THE ROCKPILE REVIEW – I Never Leave Early

[BearNorth]

6 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

You had me until game ball for McDermott.  If he would have just kicked the xp's, the Bills would have won the game outright.  Down 9, he went for 2 and failed, making it a two-score game.  Kick the XP there and get to one score.  The Bills won despite McDermott, not because of him.

I thought so as well, but that last drive before the Prater FG burned all the clock and kept the Ravens from being able to do 13 seconds or homerun throwback.  The bigger issue for Baltimore was their kicker doinking the last extra point. He makes that and we need the Prater FG to force OT.

[pennstate10]

On 9/9/2025 at 4:32 PM, KCNC said:

That's cool and everything.  But the Bills don't exactly have a great record of successful 2 point attempts.  At least as far as my old brain can remember.

Im with KC. This version of the Bills doesn’t have a great record on 2 pt conversions. Don’t chase the points until you have to. 

[Shaw66]

I think this discussion about whether to go for two is classic. I think people like to solve these problems in their heads; I know I do. But the reality is that someone has solved these problems statistically, and they know which strategies have the greatest likelihood of success.  They are statistical facts. So, "if the Bills had just kicked the extra point those three times, they would have had the three points they needed to win the game" may sound nice to us, but as a statistical matter, the Bills would have been less likely to win the game doing that. Now, in this instance it turned out to be true, but in most instances it would not have. Same with "Well, if you've already kicked the extra point, don't take points off the board." Sounds nice, but the stats say you're less likely to win if you take that point. 

 

Google it. I did. The analytics says if you're down 15 with three minutes or less, kick the extra point. If you're down 15 with more than three minutes, go for two. Twice the Bills were down 15, and they went for 2 twice, just what the analytics say.  Then they were down 8, so going for two is a no-brainer.  McDermott did it right. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 9/10/2025 at 1:43 AM, Buffalo ill said:

I am glad I live in the pacific time zone.  When I was stationed in Georgia it always tripped me out how late the games were on sunday/Monday.  Just used to living out west.

 

I assume the folks doing the most shaming are children, retired, or have white collar jobs that don't start until after 9am (thats like sleeping in for people who actually make society run).

You realize not all White Collar jobs are CEOs and Lawyers, right? This also includes doctors, nurses, and software engineers who developed the very thing you’re using to make this ignorant post. 

[Shaw66]

5 hours ago, pennstate10 said:

Im with KC. This version of the Bills doesn’t have a great record on 2 pt conversions. Don’t chase the points until you have to. 

As Thurman#1 pointed out, the Bills have been top 10 in two-point conversions for the past three seasons. 

 

Tied for 9th in '24 with 50%.

 

Tied for 10th in '23 with 75%.

 

Tied for 9th in '22 with 66.66%

 

So, if the Bills have been successful doing it, and if the analytics say go for it, what exactly is the reason for not going for it?

[LABILLBACKER]

6 hours ago, pennstate10 said:

Im with KC. This version of the Bills doesn’t have a great record on 2 pt conversions. Don’t chase the points until you have to. 

Thank you....stop chasing points....stop calling for 2pt conversions when they're absolutely not necessary. We're not even good at them right now. Prater is a solid veteran.  Let him do his job.  Brady needs to be more creative on these conversions. 

Edited September 12 by LABILLBACKER

[Shaw66]

8 hours ago, pennstate10 said:

Im with KC. This version of the Bills doesn’t have a great record on 2 pt conversions. Don’t chase the points until you have to. 

I'll say it again: Look at Thurman's post. Bills have been top ten in two-point conversions for three straight seasons.

[Pete]

18 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

As Thurman#1 pointed out, the Bills have been top 10 in two-point conversions for the past three seasons. 

 

Tied for 9th in '24 with 50%.

 

Tied for 10th in '23 with 75%.

 

Tied for 9th in '22 with 66.66%

 

So, if the Bills have been successful doing it, and if the analytics say go for it, what exactly is the reason for not going for it?

