Is Cook worth it?

[Steptide]

It's 9 pages in, and probably been said somewhere, but honestly at this point, whether they trade him, bench him, or pay him, I don't even care honestly. He's a good player, but I'm not going into this season with anxiety cuz cook hasent been here. There's a dozen guys that took less money to be here and this dude wants 15 mil a season without the stats to back it up. 

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said:

 

Joe Marino talked about the pass pro argument and it turns out the Bills ask a RB to pass pro at a VERY low rate.  And they asked James cook to do it a very small amount of times, not even once a game.  While its true he is not good at it, it is also true they dont ask RB's to do it much.  In additon to pass pro he is not an ideal back on short yardage and has suspect hands.  Agree with the overall assessment, he is a two down back and not worth what he put out there.

 

People get so emotional about this stuff though, it is all just black and white.  I see the case from both sides and I am not at all surprised they are not coming to an agreement.    In this case I think it makes sense for Cook to want to get paid, he will have one chance to get a good payday.   RB's get screwed by the current structure for rookies because they have such short career spans.   If he plays this year he risks injury and never getting it (Bills have the leverage).  However the Bills could look at him and say, he is not worth 15M AAV, on the open market he may get 10-12MAAV but we don't value him even there.  So they are at a stand still, Cook and his reps will have to decide what the best course of action is.  I woudl not be that surprised if the Bills are not that in interested in an extension at what his market rate would be.   If he sits, he takes a hit on some of the 5M coming to him this year and teams may downgrade him just because of his potential to hold out.

 

I agree that Cook probably views himself like that because his argument would be "You don't ask me to do it!" in regards to pass pro, and the Bills argument is "That's because we CAN'T!".

 

I mean, imagine a key situation on 3rd down where he is in the game and Allen has to audible into a call that forces Cook to stay in and block due to the defense sending extra guys or the look they are in...the play gets blown up due to Cook whiffing on a block. Essentially he cannot be on the field on 3rd down because even tho he isn't asked to do it often, when you have to do it, you have to be able to do it well, not look like you are waving a cape in front of the bull like Ole!

 

Also, if he would be on the field on 3rd down, I would expect the Bills face more designed calls to get pressure directed at Cook and take advantage of his lack of ability as a blocker...teams are not stupid...they look to exploit the weak link and he would, by far, be the weak link in that situation.

 

That's the downside to his argument. Just because he isn't asked to, doesn't mean he shouldn't work at getting better at it, especially because if he is trying to force his way out of here, he will likely be going to a team that asks him to do it a lot more and expects that from him.

 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Big Turk

[MikePJ76]

4 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

I agree that Cook probably views himself like that because his argument would be "You don't ask me to do it!" in regards to pass pro, and the Bills argument is "That's because we CAN'T!".

 

I mean, imagine a key situation on 3rd down where he is in the game and Allen has to audible into a call that forces Cook to stay in and block due to the defense sending extra guys or the look they are in...the play gets blown up due to Cook whiffing on a block. Essentially he cannot be on the field on 3rd down because even tho he isn't asked to do it often, when you have to do it, you have to be able to do it well, not look like you are waving a cape in front of the bull like Ole!

 

Also, if he would be on the field on 3rd down, I would expect the Bills face more designed calls to get pressure directed at Cook and take advantage of his lack of ability as a blocker...teams are not stupid...they look to exploit the weak link and he would, by far, be the weak link in that situation.

 

That's the downside to his argument. Just because he isn't asked to, doesn't mean he shouldn't work at getting better at it, especially because if he is trying to force his way out of here, he will likely be going to a team that asks him to do it a lot more and expects that from him.

 

 

Once Upon a time Henry was poor in pass protection.

 

 

[Logic]

I have no problem with any player chasing a payday.

I ESPECIALLY have no problem with any running back chasing a payday, knowing the short shelf life of the position.

That said, I don't think Cook has gone about this in the most strategically advantageous way. The Bills are an organization who has shown that if you operate in good faith, show up, continue to work hard and play well, they WILL pay you. On the other hand, they've also shown that if you make you make a public spectacle out of things, become a distraction, stop showing up, and become a potential detriment to team chemistry and culture, they will NOT pay you.

I think the "push for your payday" advice that Cook received is fine. I think the WAY that he has been advised to go about pushing for said payday is ill-advised. The only way it makes sense to me is if he actively wants out of Buffalo.

