Erhardt Perkins offense

[SoonerBillsFan]

4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

We are going into year 8 in the EP offense..

 

Which is designed around simplicity and the ability to change roles easily 

 

There's a lot of talk between the EP, West Coast, or the coryell system... Which basically are verbiage systems today 

 

There is a West Coast playbook but when people talk about West Coast they're usually talking about the verbiage system.. how the plays come in

 

The difference is how simple the EP is compared to the complexity of a West Coast verbiage 

 

A typical West Coast call might sound like this. ..

 

Green right x shift to viper right 382 x stick looky ..  and that is a small play call a lot going on .. line calls, receiver calls and a motion 

 

The EP condenses it 

 

F right 72 ghost/tosser .. entire play script..n offensive line wide receivers and running backs know what to do 

 

There's a reason why Bill belichick liked the EP.. and you can flip rolls very easily 

 

It allows for mastery of multiple wide receiver positions and you get out of the play clock sooner 

 

Today's football lesson why the EP is very modern and Josh should even be taking more and more steps being ingrained in the system for so long 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

[Buffalo716]

22 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

A system like the west coast is heavy heavy verbiage 

 

10 15 20 + word play calls 

 

The EP condenses the play called to 5 6 7 word calls 

 

If Josh says ghost tosser... It means the same thing whether they're in 11 personnel or 12 or 21 

 

All the wide receivers whether they're in the slot or at the x know the route combinations just by ghost tosser ...  it's always the same route combinations

 

In the West Coast system.. that route combination out of those three different personnel's are going to have massive different calls... It condenses plays between your personnel groupings

 

So the bills can run the same route concept out of five different looks... Instead of wide receivers listening to 20 words for their role..  something as simple as ghost tosser tells all the pass catchers what they need to do

 

 

Edited 16 hours ago by Buffalo716

[Draconator]

Ghost tosser sounds like the name of an upcoming Discovery Channel Paranormal TV Series.

[Richard Noggin]

2 minutes ago, Draconator said:

Ghost tosser sounds like the name of an upcoming Discovery Channel Paranormal TV Series.

 

Or something some of you pervs have already watched online. 

[Draconator]

2 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Or something some of you pervs have already watched online. 

Guilty

[Buffalo716]

9 minutes ago, Draconator said:

Ghost tosser sounds like the name of an upcoming Discovery Channel Paranormal TV Series.

So in an 11 personnel 

 

Ghost tosser is going to tell both sides of pass catchers their route combination 

 

F right 72 Ghost tosser would refer to the flanker right... Ghost would be their route combination 

 

So ghost is going to tell the people on the right side of the formation in 11 personnel their route combination

 

Flanker , 9 route... Y runs out... Running back flat 

 

Tosser refers to the backside.. x and z dual backside slants 

 

But you can flip that to f left 73 ghost tosser in any personnel

 

Edited 15 hours ago by Buffalo716

[Buffalo716]

Simple verbiage... With mirrored play calls allow streamline play calling through all your personal groupings

 

We can run this out of 11 or 12 personnel streamlessly

Edited 15 hours ago by Buffalo716

[Beck Water]

5 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

For sure 

 

A guy like Ryan Fitzpatrick thrived in a West Coast system 

 

Onscript he was literally tremendous when he was on fire he was one of the best in the world... Off script he quickly turned to meh

 

Except when he took off and ran and then he had some skill 

 

? when did Ryan Fitzpatrick play in a West Coast system?  What did Bill O'Brien run in Houston - thought that was E-P like?

 

Fitz best season was with the Jets...under Chan Gailey....E-P system

[Buffalo716]

9 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

? when did Ryan Fitzpatrick play in a West Coast system?  What did Bill O'Brien run in Houston - thought that was E-P like?

