WGR Discussing McD's job security

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, RoscoeParrish said:

I find it more than curious that you (and others) seem to try to separate McD and the rest of the teams performances.

 

When the ST groups fail, the head coach wears it.

 

When the offense fails, the head coach wears it.

 

When the defense fails spectacularly, the head coach wears it.

 

To me, all you have proven is that the head coach Sean McDermott in year 8 has managed to fail in multiple ways over multiple seasons.

 

I have never sought to do that though. The Head Coach and General Manager between them are ultimately accountable for everything. Good and bad. 

 

But do I think either of them is the single thing holding the Bills back? No I don't and I don't think the evidence supports that. At the point where I do I will advocate firing one or both.

[lookylookyherecomescookie]

1 hour ago, Rousseauisnoschmo said:

I lived through the Kelly years thank you very much. Had seasons tickets from 86-96. Four superbowl losses later and approaching retirement age theres only one thing left and Mcdermott can't even get us were Marv got us. Times wasting. Allen will be 30 soon. The biggest mistake would be accepting playoff beatdown after playoff beatdown at the hands of KC. McDermott is not the reason for our success. Allen is.

I've been going to Bills games since Richie Lucas, you're welcome.

[Rousseauisnoschmo]

5 minutes ago, lookylookyherecomescookie said:

I've been going to Bills games since Richie Lucas, you're welcome.

You got me beat by 13 years. Woopdie freakin doo. One things for sure. You wouldn't know substandard coaching if it bit you in the rearend.

[RoscoeParrish]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have never sought to do that though. The Head Coach and General Manager between them are ultimately accountable for everything. Good and bad. 

 

But do I think either of them is the single thing holding the Bills back? No I don't and I don't think the evidence supports that. At the point where I do I will advocate firing one or both.

Your defense of McD losing to KC last year was, “the offense couldn’t score at the end.”

 

It’s Sean McDermotts’ offense. He’s the head coach.

 

Sean McDermott’s offense failed last year. They failed in 2023. Sean McDermott’s defense failed basically every other postseason. Sean McDermott’s special teams failed in 2023 and 2021. Sean McDermott’s team has failed in the postseason every season since 2019, when COVID was a glimmer in its mothers’ eye.

 

It’s unfortunately seems a way to deflect from McD and Beane. “Josh had the ball in his hands and couldn’t it get it done”

 

The hidden, unspoken clause at the end of that statement is “so it’s not McDermott’s fault.”

 

But that’s just not the full story. He was throwing to Curtis Samuel or the latest first round disappointment in a do or die moment so we could build a defense instead to allow another KC season high total. 

[lookylookyherecomescookie]

1 minute ago, Rousseauisnoschmo said:

You got me beat by 13 years. Woopdie freakin doo. One things for sure. You wouldn't know substandard coaching if it bit you in the rearend.

If you think McDermott is a substandard coach, there's really no point in having this conversation. I should have known better.

[FLFan]

6 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

SuperBowl or bust for me. Honestly if he got outcoached in the SuperBowl I'd move on too. He should have been let go after 13 seconds and if Hamlin hadn't died he should have been fired after the Bengals playoff loss. 

Why would a new stadium have anything to do with the GM or HC decision? That makes no logical sense either way. 

Beane has given him every tool to work with. Josh is at the apex of his career and there are precious few years left of his elite play. 

Reality is if they make the playoffs and lose again he isn't going to get fired. We are stuck with him. Only a catastrophic season would make Pegula move on.

Yeah you are stuck with the best HC this team has seen  in the last 20 years and maybe in the lat 50. 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, FLFan said:

Yeah you are stuck with the best HC this team has seen  in the last 20 years and maybe in the lat 50. 

do you think it's just a total coincidence that the best HC and the best QB arrived concurrently?

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, RoscoeParrish said:

Your defense of McD losing to KC last year was, “the offense couldn’t score at the end.”

 

It’s Sean McDermotts’ offense. He’s the head coach.

 

Sean McDermott’s offense failed last year. They failed in 2023. Sean McDermott’s defense failed basically every other postseason. Sean McDermott’s special teams failed in 2023 and 2021. Sean McDermott’s team has failed in the postseason every season since 2019, when COVID was a glimmer in its mothers’ eye.

 

It’s unfortunately seems a way to deflect from McD and Beane. “Josh had the ball in his hands and couldn’t it get it done”

 

The hidden, unspoken clause at the end of that statement is “so it’s not McDermott’s fault.”

 

But that’s just not the full story. He was throwing to Curtis Samuel or the latest first round disappointment in a do or die moment so we could build a defense instead to allow another KC season high total. 

 

Of course it is McDermott's offense. Of course it is McDermott's Bills that have not got over the hump. McDermott coached, Beane built. And they haven't found a way. 

 

But that doesn't equate to "therefore they are the problem so must be fired." That is the leap folks are making that I don't think is supported. 

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

do you think it's just a total coincidence that the best HC and the best QB arrived concurrently?

 

I mean it is, right? That isn't to say that without Allen McDermott would still have anything like the record he has or by this stage would still be in a job. But he is (and would still be) the Bills best head coach of the last 20 years. Now you might argue back "that isn't a high bar" and that would be fair. 

Edited August 8 by GunnerBill

[uticaclub]

13 minutes ago, FLFan said:

Yeah you are stuck with the best HC this team has seen  in the last 20 years and maybe in the lat 50. 

The tallest midget can't dunk a basketball

[Rousseauisnoschmo]

21 minutes ago, lookylookyherecomescookie said:

If you think McDermott is a substandard coach, there's really no point in having this conversation. I should have known better.

You're right. 35 points average given up in the four KC playoff losses is awesome. My bad. 

[T.E.]