All of that said, I expect him to show up for the season, play well, and then get paid. Hopefully by some other team, but it won't shock me if its the Bills.

[Big Turk]

7 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

Once Upon a time Henry was poor in pass protection.

 

 

 

And he identified it as a hole in his game and worked to improve. He also is a far bigger back than Cook, which makes him physically a much more imposing blocker. 

 

What matters is Cook working on improving on that area of his game, which doesn't seem to be happening.

[MikePJ76]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

And he identified it as a hole in his game and worked to improve. He also is a far bigger back than Cook, which makes him physically a much more imposing blocker. 

 

What matters is Cook working on improving on that area of his game, which doesn't seem to be happening.

Based on what?  The guy has gotten better in each of the last two offseasons.  

 

What evidence do you have that Cook has not and is not working to be a better blocker/pass protector?

[Big Turk]

Just now, MikePJ76 said:

Based on what?  The guy has gotten better in each of the last two offseasons.  

 

What evidence do you have that Cook has not and is not working to be a better blocker/pass protector?

 

Have you watched him in game? He is awful, even last year.  Improving when you are starting at like a 0/10 and "improving" to a 2/10 isn't moving the needle.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, Logic said:

I have no problem with any player chasing a payday.

I ESPECIALLY have no problem with any running back chasing a payday, knowing the short shelf life of the position.

That said, I don't think Cook has gone about this in the most strategically advantageous way. The Bills are an organization who has shown that if you operate in good faith, show up, continue to work hard and play well, they WILL pay you. On the other hand, they've also shown that if you make you make a public spectacle out of things, become a distraction, stop showing up, and become a potential detriment to team chemistry and culture, they will NOT pay you.

I think the "push for your payday" advice that Cook received is fine. I think the WAY that he has been advised to go about pushing for said payday is ill-advised. The only way it makes sense to me is if he actively wants out of Buffalo.

All of that said, I expect him to show up for the season, play well, and then get paid. Hopefully by some other team, but it won't shock me if its the Bills.

I agree with most of this but if I was to n Cook’s shoes, I would do the same thing. This is the most leverage he will ever have in his entire career. Playing on a one year contract is awful for any player but especially a rb.  If he plays on a one year deal he: risks suffering a major injury; gets less touches that hurts his value, and the Bills run him into the ground (I don’t see that).

 

every other good player for his Bills draft class has gotten a new deal. And I’d argue Cook has the best resume out of all of them. His brother’s career basically ended at 27.  
 

I get how it is tough to pay rb. But Cook has gotten better every year. He was the BEST player in the championship game and we might have won if he touched the ball more. This is going to be a story on Hard knocks. 

3 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Have you watched him in game? He is awful, even last year.  Improving when you are starting at like a 0/10 and "improving" to a 2/10 isn't moving the needle.

I’d love to see a real breakdown of this. Is Johnson better? Sure but I think this has been way overstated how bad Cook is. 

[Big Turk]

14 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I agree with most of this but if I was to n Cook’s shoes, I would do the same thing. This is the most leverage he will ever have in his entire career. Playing on a one year contract is awful for any player but especially a rb.  If he plays on a one year deal he: risks suffering a major injury; gets less touches that hurts his value, and the Bills run him into the ground (I don’t see that).

 

every other good player for his Bills draft class has gotten a new deal. And I’d argue Cook has the best resume out of all of them. His brother’s career basically ended at 27.  
 

I get how it is tough to pay rb. But Cook has gotten better every year. He was the BEST player in the championship game and we might have won if he touched the ball more. This is going to be a story on Hard knocks. 

I’d love to see a real breakdown of this. Is Johnson better? Sure but I think this has been way overstated how bad Cook is. 

 

I mean, I literally watched a play where Allen almost got killed immediately because Cook whiffed on his block so fast, Allen barely had time to get rid of the ball before being drilled.

 

It was honestly impressive that Cook could miss a block that badly that it led to Allen getting hit so quickly...that's how bad it was.

Edited 3 hours ago by Big Turk

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, WNYFAN1 said:

How do you count passes behind the line of scrimmage? This is a dink and dunk, run first offense with Josh making off-script hero plays. Not a high-octane passing offense by any stretch of the imagination.

