My view on the Bills Defensive Problems

[mannc]

I think it is also fair at this point to ask whether there is something about the defensive scheme, or possibly the type of players McDermott favors, that leads to higher injury rates.  This defense is decimated with injuries year after year after year.  We’re reaching the point where it’s hard to believe it’s just a coincidence.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

42 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

They are 14th this year at 22.8. We don't need an elite D when we have an elite O. 14th is plenty good enough to win a Super Bowl with.

 

In the playoffs they allow an average of 24.0 PPG since 2018. The real issue in the playoffs is their inability to get off the field against KC when they do just fine during the regular season in that regard. 

 

Regular season, KC has averaged 20 PPG against them, in the playoffs they average 34 PPG.  There is no excuse for the exact same team with the exact same players to be 2 TD better against you in the playoffs than the regular season over a span of 4+ years.

 

1) LB injuries/AJ Klein

2) Benford injury/Elam

[Rousseauisnoschmo]

59 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

You realize the Bills D has allowed the fewest points in the NFL since 2018 when Allen has gotten here right?  

 

I mean we can talk about all this, that and the other, but the bottom line is the only thing that matters is how often the other team scores, and the Bills are the best in the NFL over that time in preventing it.

 

 

 

 

The Bills also have allowed the fewest yards in the NFL over that span as well, and BY FAR, the lowest passing yards allowed also.

 

What are we doing?  Making up stuff that never happened?

Lets make sure to conveniently forget how this defense completely melts down against KC in the playoffs. Thats something that has happened. Four times.

[BuffaloBillyG]

We can point to scheme all we want. However this defensive scheme and mentality has been successful in the past and is still used by and successfully ran by other teams.

 

It always comes back to lack of talent. We just don't have the horses to drive this style of play any longer. When we ran this defense with prime Milano, Taron, Poyer, Hyde, Tre and they were all in their prime it got results. All 5 of those guys were key components that are now often injured, less effective, broken down, retired and washed respectively. Beane has done a mediocre job replacing talent with talent. It seems to my eye, Everytime we have lost a player on defense we replaced them with a guy that's not quite as good. It's going from Poyer and Hyde to Hamlin/Bishop and Rapp. Guys that are good depth that they insist on starting. We have no speed, no one with any ball hawk skills in the secondary. Our small linebackers get swept away in the rush. There are no guys in that defense that we can rely on to make a big game altering play in a big spot.

 

And that's what we lack the most. Actual playmakers on defense. We have plenty of "steady Eddies". Guys that can be part of doing their 1/11th. But no one that can elevate in key moments. That's what Von was supposed to be. That's what I was hoping to see out of Bosa. 

[BuffaloBillies]

Most of this discussion is centered around pass plays. The bigger issue imo is stopping the run first. Otherwise, nothing else matters.

 

Teams are very consistently hitting the off-tackle 5 and 6 hole with great success against us.

Our DE gets kicked out, they block down on our DT opening a huge hole.

Their WRs blocks our CBs and either other OLs or lead backs are sealing off our LBs.

It's creating HUGE holes.

And then we rely on our safeties to come make a play, and they fail more times than not.

 

We struggle to identify these plays and seemingly NO ONE is getting off their blocks.

And teams are running these plays 5-10 times a game, and we have no answer.

And I look pre-snap, and our splits between DT and DE (Edge) leaves a huge gap in the 5/6 holes.

 

We need to:

(a) get off blocks! especially DE/DT and pinch those holes

(b) narrow the pre-snap gap splits

(c) recognize the play quicker

(d) toughen the hell up

[KOKBILLS]

If you want to simplify the problems on Defense in 2025 down to the biggest problem that is actually really easy...

It's missed tackles and it's not even close...

There are certainly other issues... But missed tackles have absolutely killed us this year so far. 

 

[Big Turk]

5 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

We can point to scheme all we want. However this defensive scheme and mentality has been successful in the past and is still used by and successfully ran by other teams.

