Dalton Kincaid.......seems to be taking that "step up" that we have all been wanting to see.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, Bruffalo said:

That didn't take long, lol. 

 

It's overblown in my opinion, but ok. We aren't gonna agree.  

We just have so many Keon truthers here that jump in to defend him. His efficiency numbers rank him as the lowest of the Bills pass catchers. He is below the league average while playing with Josh Allen. That’s tough to do.
 

He was the first pick in the 2nd round. He was supposed to be “the guy.” He may not be a top 2 or 3 WR within, arguably, the worst WR room in the NFL. That’s not who he was brought here to be. It’s okay to call it what it is. He has been a disappointment.

[Jauronimo]

45 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

Browns and Jags are on another level.

[Thurman#1]

15 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Average passer rating when targeted & below average yards per route run, is not good when Josh Allen is the QB. When you move it to 15 targets he comes in behind Palmer too. He’s the lowest of all qualifying Bills pass catchers. We don’t need to continue to defend him. He has not been good. He’s below average with the game’s best player as his QB. 

 

 

Well above Brian Thomas Jr. isn't he? And Ladd McConkey? Two guys picked well above him in the same draft that many here wanted. How come the outrage is only for Keon? Not calling you out specifically on that, Kirby. But usually those two are mentioned whenever we start to hear about Keon, but now, crickets.

 

In any case, yards per route run is likely to be lower when you're in an everybody eats offense and you get a bunch of snaps, right?

 

We don't need to continue to attack him. Guy is a second year man. He's been solid, with the game's best player as his QB in an everybody eats offense.

 

Yards per route run will not make players in an everybody eats offense look good, with the exception of guys who are getting less snaps, as Kincaid is, 49% as opposed to Keon, who is well above 70%.

 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by Thurman#1

[loyal2dagame]

Is like to see him put back to back 6 to 9 catch 100yrd games to be convinced he's taken that step. He's thisclose.

[Ray Stonada]

Kincaid looking great, Hawes looking good too. Knox, with the drops and the fumble and the big salary, is looking less necessary. 

Now if we had a great downfield receiver we could be unstoppable, like 1991 Bills level or Chiefs with prime Kelce and Tyreek.

[LABILLBACKER]

13 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

We just have so many Keon truthers here that jump in to defend him. His efficiency numbers rank him as the lowest of the Bills pass catchers. He is below the league average while playing with Josh Allen. That’s tough to do.
 

He was the first pick in the 2nd round. He was supposed to be “the guy.” He may not be a top 2 or 3 WR within, arguably, the worst WR room in the NFL. That’s not who he was brought here to be. It’s okay to call it what it is. He has been a disappointment.

So far the results of that gauntlet drill are highly overrated. Dalton's obvious improvement this season has been extremely encouraging.  Keon on the other hand is an enigma?

[gobills404]

1 hour ago, Ray Stonada said:

Kincaid looking great, Hawes looking good too. Knox, with the drops and the fumble and the big salary, is looking less necessary. 

Now if we had a great downfield receiver we could be unstoppable, like 1991 Bills level or Chiefs with prime Kelce and Tyreek.

Knox has been amazing as a blocker this year, but I agree he’s still overpaid.

[Kirby Jackson]

5 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Well above Brian Thomas Jr. isn't he? And Ladd McConkey?

 

And yards per route run is likely to be lower when you're in an everybody eats offense and you get a bunch of snaps, right?

 

We don't need to continue to attack him. Guy is a second year man. He's been solid, with the game's best player as his QB in an everybody eats offense.

 

Yards per route run will not make players in an everybody eats offense look good, with the exception of guys who are getting less snaps, as Kincaid is, 49% as opposed to Keon, who is well above 70%.

 

 

 

 

They aren’t on the Bills so not really a concern to me. Both had Pro Bowl years as rookies and are struggling this year (especially Thomas). 
 

