McDermott not in Top 10 of NFL coaches per PFF.

[Einstein]

 

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

I take your point about McDermott's 9-7 vs Marrone and Mularkey's 9-7 seasons. Particularly Mularkey's actually. Marrone's was an 8-8 masquerading as a 9-7 by beating the Patriots when the Bills were already eliminated and the Patriots were locked in on playoff seeding. There WAS an element of the Bills getting some breaks their way in 2017 that the tiebreakers favoured them and the Bengals pulled off the comeback in Baltimore. 

 

Yeah, exactly.

 

And as I said before, I don’t hold anything against McD for 2017. He did a fine job. I just don’t give him huge kudos for going 9-7 against an absolutely awful schedule and falling ass-backward into the playoffs.

[Pecos Bills]

Stefanski flat out sucks, Campbell is pretty similar to McDermott but with a shorter tenure, and Jim Harbaugh is a cheater.  Hard to argue with the rest though due to Super Bowl stats.

[sunshynman]

18 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

They should have gotten rid of him for Jim Harbaugh two years ago.  He's Dungy 2.0 with the best QB in franchise history history who can't win the big game. Ironically if Allens wins one SuperBowl, then McDermott probably makes the HOF. If Bills don't make the SuperBowl this year, he hopefully is fired.

All we can hope for is a SuperBowl win or an embarrassing playoff loss to move on. We are stuck in purgatory right now. The games are fun to watch, but failing to win a championship with the best QB in the NFL is inexcusable. I know this has been argued ad nauseum but many of us only care about a SuperBowl Championship now. Playoff appearances just aren't good enough.

People said the same thing about Reeves with Elway and Schottenhemier with his various superstar players and playoff failures. Reeves at least made it to the SuperBowl.  They even said the same thing about Shula with Marino. 

 

All that said, let's just play the games and see what happens in January. 

 

Regardless of SB wins McD is currently a top 10 coach. A SB appearance gets him in the top 5. A SB win puts him in the hall of fame.

 

Bills fans will never be fully happy without the SB win. Me included. But we all know, that if we win the SB this year, at the moment McD and Allen are hosting up the Lombardi; the negative Nancys on here will say the need to win again next year or it means nothing!

Edited 4 hours ago by sunshynman
'

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

You and I have had this conversation before. We disagree greatly. You value the players on that team wayyyyy more than I do

 

And that’s ignoring the fact that McD is the reason those players were gone in the first place.

 

I don't ignore the second part of that, you just omitted to quote it in your reply. The 2015 team was stacked. McDermott wins 10 or 11 games with that roster. 

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, bigK14094 said:

Buffalo has seen a lot of bad coaches.  McD is not one of those bad ones.  He is in the top 10 best in the league, and perhaps the top 5.  Bills:  NO action required.

ya I'm a big McD fan, always defended him on here but I just can't take the post season collapses

 

Being a Knicks fan as well, I hated the Tibs firing,  it'll be curious to see how that works out

 

Even though I was a baby at the time, I don't want another 4 falls of Buffalo type documentary out there in 20 years

Edited 3 hours ago by JerseyBills

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Feel like this is 90% of McDs resume.

 

I think he allows Josh Allen to be exciting though. Justin Herbert for all his flaws used to be exciting. Harbaugh turned him into one of the most boring QBs in football. The Bills are a fun watch. The Chargers made me want to rake my eyes out. 

 

But if your point is so far McDermott has proved himself a turn around specialist not a championship winner, of course that is true. 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't ignore the second part of that, you just omitted to quote it in your reply. The 2015 team was stacked. McDermott wins 10 or 11 games with that roster. 

To get you back on track, do you not think Stefanski wins 10 with that roster? Or Tomlin or Harbaugh?

[HappyDays]

This is a huge year for McDermott. To me it should be looked at as his defining season - either he can get us to the ultimate goal or he can't. Short of our IR wire looking like the Lions last year, there can't be any excuses.

 

Last offseason we took our medicine and took a purposeful step back as a means of opening the second championship window. That window is now wide open. This offseason we have hired new defensive coaches with different philosophical backgrounds. We re-signed 3 of our own defensive cornerstones. We spent most of our free agency money on defensive players. We spent all of our premium draft picks on defensive players.

