A few Random Thoughts After the Ravens Game

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

I compare this more to Rex's schemes in New York effectivity around 2009-10.  Those were more complicated to run, but needed the exact right players who had the smarts and physical ability.  

 

I think we're trending closer to that in Buffalo, except I don't see that McD's defensive scheme as so complex.  Still needs a certain kind of player, which he found in 2017 for the secondary.   

 

Huge win or not on Sunday night, we're still debating the philosophy the HC and GM operate under.  As in, whether a highly-resourced defense, particularly at DL combined with an offense featuring Josh, a very good OL, and an average-ish skilled talent group can win a SB.  Buffalo's 2025 will answer that question.  

 

McD's coverage schemes on the backend are more complex than anything Rex ran. Now Rex's D was more complex up front, that is fair. They are just different styles. 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No, I agree with you. It was the extension I liked the least in the offseason. I'd have had him play out his final year. He was really poor on Sunday.

 

I didn't like that extension either. But to be fair to Bernard, Baltimore is the worst matchup for his skillset. He is not built to take on 400 lb pulling guards. His pass coverage is where I need to see improvement from last year to make that extension worth it.

 

The more all-22 footage I've seen the more I blame (1) coaching because our players were not remotely prepared to play, and (2) Daquan Jones who is the only legit 1T on our roster and he couldn't shed a run block to save his life. We put Oliver at nose a few times and even he was more effective at that spot than DQ. We've built a small 2nd level which means we need the front to keep them clean... not give up wide open gaps with room for the RB and his pulling OL to escort him. The 2nd and 3rd level definitely misplayed a lot of their assignments but they were not put in favorable positions either. The way to beat Henry is make him hesitate just a bit in the backfield which requires penetration from the front. If he can just accelerate without breaking momentum that is a tough ask for almost any LB or safety.

[PoundingDog]

37 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Bishop should know better and adjust. Why blitz from where he was after the quick snap? He needed to adjust his assignment and drop into coverage. 

Well ... put yourself in his position. You practiced the play like the back of your hand throughout the week. You know your 1/11 responsibility on the play, all of sudden you said I shouldn't execute that because I can't do that like the plan, where should I go? If you were a vet like Hyde, you might recognize a hole in the coverage and just go there. Otherwise you don't just go to another player's zone to disrupt someone else's play. 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, ngbills said:

Bishop should know better and adjust. Why blitz from where he was after the quick snap? He needed to adjust his assignment and drop into coverage. 

 

Is that what he's coached to do? Are you sure? Could very well be theyve been told to run their assignments and do their 1/11th no matter what. Otherwise, you have some guys running 1 play, and others running another. Who knows? Someone should ask Babich.

[GunnerBill]

34 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I didn't like that extension either. But to be fair to Bernard, Baltimore is the worst matchup for his skillset. He is not built to take on 400 lb pulling guards. His pass coverage is where I need to see improvement from last year to make that extension worth it.

 

The more all-22 footage I've seen the more I blame (1) coaching because our players were not remotely prepared to play, and (2) Daquan Jones who is the only legit 1T on our roster and he couldn't shed a run block to save his life. We put Oliver at nose a few times and even he was more effective at that spot than DQ. We've built a small 2nd level which means we need the front to keep them clean... not give up wide open gaps with room for the RB and his pulling OL to escort him. The 2nd and 3rd level definitely misplayed a lot of their assignments but they were not put in favorable positions either. The way to beat Henry is make him hesitate just a bit in the backfield which requires penetration from the front. If he can just accelerate without breaking momentum that is a tough ask for almost any LB or safety.

 

I actually disagree very strongly. The more I watch the all22 the more convinced I am that the linebackers and the safetys were the primary reason for the defensive failure.

 

I caught Joe Marino's bit on WGR he said that same. 

 

I don't think it was primarily coaching (though I do think Babich is continually trying to "do too much" in these games.... some bear front, some base defense, too many blitzes which Lamar killed) it was primarily a more basic inability to gst basic run fits right. Bernard was dreadful, Rapp was worse. Milano was almost as bad. Williams was all over the place and Bishop still looks tentative and late on most plays. 

 

It isn't so much about tackling Henry in space. I agree that is darn hard. It is about basic gap discipline and run fits. And the linebackers and safeties sucked at it on Sunday.

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Is that what he's coached to do? Are you sure? Could very well be theyve been told to run their assignments and do their 1/11th no matter what. Otherwise, you have some guys running 1 play, and others running another. Who knows? Someone should ask Babich.

 

I don't know what he has been coached but he should not have followed through with that blitz. No way. That is just bad football. Players have to be accountable.

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't know what he has been coached but he should not have followed through with that blitz. No way. That is just bad football. Players have to be accountable.

