Since 2020 - highest scoring offense and fewest points allowed defense

[LABILLBACKER]

5 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Yeah this comes up every few months, it is amazing they have not even been to a SB. The defense has issues in playoff games no matter what the regular season has been...........

That's also a great point. Since 2020 we've played in 12 playoff games. We've given up a grand total of 290 points.  Thats 24.16 per game. Josh 9 times out of 10 will carry this team offensively and hold up his end of the bargain.  But once we stop playing afce teams and the playoff caliber rises, our defense falters. It’s ok to enjoy our regular season magnificence.  I'm just disappointed our defense has yet to rise up other than one 17-3 Ravens game.  Is this a form of wasting Josh’s "once in a generation" talents?....yes it is.

[appoo]

In this thread which is more important: The Journey or the Destination

51 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

That's also a great point. Since 2020 we've played in 12 playoff games. We've given up a grand total of 290 points.  Thats 24.16 per game. Josh 9 times out of 10 will carry this team offensively and hold up his end of the bargain.  But once we stop playing afce teams and the playoff caliber rises, our defense falters. It’s ok to enjoy our regular season magnificence.  I'm just disappointed our defense has yet to rise up other than one 17-3 Ravens game.  Is this a form of wasting Josh’s "once in a generation" talents?....yes it is.

What's the average when not playing Pat Mahomes

[folz]

Sorry to get a bit philosophical on a football board, but...

 

Let me ask this. Is a person's life meaningless unless they reach the top of their profession and are rich and famous? i.e., "win the Super Bowl" according to society's  standards.

 

Or do they instead look back on life and see all of the fun and loving interactions with their friends and family; births, weddings, small achievements by you, your spouse, or children. Do they take pride in learning and growing and becoming a better person and helping their children to do the same, pride in overcoming the obstacles and adversity that they've faced, the enjoyment of holidays and parties and vacations and great conversations, and intimate moments with the one they love, etc., etc. What is more important in the end?

 

My second question is, when we win the Super Bowl, what then? Yes, it would be an awesome, ecstatic moment that we will all remember for a long, long time. A weight lifted off our collective shoulders. But then what? Do you stop watching football? Do you not care if the Bills stink then for the rest of our lives because at least we got one? Or does the narrative become, well we've only won one Super Bowl with Josh as our QB. A good GM/Coach would have won 3-4 with Josh. But, how does it really change how you watch the following 10-20 years of Bills games? I could care less about bragging rights, etc. And of course, that stuff fades with time anyhow, just ask the Jets. Whenever they say, "well at least our franchise has won a Super Bowl," others will respond, "yeah like almost 60 years ago, you weren't even born, so who cares." What we will remember is that moment, and that memory of sharing it with our families and fellow Bills' fans. But then the next season, it's just striving for that same goal again---and who knows how long it will take to do it again?

 

And we have actually had tons of those types of moments, just not in the Super Bowl. But honestly, I wouldn't trade being a Bills fan for all of the Lombardis in New England and K.C. Why? Because it hasn't been easy. The life lessons that have come along with being a Bills fan (resiliency, perseverance, overcoming adversity, loyalty, compassion, true teamwork, etc.) are unquantifiable. And because of all of the heartbreak, our small victories can be as or more exhilarating or precious than those other teams reaching the peak.

 

Let's go back to New Year's Eve 2017/2018. The drought ends. One of the best New Year's Eves of my life because of it. The joy and celebration we felt and shared with the team and Bills fans all around the country/world (just for making the playoffs) was probably as high as any team's secondary Super Bowl win (if it wasn't their first SB, or first in a long time). I mean how much true elation was there for say New England's 4th or 5th Super Bowl? Of course you're happy to win it again (especially if it was an exciting season), but the emotions felt are no where near the peak of that 1st one...or probably of making the playoffs after a 17-year drought.

 

How about the rally in Buffalo after the first Super Bowl loss in the 90s. When the entire crowd cheered for Scott Norwood to come to the podium (after having "lost" the game for the team...as many other fans would see it). Still brings a tear to my eye. And Marv reciting the "Sir Andrew" poem to the team, after the SB loss, about getting back up to fight another day.

 

51-3. I don't even need to say any more and most of you know what I'm talking about. And those that are old enough to have experienced it know. I was in the stands that day and I will never forget the party that was going on in that stadium for the entire second half. Or running through the parking lot after, high-fiving every other Bills fan.