 

So the message from the team is loud and clear - all of these investments presumably were necessary to help take McDermott's defense to a championship level. If after all of that we suffer yet another playoff loss to KC where the defense barely puts up any resistance, that has to be the final signal that McDermott isn't going to get it done. Ever.

 

We also should be competing for the #1 seed this year. McDermott has to find a way to avoid the team's annual 2-4 game slump which perenially keeps us out of that conversation. It's not gonna get any easier than 10 games combined against a weak AFC East and NFC South.

 

So get the #1 seed. If you don't, okay, the defense still needs to perform against KC in January. If neither of those things happen, then what is the reason for optimism that McDermott ever gets it done? I'm so over the debate on what he's done in the past. Both sides have made their points. My hope is that everyone including McDermott optimists are at least willing to draw a line in the sand on the team's performance this year.

 

Edited 4 hours ago by HappyDays

[Gregg]

4 minutes ago, sunshynman said:

Regardless of SB wins McD is currently a top 10 coach. A SB appearance gets him in the top 5. A SB win puts him in the hall of fame.

 

Bills fans will never be fully happy without the SB win. Me included. But we all know, that if we win the SB this year, at the moment McD and Allen are hosting up the Lombardi; the negative Nancys on here will say the need to win again next year or it means nothing!

 

Anyone who would be a negative Nancy after a Bills Super Bowl win should just give up on sports. If a fan can't be happy coming off a championship season, then what is the point of being a fan.

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, FireChans said:

 

If Payton was coach in 2020 to now, do I think we would’ve done better? Absolutely. But I wasn’t ready to fire McD then and can’t really hold that against anyone.

 

But on what basis? Payton has coached 9 seasons with an elite QB since he won his Superbowl. He's had some stacked rosters in that time too. And he has lost some playoff games to clearly inferior football teams with clearly inferior Quarterbacks. McDermott hasn't done that. 

 

Maybe some of you are like "year Payton might have lost in the playoffs to Phil Rivers and Mason Rudolph, but one time he'd have found one of his genius gameplans (and he can be a genius gamplanner) and a way to get past the Chiefs with Allen and that's all that counts... so we'd underachieve in other years but we'd get to the top of the mountain that one time." That isn't an unreasonable supposition but it is nothing like a sure bet. 

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

To get you back on track, do you not think Stefanski wins 10 with that roster? Or Tomlin or Harbaugh?

 

With the 2015 roster? Yes. Tomlin and Harbaugh definitely do. Stefanski I'm less sure but possibly. 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think he allows Josh Allen to be exciting though. Justin Herbert for all his flaws used to be exciting. Harbaugh turned him into one of the most boring QBs in football. The Bills are a fun watch. The Chargers made me want to rake my eyes out. 

 

But if your point is so far McDermott has proved himself a turn around specialist not a championship winner, of course that is true. 

The 2017 Bills were just as boring if not moreso imo. 
 

As far as allowing Josh Allen to be exciting, McD has been very clear that his ideal offense is taking the ball out of Josh’s hands much more than we have previously seen. 
 

In fairness to Harbaugh, he has Roman who has always struggled with building a modern passing offense, and absolutely dreadful WRs outside of Ladd. 
 

They went back to the WR well again this year and we’ll see if that makes any difference.

 

I also think there’s an argument to turn around a team in the modern NFL, you need buy-in equity. The chargers winning ugly into the playoffs probably went a long way in that locker room, not dissimilar to how McD was viewed after 17. He has now cemented it as his team imo.

10 minutes ago, sunshynman said:

Regardless of SB wins McD is currently a top 10 coach. A SB appearance gets him in the top 5%. A SB win puts him in the hall of fame.

 

Bills fans will never be fully happy without the SB win. Me included. But we all know, that if we win the SB this year, at the moment McD and Allen are hosting up the Lombardi; the negative Nancys on here will say the need to again win next year or it means nothing!

The negative Nancy’s lol.

 

if McD wins a Super Bowl, him and Beane can stay until they die for all I care.

