DrDawkinstein Posted August 5 Posted August 5 6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: all this to say- i think cook has it a lot easier running the ball in this offense than he would elsewhere. hes scheme protected in a way kyren williams for example isn't Easy to argue that RBs are scheme protected in a McVay/Shanny offense as well. Maybe even more so. Just differently. Just now, Pete said: Is Kyren a 3 down back? If so, Kyren is 1/3 more useful that Cook. This should, and Im sure is baked into Beanes offer Should also factor all the times we dont even get to 3rd down because Cook is gaining 5 yards/carry (4.9), while Kyren needs 3-4 carries just to move the chains. 2 1 Quote
Pete Posted August 5 Posted August 5 Just now, DrDawkinstein said: Easy to argue that RBs are scheme protected in a McVay/Shanny offense as well. Maybe even more so. Just differently. Should also factor all the times we dont even get to 3rd down because Cook is gaining 5 yards/carry (4.9), while Kyren needs 3-4 carries just to move the chains. I dont, and I am guessing Beane does not appreciate how Cook is handling "business". Nor does he want to set precedent, and reward such Non Bills DNA behavior. Back in early 70s when Buffalo was freezing, and Bills not so good, Al Davis used to threaten to trade hold outs to Buffalo lol 1 1 Quote
DrDawkinstein Posted August 5 Posted August 5 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Pete said: I dont, and I am guessing Beane does not appreciate how Cook is handling "business". Nor does he want to set precedent, and reward such Non Bills DNA behavior. Back in early 70s when Buffalo was freezing, and Bills not so good, Al Davis used to threaten to trade hold outs to Buffalo lol If Beane is truly the professional executive we all want him to be, then he isnt letting "feelings" get involved at all and understands this is all modern MO in negotiations. JaMar Chase, Tee Higgins, Myles Garrett, TJ Watt, all had way more "drama" at this point, but got deals done. Terry McLaurin, Micah Parsons, Trey Hendrickson, all holding in, will get deals done. The GMs dont get nearly as offended as the fans. For good reason. And those are just the names from the past month or so. This happens every year across the league. It's how it goes. Edited August 5 by DrDawkinstein 2 1 Quote
nuklz2594 Posted August 5 Posted August 5 Beaner will not tag him. Not against Cook. If he, and a big if, he holds,...wonder what his reaction will be when Ray and ty get the job done. Quote
LABILLBACKER Posted August 5 Posted August 5 2 hours ago, NewEra said: Eyeballs. Cook is better. Eyeballs closed when blocking 2 Quote
GoBills808 Posted August 5 Posted August 5 6 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Easy to argue that RBs are scheme protected in a McVay/Shanny offense as well. Maybe even more so. Just differently. Should also factor all the times we dont even get to 3rd down because Cook is gaining 5 yards/carry (4.9), while Kyren needs 3-4 carries just to move the chains. is it? you know how much easier it is to run against fronts that have to accommodate for QB keep tag? we should give ty johnson the ball more, then...he averages 5.2! Quote
DrDawkinstein Posted August 5 Posted August 5 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: is it? you know how much easier it is to run against fronts that have to accommodate for QB keep tag? About the same as it is running against defenses who are gameplanned to stop McVay's all-out air show. 🤷♂️ Quote
Buffalo716 Posted August 5 Posted August 5 16 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: not to get into heavy x&o but iirc we ran the heavy jumbo set (6oline plus 2TE) a ton early in the season and were able to get a lot of success w knox/kincaid seam but as far as actually running the ball from jumbo it's basically either outside zone or duo...it's an exotic look but we aren't doing it to add a gap and get fancy w some zone blocking scheme, we were basically just using it to bash people and try to get defenses out of their lighter sets all this to say- i think cook has it a lot easier running the ball in this offense than he would elsewhere. hes scheme protected in a way kyren williams for example isn't I wouldn't even called an exotic look it's been around a long time cook does have great vision... The jumbo package allows him to use his patience and vision in very simple running schemes that he is comfortable in If you noticed he ran great to the right all year because Spencer Brown and when we put in Alec Anderson.. they were mauling people on the right side Quote
dollars 2 donuts Posted August 5 Posted August 5 I can't say I have read everything in this thread, but rarely have we been so thoughtful, versed and reasoned to a man in a single thread as we have been with this one. Everyone has made strong points and, forgive me for broad generalization, the suggested sweet spot seems to be between $11 million to $12.5 million per at max, and in a 3-4 year deal with more than half ($25 million?) guaranteed. I'm not saying the Bills are offering that, but if they were and Cook still doesn't sign I am not sure how we crack the armadillo after this to get both sides on the same page, I really don't. Go Bills 2 2 Quote
