Does Thurman Thomas Get His Due? (Offseason rehash topic)

[Nihilarian]

22 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You wont get an argument for me against Payton as before he retired he was my favorite player as a kid.  But - in terms of OL, Sanders maybe had the worst OL I have ever seen someone be elite still running behind.  I think what makes Sanders the GOAT in my eyes is what he accomplished on mediocre teams, with OL's that were not very good and mediocre QB's around him.  Payton won a SB playing on a team that is often listed as one of the best teams ever as well.  

 

But again, Payton has a legit case, so won't argue against him.  I am still in the Sanders camp firmly, but fully recognize that is subjective and that Payton is a worthy challenger to the top spot.  

I think the same for Sweetness as he had nothing most of his days with the Chicago Bears. In 1977 the Bears made the playoffs mostly due to Payton and his QB was Bob Avellini...their top WR that year was James Scott. In 1979 they went to the playoffs again with QB Mike Phipps and the top receiver that year was Brian Baschnagel.

 

Defense and Payton were the reasons they managed to do anything until Mike Ditka became head coach. 

 

As for Sanders at least he had some other somewhat decent talent around him. In 1991 in his third year the Lions went 12-4 with Erik Kramer, Rodney Pete at QB, Herman Moore, Brett Perriman, Robert Clark at WR. they went to the conference Championship that year. In 1993 they went 10-6. In 1995 they went 10-6. 

 

However, I did love watching Barry Sanders as he could juke the cleats off defenders attempting to tackle him with nobody ever like him in that respect. 

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

I think the same for Sweetness as he had nothing most of his days with the Chicago Bears. In 1977 the Bears made the playoffs mostly due to Payton and his QB was Bob Avellini...their top WR that year was James Scott. In 1979 they went to the playoffs again with QB Mike Phipps and the top receiver that year was Brian Baschnagel.

 

Defense and Payton were the reasons they managed to do anything until Mike Ditka became head coach. 

 

As for Sanders at least he had some other somewhat decent talent around him. In 1991 in his third year the Lions went 12-4 with Erik Kramer, Rodney Pete at QB, Herman Moore, Brett Perriman, Robert Clark at WR. they went to the conference Championship that year. In 1993 they went 10-6. In 1995 they went 10-6. 

 

However, I did love watching Barry Sanders as he could juke the cleats off defenders attempting to tackle him with nobody ever like him in that respect. 

 

Yeah to be fair, I was born in 76, so I watched Payton more in the later years when the Bears were "Daaaaa Bears" lol 

[Pete]

3 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

The linebacker that he flattened (Isaiah Robertson) was a great player. Campbell was a total superstar.

I couldn't agree more. His offensive line was one of, if not the best ever. There were also great receivers that had to be accounted for.

Isiah-Smerlis-Nelson formed the formidable Bermuda Triangle.  That 1980 Bills team was overachieving, tough team, and pleasant surprise.  Bills had Conrad Dobler- the dirtiest player in 1980 probably.

 

“The year was a great one, though it certainly wasn’t a season without controversy. Between, as Zimmerman termed it, “l’affaire DeLamielleure” and some disgruntled commentary from running back Terry Miller (who was upset about ceding playing time to a rookie in Cribbs), there were also some truly bizarre moments. 

After Ferguson sprained his ankle, guard Conrad Dobler—whom the Bills had acquired via trade in the offseason, waived, then re-signed prior to the start of the regular season—told members of the media that backup quarterback Dan Manucci had “no pocket presence” and that David Humm should play in Ferguson’s place. Dobler took umbrage with comments Manucci had made about his protection breaking down, and Dobler replied, “I timed it on the film and Manucci had 7.5 seconds—make that minutes—to get the ball off. After a while, you think, ‘Maybe it’s us...’ Then you see the films and you feel better.”

Even stranger still was a November fistfight between linebackers Jim Haslett and Isiah Robertson. The two were arrested at the Pierce Arrow nightclub at around 2 a.m. Haslett’s injury, a cut to his finger, was suffered when Robertson bit him. After charges were dropped, the two staged a friendly re-enactment of the fight where Haslett told Robertson, “Don’t bite too hard, now—it still hurts.”