[billsfan714]

I will say it until we move on from him, he is Marty Shottenheimer.   I dont need to keep seeing groundhog day to know how it ends.  It ends 2-3 steps short of the goal.   13 seconds showed me he's not the sharpest tool in the shed.    i've said it before it was coaching malpractice, and that was with a TV timeout to prepare for the final plays.  Everything you shouldn't of done, he did, from the KO to playing outside contain prevent D.   It's always his side of the ball specialty that comes up small in big moments.    I dont want to see 10 years of our defense getting pushed around in the playoffs.    Eagles stopped the Chiefs 9 times in the superbowl, McD has done it 9 times in 4 playoff games.   It can be done, just this guy cant do it.  I think Reid/Spags vs McD is a serious mismatch.

Edited 4 hours ago by billsfan714

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Maybe some of you are like "year Payton might have lost in the playoffs to Phil Rivers and Mason Rudolph, but one time he'd have found one of his genius gameplans (and he can be a genius gamplanner) and a way to get past the Chiefs with Allen and that's all that counts... so we'd underachieve in other years but we'd get to the top of the mountain that one time." That isn't an unreasonable supposition but it is nothing like a sure bet

Yeah that’s basically it. 
 

I’m not sure anyone called it a sure bet, but I’m pretty confident that Payton doesn’t go 0-4 against Reid/Mahomes. I do think he’s a very good coach, even if he’s a bit of an arrogant ass.

 

I’d probably trade the win over Bo Nix for getting past the Chiefs once this decade. 

[Royale with Cheese]

23 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

 

Yeah, exactly.

 

And as I said before, I don’t hold anything against McD for 2017. He did a fine job. I just don’t give him huge kudos for going 9-7 against an absolutely awful schedule and falling ass-backward into the playoffs.

 

So you believe our 2017 had much more talent than teams like the Falcons and Chiefs, who both made the playoffs that year in 2017....were to be easy wins?

Edited 4 hours ago by Royale with Cheese

[billsfan714]

15 minutes ago, sunshynman said:

Regardless of SB wins McD is currently a top 10 coach. A SB appearance gets him in the top 5. A SB win puts him in the hall of fame.

 

Bills fans will never be fully happy without the SB win. Me included. But we all know, that if we win the SB this year, at the moment McD and Allen are hosting up the Lombardi; the negative Nancys on here will say the need to win again next year or it means nothing!

OMG in what world are you living.   If McD won the superbowl they will name streets after him and he will coach here for life.

[HappyDays]

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Justin Herbert for all his flaws used to be exciting. Harbaugh turned him into one of the most boring QBs in football.

 

Last year's offensive scheme was about making Allen's play more boring, no? I don't mean that in a bad way. Raising the floor was an admirable goal and the results spoke for themselves. I think Justin Herbert's problem is Justin Herbert. He is missing that spark of pure will that defines the top 4 QBs. That mentality in critical moments that he will make it happen all on his own if he has to. I don't think Harbaugh took that spark out of him, he just never had it to begin with. What Harbaugh did last year is make the best out of a horrid group of skill players and a QB that isn't uniquely talented enough to overcome it.

[Alphadawg7]

30 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

If Sean Payton were here since 2017, do you agree that they’d have at least 1 Super Bowl? He would have been to Allen what Reid is to Mahomes.

 

No.  Is it possible?  Sure - is it assured, not at all.  

 

The only year Sean won a SB or even reached one was when the Saints were riding an emotional high from the Katrina disaster and their defense was actually making plays.  Outside that, he struggled to even consistently make the playoffs with Prime Brees, Kamara, Graham, Thomas, Colston, and a load of other offensive firepower and talent through the years.  The amount of high end or elite weapons Payton had compared to the Bills is a wide gap, and yet Sean and all his offensive genius missed the playoffs several times or got bounced early.

 

Sean missed the playoffs 6 times with Brees in his 15 seasons there (16 but he was suspended 1 in 2012).  

In half the seasons in NO that he coached (not counting the 2012 suspended season) he won single digit games of 9 or less.  

He missed the playoffs 3 straight seasons with prime Brees.

