Beans and Sean - Should we miss the SB again

[mjt328]

2 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

Out of curiosity, do you think we have the best roster in the AFC?  If not, why would you fire your coach if we don't reach the SB?  

 

Have we ever had the best roster in the AFC? And I mean the guys who suited up, not guys on IR or suspended. 

 

You and I probably evaluate the talent on the team differently because since McD arrived, I've never thought Beane gave him a Lombardi-quality squad to work with.  If we want McD to win a SB, we're asking him to overperform with what he's been given.   

 

This is a very fair and complicated question to answer.

 

In some ways, I do feel like Beane has provided a supporting roster good enough to win the Super Bowl.  In other ways, I'm tired of him struggling to find high-impact players at key positions (D-Line in particular).  At the same time, I feel like McDermott has done a good job with building the locker room/culture.  But I also think his defensive scheme fairs poorly in the playoffs, and is becoming more outdated with each passing season.

 

Every January for the past five years, I've asked the same questions... "What is holding us back, and what do we need to change?"  Why do we keep winning so many games in the regular season, but just can't get over the hump in the playoffs?  Is it injuries?  Bad luck?  A mental block against the Chiefs?  Is it purely a lack of talent?  Lack of execution?  Poor gameplan?  

 

I'll be honest.  I'm not 100% sure of the answer.  

But I do know this.  Josh Allen is not the problem.  And he won't be playing at this level forever.

 

Maybe it's McDermott.  Maybe it's Beane.  Maybe it's a combination of both.  

My point is... if we can't get over the hump THIS year... with literally everything falling into place for us, then we just need to take the chance and replace them both.  The worst thing that can happen is we get back to the same place with a different group.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 07:11 PM by mjt328

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

Do so many Bills fans forget that this team is currently 4-1 and at the top of the AFC with Jacksonville and Indy? Daniel Jones, really?

 

The bleating endlessly about changing the GM/HC because the team hasn't made it to a Super Bowl or won one with Joah Allen. Allow me to give some insight, as #17 is not perfect 

 

Josh Allen scrambled out of the pocket on the final scoring drive against the New England Patriots in a recent game, missing a wide-open Curtis Samuel as he anticipated pressure that didn't materialize, instead forcing a pass that was almost intercepted. The play design would have worked if Allen had stayed in the pocket, but his premature scramble negated the opportunity, resulting in a late and hurried throw to a different receiver. 

 

Samuel's Opportunity: While Allen was scrambling, a wide-open Curtis Samuel was running toward the opposite side of the field, creating a potentially easy touchdown.

 

STUFF HAPPENS!

 

So many fans seem to forget that the 2024 Buffalo Bills were the highest scoring offense in the league, playoffs included. The Bills made it to the AFC Championship game only to be screwed by the refs in spotting the ball ...not inches off target ...but feet. So much so that the NFL has now changed how it makes controversial spots.

 

Now, in this last game, the lead ref is Shawn Hoculi, and he has a thing against the Buffalo Bills, it seems. 

 

 

This isn't about one game, one missed call, or are current record.  Even if we won that game we'd be having the same conversation.  Our combined opponents are now 5-15.  The teams we beat win total combined is two.  Four of the five games were at home.  The Dolphins and Saints in particular shouldn't have been that close.

 

All the previous problems that causes us to lose in the divisional/championship rounds the last five years has been on full display this season despite our 4-1 record.  On the defense it's shaky run defense, poor tackling, an average pass rush at best, a lack of athleticism in the secondary, and an inability to get off the field on 3rd downs.  We have a really good offense but not having that number 1 WR you can rely on to get open in a need to have it situation is missing.  You saw it in full display with Diggs playing out of his mind on Sunday night.  I understand the retort is Diggs never rose to the occasion in our playoff losses.  However, that doesn't mean another WR1 wouldn't rise to the occasion.  

 

I don't think Pegula will fire Beane or McDermott.  However, I'd get rid of them both if we have a fairly healthy team come playoff time and lose in a similar way to the previous five playoff exits.  The sample size is big enough now.  I don't know if the new staff would be a downgrade or an upgrade but we can't keep spinning our wheels.

[Buffalo Boy]

2 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

We went 11-6 that year with a defense that finished number ONE in points allowed, yards, and 3rd down defense.  That was a Sean McDermott coach defense that often bailed the offense out.  We don't make it to that point with Rex Ryan's defense.  I'm sorry.  Once the league caught up to his defense he got really stubborn and never adjusted because of his stubbornness/arrogance.  That's why he's sitting in an ESPN studio right now publicly begging for a job.

