How Good is Joe Brady?

[BillsShredder83]

9 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Nobody is saying Dorsey is better. But you will never get a read on what Brady actually is with Allen. 

I mean I don't think we can assume Brady would be successful if he leaves Buffalo, 50/50, maybe less. 

I dont think thats fair.  He put together a REALLLLY fun offense with rag-tag ass Carolina in 2021. 

 

With their typical dog*** OL along with Teddy B, Robbie Chosen, NO CMC, DJ Moore and Curtis Samuel.  Not the worst WR room ever, but certainly was not supposed to be a room with 3 guys over or a doghair under 1k yards.

 

Id just moved down here at that point and watched a ton of that team, nothing short of amazing what he did.  Coach Rhule firing him was the most spineless cowardice move Ive ever seen LOL

[Mikie2times]

Just now, VW82 said:

I'm still on the fence about Brady as a play caller but in terms of the direction we've moved our offense - run oriented, tough, multiple TE/HB alignments - for which I have to assume Brady has had significant input, he's been great for us there.  

 

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

I see your point, but I'll respectfully disagree.  Yes Brady has coached generational talent in college (Burrow) and the pro (Allen), but he scheme completely different offenses based on the talent in hand.  At LSU, Brady had Burrow, Chase and Jefferson.  He had Burrow throw the ball all over the place.   In Carolina, despite losing McCaffery and having Teddy Bridgewater as a QB, he successfully ran an offense through only 4 other offensive players (RB Davis, WRs Chosen, Moore and Samuel). No real TE impact.  In Buffalo, he has adjusted again to his personnel, with a deep RB and TE rooms and WR talent in the slot (Shakir and Moore).  

The Panthers were not good. Sub 20 ranking in everything. Perhaps that is talent. But then you have LSU, which is largely considered to be the most talented offense of all time. Literally, all time. Now he has what is likely to be the most physically gifted QB of all time. So two stops with absurd talent and success. One stop without absurd talent and no success. Given Dorsey and Daboll's performance post Allen, I think it's 50/50 as far as how he would do with a flat out average roster. 

 

With that said I think his structure and philosophy are good for us and exactly what Josh needed. He is not screwing this up like a Dorsey did. I don't think it's possible he is bad at what he does. I just don't know how good he is at what he does.   

3 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

I dont think thats fair.  He put together a REALLLLY fun offense with rag-tag ass Carolina in 2021. 

 

With their typical dog*** OL along with Teddy B, Robbie Chosen, NO CMC, DJ Moore and Curtis Samuel.  Not the worst WR room ever, but certainly was not supposed to be a room with 3 guys over or a doghair under 1k yards.

 

Id just moved down here at that point and watched a ton of that team, nothing short of amazing what he did.  Coach Rhule firing him was the most spineless cowardice move Ive ever seen LOL

I can only define success by results, not what you saw

[HappyDays]

It's really difficult to tell exactly how good he is. Allen single handedly erases a lot of stalled drives and the only other time Brady was an NFL OC he failed and got fired.

 

The best thing he has going for him is he knows what his players do well and he only asks them to do those things. Compared to Dorsey where for example he would ask Gabe Davis to read coverages and catch a lot of targets. As soon as Brady took over that kind of nonsense stopped.

 

His play design and play calling is simple, for better or worse. He calls a few select formations and only has like 3-4 concepts he calls out of each of those formations. He basically tells the opposing defense I think I can call these plays even when you know they're coming and I dare you to stop it. We've seen that strategy falter a bit when defenses sell out to stop specific plays, but it's hard to argue with the results. Any given week we can put up 30+ points while barely breaking a sweat. Yes we have Allen as the ultimate force multiplier but that's been true since 2020 and we've only seen the week to week consistency show up since Brady took over.

 

I don't think he's particularly creative and he can be a bit too conservative for my liking so I would say he both significantly raises our floor and slightly reduces our ceiling.