 

The Damar Hamlin incident. How the team and community rallied together for our fallen comrade and grew closer because of it. All of the charitable donations made by Bills fans (Andy Dalton, Lamar Jackson, Damar, etc.)

 

I could go on and on...but you all know. We have had a lot of joy and a lot of heartbreak on this journey with our beloved team, but isn't that life?

 

And in the current era, beyond breaking the drought, we have enjoyed 93 wins (almost 65% of our games), we have dominated our division rivals, scored the most points and have the 2nd most wins last five years, getting to watch an All-time great QB---Amari lateraling the ball back to Josh for a TD in the snow vs. SF, Josh hurdling Anthony Barr to win as a 17-point underdogs, the perfect New England playoff game, the epic battles with KC (reg season and playoffs), etc., etc. I don't know about you, but I have enjoyed it all, Super Bowl or not.   

 

Yes, we all want to see the Bills win a Super Bowl, but if it all seems meaningless unless they do, then maybe it's time to get off the ride. One person can look at a roller coaster and say, that's dumb it just goes around in a circle and you don't get anywhere, so they walk away. While another person gets on and relishes the sensation of every up and down, every twist and turn. 

 

"I may be going to hell in a bucket, but at least I'm enjoying the ride." -The Grateful Dead

 

 

 

Edited Monday at 09:48 PM by folz

[LABILLBACKER]

20 minutes ago, appoo said:

In this thread which is more important: The Journey or the Destination

What's the average when not playing Pat Mahomes

If the emphasis is on the journey then there's not much point in a destination.  Would you like me to remove Burrows numbers too?  I'm sure with enough finagling, we can get that 24 down to 19. 

[Mister Defense]

2 hours ago, folz said:

Sorry to get a bit philosophical on a football board, but...

 

Let me ask this. Is a person's life meaningless unless they reach the top of their profession and are rich and famous? i.e., "win the Super Bowl" according to society's  standards.

 

Or do they instead look back on life and see all of the fun and loving interactions with their friends and family; births, weddings, small achievements by you, your spouse, or children. Do they take pride in learning and growing and becoming a better person and helping their children to do the same, pride in overcoming the obstacles and adversity that they've faced, the enjoyment of holidays and parties and vacations and great conversations, and intimate moments with the one they love, etc., etc. What is more important in the end?

 

My second question is, when we win the Super Bowl, what then? Yes, it would be an awesome, ecstatic moment that we will all remember for a long, long time. A weight lifted off our collective shoulders. But then what? Do you stop watching football? Do you not care if the Bills stink then for the rest of our lives because at least we got one? Or does the narrative become, well we've only won one Super Bowl with Josh as our QB. A good GM/Coach would have won 3-4 with Josh. But, how does it really change how you watch the following 10-20 years of Bills games? I could care less about bragging rights, etc. And of course, that stuff fades with time anyhow, just ask the Jets. Whenever they say, "well at least our franchise has won a Super Bowl," others will respond, "yeah like almost 60 years ago, you weren't even born, so who cares." What we will remember is that moment, and that memory of sharing it with our families and fellow Bills' fans. But then the next season, it's just striving for that same goal again---and who knows how long it will take to do it again?

 

And we have actually had tons of those types of moments, just not in the Super Bowl. But honestly, I wouldn't trade being a Bills fan for all of the Lombardis in New England and K.C. Why? Because it hasn't been easy. The life lessons that have come along with being a Bills fan (resiliency, perseverance, overcoming adversity, loyalty, compassion, true teamwork, etc.) are unquantifiable. And because of all of the heartbreak, our small victories can be as or more exhilarating or precious than those other teams reaching the peak.

 

Let's go back to New Year's Eve 2017/2018. The drought ends. One of the best New Year's Eves of my life because of it. The joy and celebration we felt and shared with the team and Bills fans all around the country/world (just for making the playoffs) was probably as high as any team's secondary Super Bowl win (if it wasn't their first SB, or first in a long time). I mean how much true elation was there for say New England's 4th or 5th Super Bowl? Of course you're happy to win it again (especially if it was an exciting season), but the emotions felt are no where near the peak of that 1st one...or probably of making the playoffs after a 17-year drought.

 

How about the rally in Buffalo after the first Super Bowl loss in the 90s. When the entire crowd cheered for Scott Norwood to come to the podium (after having "lost" the game for the team...as many other fans would see it). Still brings a tear to my eye. And Marv reciting the "Sir Andrew" poem to the team, after the SB loss, about getting back up to fight another day.