And what did McD’s defense do in the biggest moment?

Would man coverage coupled with a blitz been worse? I know, we can’t know but giving the cushion that was given to the fastest receiver( Hill …wtf!!!)  on their team and rushing four guys who weren’t doing BLEEB all game. Ant the effing up the ST play?!?!?!?!?

Sorry, in retrospect I’m taking Rex 10 times out of ten in that three play moment.

[Doc Brown]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

And what did McD’s defense do in the biggest moment?

Would man coverage coupled with a blitz been worse? I know, we can’t know but giving the cushion that was given to the fastest receiver( Hill …wtf!!!)  on their team and rushing four guys who weren’t doing BLEEB all game. Ant the effing up the ST play?!?!?!?!?

Sorry, in retrospect I’m taking Rex 10 times out of ten in that three play moment.

In that specific three play sequence I would take you over Sean McDermott.

[Nihilarian]

45 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

This isn't about one game, one missed call, or are current record.  Even if we won that game we'd be having the same conversation.  Our combined opponents are now 5-15.  The teams we beat win total combined is two.  Four of the five games were at home.  The Dolphins and Saints in particular shouldn't have been that close.

 

All the previous problems that causes us to lose in the divisional/championship rounds the last five years has been on full display this season despite our 4-1 record.  On the defense it's shaky run defense, poor tackling, an average pass rush at best, a lack of athleticism in the secondary, and an inability to get off the field on 3rd downs.  We have a really good offense but not having that number 1 WR you can rely on to get open in a need to have it situation is missing.  You saw it in full display with Diggs playing out of his mind on Sunday night.  I understand the retort is Diggs never rose to the occasion in our playoff losses.  However, that doesn't mean another WR1 wouldn't rise to the occasion.  

 

I don't think Pegula will fire Beane or McDermott.  However, I'd get rid of them both if we have a fairly healthy team come playoff time and lose in a similar way to the previous five playoff exits.  The sample size is big enough now.  I don't know if the new staff would be a downgrade or an upgrade but we can't keep spinning our wheels.

Hey, I agree with a lot here.

 

However, that #1 WR we had in Diggs faded at the end of the season and went invisible in the playoffs the last few times. The good teams can take away a #1 WR and perhaps even two of them. Buffalo had the #! scoring offense in 2024 without that #1 guy, who is almost always a diva and wants the ball every play. A #1 WR isn't going to make or break this offense come playoff time. 

 

Diggs' last game for Buffalo against KC, 8 targets, 3 receptions for 21 yards! All game long. The Chiefs had LJarius Sneed and Trent McDuffie at CB...two of the best. Sneed was covering Diggs in the first half and went to cover Shakir in the second half. This CB hadn't allowed a TD to anyone all year long until Shakir caught a TD in that game. 

 

And yeah, Buffalo ended up drafting Kaiir Elam because the Chiefs traded up right before them in the draft to steal away CB Trent McDuffie. Elam was a mental case, and he needed to go after getting smoked by KC last year. 

 

The main reason the Buffalo secondary looked so bad against the Patriots is simple. Tre White played poorly and was toasted by Diggs. If the rest of the secondary were playing up to par, he wouldn't look so bad. All of the Buffalo starters are having a subpar year, except perhaps Cole Bishop. A player who missed a lot of time at the start of last year and is still learning as he goes. 

 

Christian Benford, who was a star CB the last two seasons, is not looking so good this year. With Dorian Strong out and Hairston on IR, things might not get better until after the bye. I wouldn't be surprised if Beane traded for a CB at this point because who knows how long it will take to get that #1 pick up to speed, as he hasn't practiced since July? 

 

The Buffalo defense is doing better than it looks, considering all the problems they have right now. Then look at the Baltimore Ravens and all their injuries 1-4. I can't even imagine what this board would be like if Buffalo were 1-4. 

[hondo in seattle]

2 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

This is a very fair and complicated question to answer.

 

In some ways, I do feel like Beane has provided a supporting roster good enough to win the Super Bowl.  In other ways, I'm tired of him struggling to find high-impact players at key positions (D-Line in particular).  At the same time, I feel like McDermott has done a good job with building the locker room/culture.  But I also think his defensive scheme fairs poorly in the playoffs, and is becoming more outdated with each passing season.

 

Every January for the past five years, I've asked the same questions... "What is holding us back, and what do we need to change?"  Why do we keep winning so many games in the regular season, but just can't get over the hump in the playoffs?  Is it injuries?  Bad luck?  A mental block against the Chiefs?  Is it purely a lack of talent?  Lack of execution?  Poor gameplan?  

