The Worthy Trade Keeps Looking Worse and Worse

[Simon]

7 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

But Bill’s assertion that KC coaches aren’t concerned about injury exposure to Worthy handling that duty is disingenuous. 

 

I'm sure it's crossed their mind.

I guess the debate is whether it was the primary reason or just an additional consideration.

Considering the complexity of modern NFL offenses, I'd be inclined to think Billl's description was their primary reason for not doing it. I'm not sure how injury-prone the PR position is in the current version of the NFL; I'd guess it's a relatively safe duty.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

You can’t even afford parking 

 

Geez, how much does it cost to park a 10 speed up there?

[90sBills]

Just now, Simon said:

 

I'm sure it's crossed their mind.

I guess the debate is whether it was the primary reason or just an additional consideration.

Considering the complexity of modern NFL offenses, I'd be inclined to think Billl's description was their primary reason for not doing it. I'm not sure how injury-prone the PR position is in the current version of the NFL; I'd guess is a relatively safe duty.

I can see that. Especially towards the end of last season when he was pretty much all they got on the outside. They definitely couldn’t lose him then. 

[TheWeatherMan]

6 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Let’s be honest, even when that changes, nothing will change. Fans will continue to think they are smarter than they really are. A trophy will only shut them up until after the parade. The Bills FO will be idiots again by the next draft. Count on it. 

Let’s be honest, it’s not just Bills fans that dump on the Bills Coaching and FO decision making. Extremely poor day 1 drafting (except JA) and critical play calls have crushed championship runs.  Bills fans want for JA (and tbenselves) what the Chiefs and Eagles have. 

[NoSaint]

4 hours ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

You can't coach speed !

I hate to say it but if everyone is eating and we aren’t trying to force feed the guy…. 
 

can you imagine Brady scheming him up? 
 

sure he wouldn’t be a big run blocker but…. Jeeeze. It seems we’ve been trying to fill the speedy gadget guy roll forever with modest luck at best. Whether McKenzie or Hines or Samuel or…. If we weren’t getting a potential WR1 boundary guy to feed- a matchup nightmare with Brady sure would’ve been fun

 

and never expected to get 120 touches or anything so durability only a modest concern anyway.

52 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

That may be but he did play a ton in his rookie year. I can see Worthy having an impact as a returner with his speed. But Bill’s assertion that KC coaches aren’t concerned about injury exposure to Worthy handling that duty is disingenuous. 

tyreek played 40% of offensive snaps his rookie year. 
 

to billlllls point, if not for all the challenges at WR worthy might’ve gotten looks elsewhere, like PR, to manufacture touches…. But he was on the field in most packages

[Rocky Landing]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

I'm sure it's crossed their mind.

I guess the debate is whether it was the primary reason or just an additional consideration.

Considering the complexity of modern NFL offenses, I'd be inclined to think Billl's description was their primary reason for not doing it. I'm not sure how injury-prone the PR position is in the current version of the NFL; I'd guess it's a relatively safe duty.

 

 

 

Geez, how much does it cost to park a 10 speed up there?

A "10 speed." You're dating yourself again!

[The Red King]

4 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

I remember Josh's rookie year a lot different than you do. I saw the flashes of brilliance you want to see in a rookie & thought he was the answer at QB.  If you didn't think much of his rookie year, you were relying too much on stats.  Visually, he had "it". I was so confident in his ability that the next year I was all over Bills futures & won big. I also had the audacity to tell a Jets fan on my bus on opening day 2019 that Josh was a future HOFer. I guess since I rely on my eyes and never on stats, I remember Josh's rookie year a lot differently.  

 

You made my point.  I was never down on Josh.  I saw the same flashes.  But, onto your memory, do you remember these forums that year, calling him "Wrong Josh" and a bust?

 

The point to my reply was that a year is nowhere near enough time to fully evaluate a draft pick.

[Simon]

26 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

A "10 speed." You're dating yourself again!

 

I'd say I was trying to date HOUSE, but my keyboard just won't do it...

[Billl]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

Why didn’t they let him return punts last year when they really needed it? They opted to bring up a practice squad guy to do it instead of Worthy. Obviously injuries were a concern. 

Hill returned punts as a rookie. 

When did they really need a punt returner?  That’s much more of a luxury role than a need.  All I ask of a punt returner is that he not fumble.  Any return yards are just gravy.  That practice squad guy came in and averaged 10 yards a return, so there was certainly no reason to pile more onto a 21 year old rookie’s plate who was thrust into the WR1 role unexpectedly.

[90sBills]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

When did they really need a punt returner?  That’s much more of a luxury role than a need.  All I ask of a punt returner is that he not fumble.  Any return yards are just gravy.  That practice squad guy came in and averaged 10 yards a return, so there was certainly no reason to pile more onto a 21 year old rookie’s plate who was thrust into the WR1 role unexpectedly.

They didn’t need a returner but elevated a practice squad player to be a returner? Ok. 

[Billl]

2 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

They didn’t need a returner but elevated a practice squad player to be a returner? Ok. 

Yeah, I’m sure Andy Reid was losing sleep over who was going to return punts for his 10-1 team when Mecole Hardman went down.  You realize that Brandon Codrington returned punts for the Bills, right?  Teams don’t tend to send their top WRs out to play special teams, particularly when they’re still learning the offense.  Again, he played over 900 snaps on offense last season and they’re talking about sending him out to return punts this year.  Literally nothing about that indicates that they’re trying to limit his use in order to shield him from injuries.  In fact, he played more snaps than any other rookie WR last year.