Josh Allen is a Cheat Code.  Add that to a top offensive line, Keon can jump out of the stadium, Shakir is elusive, Samuel fast, Knox makes big catches, Kincaid is a mismatch, 3 good RBs, all who can run routes and have great hands.  Now Joe Brady, if you cannot make two yards, with all of those weapons, and the Cheat Code- I blame you Joe Brady.  He who kills momentum, and reverts to 1950s football, and runs 2 running plays on 2nd and 1.  He only play faked 11% of the time.  I am beginning to think Joe Brady is holding back the offense.  Im not impressed

Edited September 13 by Pete

[machine gun kelly]

On 9/9/2025 at 4:32 PM, KCNC said:

That's cool and everything.  But the Bills don't exactly have a great record of successful 2 point attempts.  At least as far as my old brain can remember.

Actually bud, in the last couple of years McD has one if the best records of 2pt. Conversions, and 4th down conversions in the league.  Would you rather have Tomlin and punt all the time.  He's not perfect, but the play has a low priority of success so it depends on what McD does vs. the avg. and the expected.

[pennstate10]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I'll say it again: Look at Thurman's post. Bills have been top ten in two-point conversions for three straight seasons.

I don’t know. 
 

This dude named McDermott says Bills haven’t been real good at 2 pt conversions as of late. 
 

https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/onsi/week-2-josh-allen-sean-mcdermott-focus-on-fixing-bills-two-point-problem

[Sierra Foothills]

15 hours ago, blitzboy54 said:

One thing nobody is talking about is the NFL rule on TD's/and 2 point conversions is if you are forced out of bounds and re establish both feet in bounds the play counts. I don't understand how everyone just sort of said yup when he was clearly forced out and made every effort to get back in. He met all the criteria for a catch then everyone just moved on. We spent the rest of the game chasing those points.

 

I agree that was McD's best clock management performance to date. I hope that is the new standard because it was smart and if handled any other way we would not have won. 

 

15 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

He clearly had both feet in bounds. I don't have the replay up, but when I watched I thought it was clear that he was forced out.  Right?  He did take a few steps out of bounds; did it look like he didn't get back on the field fast enough?

 

And one more thing about that. I really think the NFL has to change the rules about automatic reviews. Scoring plays are automatic, but plays that would have been scoring plays but weren't because of a ref's ruling are not.  So, McD would have to challenge that call, if it's reviewable at all. The lost timeout would have been really costly. 

 

I believe you guys aren't familiar with the rule.

 

The call according to Referee John Hussey was "illegal touching" (of a forward pass).

 

Article 8. Illegal Touching Of A Forward Pass:

It is a foul for illegal touching if a forward pass (legal or illegal) thrown from behind the line of scrimmage:is first touched intentionally or is caught by an originally ineligible offensive player. If such a pass is caught, it is a live ball; (Penalty: Loss of five yards at the previous spot).

or

It is a foul for illegal touching if a forward pass (legal or illegal) first touches or is caught by an eligible offensive receiver who has gone out of bounds, either of his own volition or by being legally forced out of bounds and has reestablished himself inbounds. If such a pass is caught, it is a live ball.

(Penalty: Loss of down at the previous spot).

 

To me this invalidates 2 points that are the basis for arguing that it was an error in officiating:

• That he was forced out of bounds by the defender... it doesn't matter.
• That he re-established himself inbounds. Again it doesn't matter... according to the letter of the law, he cannot be the first person to touch the ball when he gets back inbounds.

 

[Richard Noggin]

There was no question among our immediate section that we needed a turnover to truly have a chance. Behold: Ed Oliver forcing the fumble from Derrick Henry. Just mugging him in the backfield, really. Stealing his lunch money. Felt live like they might have failed to recover the fumble, tbh, but that was the moment that we KNEW this was mathematically in motion. 

[Billy Claude]

4 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

 

I believe you guys aren't familiar with the rule.