 

So they can all make it up as they go?

 

Look, I dont disagree. But we dont know. It didnt look like much of the defense was prepared for the obvious things the Ravens were throwing at them, so my questioning starts to go above the players.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

So they can all make it up as they go?

 

Look, I dont disagree. But we dont know. It didnt look like much of the defense was prepared for the obvious things the Ravens were throwing at them, so my questioning starts to go above the players.

 

I can't absolve a player for such a just basic common sense error. I'm sorry. Coaches coach. But players have to play. That are not inanimate chess pieces.... though come to think of it a pawn and a rook would be an upgrade on the Bills current safeties.

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I can't absolve a player for such a just basic common sense error. I'm sorry. Coaches coach. But players have to play. That are not inanimate chess pieces.... though come to think of it a pawn and a rook would be an upgrade on the Bills current safeties.

 

Is that a common sense error? Do defensive players usually abandon their assignments? Serious question.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Is that a common sense error? Do defensive players usually abandon their assignments? Serious question.

 

When it is already obvious at the snap that their assignment is blown? Yes. It's the equivalent of a Quarterback throwing the ball into the dirt when the screen he was hoping to throw is blown up immediately. 

 

I guarantee when they reviewed the film on Monday his coaches weren't saying "atta boy Cole you played your assignment" they were saying "you are in the pros now you have to be mentally capable of using judgment and adjusting on the fly." 

[Coach Tuesday]

25 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I actually disagree very strongly. The more I watch the all22 the more convinced I am that the linebackers and the safetys were the primary reason for the defensive failure.

 

I caught Joe Marino's bit on WGR he said that same. 

 

I don't think it was primarily coaching (though I do think Babich is continually trying to "do too much" in these games.... some bear front, some base defense, too many blitzes which Lamar killed) it was primarily a more basic inability to gst basic run fits right. Bernard was dreadful, Rapp was worse. Milano was almost as bad. Williams was all over the place and Bishop still looks tentative and late on most plays. 

 

It isn't so much about tackling Henry in space. I agree that is darn hard. It is about basic gap discipline and run fits. And the linebackers and safeties sucked at it on Sunday.

 

I don't know what he has been coached but he should not have followed through with that blitz. No way. That is just bad football. Players have to be accountable.

In Babich’s presser he was clearly not thrilled with how Bernard played, and said he was thinking too much instead of flowing downhill.  FWIW.

[HappyDays]

47 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I don't think it was primarily coaching (though I do think Babich is continually trying to "do too much" in these games.... some bear front, some base defense, too many blitzes which Lamar killed) it was primarily a more basic inability to gst basic run fits right. Bernard was dreadful, Rapp was worse. Milano was almost as bad. Williams was all over the place and Bishop still looks tentative and late on most plays. 

 

Those players you mentioned haven't had issues with run fits before though. Certainly not to the disastrous level they did on Sunday. Milano has always been an elite cerebral player and it's not like he was getting beat up physically, he was overrunning his gaps or getting to his landmarks late. At a certain point the coaches have to be accountable for every single 2nd and 3rd level player having a worst game of their career type of performance. Getting beat by their cadence for example falls on coaching IMO. Week 1 you expect some rust but one team looked extremely prepared and one team looked like day one install of training camp.

 

FWIW I chalk most of that up to Babich more than McDermott. McDermott hired him so he owns the final responsibility, but still Babich has to have his guys better prepared than that. As a head coach managing the game I thought McDermott was as good as I've ever seen him.

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

Those players you mentioned haven't had issues with run fits before though

Disagree hard.

 

Milano, while awesome, had has his fair share of wash out games against the run. So has Bernard. And for Williams it’s like his calling card.

 

I think it was the perfect storm of messing up run fits and the safeties knowing if Henry gets to the second level, they have to try to stop him. Rapp took like the worst tentative angle against Henry in that second or third long run down the left sideline because imo he was overthinking.

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Those players you mentioned haven't had issues with run fits before though. Certainly not to the disastrous level they did on Sunday. Milano has always been an elite cerebral player and it's not like he was getting beat up physically, he was overrunning his gaps or getting to his landmarks late. At a certain point the coaches have to be accountable for every single 2nd and 3rd level player having a worst game of their career type of performance. Getting beat by their cadence for example falls on coaching IMO. Week 1 you expect some rust but one team looked extremely prepared and one team looked like day one install of training camp.

 

FWIW I chalk most of that up to Babich more than McDermott. McDermott hired him so he owns the final responsibility, but still Babich has to have his guys better prepared than that. As a head coach managing the game I thought McDermott was as good as I've ever seen him.