[90sBills]

11 minutes ago, Billl said:

Yeah, I’m sure Andy Reid was losing sleep over who was going to return punts for his 10-1 team when Mecole Hardman went down.  You realize that Brandon Codrington returned punts for the Bills, right?  Teams don’t tend to send their top WRs out to play special teams, particularly when they’re still learning the offense.  Again, he played over 900 snaps on offense last season and they’re talking about sending him out to return punts this year.  Literally nothing about that indicates that they’re trying to limit his use in order to shield him from injuries.  In fact, he played more snaps than any other rookie WR last year.

So you’re saying they don’t consider him a top WR this year since they’re talking about him returning punts?

[Billl]

7 hours ago, 90sBills said:

So you’re saying they don’t consider him a top WR this year since they’re talking about him returning punts?

He’s not the team’s top WR. Rashee Rice is WR1. Hollywood Brown is WR2.  If those guys get injured again, Worthy won’t be returning punts. This isn’t that complicated. 

[transient]

9 hours ago, Simon said:

 

I'd say I was trying to date HOUSE, but my keyboard just won't do it...

Fair warning, if your keyboard ever has a change of heart, be ready to pick up the check...

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

He’s not the team’s top WR. Rashee Rice is WR1. Hollywood Brown is WR2.  If those guys get injured again, Worthy won’t be returning punts. This isn’t that complicated. 

you manufacture touches for guys that can house it any given touch. 
 

if his snap count is going to go down on offense you get him touches elsewhere

 

just echoing your point 

[Billl]

6 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

you manufacture touches for guys that can house it any given touch. 
 

if his snap count is going to go down on offense you get him touches elsewhere

 

just echoing your point 

Yep.  Not exactly sure why 90sBills seems surprised that when Mecole Hardman (the guy at the bottom of the WR depth chart) went down that he was replaced by a player from the practice squad.  I assume he’s just trying to find ways to validate letting the Chiefs draft Worthy by pretending that Andy Reid is terrified of exposing Worthy to injury risk.

 

Meanwhile, guys like Rashee Rice, Hollywood Brown, Juju, Mecole Hardman, Keon Coleman, Curtis Samuel, Dalton Kincaid, and Amari Cooper were all injured to varying degrees last season while Worthy played over 900 injury-free snaps.  Coming into the draft, I had no interest in Xavier Worthy, but I’ve learned that you don’t get rich by betting against Kansas City’s front office when it comes to identifying talent.  I’d be lying if I said I had no concerns surrounding his durability, but that’s a risk worth taking for a guy who impacts the entire defensive game plan.

[SoTier]

11 hours ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Let’s be honest, it’s not just Bills fans that dump on the Bills Coaching and FO decision making. Extremely poor day 1 drafting (except JA) and critical play calls have crushed championship runs.  Bills fans want for JA (and tbenselves) what the Chiefs and Eagles have. 

 

Dude, you don't know what "extremely poor day 1 drafting" looks like.  Check out 2000 DE Erik Flowers, 2002 OT Mike Williams, 2004 QB JP Losman, 2008 DB Leodis McKelvin, 2009 DE Aaron Maybin, 2011 DT Marcell Dareus, 2013 QB EJ Manuel, 2016 DE Shaq Lawson ... from the drafts before the McDermott/Beane regime.  These were all bust or near bust first round picks for the Bills in the first 17 drafts of the 2000s.   That's nearly half of the Bills first rounders in those drafts ... and most of these players were taken in the top half of the first round.  McKelvin and Maybin were top ten picks.  Williams and Dareus were top five picks.

[Matt_In_NH]

This thread title is sensational media nonsense.  It was a swap of picks trade, not a Worthy trade.   Why dont we talk more about the "Mahomes trade"

[uticaclub]

26 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Dude, you don't know what "extremely poor day 1 drafting" looks like.  Check out 2000 DE Erik Flowers, 2002 OT Mike Williams, 2004 QB JP Losman, 2008 DB Leodis McKelvin, 2009 DE Aaron Maybin, 2011 DT Marcell Dareus, 2013 QB EJ Manuel, 2016 DE Shaq Lawson ... from the drafts before the McDermott/Beane regime.  These were all bust or near bust first round picks for the Bills in the first 17 drafts of the 2000s.   That's nearly half of the Bills first rounders in those drafts ... and most of these players were taken in the top half of the first round.  McKelvin and Maybin were top ten picks.  Williams and Dareus were top five picks.

And sadly Dareus would be our best player on the Dline. Dareus was great until he wasn't; the other guys just sucked. Still can't billieve Mike Williams was such a bust.

[TheWeatherMan]

54 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Dude, you don't know what "extremely poor day 1 drafting" looks like.  Check out 2000 DE Erik Flowers, 2002 OT Mike Williams, 2004 QB JP Losman, 2008 DB Leodis McKelvin, 2009 DE Aaron Maybin, 2011 DT Marcell Dareus, 2013 QB EJ Manuel, 2016 DE Shaq Lawson ... from the drafts before the McDermott/Beane regime.  These were all bust or near bust first round picks for the Bills in the first 17 drafts of the 2000s.   That's nearly half of the Bills first rounders in those drafts ... and most of these players were taken in the top half of the first round.  McKelvin and Maybin were top ten picks.  Williams and Dareus were top five picks.

I’ve been a fan since the 80s I’m well aware.  These were insanely poor draft choices, the next level up.  And like you said it was a longer history of poor choices and they were in the upper half of the draft, not the lower. 

[90sBills]

4 hours ago, Billl said:

He’s not the team’s top WR. Rashee Rice is WR1. Hollywood Brown is WR2.  If those guys get injured again, Worthy won’t be returning punts. This isn’t that complicated. 

Right. So the reason he wasn’t returning punts last year was because of injury concerns as those other two weren’t around. It really isn’t that complicated.