 

The call according to Referee John Hussey was "illegal touching" (of a forward pass).

 

Article 8. Illegal Touching Of A Forward Pass:

It is a foul for illegal touching if a forward pass (legal or illegal) thrown from behind the line of scrimmage:is first touched intentionally or is caught by an originally ineligible offensive player. If such a pass is caught, it is a live ball; (Penalty: Loss of five yards at the previous spot).

or

It is a foul for illegal touching if a forward pass (legal or illegal) first touches or is caught by an eligible offensive receiver who has gone out of bounds, either of his own volition or by being legally forced out of bounds and has reestablished himself inbounds. If such a pass is caught, it is a live ball.

(Penalty: Loss of down at the previous spot).

 

To me this invalidates 2 points that are the basis for arguing that it was an error in officiating:

• That he was forced out of bounds by the defender... it doesn't matter.
• That he re-established himself inbounds. Again it doesn't matter... according to the letter of the law, he cannot be the first person to touch the ball when he gets back inbounds.

 

 

 

Obvious newbie.  Trying to include facts in an internet dicussions instead of just emotions and opinions.  You'll never win an argument that way!

 

 

[Shaw66]

8 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

 

I believe you guys aren't familiar with the rule.

 

The call according to Referee John Hussey was "illegal touching" (of a forward pass).

 

Article 8. Illegal Touching Of A Forward Pass:

It is a foul for illegal touching if a forward pass (legal or illegal) thrown from behind the line of scrimmage:is first touched intentionally or is caught by an originally ineligible offensive player. If such a pass is caught, it is a live ball; (Penalty: Loss of five yards at the previous spot).

or

It is a foul for illegal touching if a forward pass (legal or illegal) first touches or is caught by an eligible offensive receiver who has gone out of bounds, either of his own volition or by being legally forced out of bounds and has reestablished himself inbounds. If such a pass is caught, it is a live ball.

(Penalty: Loss of down at the previous spot).

 

To me this invalidates 2 points that are the basis for arguing that it was an error in officiating:

• That he was forced out of bounds by the defender... it doesn't matter.
• That he re-established himself inbounds. Again it doesn't matter... according to the letter of the law, he cannot be the first person to touch the ball when he gets back inbounds.

 

Thanks. I didn't know the rule.  Seems unfair to be ineligible if you were pushed out. Should be able to re-establish eligibility.

 

DB can still make first touch if he has been pushed out. 

Edited September 13 by Shaw66

[Sierra Foothills]

13 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Thanks. I didn't know the rule.  Seems unfair to be ineligible if you were pushed out. Should be able to re-establish eligibility.

 

DB can still make first touch if he has been pushed out. 

 

Agreed but conversely an eligible offensive player shouldn't put himself in that position.

 

It's perhaps a failure of coaching as well but Coleman played that rep as if he was unaware of the rule.

 

[Ayjent]

The ref did a poor job explaining the penalty on the first 2pt catch by Coleman. The question is whether it was illegal contact that should have been an offsetting foul.  The no catch was correct, the no call on illegal contact was probably wrong, but Baltimore got away with a lot of contact beyond 5 yds all game.  Maybe the Bills did too but i didnt see that make a difference on any given play. 

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Agreed but conversely an eligible offensive player shouldn't put himself in that position.

 

It's perhaps a failure of coaching as well but Coleman played that rep as if he was unaware of the rule.

 

I agree. There is a lot of Coleman's game that still looks like he's a rookie. I'm hopeful that his dedication and McDermott's leadership will help him continue to mature, both personally and as a player.

 

There were times during the game on Sunday where I thought," if this guy gets serious and develops his game, he will be one of the best receivers in the league."

 

He's not the same body type as Mike Evans, but I can see him being as valuable a weapon. He's learning ways to get open, and he has great but inconsistent hands. 

 

It's also quite clear that Allen already is looking to him. Allen is going to be pressuring him to get better and better, and I'm hopeful we are going to see some special things from him. 