Lol, no one is piling on. It’s just calling it what it is. You’re jumping in as one of the Keon Truthers that I described. I’m not sure what there is to be disagreeing with? You responded to a post where I saw, “he has not been good.” I probably should have used the word “disappointment” which is what I think I said in the Keon thread (where this conversation belongs). I did not mean to derail this thread giving props to Kincaid. Do you agree that Keon has failed to meet expectations to this point? If you agree with that, you are, by definition, agreeing that he has been a disappointment. 

Edited 8 hours ago by Kirby Jackson

[Kirby Jackson]

5 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

So far the results of that gauntlet drill are highly overrated. Dalton's obvious improvement this season has been extremely encouraging.  Keon on the other hand is an enigma?

I don’t put too much stock into anything at the combine. It’s nice to confirm what you think you see on tape but guys are so rehearsed now for every drill it’s almost like they can manipulate the results. That’s not a Keon thing. That is every guy participating in every drill. 
 

He is a bit of an enigma. His game has clear holes that aren’t easy to overcome. Kincaid’s weaknesses when he entered the draft were size and strength. He wasn’t a good blocker because of it. As a pass catcher he was a very safe option. He had good athleticism, hands, route running, contested catch ability and YAC skills. Basically, to improve he needed to grow and be more physical.
 

That’s much easier to do than to say, “accelerate quicker,” and “get quicker feet to run sharper routes and create more separation.” That’s some of what Keon is up against. Everyone comes out with areas for improvement. Some guys have simple areas to improve like Kincaid while others have flaws that guys do not often overcome like Keon or Josh. Fortunately, Josh beat the odds of overcoming his flaws. Keon looks like the exact same guy that he was in college, a bit of an enigma lol.

Edited 4 hours ago by Kirby Jackson

[Thurman#1]

18 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

They aren’t on the Bills so not really a concern to me. Both had Pro Bowl years as rookies and are struggling this year (especially Thomas). 
 

Lol, no one is piling on. It’s just calling it what it is. You’re jumping in as one of the Keon Truthers that I described. I’m not sure what there is to be disagreeing with? You responded to a post where I saw, “he has not been good.” I probably should have used the word “disappointment” which is what I think I said in the Keon thread (where this conversation belongs). I did not mean to derail this thread giving props to Kincaid. Do you agree that Keon has failed to meet expectations to this point? If you agree with that, you are, by definition, agreeing that he has been a disappointment. 

 

 

Well, if I'm a Keon Truther, what are you? A Keon liar? I wouldn't have used that word if it weren't the opposite of what you used. I don't think of you as a liar, so you know, but I don't appreciate what you called me either.

 

So, if I went back on your posts about Keon, none would mention Thomas or McConkey? If so, you're a bit unusual for folks with your point of view.

 

Do I agree he has failed to meet expect expectations? Not particularly. I think having expectations this early is fairly unreasonable. Has he met my hopes? No. But he was injured last year, and still had a pretty solid year for a rookie. And we're only on week five of his second year. By the end of the year he might easily be having a great year. Or not.

 

Too small a sample. No, he has neither met nor disappointed expectations yet. Too early to know, reasonably, so early in his second year while they work out what they are on offense after spending most of his rookie year unable to squeeze with one hand.

[Thurman#1]

30 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t put too much stock into anything at the combine. It’s nice to confirm what you think you see on tape but guys are so rehearsed now for every drill it’s almost like they can manipulate the results. That’s not a Keon thing. That is every guy participating in every drill. 
 

He is a bit of an enigma. His game has clear holes that aren’t easy to overcome. Kincaid’s weaknesses when he entered the draft were size and strength. He wasn’t a good blocker because of it. As a pass catcher he was a very safe option. He had good athleticism, hands, route running, contested catch ability and YAC skills. Basically, to improve he needed to grow and be more physical.
 

That’s much easier to do than to see, “accelerate quicker,” and “get quicker feet to run sharper routes and create more separation.” That’s some of what Keon is up against. Everyone comes out with areas for improvement. Some guys have simple areas to improve like Kincaid while others have flaws that guys do not often overcome like Keon or Josh. Fortunately, Josh beat the odds of overcoming his flaws. Keon looks like the exact same guy that he was in college, a bit of an enigma lol.