The Bills used the “Talkin’ Proud” song as their theme that year, and as someone who grew up outside of Western New York, I’m still awed by the lead actress, Terry Licata-Braunstein, and her posture as she struts throughout. The song fed into Buffalo’s underdog mentality, but the team also sang another tune throughout training camp, one that was far less indicative of a team that was headed nowhere. Isaiah Robertson sang about the Bills heading to the Super Bowl early on in the year, and while some may have laughed, he was nearly right. 

One final tidbit about this merry band of underdogs. The team’s first-round draft choice that year did not make a start all season, and actually, he only started three games in his first three seasons. However, when that player entered the starting lineup in 1983, he would go on to start every game for the team until Week 8 of the 1993 season. That man, Jim Ritcher, is also the only player who holds the distinction of having played on both the 1980 team and all four of Buffalo’s Super Bowl squads in the 1990s.

Talk proud about these underdogs, fellow Bills fans. Forty years later, they still deserve it.”

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2020/5/19/21262126/1980-buffalo-bills-an-underdog-story-ben-williams-joe-cribbs-joe-ferguson-jim-ritcher-miami-dolphins

 

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

The GOAT list starts and stops with Barry Sanders.  There has never been a runner as gifted or could do the things he could do.  There is a long list vying for #2 - but Barry is the GOAT IMHO.

 

As far as Thurman goes, once you get into past generations, the few that get spoken about generationally are the ones that remain in the debate for the top spot (Barry, Brown, Campbell, Emmitt, etc).  For the record, I don't think Emmitt was top 5, he benefitted a lot from the dominate OL, but he has the stats so he remains in the convo for many).  Thurman has no claim for the top spot, not even top 5 really, and doesn't even make some peoples top 10 all time.  That is why he doesn't get the due you think he should.  

 

He is a HOFer and all time great, but when you are not a top 5 guy, and don't even have a clear claim to top 10 all time, you are just not going to get talked about in the next generations and eras of the game as much.  

 

 

 

• BO!

 

Edited July 18 by Pete

[In Summary]

On 7/17/2025 at 6:32 PM, skibum said:

Thurman was the most complete RB of the group. Yeah, he could carry the rock with the best, but he could also run great routes and had hands like a proper wide receiver. He was a deadly weapon all over the field. Barry had the best juke moves of all time, but I think he gets more GOAT talk than he should. Emmitt was an amazing RB, and for a long time. His highlight reel is exciting to watch. He also won titles. He also ran behind an all-time O-line. 

 

One reason I think Thurman gets overlooked is that Marshall Faulk, LT, and Edgerrin James arrived on the scene soon after him, and they quickly brought the dual threat RB game to a new level. There just wasn't a lot of time for football fans to appreciate Thurman before he was surpassed by a new generation. 

..and if we factor in pass protection, does that further make a case for Thurman?

[Sierra Foothills]

On 7/18/2025 at 6:10 AM, Gregg said:

Those Oilers teams of the Campbell era remind me of these Bills. The Bills can't get past the Chiefs and those Oilers couldn't get past the Steelers. If it wasn't for the Steelers, then there is a good chance those Oilers teams get to and possibly win a Super Bowl. Campbell was a beast. He ran over and through people. He was one of the most physical backs that ever played and probably the main reason his career was short. He took and dished out a lot of punishment in his career.

 

Those Oilers teams of the Campbell era remind me of these Bills. The Bills can't get past the Chiefs and those Oilers couldn't get past the Steelers. If it wasn't for the Steelers, then there is a good chance those Oilers teams get to and possibly win a Super Bowl. Campbell was a beast. He ran over and through people. He was one of the most physical backs that ever played and probably the main reason his career was short. He took and dished out a lot of punishment in his career.

 

Earl Campbell was absolutely one of those runners (it seems like there were more "back then") who had a disregard for his own physical well-being. There was recent discussion here about Billy Simms. He and Walter Payton, Jim Brown, Cookie Gilchrist... and many more accepted the responsibility that came with being the star running back, which was the superstar position at the time, above quarterback.

 

These guys knew that they were the vanguard for their offenses... that running was equated to winning. And they knew that their teammates expected them to set the tone for physicality and toughness.

 

I feel that running backs were tougher back in the day.

 

On 7/18/2025 at 7:38 AM, Alphadawg7 said:

The GOAT list starts and stops with Barry Sanders.  There has never been a runner as gifted or could do the things he could do.  There is a long list vying for #2 - but Barry is the GOAT IMHO.