 

But for now, he does some head scratching things. He certainly didn't look like he was paying much attention to where the back of the end zone was on that play.

[Sierra Foothills]

6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

It's also quite clear that Allen already is looking to him. Allen is going to be pressuring him to get better and better, and I'm hopeful we are going to see some special things from him. 

 

But for now, he does some head scratching things. He certainly didn't look like he was paying much attention to where the back of the end zone was on that play.

 

Yes. One of the biggest factors in my belief in Coleman continues to be (and I've posted this numerous times) what Josh texted to Keon BEFORE the draft:

 

"You're the guy I want."

 

To say that Josh is invested in seeing Keon succeed is probably an understatement.

 

[Ayjent]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree. There is a lot of Coleman's game that still looks like he's a rookie. I'm hopeful that his dedication and McDermott's leadership will help him continue to mature, both personally and as a player.

 

There were times during the game on Sunday where I thought," if this guy gets serious and develops his game, he will be one of the best receivers in the league."

 

He's not the same body type as Mike Evans, but I can see him being as valuable a weapon. He's learning ways to get open, and he has great but inconsistent hands. 

 

It's also quite clear that Allen already is looking to him. Allen is going to be pressuring him to get better and better, and I'm hopeful we are going to see some special things from him. 

 

But for now, he does some head scratching things. He certainly didn't look like he was paying much attention to where the back of the end zone was on that play.

He’s getting better, and I think he is an exceptional athlete that if he continues to be driven and develops being on the page with Josh could be an elite weapon that is unique in how he is used.  He will eventually get more calls as he learns to sell it better. 

[Kwai San]

On 9/9/2025 at 3:52 PM, Shaw66 said:

I never leave games early. Never. (Well, I left Chiefs-Bills at Arrowhead at halftime during the weather delay a few years ago, but that was only because my wimp friend insisted on it.)

 

I was disappointed that Bills fans started pouring out of the stadium in the fourth quarter after the Bills had fallen behind by the Ravens 40-25 on Sunday night, but different people have different points of view, and everyone’s entitled to theirs. The people who sit beside me at Highmark Stadium leave early most games. I don’t get it, but it makes sense to them, so okay.

 

I always want to see what’s going to happen. I want to see the kneeldowns, if that’s what’s coming. I want to see the desperation passes, the onside kicks. I want to see the players meeting on the field after the game. I attend for the entire experience, whatever it is, so I don’t leave early. I don’t leave movies early, no matter how bad, and I don’t leave the theater early, either.

 

Part of me says I owe it to the players to stay. They work incredibly hard to compete in these games, and they deserve an audience. (I know, they get paid to do it, whether I’m there or not. Still, when someone puts on a show for me, I’m going to watch it.)

 

Did I think about leaving the Ravens game?  No, not really, but I can say this: If I weren’t the kind of person who stays to the end, no matter how miserable the performance is, I would have been out the door after the magnificent Derrick Henry did his magic against the Bills again. My impression of the game to that point was that the Bills were fortunate to be only 15 points behind. Up to that, point the game felt like the score should have been 60-25. It seemed the Ravens were dominating.

 

In truth, statistically, the game was pretty even. It was two special quarterbacks running two good offenses, with two pretty good defenses trying to figure out how to survive. The Ravens had had the better of it, throwing haymaker after haymaker. It was exciting, explosive football. Still, it felt like the Bills were being smoked, and although the Bills might score 15 in the last 10 minutes, it didn’t seem likely that the Ravens were done scoring.

 

I knew, of course, that the Bills had a chance. Miracles happen all the time in the NFL. But to tell the truth, sometime in the third quarter I thought it was over. Every time I thought about the Bills mounting a comeback, I thought, “No, it’s over.” Why? Because the Bills just didn’t look very good. They couldn’t convert a two-point conversion. They couldn’t execute a quarterback sneak. They were close only because they got a gift touchdown on a desperation pass that was deflected and then caught by Keon Coleman, diving in the end zone. The Bills were close despite themselves.