 

51-3. I don't even need to say any more and most of you know what I'm talking about. And those that are old enough to have experienced it know. I was in the stands that day and I will never forget the party that was going on in that stadium for the entire second half. Or running through the parking lot after, high-fiving every other Bills fan.

 

The Damar Hamlin incident. How the team and community rallied together for our fallen comrade and grew closer because of it. All of the charitable donations made by Bills fans (Andy Dalton, Lamar Jackson, Damar, etc.)

 

I could go on and on...but you all know. We have had a lot of joy and a lot of heartbreak on this journey with our beloved team, but isn't that life?

 

And in the current era, beyond breaking the drought, we have enjoyed 93 wins (almost 65% of our games), we have dominated our division rivals, scored the most points and have the 2nd most wins last five years, getting to watch an All-time great QB---Amari lateraling the ball back to Josh for a TD in the snow vs. SF, Josh hurdling Anthony Barr to win as a 17-point underdogs, the perfect New England playoff game, the epic battles with KC (reg season and playoffs), etc., etc. I don't know about you, but I have enjoyed it all, Super Bowl or not.   

 

Yes, we all want to see the Bills win a Super Bowl, but if it all seems meaningless unless they do, then maybe it's time to get off the ride. One person can look at a roller coaster and say, that's dumb it just goes around in a circle and you don't get anywhere, so they walk away. While another person gets on and relishes the sensation of every up and down, every twist and turn. 

 

"I may be going to hell in a bucket, but at least I'm enjoying the ride." -The Grateful Dead

 

 

 

 

 

Amazing post, one of the best I have ever read in this forum in the well over two decades I have been on here.

 

Unfortunately it looks like not many have read it yet--or there would be a slew of posters hitting the 'awesome' emoji by now. 

 

And, of course, almost none of those who most need to read it will do so. And those of them that do read it won't get it; it is sooo far off the tracks for them.  But  If they don't know sh*t from roses, fu**  'em.  They aren't worth converting and will never get off that dark, irrational Crazy Train.

 

Truly a moving post, one full of insight and wisdom, as you define what it means to be a Bills' fan, and a human being as well.

 

Everyone should read Folz's post. Yup, it's long, but just look at what this thread has become, the waste, the same few posters bashing all over again, like demented broken records..  How many of the posts in this thread are just nonsense, just a waste of everyone's time--again?  Like so many of the off season threads dominated by bashing, negativity and ignorance.

 

Instead, read that post, and be enlightened. Two posts above this one...

 

 

 

 

Edited Monday at 11:45 PM by Mister Defense

[appoo]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

If the emphasis is on the journey then there's not much point in a destination.  Would you like me to remove Burrows numbers too?  I'm sure with enough finagling, we can get that 24 down to 19. 

I find the joy in the journey, while the destination is the bonus.

 

The drought taught me that just competing for the top spot is what I really want. I value the 18 weeks of joy and sadness that comes from being a fan of a team that has legitimate aspirations for the end of season tournament.

 

The worst thing I can feel as a sports fan isn’t pain or sadness - it’s apathy.

That’s just my personal view point. I’m someone who would rather be consistently good year in year out, than randomly be great and then years of crap. I also think it’s harder to be consistently good as well, especially in the salary cap era. That to me is a true testament or greatness 

[appoo]

But I'm also the guy who lives in California and bought a plane ticket and booked a hotel in downtown Buffalo in case the Bills played in the SB, so I could be surrounded by Bills fans on that evening. 

[Mikie2times]

2 hours ago, folz said:

Sorry to get a bit philosophical on a football board, but...

 

Let me ask this. Is a person's life meaningless unless they reach the top of their profession and are rich and famous? i.e., "win the Super Bowl" according to society's  standards.

 

Or do they instead look back on life and see all of the fun and loving interactions with their friends and family; births, weddings, small achievements by you, your spouse, or children. Do they take pride in learning and growing and becoming a better person and helping their children to do the same, pride in overcoming the obstacles and adversity that they've faced, the enjoyment of holidays and parties and vacations and great conversations, and intimate moments with the one they love, etc., etc. What is more important in the end?