 

On 7/18/2025 at 9:33 AM, Ethan in Cleveland said:

I can agree with Sanders as best ever. I prefer more dual threat RBs like Thomas and Tomlinson but on pure rushing ability Sanders may indeed be the greatest. In terms of pure rushing I would say it is Sanders, Brown, OJ as my top 3. I would argue Simpson's 2003 yard 1973 season is the greatest rushing season and will never be close to being duplicated. His 143 yards/game is 10 yards higher than Jim Brown in second place and 15 yards per game better than Sanders best season. 

 

To the topic, I think Thurman might be a bit forgotten but that's because he was a generalist that did everything well. His game didn't jump of the field (and TV screen) like some other running backs.

 

As far as greatest of all time, there is no one who watched OJ Simpson play during his prime from 1972 until he was injured in 1977 who would leave him off their top 3.

 

It wasn't only his staggering accomplishments:

• six 200+ yard rushing games
• most games with over 250 yards
• most yards in a 14 game season
•  first runner with over 2000 yards in a season
• 5-time 1st team All-Pro
• NFL MVP
• 4 time NFL rushing leader
• NFL record for highest yards per game in a season (143.1)
• member of the NFL All-1970s team
• NFL 75th Anniversary team
• NFL 100th Anniversary team

It was the way OJ ran, a combination of speed, power, agility, instinct, elusiveness, and body expression that no one has come close to since. He had all the balletic grace of Barry Sanders and Gayle Sayers combined with the freight train power of Adrian Peterson and Eric Dickerson.

 

Those who leave OJ off their list of top 3 running backs either never saw him play in his prime or don't really understand football.

 

There was discussion upthread about Marcus Allen?

 

Marcus Allen was an imitation of OJ Simpson.

 

 

[Gugny]

Thurman was great.  He gets his due. 
 

He went to the Dolphins, so he can suck it. 

[PrimeTime101]

On 7/17/2025 at 4:40 PM, folz said:

Yes, obviously Thurman is in the Hall of Fame and on the Wall of Fame in Buffalo, but his star has seemed to fade in comparison to his contemporaries (Barry Sanders and Emmitt Smith). He almost never gets mentioned when speaking of great running backs and seems overshadowed by the other two backs of his era. Even on say Youtube, it is much harder to find good highlights/highlight videos of Thurm compared to the other guys. 

 

Now first let me get this out of the way. Barry was special...probably the best pure RB I ever watched (didn't get to see Jim Brown, and really only saw the tail-end of O.J.'s career, etc.). But, I have often said that Barry is the GOAT (or at least near the top of that conversation). So, I'm not trying to say that Thurman was better overall than Barry Sanders. Thurman obviously did not have Barry's breakaway speed, etc. I may be saying it about Emmitt Smith though. I always felt that that era was Barry, then, Thurman, then Smith. Always felt that Smith was a bit of a product of volume and having one of the greatest O-lines of all-time (and a TON of short goal-line carries). Always felt Thurman was the better of those two at least. But not sure if that is just my Bills' bias.

 

So, the negatives on Thurm, or why the other guys may be seen as higher: two big things I can see are touchdowns and longevity. Emmitt had 134 career TDs, Barry had 109 career TDs, and Thurman only had 84 career TDs---but generally, the Bills had way more weapons to spread the ball around too than the other two teams (save Dallas' SB years) and as I said, Emmitt got a lot of goal line carries (where in Buffalo, Kenny Davis stole a lot of goal-line touches from Thurm). Thurman's peak was about 8-9 years, Barry's peak was 10 years, and Emmitt's peak was about 12 years. And then, of course, Emmitt has three rings, while Thomas' team had the four failed SB attempts. Also, Thurman hit a wall in his career (as did that whole Bills team), to where his last 3-4 years in the league, he was not very productive, while Barry retired on top, and Emmitt's trail off was not as significant. But, if Thurm retired after 10 years like Barry did, he wouldn't have had that trail-off, 3 weak seasons to end his career. [I don't know, maybe I just answered my own question.]

 

But, to counter, from 1989 to 2000, each of the three RBs had 4 seasons each of being on top of the others in yards from scrimmage. Pretty evenly split in that category.

