James Cook absent from OTA's

[NewEra]

Just watched cooks 2024 highlights.  Then watched Ray Davis’ career highlights. Cooks speed is a difference maker. And he runs through contract now too. If he could only pass protect. 

I used to think I’d pay him 12M aav max, but now I’d be good with 15 if it were structured like @GunnerBill proposed.  I also used to think he was a lock to sign elsewhere after this season, but I’m starting to think he could return.  He’s our 2nd best player on O and most dangerous player with the ball in his hands.  
 

any chance Beane slaps the tag on him?

 

Edited 18 hours ago by NewEra

[Richard Noggin]

43 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Just watched cooks 2024 highlights.  Then watched Ray Davis’ career highlights. Cooks speed is a difference maker. And he runs through contract now too. If he could only pass protect. 

 

 

I just love this typo so much for us. So many implications. Deliciously loaded.

 

Lately in this thread I'm seeing reasonable extension proposals being discussed rationally. Difficult to argue with much of it, but then again, doesn't it seem like Beane's happy to get one more super motivated season (we'd presume) out of Cook, even though that could/would price him out of Buffalo's range? I just assume Beane is fine with drafting another mid-round RB next year and rolling with Davis, Johnson, and the rookie. Seems like a position they're willing to embrace turnover and roll with rookie deals and select/inexpensive vets. 

 

That could change. But Beane seems fine with RB Money Ball. 

Edited 17 hours ago by Richard Noggin

[BillsFanForever19]

9 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/james-cook-potential-holdout-not-something-i-want-to-talk-about-right-now

 

Going to be interesting to see if Cook holds out or not. (I can't see how it would make any sense from his side)

 

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

“I necessarily don’t want to talk about it right now, because it’s like, it’s something I want to hold in to myself . . . just let the business take care of the business,” Cook said,

 

He is aware that people can see stuff he posts online.  I assume.

 

The article also states:

 

Quote

Cook was at a Celebrity Poker Tour event in Las Vegas and he was asked about his contract situation. Cook said “however it works out, it works out” and that he works to make sure that “the business is a business, and just do whatever I can to always be there for my teammates.”

 

So that kind of flies in the face of holding out to a point that he'd miss any regular season time. 

 

Between this and Beane's recent comments that Cook's been in contact with people in the building that lead him to believe this won't be an issue this season - I imagine he's not going to miss more than maybe the first week of Training Camp, if anything.

 

I've mentioned this a few times before but it feels like what his brother Dalvin did in 2020. Wherein he threatened he may hold out and it became a story - then he ended up reporting the first day of Training Camp. The family knows that missing any of the season is going to make it harder to get what he wants.

Edited 15 hours ago by BillsFanForever19

[Doc Brown]

1 minute ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

 

The article also states:

 

 

So that kind of flies in the face of holding out to a point that he'd miss any time. 

 

Between this and Beane's recent comments that he's been in contact with people in the building that lead him to believe this won't be an issue this season - I imagine he's not going to miss more than maybe the first week of Training Camp, if anything.

 

I've mentioned this a few times before but it feels like what his brother Dalvin did in 2020. Wherein he threatened he may hold out and it became a story - then he ended up reporting the first day of Training Camp. The family knows that missing any of the season is going to make it harder to get what he wants.

The only leverage he has is trying to garner public sympathy and/or threaten to weaken the "culture" that Beane/McDermott have built.  He won't sit out because that means giving up more money than he's made the first three years combined.  It also makes another team way less likely next off-season to hand out any double digit yearly figure contract you're trying to get right now.  Plus, Beane can always use the threat of a franchise tag even if he does have another year similar to last year.  The NFLPA loves to say every time it's time to re-up the contract that they want to get rid of the franchise tag but never do.

[DrDawkinstein]

11 hours ago, Returntoglory said:

My God! Derrick Henry at 8 Mil? Cook's definitely on crack...

 

6 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Derrick Henry was over 30 years old with recurring foot issues. He also had already made his big money from Tennessee and took less than he could have from other teams to play for a contender. On top of that, the contract market is reset on a yearly basis with the rise in salary cap. 

 

The situations are completely different and not really comparable. To focus only on that and ignore the names and prices above that, like 30 year old Aaron Jones at 10m, Josh Jacobs at 12m, 29 year old Alvin Kamara at 12.5, without taking into account the insane numbers cut off at the top - is cherry picking.

 

Not only that, but it was never "$8M/yr".

 

The first year was a prove-it year where he only made a few mil because he was already over 30 years old. This year he is set to make $13M (as a 31 yr old RB), and Baltimore is now collectively the highest spending team at the RB position.

 

So good teams do spend on RBs. And contracts in the teens are not out of norm.