 

I tried to talk myself into having some hope. I reminded myself that McDermott stocks his team with players who never quit. I reminded myself that he trains his players to win the second half, and especially to win the fourth quarter. I remined myself that we had 17. Nothing worked. I thought it was over.

 

When did I think they might actually win? Briefly after the touchdown got them to 40-38, but that hope disappeared almost immediately when they didn’t get the two point conversion to tie the game. I thought the chances the Ravens would go three and out were pretty slim. They’d punted only twice in the game.

 

When did I think the Bills might actually win? When the Ravens were 3rd and 9 and there was more than a minute and a half left on the clock. That was literally the first time the possibility of winning came into my head and stayed there. I’d spent the previous hour thinking the game was over.

 

Then Benford made the tackle on Hopkins, the Ravens’ punt bounced out of bounds, and I thought, “The Bills are going to win! THE BILLS ARE GOING TO WIN!”

 

The final drive was magnificent. Josh Allen was masterful. As the commentators always say, the first first down is critical. Josh took an easy six yards over the middle to open the series, and the Bills were rolling. Easy sideline throw to Coleman for the first down. A gorgeous throw to Palmer, perfect, and then back to Coleman, and the Bills were ready to kick the game-winner.

 

What was best moment in the game? The moments after it ended. People clapped and cheered and screamed, and they didn’t stop. The noise just kept coming and coming for three or four or five minutes, maybe ten minutes. Why did that happen? Because for the previous hour, we’d all been sitting there believing it was over, believing there was no hope. People weren’t even standing or singing along with the Shout song after scores. And then, after all of the agony, it was bang, bang, bang, field goal, game over. We couldn’t stop cheering.

 

Who gets game balls? Prater, of course, and Allen, of course, and Oliver, of course. Big Ed made us believe when he bear-hugged Henry for a big tackle-for-loss. And he showed the way to the win when he stripped Henry for the only takeaway in the game that mattered. (Josh’s INT on the conversion attempt wasn’t the kind of takeaway that can change a game.)

 

And a game ball for McDermott. Remember when fans used to complain about McDermott’s game management? Not Sunday night. He knew when to go for two and when to go for one. He managed the timeouts perfectly. His team used every second on the clock to get three points to end the first half, and they used every second on the clock to kick the game winner and deny the Ravens any chance of coming back. His philosophy of stopping the pass even if it means the Bills run defense is gashed proved, again, to be a winning strategy. And his never-say-die attitude carried the Bills to the win.

 

1-0.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

The Rockpile Review is written to share the passion we have for the Buffalo Bills. That passion was born in the Rockpile; its parents were everyday people of western New York who translated their dedication to a full day’s hard work and simple pleasures into love for a pro football team.

 

Shaw - every SINGLE time I read on of your recaps/post/comments I mentally hear this gravely John Forsythe type voice that carries me along each word.  You have an excellent talent at the prose you write and the emotion you put into it.

 

Well done sir!  I watched at home in So Flo, right up to the last second and the ensuing chaos after wards.....I then rewond it to 5 minutes left and rewatched the whole thing all over again!

 

PS.  I had seasons for 22 years.....I watched the comeback game altho I will admit I left at halftime to cook food in the lot waiting for our one diehard in our group to leave the game.  My best friend and co-worker came running through the lot, 8 month 26 day pregnant wife in tow, saw me and SCREAMED at me to get back in the game!!!!  My two buddies and I had already decided that we would go back in when the gates opened at the start of the 4th....we tried to tell my bestie that, but he was adamant that he go in right that second.  We cleaned up, listened to another score and then caught up with my buddy and his wife and waited for the gates to open.....they slid open a few minutes early and we sheepishly walked up to our seats receiving MUCH deserved grief from our fellow fans!!!

 

GO BILLS!!!