They seem to be very happy with not doing a whole lot unless they feel it's necessary to win, and most of the time it's not because the run game is so good and Allen is happy to take easy yards and we score a ton of points and move the ball super efficiently.

Edited 2 hours ago by Big Turk

[ddaryl]

I feel a lot better about our chances after the Chiefs game. We looked good. I hope we are just gaining speed because what matters is how you finish the season, not start it. I've seen so many teams over the years come out of the gates hot only to lose all that steam down the stretch. To me the best teams end the regular season better than how they started it. SO I am glad to see us play such a complete game against a top team.



Perspective Matters: Weed helps!

Edited 2 hours ago by ddaryl