 

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

The only leverage he has is trying to garner public sympathy and/or threaten to weaken the "culture" that Beane/McDermott have built. 

 

Dang, you guys are DEVIOUS!

 

The best leverage he has is to show up and put up a season just like last year's.

 

If he does, I fully believe Beane will get to his number. The only problem is, if he does put up another good season, his number probably goes up to closer to $17M next year. The tag is definitely in play at that point.

[dancing_joker]

Cook was drafted by Beane to be a 3rd down back…do people forget that? He’s great at what they thought he couldn’t do. Now you’re going to trust these same evaluators to find another rb in the draft? You found gold, pay the man and enjoy the ride. He’s your only offensive stud not named Josh Allen

[Einstein's Dog]

5 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

Not only that, but it was never "$8M/yr".

 

The first year was a prove-it year where he only made a few mil because he was already over 30 years old. This year he is set to make $13M (as a 31 yr old RB), and Baltimore is now collectively the highest spending team at the RB position.

 

So good teams do spend on RBs. And contracts in the teens are not out of norm.

 

 

Dang, you guys are DEVIOUS!

 

The best leverage he has is to show up and put up a season just like last year's.

 

If he does, I fully believe Beane will get to his number. The only problem is, if he does put up another good season, his number probably goes up to closer to $17M next year. The tag is definitely in play at that point.

Yes, it was $8M/yr for D Henry.  Cap numbers can be manipulated.  The first year was not a "prove-it" year.

From Spotrac:

Derrick Henry signed a 2 year, $16,000,000 contract with the Baltimore Ravens, including $7,790,000 signing bonus, $9,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $8,000,000. In 2025, Henry will earn a base salary of $6,000,000 and a roster bonus of $1,000,000, while carrying a cap hit of $12,895,000 and a dead cap value of $4,895,000.

 

Cook does not want to be paid for what he has done, he wants market price for what he thinks he could do.  Cook has 2 season with about 1,000 yds rushing and 300 receiving.  This is C Hubbard/D Swift/D Henry $8.5M/yr territory.  Putting up a season like he did last year does not get Cook to $17m, let alone making it worth tagging him.  $17M?  What are you thinking?

 

[DrDawkinstein]

13 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Yes, it was $8M/yr for D Henry.  Cap numbers can be manipulated.  The first year was not a "prove-it" year.

From Spotrac:

Derrick Henry signed a 2 year, $16,000,000 contract with the Baltimore Ravens, including $7,790,000 signing bonus, $9,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $8,000,000. In 2025, Henry will earn a base salary of $6,000,000 and a roster bonus of $1,000,000, while carrying a cap hit of $12,895,000 and a dead cap value of $4,895,000.

 

Cook does not want to be paid for what he has done, he wants market price for what he thinks he could do.  Cook has 2 season with about 1,000 yds rushing and 300 receiving.  This is C Hubbard/D Swift/D Henry $8.5M/yr territory.  Putting up a season like he did last year does not get Cook to $17m, let alone making it worth tagging him.  $17M?  What are you thinking?

 

 

It was a prove it year.

 

He signed a 2/$16M contract. The first year his cap hit was only $5M. It was a $5M prove it year, because this year not only does his number go up to $13M, but they could cut him for less than $5M in dead cap, and save $8M if he was washed.

 

I bolded the part of what you pasted that shows what I am saying.

[SoonerBillsFan]

18 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Yes, it was $8M/yr for D Henry.  Cap numbers can be manipulated.  The first year was not a "prove-it" year.

From Spotrac:

Derrick Henry signed a 2 year, $16,000,000 contract with the Baltimore Ravens, including $7,790,000 signing bonus, $9,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $8,000,000. In 2025, Henry will earn a base salary of $6,000,000 and a roster bonus of $1,000,000, while carrying a cap hit of $12,895,000 and a dead cap value of $4,895,000.

 

Cook does not want to be paid for what he has done, he wants market price for what he thinks he could do.  Cook has 2 season with about 1,000 yds rushing and 300 receiving.  This is C Hubbard/D Swift/D Henry $8.5M/yr territory.  Putting up a season like he did last year does not get Cook to $17m, let alone making it worth tagging him.  $17M?  What are you thinking?

 

Based on him being mainly a 2 down back with some pass catching ability, I have no issues with 10 mil per year, but not 15, let alone 17 mill.

 

I think we ride him hard and hope he puts up a better year than ever, then let him walk for a comp pick. If he holds out, I don't see McDermott or Beane letting a malcontent stay on this team after how things went down with Diggs. So he will play or be traded by the trade deadline.   

