How much better is the Ravens team on paper than the Bills?

[billsfan89]

40 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

The Lamar injury was kinda a long term gift for their front office tbh.. it cost them a year of being very competitive (in a year the chiefs were at max offensive power)  but no way they get Kyle Hamilton for 4 years on a rookie deal without that injury..  if Lamar doesn’t get hurt that year they probably go 12-5 and get the 1 seed

 

 

 

Because they traded Hollywood Brown to Arizona they would have had two firsts that year so who knows how they would have maneuvered it. They ended up with an elite center in Linderbaum and an elite safety in Hamilton. Had they just landed those players that would have been a fantastic draft but they also got several other role players and starters in that draft. Isaiah Likely, Jordan Stout their punter, and Daniel Faalele were also taken in that draft. They ended up with 4 starters and a punter from that draft...

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

Lamar does not possess the power or physical running game that Allen does. Not even close. 

 

Jackson is 6’2/205. Allen is 6’5/237. 

 

Allen has enough speed and elusiveness to at least be in the same world as Lamar. He’s essentially a hybrid of Jackson/Henry. 

That's all fluff. Lamar is significantly more prolific running if we're just talking facts backed by stats.

There's not a statistical argument that Allen is better than or even equal to Jackson rushing the football.

[Mat68]

The defense with 4 All Pros gave up 41 points.   Bills oline and Wr corp is better.  D line is a push leaning Buffalo.  Saftey play Baltimore and Corner room is a push.  They are closer than you think.  Media and PFF say one thing but the results on the field say another.  In the last 2 games what play did Baltimores defense make?  They gave up more points, made less plays but are better because they have a cool black bird on their helmet?  

Edited September 9 by Mat68

[YattaOkasan]

1 minute ago, Mat68 said:

The defense with 4 All Pros gave up 41 points.   Bills oline and Wr corp is better.  D line is a push leaning Buffalo.  Saftey play Baltimore and Corner room is a push.  They are closer than you think.  Media and PFF say one thing but the results in the field say another.  In the last 2 games what play did Baltimores defense make?  They gave up more points, made less plays but are better because they have a cool black bird on their helmet?  

I have found it funny that lead into the game was that Ravens have a better roster AND they circled this game so will give it their best shot.  Then after the game its still Ravens gave it their best shot for 3.5 quarters and have a better roster.   I just dont understand how you can think they are clearly a better roster and played better for 3.5 quarters but lost.  Something has to give there.  

[twoandfourteen]

11 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

That's all fluff. Lamar is significantly more prolific running if we're just talking facts backed by stats.

There's not a statistical argument that Allen is better than or even equal to Jackson rushing the football.

 

Are you sure about that?

 

Allen averages under a yard less per attempt (0.7) than Jackson — but has 33 more TDs in 250 less rushing attempts. That one yard difference is primarily short yardage situations, which Lamar Jackson is not suited for. 

 

I’d say he’s much better rushing the football in key scoring or short-yardage situations than Lamar Jackson. Lamar has more elusiveness and “video game” highlights when escaping pressure — but when you need a yard or two, it’s no contest. Josh Allen can hold his own with Jackson in the open field, as well. 

Edited September 9 by twoandfourteen

[Mat68]

2 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

I have found it funny that lead into the game was that Ravens have a better roster AND they circled this game so will give it their best shot.  Then after the game its still Ravens gave it their best shot for 3.5 quarters and have a better roster.   I just dont understand how you can think they are clearly a better roster and played better for 3.5 quarters but lost.  Something has to give there.  

Push come to shove what team made the stops? What team converted plays.  The Bills.  Multiple sacks.  Both Rousseau and Bosa nearly got a third and the final Henry run doesn't happen.  The play of the game the forced fumble by Oliver.  3 yards in the backfield btw.  Where was that with Baltimore.  The Bills offense going conservative was the only thing that slowed the Bills early.     

[starrymessenger]

2 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

The defense with 4 All Pros gave up 41 points.   Bills oline and Wr corp is better.  D line is a push leaning Buffalo.  Saftey play Baltimore and Corner room is a push.  They are closer than you think.  Media and PFF say one thing but the results in the field say another.  In the last 2 games what play did Baltimores defense make?  They gave up more points, made less plays but are better because they have a cool black bird on their helmet?  

They are very talented on D. What puzzled me was their decision to generally rush 4. Bills do have an excellent O line. Even a good front 4 is not enuf to pressure JA. If you can't pressure him he will likely destroy you, as any elite passing QB would likely do. And if you manage to force him from the pocket there is a good chance you will regret it. I get it that Josh can also be a menace when he's blitzed but the lack of a pass rush was what stood out as a weakness to me. I don't know whether this was a personnel or scheme driven decision.

[BullBuchanan]

6 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

Are you sure about that?

 

Allen averages under a yard less per attempt (0.7) than Jackson — but has 33 more TDs in 250 less rushing attempts. That one yard difference is primarily short yardage situations, which Lamar Jackson is not suited for. 

 

I’d say he’s much better rushing the football in key scoring or short-yardage situations than Lamar Jackson. Lamar has more elusiveness and “video game” highlights when escaping pressure — but when you need a yard or two, it’s no contest. Josh Allen can hold his own with Jackson in the open field, as well. 

I'm very sure about it yes. Do you appreciate how much of a difference .7 YA is?

Allen's most prolific rushing season he had 763 yards. In 6 of 7 seasons, Jackson's lowest total is 764

That missed sack by Bosa and Rousseau where Jackson was 15 yards behind the LoS and then rushed for a first down? That's a Jackson exclusive play. No other QB in NFL history makes that play.