 

 

Hmm. How do I count a PASS behind the line of scrimmage? Tough question. Run? Or pass? Hmm.

 

Remind me. Did you say they have dink and dunk elements? Or did you say they were a run first team, and is that what I responded to? I believe it was the latter. Again, they were not a run first team.

 

They were also 9th in the league in YPA. Allen threw downfield a lot. Had a bad year, his worst since he broke through at percentage of catchable balls that were in the air for 20 yards or more. That's not all on him, but some of it is.

 

They were a very successful passing offense, in any case. 8th in TDs and 14th in yards. 

 

Not run-first, though. If anything, fairly balanced, which is probably what they want to look like to - among other things - make it easier on Josh.

 

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I agree with most of this but if I was to n Cook’s shoes, I would do the same thing. This is the most leverage he will ever have in his entire career. Playing on a one year contract is awful for any player but especially a rb.  If he plays on a one year deal he: risks suffering a major injury; gets less touches that hurts his value, and the Bills run him into the ground (I don’t see that).

 

every other good player for his Bills draft class has gotten a new deal. And I’d argue Cook has the best resume out of all of them. His brother’s career basically ended at 27.  
 

I get how it is tough to pay rb. But Cook has gotten better every year. He was the BEST player in the championship game and we might have won if he touched the ball more. This is going to be a story on Hard knocks. 

I’d love to see a real breakdown of this. Is Johnson better? Sure but I think this has been way overstated how bad Cook is. 

 

 

C.Biscuit, I'm totally with you in terms of not being the least bit angry at Cook. He's got to try to maximize his earnings.

 

The question is whether these tactics do maximize his earnings. And what the Bills should do in response. IMO, the Bills response should be hoping he comes down eventually and not re-signing him unless he does.

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

 

I agree that Cook probably views himself like that because his argument would be "You don't ask me to do it!" in regards to pass pro, and the Bills argument is "That's because we CAN'T!".

 

I mean, imagine a key situation on 3rd down where he is in the game and Allen has to audible into a call that forces Cook to stay in and block due to the defense sending extra guys or the look they are in...the play gets blown up due to Cook whiffing on a block. Essentially he cannot be on the field on 3rd down because even tho he isn't asked to do it often, when you have to do it, you have to be able to do it well, not look like you are waving a cape in front of the bull like Ole!

 

Also, if he would be on the field on 3rd down, I would expect the Bills face more designed calls to get pressure directed at Cook and take advantage of his lack of ability as a blocker...teams are not stupid...they look to exploit the weak link and he would, by far, be the weak link in that situation.

 

That's the downside to his argument. Just because he isn't asked to, doesn't mean he shouldn't work at getting better at it, especially because if he is trying to force his way out of here, he will likely be going to a team that asks him to do it a lot more and expects that from him.

 

 

The takeaway from Joe Marino was that the Bills simply dont ask their RB's do pass pro much period, not because they can't but because Josh Allen can work around rushers really well and the back's are receivers.

[DrDawkinstein]

55 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

The takeaway from Joe Marino was that the Bills simply dont ask their RB's do pass pro much period, not because they can't but because Josh Allen can work around rushers really well and the back's are receivers.

 

That, and if it's true that our OL is so good they "make the RB" then why do we need an RB to stay in and help this supposed amazing OL?

 

Cook should be popping out of the backfield and making himself another option/target for Josh.

[DrDawkinstein]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

I have no problem with any player chasing a payday.

I ESPECIALLY have no problem with any running back chasing a payday, knowing the short shelf life of the position.

That said, I don't think Cook has gone about this in the most strategically advantageous way. The Bills are an organization who has shown that if you operate in good faith, show up, continue to work hard and play well, they WILL pay you. On the other hand, they've also shown that if you make you make a public spectacle out of things, become a distraction, stop showing up, and become a potential detriment to team chemistry and culture, they will NOT pay you.

I think the "push for your payday" advice that Cook received is fine. I think the WAY that he has been advised to go about pushing for said payday is ill-advised. The only way it makes sense to me is if he actively wants out of Buffalo.

All of that said, I expect him to show up for the season, play well, and then get paid. Hopefully by some other team, but it won't shock me if its the Bills.

 

Love your posts, but disagree with a lot of this perception and I think you are conflating situations to fit this narrative.