 

My second question is, when we win the Super Bowl, what then? Yes, it would be an awesome, ecstatic moment that we will all remember for a long, long time. A weight lifted off our collective shoulders. But then what? Do you stop watching football? Do you not care if the Bills stink then for the rest of our lives because at least we got one? Or does the narrative become, well we've only won one Super Bowl with Josh as our QB. A good GM/Coach would have won 3-4 with Josh. But, how does it really change how you watch the following 10-20 years of Bills games? I could care less about bragging rights, etc. And of course, that stuff fades with time anyhow, just ask the Jets. Whenever they say, "well at least our franchise has won a Super Bowl," others will respond, "yeah like almost 60 years ago, you weren't even born, so who cares." What we will remember is that moment, and that memory of sharing it with our families and fellow Bills' fans. But then the next season, it's just striving for that same goal again---and who knows how long it will take to do it again?

 

And we have actually had tons of those types of moments, just not in the Super Bowl. But honestly, I wouldn't trade being a Bills fan for all of the Lombardis in New England and K.C. Why? Because it hasn't been easy. The life lessons that have come along with being a Bills fan (resiliency, perseverance, overcoming adversity, loyalty, compassion, true teamwork, etc.) are unquantifiable. And because of all of the heartbreak, our small victories can be as or more exhilarating or precious than those other teams reaching the peak.

 

Let's go back to New Year's Eve 2017/2018. The drought ends. One of the best New Year's Eves of my life because of it. The joy and celebration we felt and shared with the team and Bills fans all around the country/world (just for making the playoffs) was probably as high as any team's secondary Super Bowl win (if it wasn't their first SB, or first in a long time). I mean how much true elation was there for say New England's 4th or 5th Super Bowl? Of course you're happy to win it again (especially if it was an exciting season), but the emotions felt are no where near the peak of that 1st one...or probably of making the playoffs after a 17-year drought.

 

How about the rally in Buffalo after the first Super Bowl loss in the 90s. When the entire crowd cheered for Scott Norwood to come to the podium (after having "lost" the game for the team...as many other fans would see it). Still brings a tear to my eye. And Marv reciting the "Sir Andrew" poem to the team, after the SB loss, about getting back up to fight another day.

 

51-3. I don't even need to say any more and most of you know what I'm talking about. And those that are old enough to have experienced it know. I was in the stands that day and I will never forget the party that was going on in that stadium for the entire second half. Or running through the parking lot after, high-fiving every other Bills fan.

 

The Damar Hamlin incident. How the team and community rallied together for our fallen comrade and grew closer because of it. All of the charitable donations made by Bills fans (Andy Dalton, Lamar Jackson, Damar, etc.)

 

I could go on and on...but you all know. We have had a lot of joy and a lot of heartbreak on this journey with our beloved team, but isn't that life?

 

And in the current era, beyond breaking the drought, we have enjoyed 93 wins (almost 65% of our games), we have dominated our division rivals, scored the most points and have the 2nd most wins last five years, getting to watch an All-time great QB---Amari lateraling the ball back to Josh for a TD in the snow vs. SF, Josh hurdling Anthony Barr to win as a 17-point underdogs, the perfect New England playoff game, the epic battles with KC (reg season and playoffs), etc., etc. I don't know about you, but I have enjoyed it all, Super Bowl or not.   

 

Yes, we all want to see the Bills win a Super Bowl, but if it all seems meaningless unless they do, then maybe it's time to get off the ride. One person can look at a roller coaster and say, that's dumb it just goes around in a circle and you don't get anywhere, so they walk away. While another person gets on and relishes the sensation of every up and down, every twist and turn. 

 

"I may be going to hell in a bucket, but at least I'm enjoying the ride." -The Grateful Dead

 

 

 

When most people say winning a Super bowl is the only thing that matters I think people are taking that a bit out of context in this thread. It isn't literally the only thing that matters. I'm sure most would prefer watching a Bills team that is 1-15 vs it being the offseason. Watching a successful Bills team vs an unsuccessful one. Most of us live and breath this team and we love the great moments the Bills give us even if it's not Everest. I doubt many people here are watching as Allen does something impossible, leaping into the end zone, then exclaiming, "its not the Super Bowl Josh! Calm the F down!".

 

The Super Bowl only people still are enjoying this run a great deal. We just aren't overly excited about celebrating milestones like AFC east champions, winningest team of this _____, winningest coach of that.  We know we are good. We enjoy the team. We just raised the bar of what success is or isn't at this point. So when the year is over and we are left to reflect on it, without that accomplishment, it is getting harder to say the year was a success. A lot of good times can still be had even if that ends up being the conclusion. 