 

Edited 3 hours ago by HappyDays

[HOUSE]

There are worse coaches 

[Captain Hindsight]

He keeps all the juice in his office apparently 

[Mikie2times]

I think what's important to focus on here is his system is very good for Josh and if he leaves, what happens as far as his replacement will be one of the bigger hires McD has made. A Dorsey like mistake would be devastating at this point. I feel like as far as a system goes, this is our final version. We need to just keep iterating on this base system like the Patriots. No broad changes at this point. 

[BillsFan130]

Better than Babich that's for sure 

[GASabresIUFan]

Food for thought:

 

Since Brady took over as OC in 2003 the Bills are 23-5 with 19 games 30 pts or more including 5 games over 40 points.  We have averaged 30.5 pts per game over those 28 regular season games.

 

In 5 playoff games, the Bills have averaged 28.4 pts per game and are 3-2.  

 

The only true offensive clunker during his tenure was the Baltimore beatdown last season.  Baltimore's destruction of the defense that day took the Bills out of their O game plan as well and team didn't recover.  The Bills are 2-0 against Baltimore since scoring 68 points.

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFan said:

What do you mean by this?  Everyone eats is a cornerstone to GB's offense as well

Our scheme asks more of Josh Allen than the derivative Shanny scheme asks of Love

[FireChans]

36 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I think what's important to focus on here is his system is very good for Josh and if he leaves, what happens as far as his replacement will be one of the bigger hires McD has made. A Dorsey like mistake would be devastating at this point. I feel like as far as a system goes, this is our final version. We need to just keep iterating on this base system like the Patriots. No broad changes at this point. 

The only way to do that is to hire Brady’s underling and hope he can run the same thing as well.

 

Which is what happened to Dorsey when Daboll left. 
 

The Eagles lost their OC this offseason and their offense is a shell of itself with basically the exact same cast.

 

Brain drain is unfortunately real.

 

The irony is that Joe Brady is likely to get fired at his next stop because he doesn’t have Josh Allen, and our offense is likely going to go through growing pains again because we lose Joe Brady. 

[thenorthremembers]

2 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

As Dorsey showed, any coordinator can have success with Allen. It just takes basic competency. Brady is having strong success. I don't know if that is enough for me to say he's really good or not. I'm not sure everybody eats elsewhere.  

They were 5-5 when Dorsey got fired.  I wouldnt call that success.

[Jalan81]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

It's really difficult to tell exactly how good he is. Allen single handedly erases a lot of stalled drives and the only other time Brady was an NFL OC he failed and got fired.

 

The best thing he has going for him is he knows what his players do well and he only asks them to do those things. Compared to Dorsey where for example he would ask Gabe Davis to read coverages and catch a lot of targets. As soon as Brady took over that kind of nonsense stopped.

 

His play design and play calling is simple, for better or worse. He calls a few select formations and only has like 3-4 concepts he calls out of each of those formations. He basically tells the opposing defense I think I can call these plays even when you know they're coming and I dare you to stop it. We've seen that strategy falter a bit when defenses sell out to stop specific plays, but it's hard to argue with the results. Any given week we can put up 30+ points while barely breaking a sweat. Yes we have Allen as the ultimate force multiplier but that's been true since 2020 and we've only seen the week to week consistency show up since Brady took over.

 

I don't think he's particularly creative and he can be a bit too conservative for my liking so I would say he both significantly raises our floor and slightly reduces our ceiling.

 

Exactly 👍

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

I'm really hoping that Brady can gameplan to get Hawes 1-2 targets a game against some of these lower grade teams!  I would LOVEEEEE to be able to put that on tape so that DC's cant start cheating up on him, and we can really keep them guessing.  I dont want it to just be a threat, would like to see them scheme some Play-action touches us up for the big fella.  Plus hes busting his arse, and would appreciate the touches

Lower grade teams eh ?

The big guys still hit just as hard.

 

 I want to see the 3 headed monster at RB again soon. and an honest deep bomb caught from Brady and Allen design

[Rubes]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

I actually would like to see a little more down field passing, but if teams stay in cover 2, Josh and Brady are content to run the ball, control the clock and wear out the opposing D front.