 

 

While I agree with much of this, there certainly are other ways to run better routes than to "get quicker feet to run sharper routes." You can adjust mechanics, you can adjust timing on cuts, you can learn to gently and imperceptibly push off or do a better job of boxing out ... there are a ton of ways to get better at this. It's not clear what will happen.

 

Certainly it's correct that he might pretty much stay the same guy. Or stay the same guy in terms of separation but win more contested catches as he seemed to do in camp. Or get better at separation. We'll have to see. You're right that some guys improve a ton, and some guys just don't.

 

 

1 hour ago, gobills404 said:

Knox has been amazing as a blocker this year, but I agree he’s still overpaid.

 

 

Yeah, I'd certainly agree, but an extension could be worked out so as to make things easier to swallow for the Bills. 

 

I'm sure Knox is aware that many think he is overpaid. I'm hopeful they can find a way to come together. I like how he's looked this year and I like how the multiple TE offenses have looked as well. I'm hoping we start to see even more variations and tendency breakers come out of those formations, as well as just the effects of the extra beef.

 

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Thurman#1

[HOUSE]

Kincaid is either stepping up or the rest of the team is stepping down. 

You pick..

[Kirby Jackson]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Well, if I'm a Keon Truther, what are you? A Keon liar? I wouldn't have used that word if it weren't the opposite of what you used. I don't think of you as a liar, so you know, but I don't appreciate what you called me either.

 

So, if I went back on your posts about Keon, none would mention Thomas or McConkey? If so, you're a bit unusual for folks with your point of view.

 

Do I agree he has failed to meet expect expectations? Not particularly. I think having expectations this early is fairly unreasonable. Has he met my hopes? No. But he was injured last year, and still had a pretty solid year for a rookie. And we're only on week five of his second year. By the end of the year he might easily be having a great year. Or not.

 

Too small a sample. No, he has neither met nor disappointed expectations yet. Too early to know, reasonably, so early in his second year while they work out what they are on offense after spending most of his rookie year unable to squeeze with one hand.

McConkey had an 1149 yard season and Thomas had a 1282 yard season. They’ve been bad this year so far but they have PROVEN that they can be the focal point of an offense. The Bills would trade Keon for either in 1 second. I absolutely believe that they would have been better picks. Lol, that’s not a controversial take.  
 

If you think that the Bills, in need of a guy at the top of the depth chart, expected him to be a rotational piece with Josh Palmer and Curtis Samuel, I have a bridge for sale. They wanted “the” guy and got “a” guy. Maybe he improves. There is nothing that the Bills need more at this point than for him to get better (besides better play in the secondary). No one is saying he has no chance to improve. With that being said, as of today, he’s a disappointment. This is not the level of play that the Bills had hoped for when they took him at 33.

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Well above Brian Thomas Jr. isn't he? And Ladd McConkey? Two guys picked well above him in the same draft that many here wanted. How come the outrage is only for Keon? Not calling you out specifically on that, Kirby. But usually those two are mentioned whenever we start to hear about Keon, but now, crickets.

 

In any case, yards per route run is likely to be lower when you're in an everybody eats offense and you get a bunch of snaps, right?

 

We don't need to continue to attack him. Guy is a second year man. He's been solid, with the game's best player as his QB in an everybody eats offense.

 

Yards per route run will not make players in an everybody eats offense look good, with the exception of guys who are getting less snaps, as Kincaid is, 49% as opposed to Keon, who is well above 70%.

 

 

 

In what way would you describe him as being "solid"?

[MikePJ76]

This place and most of the Buffalo media slandered him 24/7 and wanted him replaced declaring him a wasted pick and just as bad as Elam.

 

 

[Don Otreply]

I think I saw a cover 1 thing say that the offense should be run through Kincaid, likely not a bad idea, defenses will key on him more opening up our other pass options more and make the run game all the better,