 

What you're basically saying here is that if Cook had not posted the comment "15 mill year" and showed up to OTAs, he'd be signed for his desired amount. I dont think Beane was going up to $14M-$15M in any situation this offseason. But Beane DID offer him an extension of some kind. Beane was willing to pay him, it was just lower than Cook wants.

 

To the opposite point, Edmunds didnt get paid, Singletary didnt get paid, Moss got traded, they were all "good soldiers". But the talent wasnt there to even get an extension offer.

 

Benford, Rousseau, Bernard, and Shakir all got extensions this offseason because they have the talent AND were willing to accept team-friendly deals. Not because they showed up to OTAs and didnt post on social media. And for Benford, Bernard, and Shakir, they were all mid-late round picks so these low-dollar extensions are even more enticing for them.

 

And outside of Diggs, who Beane had just handed a big new contract (even being known as a loud-mouth), I cant think of anyone else who tantrumed their way off the team. And even then, he still got paid. TWICE!

 

 

 

So I dont buy what this post is selling.

 

I think it's much more the situation that both Poyer and Hyde faced in their negotiations and unhappiness with their contracts: Beane has values placed on all positions, and he will only spend so much on certain positions. He has proven they do not place a high amount on Safety, and he's proving they have a similar low value amount on RB.  And both Poyer and Hyde were good soldiers who showed up and did their jobs, but were never happy with their contracts, and never got paid.

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by DrDawkinstein

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, MikePJ76 said:

Based on what?  The guy has gotten better in each of the last two offseasons.  

 

What evidence do you have that Cook has not and is not working to be a better blocker/pass protector?

His build makes it very difficult for him to improve in pass blocking.  I'm guessing he's worked on it going on at least seven years now going back to college.  I don't think it's due to a lack of effort.

Edited 43 minutes ago by Doc Brown

[RichRiderBills]

21 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

Because he's a pass catching RB. Actually his strength.

We old guys still want that 3 down cloud of dirt and blood RB who forces missed tackles by running over sht in a loaded box

 

Kamara is a pass catching RB. Compare #s. It's not even close. 

[Logic]

58 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Love your posts, but disagree with a lot of this perception and I think you are conflating situations to fit this narrative.

 

What you're basically saying here is that if Cook had not posted the comment "15 mill year" and showed up to OTAs, he'd be signed for his desired amount. I dont think Beane was going up to $14M-$15M in any situation this offseason. But Beane DID offer him an extension of some kind. Beane was willing to pay him, it was just lower than Cook wants.

 

To the opposite point, Edmunds didnt get paid, Singletary didnt get paid, Moss got traded, they were all "good soldiers". But the talent wasnt there to even get an extension offer.

 

Benford, Rousseau, Bernard, and Shakir all got extensions this offseason because they have the talent AND were willing to accept team-friendly deals. Not because they showed up to OTAs and didnt post on social media. And for Benford, Bernard, and Shakir, they were all mid-late round picks so these low-dollar extensions are even more enticing for them.

 

And outside of Diggs, who Beane had just handed a big new contract (even being known as a loud-mouth), I cant think of anyone else who tantrumed their way off the team. And even then, he still got paid. TWICE!

 

 

 

So I dont buy what this post is selling.

 

I think it's much more the situation that both Poyer and Hyde faced in their negotiations and unhappiness with their contracts: Beane has values placed on all positions, and he will only spend so much on certain positions. He has proven they do not place a high amount on Safety, and he's proving they have a similar low value amount on RB.  And both Poyer and Hyde were good soldiers who showed up and did their jobs, but were never happy with their contracts, and never got paid.

 

 

That's fair. I get what you're saying.

I think pricing himself as the second highest paid running back in the league (as has been reported) and putting his house on the market seems....a bit much.

On the other hand, staying away from all organized activities until the season starts seems reasonable to me. Why practice (and thus part yourself at risk of injury) if the team isn't willing to offer you the contract you think you deserve?

It's a situation with a lot of nuance, and the sports talk world generally doesn't do nuance well.

At the end of the day, I maintain that I support Cook's overall goal here, but I'm still not sure certain aspects of his methods of trying to achieve that goal are in his best interest. 

To be fair...I'm not an agent. I'm not a player. I'm just a goofball sitting on his couch playing armchair contract quarterback. I don't begrudge you saying I'm wrong on this one, and I very well might be.

Edited 7 minutes ago by Logic