2018* QB Draft

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

that's what I'm saying

 

i am not going to simultaneously believe these two things-

 

1: a coaching staff could draft Peterman, watch him play, and plan on Allen sitting his rookie yr behind him 

2: these same people are responsible for developing Allen

 

my contention then as now is the circumstances here were about as ill suited for QB development as could possibly be, and Allen succeeded in spite of them

 

In Allen's rookie year in 2018 it is beyond a question of a doubt that they made a total mess of every element of the process. 

 

1. Lack of a proper vet in the room until mid-season;

2. Thinking Peterman was a legitimate bridge that Allen would gain anything learning behind (he couldn't even stay on the field more than a half);

3. An offensive talent collection that the GM himself at the end of the season admitted was "horrible". Including the worst offensive line in the league with Vlad Ducasse and Ryan Groy as a starters and wide receivers that were a rookie UDFA and a career journeyman in Deonte Thompson. 

[BillsFanForever19]

11 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

I don’t know if people understand how incredible Allen’s achievement of 5 consecutive 40+ TD seasons is. 

 

Oh, I understand. I just think you seem to be underestimating the importance of key things Hall of Fame voters require. Especially for the QB Position. And overestimating the importance of things like that. Add a Ring and (or at least) a long storied career to that, he's in. Just that alone? Nope. And if he did, it would be a long wait.

 

I don't know if you know this, but there is only a grand total of 25 QB's who have played in the NFL post AFL merger that have made the Hall of Fame. Of those just 25 QB's, practically all of them have a Super Bowl ring. If they don't, they've at least won a Conference Championship and appeared in a Super Bowl.

 

As I said, the number of QB's who have gotten a Gold Jacket who didn't at least play in a Super Bowl is just 2. And each of them played 15+ years in the league. On top of that, they were inducted 19 (Moon) and 32 (Fouts) years ago - when voters were more liberal.

 

Meaning the number of QB's who don't have a Conference Championship and didn't have a long career is ZERO. It's never happened before. To think that Josh would buck that totality stat bc he's Josh is a bit of a homer take. 

 

Again, I do think Josh will be a Hall of Fame player when it's all said and done (so long as something catastrophic doesn't happen). But that's not the conversation we're having. You're saying he's a sure fire Hall of Famer if he retired after this year. 

 

As much as he's done, it wouldn't overcome not having a Super Bowl Ring or so much as a Conference Championship AND having only an Andrew Luck length career. Truth be told, as much as I feel he's the best in the game today and wouldn't trade him for anyone, I think he's the 3rd most likely to get voted in if Allen, Mahomes, and Jackson were to all retire today - due to Mahomes rings and Jackson's larger accolades.

Edited September 27 by BillsFanForever19

[FireChans]

20 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Did somebody pee in your cornflakes or are you just one of those people who can never see the positive in anything, but especially in the Bills?  It's like the better the Bills play, the more negativity about the team you spew.  

I don’t think there’s much positive to say about the way the Bills “developed” Josh outside of “it worked.”

 

They basically stepped on rake after rake and got lucky that Josh became a superstar. 
 

That’s a really good thing because it ushered in the best and most exciting era in franchise history.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

I don’t think there’s much positive to say about the way the Bills “developed” Josh outside of “it worked.”

 

They basically stepped on rake after rake and got lucky that Josh became a superstar. 
 

That’s a really good thing because it ushered in the best and most exciting era in franchise history.

 

I think to be fair to them they fixed things up pretty well in 2019. They admitted how bad they screwed up 2018 and they invested in protection and a couple of credible pass catchers and a proper QB coach and had a vet in the room. 

 

But 2018 was mistake after mistake, they got away with it.

[SectionC3]

21 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Would it?  I dunno. There are Quarterbacks who learn from the bench, no question. But I think the one element of the Bills development of Josh where they (organisationally) deserve some element of the credit beyond just Josh being incredibly talented and incredibly driven to improve and succeed is that they exposed him to things. They were willing to keep calling pass plays and exposing Josh to different rushes and different coverages and the sort of high level opposing defensive scheming he just hadn't been exposed to in the Mountain West even at times when nothing was working. They never went to, right let's just run the ball and get out of dodge here. They prioritised giving Josh the opportunities to get better and he absolutely maximised them. 

 

I actually think not only was their original plan wrong because Peterman predictably sucked, I am not sure their original plan was the right plan for Josh Allen. If he'd sat in 2018 my strong suspicion is 2019 might have looked a fair bit like 2018 for Allen (possibly a little better but still up and down), and 2020 might have looked a fair bit like the first step forward that 2019 did. Then they'd have been going into 2021 (year four) not really knowing whether he was definitely the guy. In a sense they got slightly lucky that their original plan worked out so poorly they had to abandon it so quickly. 