[Simon]

3 hours ago, folz said:

"I may be going to hell in a bucket, but at least I'm enjoying the ride." -The Grateful Dead

 

Perfect call for the debate in this thread

[Brand J]

3 hours ago, folz said:

Sorry to get a bit philosophical on a football board, but...

 

Let me ask this. Is a person's life meaningless unless they reach the top of their profession and are rich and famous? i.e., "win the Super Bowl" according to society's  standards.

 

Or do they instead look back on life and see all of the fun and loving interactions with their friends and family; births, weddings, small achievements by you, your spouse, or children. Do they take pride in learning and growing and becoming a better person and helping their children to do the same, pride in overcoming the obstacles and adversity that they've faced, the enjoyment of holidays and parties and vacations and great conversations, and intimate moments with the one they love, etc., etc. What is more important in the end?

 

My second question is, when we win the Super Bowl, what then? Yes, it would be an awesome, ecstatic moment that we will all remember for a long, long time. A weight lifted off our collective shoulders. But then what? Do you stop watching football? Do you not care if the Bills stink then for the rest of our lives because at least we got one? Or does the narrative become, well we've only won one Super Bowl with Josh as our QB. A good GM/Coach would have won 3-4 with Josh. But, how does it really change how you watch the following 10-20 years of Bills games? I could care less about bragging rights, etc. And of course, that stuff fades with time anyhow, just ask the Jets. Whenever they say, "well at least our franchise has won a Super Bowl," others will respond, "yeah like almost 60 years ago, you weren't even born, so who cares." What we will remember is that moment, and that memory of sharing it with our families and fellow Bills' fans. But then the next season, it's just striving for that same goal again---and who knows how long it will take to do it again?

 

And we have actually had tons of those types of moments, just not in the Super Bowl. But honestly, I wouldn't trade being a Bills fan for all of the Lombardis in New England and K.C. Why? Because it hasn't been easy. The life lessons that have come along with being a Bills fan (resiliency, perseverance, overcoming adversity, loyalty, compassion, true teamwork, etc.) are unquantifiable. And because of all of the heartbreak, our small victories can be as or more exhilarating or precious than those other teams reaching the peak.

 

Let's go back to New Year's Eve 2017/2018. The drought ends. One of the best New Year's Eves of my life because of it. The joy and celebration we felt and shared with the team and Bills fans all around the country/world (just for making the playoffs) was probably as high as any team's secondary Super Bowl win (if it wasn't their first SB, or first in a long time). I mean how much true elation was there for say New England's 4th or 5th Super Bowl? Of course you're happy to win it again (especially if it was an exciting season), but the emotions felt are no where near the peak of that 1st one...or probably of making the playoffs after a 17-year drought.

 

How about the rally in Buffalo after the first Super Bowl loss in the 90s. When the entire crowd cheered for Scott Norwood to come to the podium (after having "lost" the game for the team...as many other fans would see it). Still brings a tear to my eye. And Marv reciting the "Sir Andrew" poem to the team, after the SB loss, about getting back up to fight another day.

 

51-3. I don't even need to say any more and most of you know what I'm talking about. And those that are old enough to have experienced it know. I was in the stands that day and I will never forget the party that was going on in that stadium for the entire second half. Or running through the parking lot after, high-fiving every other Bills fan.

 

The Damar Hamlin incident. How the team and community rallied together for our fallen comrade and grew closer because of it. All of the charitable donations made by Bills fans (Andy Dalton, Lamar Jackson, Damar, etc.)

 

I could go on and on...but you all know. We have had a lot of joy and a lot of heartbreak on this journey with our beloved team, but isn't that life?

 

And in the current era, beyond breaking the drought, we have enjoyed 93 wins (almost 65% of our games), we have dominated our division rivals, scored the most points and have the 2nd most wins last five years, getting to watch an All-time great QB---Amari lateraling the ball back to Josh for a TD in the snow vs. SF, Josh hurdling Anthony Barr to win as a 17-point underdogs, the perfect New England playoff game, the epic battles with KC (reg season and playoffs), etc., etc. I don't know about you, but I have enjoyed it all, Super Bowl or not.   

 

Yes, we all want to see the Bills win a Super Bowl, but if it all seems meaningless unless they do, then maybe it's time to get off the ride. One person can look at a roller coaster and say, that's dumb it just goes around in a circle and you don't get anywhere, so they walk away. While another person gets on and relishes the sensation of every up and down, every twist and turn. 