 

This is essentially what the Bills D is doing to other teams too, though, is that correct? It seems like the idea is to force teams into long drives with many short plays and multiple 3rd down conversions, hoping to force teams to punt, kick a FG, or turn the ball over. I guess other teams are doing that to us, too. Is the difference that we are so effective running the ball, not turning the ball over, and having a high red zone TD percentage?

 

2 hours ago, Low Positive said:

They tried in the last game. Here is what Josh saw when he threw the ball on his INT. 

 

That's 4 receivers out against 6 DBs. Coleman has separation but other than that, it's not a great percentage play. But then again, it was 3rd and long, wasn't it?

 

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

It's really difficult to tell exactly how good he is. Allen single handedly erases a lot of stalled drives and the only other time Brady was an NFL OC he failed and got fired.

 

The best thing he has going for him is he knows what his players do well and he only asks them to do those things. Compared to Dorsey where for example he would ask Gabe Davis to read coverages and catch a lot of targets. As soon as Brady took over that kind of nonsense stopped.

 

His play design and play calling is simple, for better or worse. He calls a few select formations and only has like 3-4 concepts he calls out of each of those formations. He basically tells the opposing defense I think I can call these plays even when you know they're coming and I dare you to stop it. We've seen that strategy falter a bit when defenses sell out to stop specific plays, but it's hard to argue with the results. Any given week we can put up 30+ points while barely breaking a sweat. Yes we have Allen as the ultimate force multiplier but that's been true since 2020 and we've only seen the week to week consistency show up since Brady took over.

 

I don't think he's particularly creative and he can be a bit too conservative for my liking so I would say he both significantly raises our floor and slightly reduces our ceiling.

 

as long as he lifts the floor enough

 Creative should wait till later in the season , or post season.

Keep it simple as long as possible on game day , but practice the cool stuff.

Have you considered how many options Josh has  pre snap ? They have given him the Keys for sure. It might be a factor

 Both are growing together and that is a healthy dynamic.

Dorsey was a case btw

Edited 1 hour ago by 3rdand12

[Rubes]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Food for thought:

 

Since Brady took over as OC in 2003 the Bills are 23-5 with 19 games 30 pts or more including 5 games over 40 points.  We have averaged 30.5 pts per game over those 28 regular season games.

 

In 5 playoff games, the Bills have averaged 28.4 pts per game and are 3-2.  

 

The only true offensive clunker during his tenure was the Baltimore beatdown last season.  Baltimore's destruction of the defense that day took the Bills out of their O game plan as well and team didn't recover.  The Bills are 2-0 against Baltimore since scoring 68 points.

 

What about the Texans game?

 

[GASabresIUFan]

20 minutes ago, Rubes said:

This is essentially what the Bills D is doing to other teams too, though, is that correct? It seems like the idea is to force teams into long drives with many short plays and multiple 3rd down conversions, hoping to force teams to punt, kick a FG, or turn the ball over. I guess other teams are doing that to us, too. Is the difference that we are so effective running the ball, not turning the ball over, and having a high red zone TD percentage?

I think the difference is balance, but also the Bills are less likely to get “behind the stick;” meaning our proficient running game and short passing game tends to keep us out of 3rd and long.  As shown in the video, it’s hard to stop a team gaining 7 yards+ consistently on 1st down.
 

Not to get to far off the thread, but the Bills defense has been good at getting teams behind the sticks, but lousy at stopping 3rd and long.  

[Mikie2times]

50 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

They were 5-5 when Dorsey got fired.  I wouldnt call that success.

Nor would I call looking at the final 10 games of his tenure by itself logical

Edited 36 minutes ago by Mikie2times

[GASabresIUFan]

30 minutes ago, Rubes said:

 

What about the Texans game?

 

Josh was 9/30 that game for only 130 yards.  The running game was fine with 150 yards and average 5.4 yards a carry.   We also had 4 scoring drives.  
 

I chalk that game up to Josh having a rare bad game.

[Lost]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

I don't think he's particularly creative and he can be a bit too conservative for my liking so I would say he both significantly raises our floor and slightly reduces our ceiling.

 

This is very well stated and sum up my feelings of him as well.