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

But he is (and would still be) the Bills best head coach of the last 20 years. Now you might argue back "that isn't a high bar" and that would be fair. 

Are coaches like Jauron, Gailey, Marrone, and Ryan somehow not consistently making the playoffs with Josh Allen at QB?

[GoBills808]

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Of course it is McDermott's offense. Of course it is McDermott's Bills that have not got over the hump. McDermott coached, Beane built. And they haven't found a way. 

 

But that doesn't equate to "therefore they are the problem so must be fired." That is the leap folks are making that I don't think is supported. 

 

I mean it is, right? That isn't to say that without Allen McDermott would still have anything like the record he has or by this stage would still be in a job. But he is (and would still be) the Bills best head coach of the last 20 years. Now you might argue back "that isn't a high bar" and that would be fair. 

im saying it doesnt matter

 

whoever happened to be HC when Allen arrived was/is going to be 'best Bills HC of all time'

[Don Otreply]

47 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I mean, it's the truth. I don't think it is one thing failing the Bills. They just haven't made the critical plays. 

True enough but, maybe a little scheme modification could be helpful in the post season, like not giving a free release off the LOS in clutch moments, got to be in a position to succeed to succeed…,  I certainly don’t have the answers, but running it back with a wrinkle or two for post season play couldn’t hurt, fingers crossed the chips fall in our favor this year, 

 

GO BILLS!!!

47 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I mean, it's the truth. I don't think it is one thing failing the Bills. They just haven't made the critical plays. 

True enough but, maybe a little scheme modification could be helpful in the post season, like not giving a free release off the LOS in clutch moments, got to be in a position to succeed to succeed…,  I certainly don’t have the answers, but running it back with a wrinkle or two for post season play couldn’t hurt, fingers crossed the chips fall in our favor this year, 

 

GO BILLS!!!

47 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I mean, it's the truth. I don't think it is one thing failing the Bills. They just haven't made the critical plays. 

True enough but, maybe a little scheme modification could be helpful in the post season, like not giving a free release off the LOS in clutch moments, got to be in a position to succeed to succeed…,  I certainly don’t have the answers, but running it back with a wrinkle or two for post season play couldn’t hurt, fingers crossed the chips fall in our favor this year, 

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Buffalo Boy]

Two types of people:

1. Takes chances to better themself understanding the risk of failure is there. Can live with failing but can’t live with not trying. 
2. Quietly molder with the status quo while talking themselves into liking it* because it’s safe.

 

talking themselves into liking it:

All sorts of excuses, same ones over and over, each year.

 

Go back to the threads after 13 seconds and see the same excuses

or after Bengals, or any KC playoff loss.

 

Some coaches are really good but will never be great. McD is one such coach.

 
Wasting Josh’s prime on him is a fools errand 

[Rousseauisnoschmo]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

Two types of people:

1. Takes chances to better themself understanding the risk of failure is there. Can live with failing but can’t live with not trying. 
2. Quietly molder with the status quo while talking themselves into liking it* because it’s safe.

 

talking themselves into liking it:

All sorts of excuses, same ones over and over, each year.

 

Go back to the threads after 13 seconds and see the same excuses

or after Bengals, or any KC playoff loss.

 

Some coaches are really good but will never be great. McD is one such coach.

 
Wasting Josh’s prime on him is a fools errand 

Exactly one hundred percent correct.

[FLFan]

31 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

do you think it's just a total coincidence that the best HC and the best QB arrived concurrently?

If you are suggesting that the only reason the Bills win is because of Allen I would strongly disagree. That is a very simplistic analysis and although popular, totally wrong in my opinion. 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

and the standard for the defense (according to you) is still 'hey they got a stop in that game we gave up 32 in?'

 

Also worth mentioning that that KC offense was seen as the weakest of the Mahomes era and scored just 24.1 PPG in the regular season, and looked somewhere between lackluster and putrid in their other two postseason games. Against us they instead spent the entire 1st half marching down the field at will except one time when Mahomes handed us the ball for free. So yeah it's hard to ignore all of that because of one great individual play made by Jordan Phillips on their final series.

 

My standard for this season, for the massive disparity between defensive vs offensive investments to be worth it, is for the Bills defense to hold KC to less than 24 points in our inevitable playoff matchup. Other defenses have managed that feat and without the benefit of having an all-world QB on the other side sustaining drives through sheer force of will. So if all of those investments combined with a defensive head coach isn't enough for us to perform to that bare minimum standard, then really what is the point of keeping this regime around?

[Mikie2times]

6 minutes ago, FLFan said:

If you are suggesting that the only reason the Bills win is because of Allen I would strongly disagree. That is a very simplistic analysis and although popular, totally wrong in my opinion. 

It's not that simple. But the data shows QB's that perform at Allen's level win 6-7 out of every 10 games.

 

Saying McD is the difference between a playoff birth or not is even more simplistic. 

Edited August 8 by Mikie2times

[Jerry Jabber]

Is McDermott good enough to win a Superbowl? While there’s no doubting him and Beane changed the Bills culture and turned the team into a winner, McDermott’s game day decisions have been highly questionable at times. Anyone that’s been watching football for a while will tell you with having a lead with 13 seconds left, you don’t kick the ball in the endzone on a kickoff, you kick it short of the goal line to take time off the clock. Also, you don’t continue to rush four players afterwards, you rush 2 or 3 and make sure the other teams star players are blanketed. 

When it comes to the playoffs vs the Chiefs, Andy Reid is the superior coach vs McDermott. I hope McDermott can get over that hump and bring a Lombardi trophy to Western NY. 

[Nostradumbass]

All we did was lose before he got here all we’ve done is win since

 

Firing him would be a tragic mistake without a top, top coach available to take over (Mike Tomlin)