 

I'll be honest.  I'm not 100% sure of the answer.  

But I do know this.  Josh Allen is not the problem.  And he won't be playing at this level forever.

 

Maybe it's McDermott.  Maybe it's Beane.  Maybe it's a combination of both.  

My point is... if we can't get over the hump THIS year... with literally everything falling into place for us, then we just need to take the chance and replace them both.  The worst thing that can happen is we get back to the same place with a different group.

 

 

 

Good answer and I struggle with some of the same questions and uncertainties.  

 

I worry about the ticking of the Allen clock.  I also worry about the truth behind the saying, "Good is the enemy of great."  I think Beane is a good GM.  I think McD is a good HC.  But maybe we need someone who's more than 'good' to get us a Lombardi?  I just don't know how many of those guys are available.

Ultimately, when we're close - playoffs every year - I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.  I want to take the good we have, refine it, and make it Lombardi quality. I want Beane to plus-up his FO and McD to plus-up his coaching staff.  

 

I do fear the possibility of Beane and McD remaining in place for the next ten years and never delivering the goods.  Would I rethink my position then?  For sure.  But right now, if I'm Pegs, I'm encouraging/pressuring them to make progress but I'm not yet replacing them.  

Whatever happens, I hope we both get to see Josh raise a trophy at the end of a season.  

 

 

[Albwan]

8 hours ago, Sweats said:

And i say unto you, oh my Bills Mafia brethren..........if our team couldn't win one SB in the 90's with (not even debatable) the best O and best D roster that this franchise has ever seen, do you honestly think that we are winning one anytime soon with the O and D roster we have now?!?

 

I'll wait.

[Buffalo Boy]

2 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

In that specific three play sequence I would take you over Sean McDermott.

Might not be your best decision Doc😜

[Alphadawg7]

If we dont at least reach the SB, then I think everything should be reevaluated, including both McD and Beane.  But - honestly with Beane, I think the odds are much greater that we would get worse at GM, not better if we got rid of him  Look around the league, there are not a lot of good GMs.  And if you look at the "hot" GM's fans (many here) clamor for over the years, those same GM's are on the hot seat or fired shortly after and often for the things fans loved them for - big over pay moves that didn't work out and set the franchise back.

 

I think the more reasonable approach would to first make a change at HC before I would clear out Beane.  Especially when Beane is building the roster around his coaches and what they want.  If you are going to make a change, then start with the coaches and see how things go for another season with Beane before you gamble on replacing him with someone who is a lot more likely to be a downgrade than an upgrade.

[Doc Brown]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

Might not be your best decision Doc😜

You couldn't do any worse.  It's why I'd be a terrible owner.  I wouldn't have left McDermott take the plane back after 13 seconds as heated as I was.

[HappyDays]

13 hours ago, BuffaloMatt said:

2020 - 13-3

2021 -  11-6

2022 - 13-3

2023 - 11-6

2024 - 13-4

Coupled with 5 division titles. Yeah they're getting fired (sarcasm for the limited few reading this). The NFL is big business and this team is extremely profitable as the product being put on the field is top notch. Pegula is not going to tip the apple cart. There is a reason he is a billionaire. 

 

If the year ends in similar disappointment as every other year, the fanbase will be restless. Having a brand new coaching staff in place as the new stadium opens would be extremely marketable. "Come watch the next stage of Josh Allen's career." The excitement in WNY would be palpable. Like you couldn't draw it up any better than that.

 

By the way I don't think Pegula is actually going to fire McDermott after this season no matter what happens. But it won't be because he's thinking about dollar signs. It will be because he genuinely likes McDermott as a person and I don't think he has it in him to put his head on the chopping block unless the bottom completely falls out. As long as we're going to the playoffs he'll convince himself good enough is good enough.

[LabattBlue]

Not a big fan of either of McD or BB, but they are going nowhere. Pegula just is not going to fire them. 

[HappyDays]

13 hours ago, jwhit34 said:

Give us the names of 3 people who are or would be available that would be a head coaching upgrade over Sean McDermott.

 

In another thread this is how I ranked my options:

 

1) Kevin Stefanski (if the Browns fire him)

2) Brian Flores

3) Robert Saleh

4) Klint Kubiak

5) Kliff Kingsbury/Vance Joseph

 

I favor picking a retread coach because the clock is ticking on Allen's career and I'd rather not have someone learning on the job if I could help it.