 

"I may be going to hell in a bucket, but at least I'm enjoying the ride." -The Grateful Dead

 

 

 

I would imagine everyone on this board enjoys the journey. Everyone. Even if the ultimate disappoint makes them physically ill, there’s a ton of fun to be had before, during, and after a (victorious) game. If that wasn’t true, we wouldn’t watch or spend a dime on the Bills.

 

I can only speak for myself, but my “so what?” angle in response to the OP’s use of team statistics was just that… so what. Doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy the journey, it doesn’t mean every season is meaningless if it doesn’t end in a Super Bowl, doesn’t mean we should ignore the great things that come with having a perennial playoff team. At the end of the day, I just personally don’t want to see team statistics posted and praised if those stats ring hollow when it matters most.
 

What has the team achieved? What hardware? Any AFC Championship trophies? Super Bowl appearances? Super Bowl titles? At the end of the day, would it make any difference if we were 10th in offense and 10th in defense from 2020-2024 and the ride was just as fun before it ended in heartbreaking fashion? To me, it wouldn’t, so that’s why I shrug. Let’s get some hardware to back up those pretty team stats and then we can flex ‘em. Until then… so what.

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, Brand J said:

I would imagine everyone on this board enjoys the journey. Everyone. Even if the ultimate disappoint makes them physically ill, there’s a ton of fun to be had before, during, and after a (victorious) game. If that wasn’t true, we wouldn’t watch or spend a dime on the Bills.

 

I can only speak for myself, but my “so what?” angle in response to the OP’s use of team statistics was just that… so what. Doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy the journey, it doesn’t mean every season is meaningless if it doesn’t end in a Super Bowl, doesn’t mean we should ignore the great things that come with having a perennial playoff team. At the end of the day, I just personally don’t want to see team statistics posted and praised if those stats ring hollow when it matters most.
 

What has the team achieved? What hardware? Any AFC Championship trophies? Super Bowl appearances? Super Bowl titles? At the end of the day, would it make any difference if we were 10th in offense and 10th in defense from 2020-2024 and the ride was just as fun before it ended in heartbreaking fashion? To me, it wouldn’t, so that’s why I shrug. Let’s get some hardware to back up those pretty team stats and then we can flex ‘em. Until then… so what.

 

The bolded is totally fair. The rankings aren't proof necessarily of the enjoyment of the journey itself. It's a pretty neat statistic for the Bills to have, but it isn't that the last 5 years have only been fun because they are 1st and 1st. It is the wins and the moments and the successes. 

[OldNMBillsFan]

18 hours ago, appoo said:

In this thread which is more important: The Journey or the Destination

What's the average when not playing Pat Mahomes

I have posted this before. I will again. 

Since 2019 the Bills have played 9 playoff games that were not against KC, allowing only 19.2 points per game and having a record of 7-2. Since 2019 the Bills have played 4 playoff games against KC allowing a whopping 35 Points per game and an 0-4 record. The problem with the Defense is against only 1 team. It's significant, over a 15.8 point game swing. 

[LABILLBACKER]

I think the important thing to realize in this very optimistic thread is both sides ( journey / destination) have valid arguments. Neither side is wrong or whinning. @folz makes amazing philosophical arguments to validate the importance of not letting the heartbreak consume you. As we all have experienced over the years, being a Bills fan is a roller coaster ride of emotions.  Both joy, satisfaction and crushing heartbreak.  Obviously we all want to finally get to that destination.  But in 58 years we have come up short.

 

Maybe I'm just too old and "old-school" to appreciate enjoying the ride (journey).  The Bills accomplishments are not meaningless because we haven't won a Lombardi.  I've gotten caught up in several discussions with @Augie about the importance of not letting the loses consume you. It's ok to be entertained.  Maybe someday soon I can more embrace this montra. Being fans means you can cheer for your team but you can’t control the outcome.  It's gotta come deep down from the players and coaches.

[pi2000]

The stat that keeps blowing my mind from last season is only 2 lost fumbles, both from Josh.  

 

Not a single lost fumble by a RB, WR, TE or P/KR.

 

Remember when James Cook had ball security issues?

[Brand J]

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

The stat that keeps blowing my mind from last season is only 2 lost fumbles, both from Josh.  

 

Not a single lost fumble by a RB, WR, TE or P/KR.

 

Remember when James Cook had ball security issues?

Yeah that one’s not likely to be replicated again. Josh was the only player on offense with a turnover. Unreal. Joe Marino said something to the effect of he’d bank on the Bills being tops again in turnover differential rather than tops in 3rd down success (if he had to choose between the two). I’m the opposite. I think turnovers have far more variance.