 

 

And, perversely, the injury might have been good for them too.  Allen got to play a bit, sit back without being benched, and then made some significant strides when he returned to the field (with Derek Anderson and Matt Barkley around). 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

18 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

In Allen's rookie year in 2018 it is beyond a question of a doubt that they made a total mess of every element of the process. 

 

1. Lack of a proper vet in the room until mid-season;

2. Thinking Peterman was a legitimate bridge that Allen would gain anything learning behind (he couldn't even stay on the field more than a half);

3. An offensive talent collection that the GM himself at the end of the season admitted was "horrible". Including the worst offensive line in the league with Vlad Ducasse and Ryan Groy as a starters and wide receivers that were a rookie UDFA and a career journeyman in Deonte Thompson. 

Yeah, I think the biggest myth is that Allen came into the perfect situation here. I think his rookie year was a mess, but Beane really made up for it in Allen’s 2nd year by getting him a cast of proven receivers like Cole Beasley and Smoke Brown. 

[Sojourner]

2 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Yeah, I think the biggest myth is that Allen came into the perfect situation here. I think his rookie year was a mess, but Beane really made up for it in Allen’s 2nd year by getting him a cast of proven receivers like Cole Beasley and Smoke Brown. 

The front office don’t get enough credit for that 2019 season to facilitate Allen’s growth. 
 

Cole Beasley and Brown were important but the offensive line upgrades in Mitch Morse, Quentin Spain and Jon Feliciano played a huge part imo. 
 

Throw in Singletary, who wasn’t that bad a player, and you can see why Josh made significant improvements. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

1 hour ago, Sojourner said:

The front office don’t get enough credit for that 2019 season to facilitate Allen’s growth. 
 

Cole Beasley and Brown were important but the offensive line upgrades in Mitch Morse, Quentin Spain and Jon Feliciano played a huge part imo. 
 

Throw in Singletary, who wasn’t that bad a player, and you can see why Josh made significant improvements. 

Charles Clay, Kelvin Benjamin, Deonte Thompson, Robert Foster is as putrid as any receiving cast I think I’ve ever seen. Kaelin Clay ?? Just looked at the roster and I don’t even remember this guy. 
 

Their one saving grace was they were somewhat effective running the ball, but Lesean McCoy was on his last leg. 

[Walking Tall]

18 doesn’t even have a Super Bowl representative. 83 is better and it isn’t even close.

[GunnerBill]

52 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Charles Clay, Kelvin Benjamin, Deonte Thompson, Robert Foster is as putrid as any receiving cast I think I’ve ever seen. Kaelin Clay ?? Just looked at the roster and I don’t even remember this guy. 
 

Their one saving grace was they were somewhat effective running the ball, but Lesean McCoy was on his last leg. 

 

He is talking about 2019. There is no disgareement from anyone (including Brandon Beane btw) that what they gave Allen around him in 2018 was putrid. 

[Alphadawg7]

22 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

In Allen's rookie year in 2018 it is beyond a question of a doubt that they made a total mess of every element of the process. 

 

1. Lack of a proper vet in the room until mid-season;

2. Thinking Peterman was a legitimate bridge that Allen would gain anything learning behind (he couldn't even stay on the field more than a half);

3. An offensive talent collection that the GM himself at the end of the season admitted was "horrible". Including the worst offensive line in the league with Vlad Ducasse and Ryan Groy as a starters and wide receivers that were a rookie UDFA and a career journeyman in Deonte Thompson. 

Going into the 3rd preseason game, Allen was set to start week 1, not Peterman.  It’s been publicly stated and confirmed many times.  But the OL performance was so bad in that game with Allen showing poorly in handling it that they changed their minds and decided to start NP week 1 to give Allen a couple more weeks to get ready for the bad OL and also in hopes the OL would improve as they got more games played.  This is also why Allen was put in so quickly after NP was atrocious for just one half of football. 
 

The intent was never for NP to start or be the bridge QB, that was an adapted plan after the OL and Allen’s inexperience showing in dealing with how bad the OL played in what was supposed to be the dress rehearsal game.

 

It’s a common misconception that they planned on NP starting the season, which wasn’t the case.  And that’s not speculation, it’s been stated by just about everyone from the player, coaches and FO.  
 

NP was here to be developed as a backup at that point, he wasn’t intended to be a season long bridge to Allen.