 

It always comes back to lack of talent. We just don't have the horses to drive this style of play any longer. When we ran this defense with prime Milano, Taron, Poyer, Hyde, Tre and they were all in their prime it got results. All 5 of those guys were key components that are now often injured, less effective, broken down, retired and washed respectively. Beane has done a mediocre job replacing talent with talent. It seems to my eye, Everytime we have lost a player on defense we replaced them with a guy that's not quite as good. It's going from Poyer and Hyde to Hamlin/Bishop and Rapp. Guys that are good depth that they insist on starting. We have no speed, no one with any ball hawk skills in the secondary. Our small linebackers get swept away in the rush. There are no guys in that defense that we can rely on to make a big game altering play in a big spot.

 

And that's what we lack the most. Actual playmakers on defense. We have plenty of "steady Eddies". Guys that can be part of doing their 1/11th. But no one that can elevate in key moments. That's what Von was supposed to be. That's what I was hoping to see out of Bosa. 

 

I think the loss of Edmunds and how important he was to what we do schematically on D in the passing game was vastly understated.

 

It used to be really hard to even complete 5 yard passes against this team.

2 minutes ago, BuffaloBillies said:

Most of this discussion is centered around pass plays. The bigger issue imo is stopping the run first. Otherwise, nothing else matters.

 

Teams are very consistently hitting the off-tackle 5 and 6 hole with great success against us.

Our DE gets kicked out, they block down on our DT opening a huge hole.

Their WRs blocks our CBs and either other OLs or lead backs are sealing off our LBs.

It's creating HUGE holes.

And then we rely on our safeties to come make a play, and they fail more times than not.

 

We struggle to identify these plays and seemingly NO ONE is getting off their blocks.

And teams are running these plays 5-10 times a game, and we have no answer.

And I look pre-snap, and our splits between DT and DE (Edge) leaves a huge gap in the 5/6 holes.

 

We need to:

(a) get off blocks! especially DE/DT and pinch those holes

(b) narrow the pre-snap gap splits

(c) recognize the play quicker

(d) toughen the hell up

 

I don't agree. Most teams are not going to be able to beat us by running the ball if the offense is playing at its normal level.

 

The Falcons succeeded because we scored 14 points, not because of them running. We had plenty of chances to score points and failed to do so.

 

The Bills are willing to give up some plays in the run game to do better against the pass.

 

Clearly they would like to do better in some areas, but in general they aren't worried about the run as much as the pass.

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

3 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

I think the loss of Edmunds and how important he was to what we do schematically on D in the passing game was vastly understated.

 

It used to be really hard to even complete 5 yard passes against this team.

Yeah, for how much hate he got here (some of it justified) he really was a key component in the middle. It's unfortunate that Chicago gave him such a huge contract and we lost him. 

[billsfan714]

We are last in yards per carry rushing.  5.8 yards per carry allowed.   Dead last in the NFL by half a yard.

Edited 4 hours ago by billsfan714

[cba fan]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

You realize the Bills D has allowed the fewest points in the NFL since 2018 when Allen has gotten here right?  

 

I mean we can talk about all this, that and the other, but the bottom line is the only thing that matters is how often the other team scores, and the Bills are the best in the NFL over that time in preventing it.

 

 

 

 

The Bills also have allowed the fewest yards in the NFL over that span as well, and BY FAR, the lowest passing yards allowed also.

 

What are we doing?  Making up stuff that never happened?

compare playoffs then.  But none of it means jack shiit when they get smoked in games that matter by Chiefs 

[Paup 1995MVP]

53 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

No argument from me on either of those. Bills D is in flux right now I think and my hope is that with some more time to gel with new and young players and players coming back into the lineup, it will solidify down the back stretch of the season.  

 

Playoff D is essentially "Why does KC score 2 TDs more per game in the playoffs against us than in the regular season?" 

 

If they can solve that one problem, they will win Super Bowls.

 

It shows the defense is in flux right now and it's still early in the season. Perhaps it may not be as good, but perhaps it will get better. I don't care what it looks like until we get into the playoffs honestly. If they play their 4 best games of the season in the playoffs, and we have to suffer thru some tough games in the regular season, I'll take it.