[Mister Defense]

2 hours ago, pi2000 said:

The stat that keeps blowing my mind from last season is only 2 lost fumbles, both from Josh.  

 

Not a single lost fumble by a RB, WR, TE or P/KR.

 

Remember when James Cook had ball security issues?

 

Hope this, Brady's last year with us, is a great  one.

 

In hist first full year as our OC, the most points in Bills' history, the most points in the NFL last year, only team to ever score 30 rushing and 30 passing touchdowns, Josh's first MVP............

 

And that stat you share, that I did not know previously. I knew they were superb in not turning the ball over, but not that specific stat.

 

Think of how well prepared an offense it must be, how fine tuned, how sharp in their skills and execution, to have no lost fumbles by any running back, wide receiver or tight end--in an entire season.

 

 

[Augie]

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I think the important thing to realize in this very optimistic thread is both sides ( journey / destination) have valid arguments. Neither side is wrong or whinning. @folz makes amazing philosophical arguments to validate the importance of not letting the heartbreak consume you. As we all have experienced over the years, being a Bills fan is a roller coaster ride of emotions.  Both joy, satisfaction and crushing heartbreak.  Obviously we all want to finally get to that destination.  But in 58 years we have come up short.

 

Maybe I'm just too old and "old-school" to appreciate enjoying the ride (journey).  The Bills accomplishments are not meaningless because we haven't won a Lombardi.  I've gotten caught up in several discussions with @Augie about the importance of not letting the loses consume you. It's ok to be entertained.  Maybe someday soon I can more embrace this montra. Being fans means you can cheer for your team but you can’t control the outcome.  It's gotta come deep down from the players and coaches.

 

I don’t mean to sound like I’m telling others how to feel or act, because that’s not the case. It’s very personal and individual. But for me I’ve learned that I have no control over what happens to the Bills, but I can have some control over my emotions. I get upset like everybody else, and nobody wants a Bills Super Bowl more than I do. But we have learned some difficult life lessons, and I find it is healthier for me if I keep some perspective. It’s a game. 

 

My wife leaves to see her brother tomorrow who is caring for his wife with stage 4 breast cancer and starting a new round of chemo. He needs surgery and is having a hard time getting around, so my wife is going to help. She’s unexpectedly available to go because her job was eliminated last month. (That’s actually a blessing, because they will pay her well NOT to work and she could have a job next week if she wants, or maybe just retire.) We all have “stuff” in our lives that is more important than the Bills, I hope.

 

It’s not productive or healthy for me to hold my angst over 13 seconds or Music City Miracle or Wide Right. It happened, some changes were made, lessons were hopefully learned, and we move on.  

 

I didn’t used to be quite like this, but you learn some survival techniques when life kicks you around a little bit. It’s the old what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger deal, I suppose. 

 

 

[BillsFooteball]

On 6/2/2025 at 5:35 PM, folz said:

Sorry to get a bit philosophical on a football board, but...

 

Let me ask this. Is a person's life meaningless unless they reach the top of their profession and are rich and famous? i.e., "win the Super Bowl" according to society's  standards.

 

Or do they instead look back on life and see all of the fun and loving interactions with their friends and family; births, weddings, small achievements by you, your spouse, or children. Do they take pride in learning and growing and becoming a better person and helping their children to do the same, pride in overcoming the obstacles and adversity that they've faced, the enjoyment of holidays and parties and vacations and great conversations, and intimate moments with the one they love, etc., etc. What is more important in the end?

 

My second question is, when we win the Super Bowl, what then? Yes, it would be an awesome, ecstatic moment that we will all remember for a long, long time. A weight lifted off our collective shoulders. But then what? Do you stop watching football? Do you not care if the Bills stink then for the rest of our lives because at least we got one? Or does the narrative become, well we've only won one Super Bowl with Josh as our QB. A good GM/Coach would have won 3-4 with Josh. But, how does it really change how you watch the following 10-20 years of Bills games? I could care less about bragging rights, etc. And of course, that stuff fades with time anyhow, just ask the Jets. Whenever they say, "well at least our franchise has won a Super Bowl," others will respond, "yeah like almost 60 years ago, you weren't even born, so who cares." What we will remember is that moment, and that memory of sharing it with our families and fellow Bills' fans. But then the next season, it's just striving for that same goal again---and who knows how long it will take to do it again?