 

From 1989-1993* (for 5 seasons), here are their yards from scrimmage:

(*Emmitt came into the league in 1990, so for him I did 1990 to 1994, to even the comparison)

 

Thurman Thomas 9,595 yards and 55 TDs (4.48 yards/att)

Emmitt Smith 8,759 yards and 65 TDs (4.42 yards/att)

Barry Sanders 8, 288 yards and 60 TDs (4.76 yards/att)

 

So, for 5 years, you could argue that Thurman outperformed both of the others, or at worst was on par with the other two (5 years is half of Barry's career). Thurman easily would have been the SB MVP of SBXXV if Norwood's kick went through. He has a league MVP in 1991 (Barry and Emmitt also have 1 league MVP each). And Thurman was kind of the progenitor of the Marshall Faulk, Tomlinson-type of backs to come, and he led the NFL in yards from scrimmage for four consecutive years (that's a pretty big feat---and all four of those years, Barry was in the league, and Emmitt was around for 3 of those 4 years---so he did that with those guys being in the league).

 

Obviously Emmitt will be remembered because of the Super Bowls and the career rushing title, and Barry is remembered because he was magical---not knocking either guy, they both deserve their due. But I feel that Thurman should be seen as at least an equal to those guys (not better, but just as lauded for his own skillset and stats)...yet outside of Bills fans, most seem to forget him or not even really know about him (for younger fans). I don't know, what do you think? If you agree, why do you think Thurm gets forgotten? Should Thurman receive more laurels and be seen on par with those other two backs? I know he never won a SB (like Smith), but he at least made 4 Super Bowls, while Barry had a hard time even making the playoffs on Detroit, with only one playoff victory in his career (no fault of Barry's of course, that's on the Lions---but should Thurman be knocked for not winning Super Bowls then---I mean two of Emmitt's rings were against Thurman's team. IF, BIG IF, those games had gone the other way, would we see things differently? Is that all it is that changes how someone's career is viewed---one or two games in a team sport?). 

 

And as I said, Emmitt and Barry's peaks were both a bit longer than Thurman's peak, but even with that, Thurman is still #12 overall in NFL history in yards from scrimmage (Barry is #7, Emmitt is #2). Only 11 players in the history of the NFL have more yards than Thomas, yet he is so rarely talked about.

 

 

[Just an offseason thought/discussion after recently watching a highlight video of Thurman and remembering just how good he actually was. But, I realize this is old news/an old debate.]

 

 

[(aside) in looking up yards from scrimmage, I saw that Frank Gore retired with 19,985 yards. Couldn't the Jets have found 15 more yards for him his last season so he could hit that 20,000-yard mark? Would have been just the fourth player in history to do so.]

 

for starters good read. I think this article has a fair placement of best all-time runners... Although I agree with where the article puts Thurman.. there are some rankings that I do not agree with. but yea. Thurmon gets his due

 

https://athlonsports.com/nfl/25-greatest-running-backs-nfl-history

[BillsPride12]

If Norwood makes the kick not only do the Bills win Super Bowl 25 but Thurman wins the Super Bowl MVP as well.  Wonder if that happened how he would be looked back at today by NFL fans universally 

[Another Fan]

I tend to think Freeman McNeil was the most underrated running back of the 80s/early 90's....   I would say he was a just cut below Thurman.  Thurman at least made the HOF.  

12 minutes ago, BillsPride12 said:

If Norwood makes the kick not only do the Bills win Super Bowl 25 but Thurman wins the Super Bowl MVP as well.  Wonder if that happened how he would be looked back at today by NFL fans universally 

It's funny today I still thought about Super Bowl 25!  Must be a Bills fan thing to still sort of think of what could have.....

 

But then I thought if they win that game would history have changed where Josh Allen wouldn't have become a Bill?  

Edited July 19 by Another Fan

[Pete]

On 7/18/2025 at 2:15 PM, Pete said:

Isiah-Smerlis-Nelson formed the formidable Bermuda Triangle.  That 1980 Bills team was overachieving, tough team, and pleasant surprise.  Bills had Conrad Dobler- the dirtiest player in 1980 probably.

 

“The year was a great one, though it certainly wasn’t a season without controversy. Between, as Zimmerman termed it, “l’affaire DeLamielleure” and some disgruntled commentary from running back Terry Miller (who was upset about ceding playing time to a rookie in Cribbs), there were also some truly bizarre moments. 

After Ferguson sprained his ankle, guard Conrad Dobler—whom the Bills had acquired via trade in the offseason, waived, then re-signed prior to the start of the regular season—told members of the media that backup quarterback Dan Manucci had “no pocket presence” and that David Humm should play in Ferguson’s place. Dobler took umbrage with comments Manucci had made about his protection breaking down, and Dobler replied, “I timed it on the film and Manucci had 7.5 seconds—make that minutes—to get the ball off. After a while, you think, ‘Maybe it’s us...’ Then you see the films and you feel better.”