 

I disagree that the Bills were not ready to play. Indeed on the Ravens first drive I think they fitted things up pretty nicely. It was after that the wheels came off. Sure, Baltimore's cadance and quick snaps caught us in a bind in some spots - that is true. Could there have been adjustments there? Sure. 

 

But the disastrous play of the 2nd and 3rd level is on the players. They have to be accountable. 

 

I am not a big Bobby Babich fan but I cannot really put this on him. As I said before, especially first half, I think he was guilty of trying to do a bit too nuch with some of the calls and personnel packages and that is on him. But the stuff the Bills were getting wrong routinely on Sunday night is not stuff experienced players like Milano, Bernard and Rapp especially should be getting wrong. Coaches coach, but players have to play. And those three played dreadfully.

[Wayne Cubed]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I disagree that the Bills were not ready to play. Indeed on the Ravens first drive I think they fitted things up pretty nicely. It was after that the wheels came off. Sure, Baltimore's cadance and quick snaps caught us in a bind in some spots - that is true. Could there have been adjustments there? Sure. 

 

But the disastrous play of the 2nd and 3rd level is on the players. They have to be accountable. 

 

I am not a big Bobby Babich fan but I cannot really put this on him. As I said before, especially first half, I think he was guilty of trying to do a bit too nuch with some of the calls and personnel packages and that is on him. But the stuff the Bills were getting wrong routinely on Sunday night is not stuff experienced players like Milano, Bernard and Rapp especially should be getting wrong. Coaches coach, but players have to play. And those three played dreadfully.

I do wonder if some of it is this pre season and how players now don't really have one. I agree with what you said about the 2nd level. The LBs and Safety's just looked slow to react or weren't reading the plays correctly. Rusty, I would call it. I thought for the most part the DL as a whole, outside of the rookies, did a decent job. And then Oliver obviously adjusted and took over.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

I do wonder if some of it is this pre season and how players now don't really have one. I agree with what you said about the 2nd level. The LBs and Safety's just looked slow to react or weren't reading the plays correctly. Rusty, I would call it. I thought for the most part the DL as a whole, outside of the rookies, did a decent job. And then Oliver obviously adjusted and took over.

 

Yea - it's also worth saying that all three years he has been the starter Bernard has had a rough week 1. He struggled at the Jets his first start as the MLB in 2023 - missed some assignments that allowed Breece Hall to break off long ones, had a couple of big missed tackles vs the Cardinals in week one last year..... given the lack of pre-season snaps he feels like a guy who needs a game to get himself going. 

 

It is also true what @HappyDays said that even when they are at their best not sure the Ravens is a game that necessarily plays to Milano and Bernard's strengths. But man they just gotta play better than they did on Sunday. They have to read it better, react better, make better decisions and execute their assignments. 

[eball]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

But man they just gotta play better than they did on Sunday. They have to read it better, react better, make better decisions and execute their assignments. 

 

The Ravens’ strategy to go uptempo and keep the Bills from making presnap calls (due to crowd noise) was a stroke of genius by the Ravens’ OC and (I think) also played a role in how bad the D looked at times.  It’s something Babich needs to learn from and figure out how to adapt.

 

[SoCal Deek]

I’m going to give the Defense a week or two before I render a verdict. There’s a reason why the Ravens are universally regarded as a Super Bowl contender. They have few, if any, weaknesses on offense. They have a whole host of weapons to present to opposing defenses. The Bills were darn lucky they didn’t have to contend with Likely as well. 

[DrDawkinstein]

13 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

As a head coach managing the game I thought McDermott was as good as I've ever seen him.

 

Absolutely. I give McD enough flak but also credit where it is due. The team, overall, was a well-oiled machine. Stayed disciplined and dialed-in. And the entire series at the end of the game was a thing of beauty, forcing Baltimore to burn through their TOs, getting the ball setup, getting the clock running, running the fg team out and getting the snap off right at 2 seconds left, no errors or dumb penalties. Very, very impressive, and I think under-appreciated across the fans in the aftermath.

 

The specific gameplans/schemes/playcalling may have been less than perfect, and some player execution needs improvement. But no real mistakes that kill the team.

 

I also agree that McD made all the right decisions as they popped up. Including the decision to NOT challenge the bad spot.

 

Big props to McD on that.

[BillsVet]

15 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

McD's coverage schemes on the backend are more complex than anything Rex ran. Now Rex's D was more complex up front, that is fair. They are just different styles. 

 

That may be.  Still doesn't remove the larger point that this season is a referendum on the HC, GM, and their philosophy on how to win.  

Edited September 11 by BillsVet

[BearNorth]

Interesting that probably the decisive play in the game was Ed O's remarkable individual effort at stripping King Henry in the backfield and our guys being quick to the ball to recover the fumble.