[LEBills]

46 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Going into the 3rd preseason game, Allen was set to start week 1, not Peterman.  It’s been publicly stated and confirmed many times.  But the OL performance was so bad in that game with Allen showing poorly in handling it that they changed their minds and decided to start NP week 1 to give Allen a couple more weeks to get ready for the bad OL and also in hopes the OL would improve as they got more games played.  This is also why Allen was put in so quickly after NP was atrocious for just one half of football. 
 

The intent was never for NP to start or be the bridge QB, that was an adapted plan after the OL and Allen’s inexperience showing in dealing with how bad the OL played in what was supposed to be the dress rehearsal game.

 

It’s a common misconception that they planned on NP starting the season, which wasn’t the case.  And that’s not speculation, it’s been stated by just about everyone from the player, coaches and FO.  
 

NP was here to be developed as a backup at that point, he wasn’t intended to be a season long bridge to Allen.

Interesting I hadn’t heard that if you have any of these quotes. Still bad process to have a backup 2nd year player as the only other QB with a raw rookie QB that needs to learn how to prepare each week to be a good QB.

 

The only other team I can think of with a QB room similar to this was 2012 Washington with RG3 and Kirk Cousins.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, LEBills said:

Interesting I hadn’t heard that if you have any of these quotes. Still bad process to have a backup 2nd year player as the only other QB with a raw rookie QB that needs to learn how to prepare each week to be a good QB.

 

The only other team I can think of with a QB room similar to this was 2012 Washington with RG3 and Kirk Cousins.

 

It was talked about during that season where the intent was to start him but after he took 5 sacks and got forced out of the game at end of 1st half for concussion evaluations.  After the game, they felt it was dangerous to put him out there between how bad the OL was looking and Allen holding the ball too long resulting in too many hits and sacks.  So they decided to try and hold off putting him out there right away, but NP was never intended to be the season long starter and was never named the season long starter, just that he woud start week 1 in more of an ongoing evaluation of the QB position.  

 

The QB room that year actually started with AJ as the "vet", Allen as the future, and NP as the guy really more competing to be a backup.  The hope was Allen would be ready early, but if not, the guy to buy some time was supposed to be AJ, but not only did he stink, he got hurt, so that left Allen as the guy they planned to start until he got smashed for an entire half with 5 sacks and the concussion scare.  So after NP had a solid 2nd half, they decided it was safer to start NP week 1 and give them more time with Allen to get him ready.  And by halftime week 1, NP was so bad they just decided to give Allen another look that 2nd half and after watching the tape they decided Allen was ready enough.  

 

 

Edited September 27 by Alphadawg7

[Albany,n.y.]

On 9/26/2025 at 9:16 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

Would it?  I dunno. There are Quarterbacks who learn from the bench, no question. But I think the one element of the Bills development of Josh where they (organisationally) deserve some element of the credit beyond just Josh being incredibly talented and incredibly driven to improve and succeed is that they exposed him to things. They were willing to keep calling pass plays and exposing Josh to different rushes and different coverages and the sort of high level opposing defensive scheming he just hadn't been exposed to in the Mountain West even at times when nothing was working. They never went to, right let's just run the ball and get out of dodge here. They prioritised giving Josh the opportunities to get better and he absolutely maximised them. 

 

I actually think not only was their original plan wrong because Peterman predictably sucked, I am not sure their original plan was the right plan for Josh Allen. If he'd sat in 2018 my strong suspicion is 2019 might have looked a fair bit like 2018 for Allen (possibly a little better but still up and down), and 2020 might have looked a fair bit like the first step forward that 2019 did. Then they'd have been going into 2021 (year four) not really knowing whether he was definitely the guy. In a sense they got slightly lucky that their original plan worked out so poorly they had to abandon it so quickly. 

 

 

I believe the original plan was for AJ McCarron to start for the 1st few games to half a season & then put Josh in, but McCarron wasn't very good, got hurt & then when the Bills planned to start Peterman after he had played better than McCarron in camp & preseason, McCarron wanted out & got traded to the Raiders. 

 

Personally, I wanted Josh to start day 1 & was disappointed he didn't.  He had a terrible O-line & WRs, but he learned a lot & by the Miami game at the end of the season his career was on an upward trajectory.   The only glitch was a mid season injury that kept him out a month.  

 

Nobody will ever convince me that starting a rookie QB ruins him.  There are so many success stories from QBs who were thrown in early & no matter how bad they struggled in the beginning, they learned so much their rookie years by playing, that they went on to have great careers.  Sometimes, you even get a rookie who lights it up from day 1 & never looks back.