 

Fitz best season was with the Jets...under Chan Gailey....E-P system

He didn't play under a traditional full West Coast system 

 

But as I said originally West Coast is a verbage system and a style of offense 

 

Chan gailey preferred EP verbage but instilled a lot of spread West Coast elements to his offense... The quick passing game was an extension of the run.. the screen game was an extension of the run .. he like a zone system like WC... He did not use West Coast verbage though

 

he was one of the more modern offensive coordinators to take principles of the West Coast offense without the verbiage, and mold it into an EP offense 

 

But it had a lot of West Coast principles, besides the verbiage

 

Most modern offenses have West Coast principles built into them now.. but not all of them have the verbage which is specifically what I was talking about in this thread 

 

The heavy verbiage of the West Coast offense is tough even on professional players and they have a lot to think about.. the EP verbiage simplifies everything to a rudimentary point

 

So gailey had EP verbiage, and a modern offense that was modeled after West Coast coryell spread everything.. I don't think you could actually put a name on his offensive style... he really was a very good offensive coordinator

Edited 15 hours ago by Buffalo716

[Buffalo716]

@Beck Water

 

I have not checked but I think fitz may have played in a true West Coast system his first couple years in St Louis 

 

Didn't really play much but I think he was in one early 

 

But the west coast verbiage system is very distinct... And it's a mouthful... A college kid who has been reading plays off of big boards on the sideline for years has a super hard time adjusting to something like that... I think Josh being in the EP has really helped them because he doesn't have to do as much thinking as say Jon gruden quarterback

Edited 14 hours ago by Buffalo716

[BullBuchanan]

5 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yes but that's not always  the case 

 

John elway one of his two super bowls with shanahan in the West Coast offense.. and elway had the ability to play on script or he was the best improviser of his time

They switched offensive philosophy after winning the first one?

[Beck Water]

8 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

@Beck Water

 

I have not checked but I think fitz may have played in a true West Coast system his first couple years in St Louis 

 

Didn't really play much but I think he was in one early 

 

But the west coast verbiage system is very distinct... And it's a mouthful... A college kid who has been reading plays off of big boards on the sideline for years has a super hard time adjusting to something like that... I think Josh being in the EP has really helped them because he doesn't have to do as much thinking as say Jon gruden quarterback

 

They called the offense "Air Coryell".  Steve Fairchild and then Greg Olson were the OCs.  It was the descendent of the "Greatest Show on Turf" offense Martz took to two Superbowls. 

In its successful implementation, it was built o a vertical passing game opened up by a strong run game (though Marshall Faulk had a lot of receiving yards).  In their SB year, Isaac Bruce and Torrey Holt both rocked 15 Y/R The QB had to know exactly where he was gonna go with the ball and be willing to stand in the pocket and take a hit to get it there. 

But what kind of verbiage they used, pffft can't tell you.

[boyst]

@Beck Water is an expert on this stuff.

[Shaw66]

The other thing that nobody has mentioned in this thread is that there is a lot of preparation during the week for the more spontaneous playmaking that spins off these systems. I think particularly the system the Bills run. When you have a guy like Allen or Mahomes who is talented and who has played in the same system for multiple years, during the week the coaches are talking to him and he's talking to the coaches about opportunities they see on the field. When the defense is doing one thing or another they will agree that the quarterback has the option to modify what's going on the field to take advantage of opportunities.

 

The run pass option is the formal embodiment of that kind of play, where the quarterback more or less on his own simply chooses to take a different opportunity in the play, even though the running back and the entire offensive line is executing something different. Something different. Occasionally after games, the more experienced quarterbacks, including Manning and Brady, will talk about the fact that a play that worked during the game was actually a wrinkle that they had talked about during the week of practice, a wrinkle that the quarterback was free to take advantage of without anyone having actually called for that play. 

 

I remember having heard a a Patriots linebacker describe one important play that the defense made in a significant game during their run. It was something like a third and seven and they needed a stop. This guy and one other defender, after the defensive play was called, acknowledged that the better way to run the play would be to switch assignments. They did it, and they got the stop. The interviewer said to the guy, "I bet Belichick was pissed off about that." The guy responded, "Not at all, that's the kind of thing that Belichick expects players to be able to do."

[ColoradoBills]

4 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I remember having heard a a Patriots linebacker describe one important play that the defense made in a significant game during their run. It was something like a third and seven and they needed a stop. This guy and one other defender, after the defensive play was called, acknowledged that the better way to run the play would be to switch assignments. They did it, and they got the stop. The interviewer said to the guy, "I bet Belichick was pissed off about that." The guy responded, "Not at all, that's the kind of thing that Belichick expects players to be able to do."