 

Again, the bulk of Seans time there included an all time Great in Brees in his prime and a lot of elite weapons around him yet the results were not always stellar and even in their best seasons were losing in the first or 2nd round, including winning 11 games and losing in the first round to Seattle who got in with a losing record with only 7 wins.  

 

So he isn't the fix it all savior I think some see him as.  If it wasn't for the one SB win, his overall record would be much less impressive and quite honestly, he probably wouldn't have kept his job after 2012 suspension and would have also probably been fired sometime during the stretch where he missed the playoffs 3 straight years with prime Brees.  Imagine McD missing the playoffs 3 straight years with Allen.  

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The 2017 Bills were just as boring if not moreso imo. 
 

As far as allowing Josh Allen to be exciting, McD has been very clear that his ideal offense is taking the ball out of Josh’s hands much more than we have previously seen. 
 

In fairness to Harbaugh, he has Roman who has always struggled with building a modern passing offense, and absolutely dreadful WRs outside of Ladd. 
 

They went back to the WR well again this year and we’ll see if that makes any difference.

 

I also think there’s an argument to turn around a team in the modern NFL, you need buy-in equity. The chargers winning ugly into the playoffs probably went a long way in that locker room, not dissimilar to how McD was viewed after 17. He has now cemented it as his team imo.

The negative Nancy’s lol.

 

if McD wins a Super Bowl, him and Beane can stay until they die for all I care.

 

The 2017 Bills were as boring, agreed. They had Tyrod Taylor. Nobody takes the ball out of his QBs hands as much as Jim Harbaugh even when is QB is good. He could have Dan Marino and only pass it 11 times a game. Dinosaur. 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

No.  Is it possible?  Sure - is it assured, not at all.  

 

The only year Sean won a SB or even reached one was when the Saints were riding an emotional high from the Katrina disaster and their defense was actually making plays.  Outside that, he struggled to even consistently make the playoffs with Prime Brees, Kamara, Graham, Thomas, Colston, and a load of other offensive firepower and talent through the years.  The amount of high end or elite weapons Payton had compared to the Bills is a wide gap, and yet Sean and all his offensive genius missed the playoffs several times or got bounced early.

 

Sean missed the playoffs 6 times with Brees in his 15 seasons there (16 but he was suspended 1 in 2012).  

In half the seasons in NO that he coached (not counting the 2012 suspended season) he won single digit games of 9 or less.  

He missed the playoffs 3 straight seasons with prime Brees.

 

Again, the bulk of Seans time there included an all time Great in Brees in his prime and a lot of elite weapons around him yet the results were not always stellar and even in their best seasons were losing in the first or 2nd round, including winning 11 games and losing in the first round to Seattle who got in with a losing record with only 7 wins.  

 

So he isn't the fix it all savior I think some see him as.  If it wasn't for the one SB win, his overall record would be much less impressive and quite honestly, he probably wouldn't have kept his job after 2012 suspension and would have also probably been fired sometime during the stretch where he missed the playoffs 3 straight years with prime Brees.  Imagine McD missing the playoffs 3 straight years with Allen.  

 

 

 

I agree somewhat but, the Saints won in 2009 (Katrina was in 2006) and they never missed the playoffs with Brees after drafting Kamara (the 2017 Saints draft is like an All-Time class though, probably one of the best in their franchise history).

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Yeah that’s basically it. 
 

I’m not sure anyone called it a sure bet, but I’m pretty confident that Payton doesn’t go 0-4 against Reid/Mahomes. I do think he’s a very good coach, even if he’s a bit of an arrogant ass.

 

I’d probably trade the win over Bo Nix for getting past the Chiefs once this decade. 

 

I think Payton is a very good coach too. But his playoff record since he won his Superbowl is atrocious. Not just a slight underachievement. If McDermott had lost to the teams and QBs Payton lost to with Drew Brees under centre he'd already have been fired IMO. 

 

I get the lightening in a bottle genius gameplan theory. Because Payton is capable of that, no doubt. But my word he loses some games you just cannot lose in the post season. I think McDermott has one of those - 13 seconds.