[mjt328]

31 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

That is also true for Josh. Allen is a very gifted runner, one of the best ever. But Jackson is the greatest to ever do it from the QB position.

 

I recently heard someone say that Jackson is a sports car, and Allen is a tank.

 

Jackson is setting all the QB rushing records when it comes to yardage.

Allen is setting all the QB rushing records when it comes to touchdowns.

 

Side note:  I realize that Jalen Hurts is also rocketing up the TD list, but the vast majority of his are coming from tush-push sneaks.

 

[DapperCam]

26 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

That's all fluff. Lamar is significantly more prolific running if we're just talking facts backed by stats.

There's not a statistical argument that Allen is better than or even equal to Jackson rushing the football.

Allen will probably end his career as the 2nd best rushing QB of all time, but Jackson will be #1 by a country mile (depending on health of course).

[Einstein]

Rochesterfans literally comes to this website every day just to eyeroll posts 😂

[Gunsgoodtime]

We would have a handful maybe that starts for Baltimore, that's about it. If we had a roster such as the Ravens we would have a SB trophy with Josh Allen

[twoandfourteen]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

I'm very sure about it yes. Do you appreciate how much of a difference .7 YA is?

Allen's most prolific rushing season he had 763 yards. In 6 of 7 seasons, Jackson's lowest total is 764

That missed sack by Bosa and Rousseau where Jackson was 15 yards behind the LoS and then rushed for a first down? That's a Jackson exclusive play. No other QB in NFL history makes that play.

 

You can have your .7 of a yard. I’ll take 33 more rushing TDs. 

 

Allen also comes with 6,000 more passing yards. 

 

By the way, Michael Vick absolutely escaped near-sacks the way Jackson did Sunday night. I don’t know how old you are, but youtube has plenty of Vick highlights that prove he was the “OG God-tier Rushing QB”. 

 

Lamar is the flashier runner, no argument there. But Allen produces on the ground AND in the air at a rate that has never been seen before. 

[nedboy7]

Shame on you all for forgetting Bishop. 

[Einstein]

Just now, nedboy7 said:

Shame on you all for forgetting Bishop. 

We are trying to forget him.

[Lost]

19 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

I have found it funny that lead into the game was that Ravens have a better roster AND they circled this game so will give it their best shot.  Then after the game its still Ravens gave it their best shot for 3.5 quarters and have a better roster.   I just dont understand how you can think they are clearly a better roster and played better for 3.5 quarters but lost.  Something has to give there.  

 

Since acquiring Henry Baltimore's O really has had it's way with us if not for the few critical turnovers.   Week 4 they blew us out.  Divisional round last year, Mark Andrews personally gifted us the win with 2 critical drops and a fumble.   This past week it was the critical Henry fumble late in the game that gave us a chance.   Yeah, you can make the argument that what makes us the better team is the ability to generate turnovers and it is something the Bills under McDermott have had continued success with, but it's just not something I like hanging my hat on because there is usually a lot of variance and luck involved with turnover differential.   

[Mat68]

15 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I'm very sure about it yes. Do you appreciate how much of a difference .7 YA is?

Allen's most prolific rushing season he had 763 yards. In 6 of 7 seasons, Jackson's lowest total is 764

That missed sack by Bosa and Rousseau where Jackson was 15 yards behind the LoS and then rushed for a first down? That's a Jackson exclusive play. No other QB in NFL history makes that play.

The prolific to me adds touchdowns into the equation.  Jackson is a better runner.  The amount of touchdowns Allen scores rushing makes him the more prolific runner.  

[YattaOkasan]

Just now, Lost said:

 

Since acquiring Henry Baltimore's O really has had it's way with us if not for the few critical turnovers.   Week 4 they blew us out.  Divisional round last year, Mark Andrews personally gifted us the win with 2 critical drops and a fumble.   This past week it was the critical Henry fumble late in the game that gave us a chance.   Yeah, you can make the argument that what makes us the better team is the ability to generate turnovers and it is something the Bills under McDermott have had continued success with, but it's just not something I like hanging my hat on because there is usually a lot of variance and luck involved with turnover differential.   

Logically it dont make sense.  How were we in position to take advantage of one TO (that came really late in the game) if they had this game circled as revenge (all reporting from the sideline was they were just having a good time) and they are clearly the better roster?  To me it seems that they had a lot to prove and set out doing it.  We are similarly talented and so we kept pace with them (particularly through the second half) so that when they made a critical mistake we were in position to take advantage.  Simply being in position to take advantage of ONE TO means they are not clearly the better roster.  

[Mat68]

29 minutes ago, Lost said:

 

Since acquiring Henry Baltimore's O really has had it's way with us if not for the few critical turnovers.   Week 4 they blew us out.  Divisional round last year, Mark Andrews personally gifted us the win with 2 critical drops and a fumble.   This past week it was the critical Henry fumble late in the game that gave us a chance.   Yeah, you can make the argument that what makes us the better team is the ability to generate turnovers and it is something the Bills under McDermott have had continued success with, but it's just not something I like hanging my hat on because there is usually a lot of variance and luck involved with turnover differential.   

Why cant the “better” guys make a play? Oliver was the best defender on the field for either team in that game.  Because he made the plays.  

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

We have between Bills 5/22 spots and 9/22 from posters. I think the 5 is very harsh and even if the 9s concede a spot, you are left with the Bills beating this team 3 out of 4 is it? Is Bills coaching and scheme that much better? No i don't think so. Is it all luck? No I don't think so. The Bills are actually better on paper than some of our more pessimistic posters think. Especially on the O-Line!