GoBills808 Posted August 5 Posted August 5 2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: About the same as it is running against defenses who are gameplanned to stop McVay's all-out air show. 🤷♂️ Rams 15th, 14th, and 24th in pass attempts last 3 seasons just fyi McVay stays pretty well balanced 3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: I wouldn't even called an exotic look it's been around a long time cook does have great vision... The jumbo package allows him to use his patience and vision in very simple running schemes that he is comfortable in If you noticed he ran great to the right all year because Spencer Brown and when we put in Alec Anderson.. they were mauling people on the right side exotic in modern game i guess i was saying i like to look at what i believe was coleman's first TD at home vs Jags i think? 6olinemen in w Cook brings the linebackers down and the call is playaction w crossers right in front of the conflicted safety...it was such a simple design/playcall and Cook still almost ruined it w a really bad block attempt lol 2 Quote
Saint Doug Posted August 5 Posted August 5 Cook is slightly better, but not by much. Not $4M per season better. I would offer him $12M per season and $25M guaranteed. 3 years. Quote
GoBills808 Posted August 5 Posted August 5 12 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: If Beane is truly the professional executive we all want him to be, then he isnt letting "feelings" get involved at all and understands this is all modern MO in negotiations. JaMar Chase, Tee Higgins, Myles Garrett, TJ Watt, all had way more "drama" at this point, but got deals done. Terry McLaurin, Micah Parsons, Trey Hendrickson, all holding in, will get deals done. The GMs dont get nearly as offended as the fans. For good reason. And those are just the names from the past month or so. This happens every year across the league. It's how it goes. agree this deal will either get done or it won't but the whole 'culture' or 'football DNA' stuff...i really think thats more for selling the fans than anything, pro football is business first 2 Quote
Buffalo716 Posted August 5 Posted August 5 (edited) 8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Rams 15th, 14th, and 24th in pass attempts last 3 seasons just fyi McVay stays pretty well balanced exotic in modern game i guess i was saying i like to look at what i believe was coleman's first TD at home vs Jags i think? 6olinemen in w Cook brings the linebackers down and the call is playaction w crossers right in front of the conflicted safety...it was such a simple design/playcall and Cook still almost ruined it w a really bad block attempt lol By definition I guess it's exotic because it's probably ran less than 15% of the time in the NFL.. It's not your typical look.. we ran it I think more than 25% because we were very effective I hope we add more to it next year.. I think we can get a couple big guy touchdowns on the goal line Edited August 5 by Buffalo716 Quote
NoSaint Posted August 5 Posted August 5 If they were on identical deals, I wouldn’t trade cook for kyren… but it wouldn’t be an absurd conversation. I think that speaks to sweetening cooks version slightly, and get it done. 1 Quote
DrDawkinstein Posted August 5 Posted August 5 Just now, Buffalo716 said: By definition I guess it's exotic because it's probably ran less than 15% of the time in the NFL.. It's not your typical look.. we ran it I think more than 25% because we were very effective I hope we add more to it next year You mean like... a 7th OL? 😆 Quote
Buffalo716 Posted August 5 Posted August 5 Just now, DrDawkinstein said: You mean like... a 7th OL? 😆 Hahaha no like more wrinkles... Maybe a couple of goal line plays where you chip and release with the Big fellas up front And then maybe I'd like to see a nice counter play out of it... Get Spencer Brown whipping around formation mauling A more nuanced play action game from it could be good 1 1 Quote
GoBills808 Posted August 5 Posted August 5 Just now, Buffalo716 said: By definition I guess it's exotic because it's probably ran less than 15% of the time in the NFL.. It's not your typical look.. we ran it I think more than 25% because we were very effective I hope we add more to it next year yes, i think they will have to add more wrinkles i think as long as Allen remains an effective runner you can go 6olinemen and stay multiple enough even w vanilla run scheme but once the threat of QB run is gone...tough sledding w 8man boxes and nobody outside who can consistently win Quote
NoSaint Posted August 5 Posted August 5 28 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Easy to argue that RBs are scheme protected in a McVay/Shanny offense as well. Maybe even more so. Just differently. Should also factor all the times we dont even get to 3rd down because Cook is gaining 5 yards/carry (4.9), while Kyren needs 3-4 carries just to move the chains. neither guy is saquon/cmc/henry both guys are very good, even if a bit shy of fully complete stars. we desperately need flashy speed somewhere in our offense… ours fits us best currently. 1 Quote
Sojourner Posted August 5 Posted August 5 No shade to Cook but it’s nice to see a guy that’s willing to take some value and not cripple the team financially. Quote
Ya Digg? Posted August 5 Posted August 5 10 minutes ago, Sojourner said: No shade to Cook but it’s nice to see a guy that’s willing to take some value and not cripple the team financially. “No shade to Cook” then immediately throws shade at him 🤦♂️🤦♂️ Quote
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