Edited 2 hours ago by SoonerBillsFan

[DrDawkinstein]

16 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Cook does not want to be paid for what he has done, he wants market price for what he thinks he could do.  Cook has 2 season with about 1,000 yds rushing and 300 receiving.  This is C Hubbard/D Swift/D Henry $8.5M/yr territory.  Putting up a season like he did last year does not get Cook to $17m, let alone making it worth tagging him.  $17M?  What are you thinking?

 

 

Just because you have beef with Cook does not make this true.

 

Every year the cap goes up. Every year contracts go up. Numbers go up. That is a fact. It's why there were a number of "lesser" QBs making more than Josh over the past few years.

 

Barkley reset the RB market with a $20M+ contract. Whether you believe he is close to Barkley or not does not matter. No one is saying he should be paid as much as Barkley. BUT, if Cook does have another year like last year, then he will be known as an integral part of the best Offense in football. If he hits the market, other teams will not care whether he is a 2-down back. With 2 seasons in a row like that, he will absolutely get $15-17M on the open market next offseason.

 

His tag number will be $13-14M, and if that's the case, Beane will tag him. Heck, he might tag him anyways since it's essentially a 5th year option.

[Einstein's Dog]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It was a prove it year.

 

He signed a 2/$16M contract. The first year his cap hit was only $5M. It was a $5M prove it year, because this year not only does his number go up to $13M, but they could cut him for less than $5M in dead cap, and save $8M if he was washed.

 

I bolded the part of what you pasted that shows what I am saying.

You are bolding the cap figures.  We've been trying to tell you those are extremely manipulative. 

 

D Henry had a $7,790,000 signing bonus for 2024, with $9M guaranteed.  D Henry received more money than what Balt used for a cap hit - those are the games you can play with the cap.  This year D Henry will get the remaining portion of the $16M (don't get confused by what they do with the cap).

 

[SoonerBillsFan]

14 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Just because you have beef with Cook does not make this true.

 

Every year the cap goes up. Every year contracts go up. Numbers go up. That is a fact. It's why there were a number of "lesser" QBs making more than Josh over the past few years.

 

Barkley reset the RB market with a $20M+ contract. Whether you believe he is close to Barkley or not does not matter. No one is saying he should be paid as much as Barkley. BUT, if Cook does have another year like last year, then he will be known as an integral part of the best Offense in football. If he hits the market, other teams will not care whether he is a 2-down back. With 2 seasons in a row like that, he will absolutely get $15-17M on the open market next offseason.

 

His tag number will be $13-14M, and if that's the case, Beane will tag him. Heck, he might tag him anyways since it's essentially a 5th year option.

I can see the 5th year option exercised.  

[Billl]

1 minute ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I can see the 5th year option exercised.  

5th year options only apply to first round picks.

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

You are bolding the cap figures.  We've been trying to tell you those are extremely manipulative. 

 

D Henry had a $7,790,000 signing bonus for 2024, with $9M guaranteed.  D Henry received more money than what Balt used for a cap hit - those are the games you can play with the cap.  This year D Henry will get the remaining portion of the $16M (don't get confused by what they do with the cap).

 

 

CAP FIGURES ARE ALL THAT MATTER

 

No one cares about how much is actually hitting the player's bank account and when. ALL that matters is how it affects the team's cap space and ability to sign other players. Right?

 

Or is this that personal for you? Why would you care about anything else but cap numbers? I thought that's the whole point of not paying him too much was because we need to be able to spend elsewhere?

 

Make it make sense

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Billl said:

5th year options only apply to first round picks.

 

We know. We're saying for a 2nd round talent like Cook, the Tag is essentially like having a 5th year option.

 

I've been pretty anti-tag, but I think it's smart to apply it like that.

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by DrDawkinstein

[klos63]

6 hours ago, dancing_joker said:

Cook was drafted by Beane to be a 3rd down back…do people forget that? He’s great at what they thought he couldn’t do. Now you’re going to trust these same evaluators to find another rb in the draft? You found gold, pay the man and enjoy the ride. He’s your only offensive stud not named Josh Allen

Beane spent a 2nd round pick for a 3rd down back?  That makes no sense at all. 

[Einstein's Dog]

16 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Just because you have beef with Cook does not make this true.

 

Every year the cap goes up. Every year contracts go up. Numbers go up. That is a fact. It's why there were a number of "lesser" QBs making more than Josh over the past few years.

 

Barkley reset the RB market with a $20M+ contract. Whether you believe he is close to Barkley or not does not matter. No one is saying he should be paid as much as Barkley. BUT, if Cook does have another year like last year, then he will be known as an integral part of the best Offense in football. If he hits the market, other teams will not care whether he is a 2-down back. With 2 seasons in a row like that, he will absolutely get $15-17M on the open market next offseason.