 

And we have actually had tons of those types of moments, just not in the Super Bowl. But honestly, I wouldn't trade being a Bills fan for all of the Lombardis in New England and K.C. Why? Because it hasn't been easy. The life lessons that have come along with being a Bills fan (resiliency, perseverance, overcoming adversity, loyalty, compassion, true teamwork, etc.) are unquantifiable. And because of all of the heartbreak, our small victories can be as or more exhilarating or precious than those other teams reaching the peak.

 

Let's go back to New Year's Eve 2017/2018. The drought ends. One of the best New Year's Eves of my life because of it. The joy and celebration we felt and shared with the team and Bills fans all around the country/world (just for making the playoffs) was probably as high as any team's secondary Super Bowl win (if it wasn't their first SB, or first in a long time). I mean how much true elation was there for say New England's 4th or 5th Super Bowl? Of course you're happy to win it again (especially if it was an exciting season), but the emotions felt are no where near the peak of that 1st one...or probably of making the playoffs after a 17-year drought.

 

How about the rally in Buffalo after the first Super Bowl loss in the 90s. When the entire crowd cheered for Scott Norwood to come to the podium (after having "lost" the game for the team...as many other fans would see it). Still brings a tear to my eye. And Marv reciting the "Sir Andrew" poem to the team, after the SB loss, about getting back up to fight another day.

 

51-3. I don't even need to say any more and most of you know what I'm talking about. And those that are old enough to have experienced it know. I was in the stands that day and I will never forget the party that was going on in that stadium for the entire second half. Or running through the parking lot after, high-fiving every other Bills fan.

 

The Damar Hamlin incident. How the team and community rallied together for our fallen comrade and grew closer because of it. All of the charitable donations made by Bills fans (Andy Dalton, Lamar Jackson, Damar, etc.)

 

I could go on and on...but you all know. We have had a lot of joy and a lot of heartbreak on this journey with our beloved team, but isn't that life?

 

And in the current era, beyond breaking the drought, we have enjoyed 93 wins (almost 65% of our games), we have dominated our division rivals, scored the most points and have the 2nd most wins last five years, getting to watch an All-time great QB---Amari lateraling the ball back to Josh for a TD in the snow vs. SF, Josh hurdling Anthony Barr to win as a 17-point underdogs, the perfect New England playoff game, the epic battles with KC (reg season and playoffs), etc., etc. I don't know about you, but I have enjoyed it all, Super Bowl or not.   

 

Yes, we all want to see the Bills win a Super Bowl, but if it all seems meaningless unless they do, then maybe it's time to get off the ride. One person can look at a roller coaster and say, that's dumb it just goes around in a circle and you don't get anywhere, so they walk away. While another person gets on and relishes the sensation of every up and down, every twist and turn. 

 

"I may be going to hell in a bucket, but at least I'm enjoying the ride." -The Grateful Dead

 

 

 

100%! Best post! 🏆 

[uticaclub]

15 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I don’t mean to sound like I’m telling others how to feel or act, because that’s not the case. It’s very personal and individual. But for me I’ve learned that I have no control over what happens to the Bills, but I can have some control over my emotions. I get upset like everybody else, and nobody wants a Bills Super Bowl more than I do. But we have learned some difficult life lessons, and I find it is healthier for me if I keep some perspective. It’s a game. 

 

My wife leaves to see her brother tomorrow who is caring for his wife with stage 4 breast cancer and starting a new round of chemo. He needs surgery and is having a hard time getting around, so my wife is going to help. She’s unexpectedly available to go because her job was eliminated last month. (That’s actually a blessing, because they will pay her well NOT to work and she could have a job next week if she wants, or maybe just retire.) We all have “stuff” in our lives that is more important than the Bills, I hope.

 

It’s not productive or healthy for me to hold my angst over 13 seconds or Music City Miracle or Wide Right. It happened, some changes were made, lessons were hopefully learned, and we move on.  

 

I didn’t used to be quite like this, but you learn some survival techniques when life kicks you around a little bit. It’s the old what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger deal, I suppose. 

 

 

100% tomorrow is not guaranteed, which makes any missed opportunity in life that much more frustrating.

[Augie]

1 hour ago, uticaclub said:

100% tomorrow is not guaranteed, which makes any missed opportunity in life that much more frustrating.

 

That’s up to you to decide, to a large degree. 

 

I try to be happy about things that are within my control. Anything else is gravy. 

 

.

Edited 26 minutes ago by Augie