All your talk about the defense is great.  
 

But this is still an offensive league.  And you need some sort of consistent vertical passing game in this era to be successful. 
 

So we had better figure out how to get some big plays in the passing game.  Otherwise every game we play from here on in this season will be a grind.  

[BuffaloBillies]

8 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

I don't agree. Most teams are not going to be able to beat us by running the ball if the offense is playing at its normal level.

The Falcons succeeded because we scored 14 points, not because of them running. We had plenty of chances to score points and failed to do so.

The Bills are willing to give up some plays in the run game to do better against the pass.

Clearly they would like to do better in some areas, but in general they aren't worried about the run as much as the pass.

 

 

We are dead last in Defense YPC (5.8 yards), 2nd to last in 20+ yard run plays against (7), 2nd to last in 40+ yard run plays against (4), 5th to last in total rushing yards against (938). AND, we already had our bye and many teams have not yet.

[billsfan714]

7 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

All your talk about the defense is great.  
 

But this is still an offensive league.  And you need some sort of consistent vertical passing game in this era to be successful. 
 

So we had better figure out how to get some big plays in the passing game.  Otherwise every game we play from here on in this season will be a grind.  

Remind me, how did the Bengals do last year? Superbowl--Eagles defense outscored the Chiefs offense almost through 3 quarters.  Defense also matters.

Edited 4 hours ago by billsfan714

[GunnerBill]

The defense this year is bad. But over the years despite the fact that they have had some playoff failures in big spots they have been a good defense. I don't think the scheme is fundamentally bad. Although the way we are trying to play and call it right now is not conducive to being successful.  

[billsfan714]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

The defense this year is bad. But over the years despite the fact that they have had some playoff failures in big spots they have been a good defense. I don't think the scheme is fundamentally bad. Although the way we are trying to play and call it right now is not conducive to being successful.  

I disagree, good defenses show up in big games.  Ive yet to see when it matters most.

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

You realize the Bills D has allowed the fewest points in the NFL since 2018 when Allen has gotten here right?  

 

I mean we can talk about all this, that and the other, but the bottom line is the only thing that matters is how often the other team scores, and the Bills are the best in the NFL over that time in preventing it.

 

 

 

 

The Bills also have allowed the fewest yards in the NFL over that span as well, and BY FAR, the lowest passing yards allowed also.

 

What are we doing?  Making up stuff that never happened?

Is it also possible that we lead in passing yards because opponents (at least the good ones) run the ball against us more successfully. It is a question.

[26TrapDraw]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

You realize the Bills D has allowed the fewest points in the NFL since 2018 when Allen has gotten here right?  

 

I mean we can talk about all this, that and the other, but the bottom line is the only thing that matters is how often the other team scores, and the Bills are the best in the NFL over that time in preventing it.

 

 

 

 

The Bills also have allowed the fewest yards in the NFL over that span as well, and BY FAR, the lowest passing yards allowed also.

 

What are we doing?  Making up stuff that never happened?

You also realize that when it matters this defense folds like a napkin right?

if this defense is so awesome why don’t we have any Lombardi trophies averaging around 30 points a game the last 4 years?

Edited 4 hours ago by 26TrapDraw

[dcinmuncie]

There has been massive regression from rapp, benford, Bernard, Johnson and Rousseau. When 5 of your 11 starts take pretty big steps back, you have to wonder if they all just ‘suck’ all of a sudden or if it’s trying to fit a round ball in a square or whatever 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

18 minutes ago, billsfan714 said:

I disagree, good defenses show up in big games.  Ive yet to see when it matters most.

Those are the most important games, that's what it's all about.

[ganesh]

7 minutes ago, dcinmuncie said:

There has been massive regression from rapp, benford, Bernard, Johnson and Rousseau. When 5 of your 11 starts take pretty big steps back, you have to wonder if they all just ‘suck’ all of a sudden or if it’s trying to fit a round ball in a square or whatever 

the same has happened to the OL.