 

His tag number will be $13-14M, and if that's the case, Beane will tag him. Heck, he might tag him anyways since it's essentially a 5th year option.

Two seasons in a row like what?   An exciting 1,000 rushing, +300 yds receiving, who plays 50% of the snaps?  Someone is going to give $15-17M for that?  When was the last time that happened?

 

 Cook may mean more to the Bills than some other teams because of the lack of other explosive weapons.  So Beane might be tempted to overpay and tag Cook - but I'm not sure, remember Beane let D Henry go to Balt for under $10M.  And the more Cook slides into Diggs type territory the less likely it becomes.

[SoonerBillsFan]

25 minutes ago, Billl said:

5th year options only apply to first round picks.

I forgot

[Buffalo716]

16 hours ago, NewEra said:

Just watched cooks 2024 highlights.  Then watched Ray Davis’ career highlights. Cooks speed is a difference maker. And he runs through contract now too. If he could only pass protect. 

I used to think I’d pay him 12M aav max, but now I’d be good with 15 if it were structured like @GunnerBill proposed.  I also used to think he was a lock to sign elsewhere after this season, but I’m starting to think he could return.  He’s our 2nd best player on O and most dangerous player with the ball in his hands.  
 

any chance Beane slaps the tag on him?

 

I really really do like James Cook.. he is fast with good vision.. but I do think he's totally replaceable at 15 million dollars a year 

 

Hes Chris Johnson lite .. he's not as fast as CJ 2K... Hes not as big... He is a tremendous running back next to Josh Allen 

 

Next to Josh Allen is the key.. whoever gives him the big bucks will not have a quarterback taking the pressure off of him like he has with Allen

 

No matter what anybody says James Cook is not the focal point to stop.. any defensive coordinator will let James Cook run wild if it means Josh Allen doesn't have the ball 

 

I think he's taking a drastic hit to his 4.9 ypc on basically most teams 

 

You're not replacing his 40-plus yard runs easily.. you can replace his production between the twenties with our really good run blocking line and Josh Allen taking pressure off

 

Sure his touchdown ability inside the 10 yard line was huge last year and that's probably his biggest asset.. but it was also his first year being a touchdown machine 

 

Running back is the one position where there's so much talent in the NFL.. there's plenty of guys who if they got the carries could be thousand yard runners getting to a groove..

 

Our own Fred Jackson beat out two first round picks in his tenure.. there's a lot of talented running backs next year in the draft that you could draft with speed in the 2nd-3rd

 

[Einstein's Dog]

17 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

CAP FIGURES ARE ALL THAT MATTER

 

No one cares about how much is actually hitting the player's bank account and when. ALL that matters is how it affects the team's cap space and ability to sign other players. Right?

 

Or is this that personal for you? Why would you care about anything else but cap numbers? I thought that's the whole point of not paying him too much was because we need to be able to spend elsewhere?

 

Make it make sense

 

Cap figures are not all that Matter!  The substance of the transaction matters!!

 

Eventually the substance must be accounted for.  You can manipulate individual years but eventually the cap needs to be considered.  Baltimore clearly manipulated the 2024 cap figure for D Henry because they were probably tight to the cap.  They gave Henry the $7,790,000 signing bonus but manipulated the cap figure to only be $5M.  The difference must be accounted for in the future.

 

The substance of the transaction, the $16M matters, because Balt is going to have to account for it in the future.  This is like you saying "oh, they're paying D Henry a lot because the cap figure is $13M this year".   No, they are making up some of what they hadn't claimed the year before.   The amount to D Henry had always been paying him $16M for 2 years.

[BillsFanForever19]

1 hour ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Based on him being mainly a 2 down back with some pass catching ability, I have no issues with 10 mil per year, but not 15, let alone 17 mill.

 

Again, you have to keep in mind that he's utilized as 2 Down Back *here*. That doesn't mean other teams won't view him as a 3 Down Back. Other teams may prioritize having an extra weapon on the field over an extra blocker on 3rd Downs. Especially when pretty much everyone and their mother posed the question "why did they take James Cook off the field for the last play of the season?".

 

Every year, guys are signed by other teams for bigger roles than they had on their prior team and are paid more for those new roles. Take Josh Palmer with us, for example. Spotrac had his market value at 3 years, 12.8m based on his role in LA. Clearly, the Bills and other teams as well viewed him as more and the price ended up at 3 years, 29m. 

 

It's fair to say that based on how we utilize him, that we shouldn't pay (in your opinion) more than X amount. But it's not fair or accurate to say he'll only be paid X amount league wide when he hits the market based on how we use him because that's how everyone will use him.

Edited 1 hour ago by BillsFanForever19