 

Flores and Saleh would have to come with the right OC but Allen is going to be successful regardless of who the OC is and I'm sure they'd have their pick of the litter given the career opportunity of getting to coach Josh Allen's offense.

 

Kingsbury and Joseph I kind of just threw in there as the other retreads floating around the league who have since had successful stints as coordinators, but I'm not sure either of them have the right temperament to be a head coach. At a certain point though I'd be willing to try even them over McDermott because I just can't imagine a significantly lower floor.

 

Kubiak is the easy choice if you're trying to pick the young offensive coach. Like I said I'd rather not waste too much time on a newbie learning on the job but his coaching resume is legit and he could probably build an almost unstoppable offense in Allen's remaining prime years. I could be convinced he deserves to be higher on this list.

 

13 hours ago, jwhit34 said:

Give us the names of 3 people who are or would be available that would be a GM upgrade over Brandon Beane.

 

The head coach picks the GM these days so this question is irrelevant.

 

Edited 14 hours ago by HappyDays

[Buffalo Boy]

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

You couldn't do any worse.  It's why I'd be a terrible owner.  I wouldn't have left McDermott take the plane back after 13 seconds as heated as I was.

We were at 13 seconds, I looked at my wife and son and said, “ This isn’t over yet.” 
Then I started jabbering “ They're gonna squib it…..They’ve got to squib it, right???”

Then I started screaming at the TV, “ Why are you giving Hill that cushion?!?! Jam his arse!!!!!”

The rest is history 

I was surprised but not fully……life of a Bills fan😮

 

[TheFunPolice]

Allen will never have another HC with the Bills.

 

It isn't even worth getting worked up about.

 

One year the WR will drop the 13 seconds ball or a DL will make the sack and we'll advance. 

Edited 6 hours ago by TheFunPolice

[skibum]

Beane is as good a GM as we could hope for. McD has his flaws, but Andy Reid is the only guy I would expect to have a better chance of winning the SB. I think hiring anyone else is just rolling the dice. And Andy Reid ain't available. 

[Nihilarian]

Believe it or not, Sean McDermott was a first-time NFL HC hire by Buffalo.

 

McD was the Carolina DC before coming here, and before that, he was the DC in Philly under Andy Reid. His roots go back to 1999, and he was an NFL scouting coordinator for the Eagles, Assistant HC, Defensive quality control, assistant DB coach, secondary, and linebackers, then DC. 

 

Don't some of you realize the culture the man has built in Buffalo? What are the words "the process"?  NFL players now love coming and playing in Buffalo. This simply wasn't the case before McD, as players didn't like the small city, small media life, the small nightlife, or the cold weather. Now it's a family affair, and players feel the brotherly love towards each other. This type of atmosphere simply doesn't happen very often with other NFL teams. Where was the Bills mafia previous to 2017?

 

In his first year in Buffalo, McD took this team to the playoffs with Tyrod Taylor and Nathan Peterman at QB. His first draft, before Beane even got to Buffalo, the Bills drafted Tre White, Dion Dawkins, and Matt Milano. 

 

McD wasn't happy with the way the Buffalo offense was headed, so he fired his first hire at OC in Rick Dennison. Side note, Bobby Babich was LBers' coach at that time. McD hired Brian Daboll as his next OC, and Brandon Beane came on board as GM right after that 2017 draft. For 2018, Beane traded up a few times to the #7 spot to draft QB Josh Allen. McD has made many changes to his coaching staff over the years, and he does like to promote within. 

 

Side note, the Cleveland Browns passed on Josh Allen not once but twice. The majority of this board was clamoring for Buffalo to give up the farm to trade up to the #2 spot with the NY Giants...to draft Josh Rosen! Yeah, that's right, as very few of the Bills fans wanted JA, as he was labeled too inaccurate. A noted poster on this site rated him as a third-round pick due to his inaccuracy. Cleveland, NYG, NYJ, Cleveland, Denver, and Indy all passed on Allen in that draft. Beane and McD knew who they wanted and went after him. The rest, as they say, is history. 

 

This current owner saw what he got after he hired his first HC in Rex Ryan ...which didn't go well for two seasons. The difference was and is night and day!

 

I can tell you guys right now, there is no way in hell this owner changes his head coach or GM for that matter. 

 

 

[Gregg]

The two best athletes in NY happen to play for my favorite teams the Bills and Yankees. I wonder which one gets a championship first Allen or Judge. Both seem to be held back by the coach/manger in McDermott-Boone. I hope both can win obviously but I have my doubts about either getting that championship.