Even stranger still was a November fistfight between linebackers Jim Haslett and Isiah Robertson. The two were arrested at the Pierce Arrow nightclub at around 2 a.m. Haslett’s injury, a cut to his finger, was suffered when Robertson bit him. After charges were dropped, the two staged a friendly re-enactment of the fight where Haslett told Robertson, “Don’t bite too hard, now—it still hurts.”

The Bills used the “Talkin’ Proud” song as their theme that year, and as someone who grew up outside of Western New York, I’m still awed by the lead actress, Terry Licata-Braunstein, and her posture as she struts throughout. The song fed into Buffalo’s underdog mentality, but the team also sang another tune throughout training camp, one that was far less indicative of a team that was headed nowhere. Isaiah Robertson sang about the Bills heading to the Super Bowl early on in the year, and while some may have laughed, he was nearly right. 

One final tidbit about this merry band of underdogs. The team’s first-round draft choice that year did not make a start all season, and actually, he only started three games in his first three seasons. However, when that player entered the starting lineup in 1983, he would go on to start every game for the team until Week 8 of the 1993 season. That man, Jim Ritcher, is also the only player who holds the distinction of having played on both the 1980 team and all four of Buffalo’s Super Bowl squads in the 1990s.

Talk proud about these underdogs, fellow Bills fans. Forty years later, they still deserve it.”

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2020/5/19/21262126/1980-buffalo-bills-an-underdog-story-ben-williams-joe-cribbs-joe-ferguson-jim-ritcher-miami-dolphins

 

 

 

 

 

• BO!

 

 

[BillsPride12]

1 hour ago, Another Fan said:

I tend to think Freeman McNeil was the most underrated running back of the 80s/early 90's....   I would say he was a just cut below Thurman.  Thurman at least made the HOF.  

It's funny today I still thought about Super Bowl 25!  Must be a Bills fan thing to still sort of think of what could have.....

 

But then I thought if they win that game would history have changed where Josh Allen wouldn't have become a Bill?  

Dude Bills fans have been thinking about what could have been with that game for the last 35 years 😂😂😂

I think the only way to put the nail on that coffin is if these Allen Bills teams finally get us over the hump and get us one

[Pete]

Does Cookie get his due?  What a player!  What a character!

[NoSaint]

Not the greatest back from his team (OJ); or in his era (Barry)

 

If you write the book of best backs by team or by decade, he doesn’t get his own chapter 

 

but he’s in the hall and still getting some recognition decades later. He may deserve a little more but he’s not drastically off in a league that has a lot of special athletes 

[Nihilarian]

Thurman was like the Rodney Dangerfield (no respect) of RBs as even in his hay day as mostly everyone talked about the (K-Gun) offense or the (No Huddle). What most fans didn't realize was the Buffalo Bills ran the ball more than they threw it back then. QB Jim Kelly walked on water to most fans and yet they threw to setup the pass game.

 

The Bills would get Thurman working and the opposing LBers would move up to stop the run and then Kelly would throw over them to Reed, Lofton, Beebe. Also Thurman was amazing catching passes out of the backfield... He was Marshall Faulk before Faulk. 

 

1988 in Thurman's rookie year Buffalo 454 passing attempts vs 528 rushing attempts. That season the Bills had Rob Riddick and Ronnie Harmon as his backups while Riddick punched it in the endzone for 12 TDs. The Buffalo OC was Jim Ringo...anyone recall that name? Buffalo also went to the AFC Championship game in Cincinnati that year. I do believe that the offense they ran that season was the "Air Coryell" after the Chargers HC who mentored Dan Fouts in San Diego.

In 1989 478 pass attempts vs 532 rush attempts. Ted Marchibroda became the Buffalo OC and installed the run and shoot. Thurman had 1913 yards from scrimmage that season. 

 

1990 the Buffalo Bills the highest scoring offense in the league that year. 425 pass attempts vs 479 rush attempts and Thurman had 1829 yards from Scrimmage. 

 

In 1991 the passing offense finally overtook the run offense 516 pass attempts vs 505 rush attempts. Thurman had 2038 yards from scrimmage that season. Nobody better!