 

Which brings me to my questions.  How much is the players responsibility and how much on the coaches during a game.

Also, specifically concerning the "everybody eats" scheme of Brady's, how much influence (play by play) does he have and how

does he call it.  If he has little influence than it's all on Josh and the players.

 

Of course, that holds true on both sides of the ball.

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

They called the offense "Air Coryell".  Steve Fairchild and then Greg Olson were the OCs.  It was the descendent of the "Greatest Show on Turf" offense Martz took to two Superbowls. 

In its successful implementation, it was built o a vertical passing game opened up by a strong run game (though Marshall Faulk had a lot of receiving yards).  In their SB year, Isaac Bruce and Torrey Holt both rocked 15 Y/R The QB had to know exactly where he was gonna go with the ball and be willing to stand in the pocket and take a hit to get it there. 

But what kind of verbiage they used, pffft can't tell you.

 

Fairchild might have been more of an Air Coryell guy but Greg Olsen is a pure West Coast Offense coach. I don't pretend to remember the 2006 Rams but it is what Olsen has run everywhere else he has been.

[3rdand12]

15 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

A system like the west coast is heavy heavy verbiage 

 

10 15 20 + word play calls 

 

The EP condenses the play called to 5 6 7 word calls 

 

If Josh says ghost tosser... It means the same thing whether they're in 11 personnel or 12 or 21 

 

All the wide receivers whether they're in the slot or at the x know the route combinations just by ghost tosser ...  it's always the same route combinations

 

In the West Coast system.. that route combination out of those three different personnel's are going to have massive different calls... It condenses plays between your personnel groupings

 

So the bills can run the same route concept out of five different looks... Instead of wide receivers listening to 20 words for their role..  something as simple as ghost tosser tells all the pass catchers what they need to do

 

 

Which is what please? Ghost tosser ? please be detailed

And I can safely assume Josh developed into the Field General  a few years ago, and more so last 2 years.

I think one of the questions is still , how does Josh call out the hot read and flipping to the 3rd or 4th receiver ?

I would like to think everyone knows their job pre snap.

 Which means Josh needs to understand option might have and the eyes to see who is breaking or separating

 

 btw I love this OP 😍

 and thanks for good dialogue/ and educatin'

 

oops I jumped ahead and can se on page two your more detailed definitions

Thanks again 716

 

Edited 1 hour ago by 3rdand12

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

The other thing that nobody has mentioned in this thread is that there is a lot of preparation during the week for the more spontaneous playmaking that spins off these systems. I think particularly the system the Bills run. When you have a guy like Allen or Mahomes who is talented and who has played in the same system for multiple years, during the week the coaches are talking to him and he's talking to the coaches about opportunities they see on the field. When the defense is doing one thing or another they will agree that the quarterback has the option to modify what's going on the field to take advantage of opportunities.

 

The run pass option is the formal embodiment of that kind of play, where the quarterback more or less on his own simply chooses to take a different opportunity in the play, even though the running back and the entire offensive line is executing something different. Something different. Occasionally after games, the more experienced quarterbacks, including Manning and Brady, will talk about the fact that a play that worked during the game was actually a wrinkle that they had talked about during the week of practice, a wrinkle that the quarterback was free to take advantage of without anyone having actually called for that play. 

 

I remember having heard a a Patriots linebacker describe one important play that the defense made in a significant game during their run. It was something like a third and seven and they needed a stop. This guy and one other defender, after the defensive play was called, acknowledged that the better way to run the play would be to switch assignments. They did it, and they got the stop. The interviewer said to the guy, "I bet Belichick was pissed off about that." The guy responded, "Not at all, that's the kind of thing that Belichick expects players to be able to do."

Good post 66 !

 I might well think McDermott expects the same type of intelligence from his Captains etc.

And am sure they prep for such.

 Freedom in the game seems to be what the EP method allows. See read  adjust and play fast

 Puts a lot on Allen to be aware and then call. But he is certainly capable and growing

[SoonerBillsFan]

15 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Or something some of you pervs have already watched online. 

I can neither confirm nor deny any allegations...