Wide Receiver Train Full Speed Ahead- CHOO CHOO!

[Alphadawg7]

Imagine thinking there is more to be said on this subject 

 

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Prather and a bunch of guys who couldn't stick on an NFL roster last year is a "big competition"?

 

 

Statistically Prather has maybe a 2% chance of becoming a good NFL WR.   The draft may be a "crap shoot" but teams are pretty good at identifying which WR's have a chance typically.   Rounds 1-4.  Shakir is an outlier in the round 5-7 range and he was there because he's a slot only.

 

 Shenault got released by Seattle in-season last year.   He is a one trick pony kick returner(only slightly above average) who doesn't return punts.  

 

After Moore......who was awful last year.......the subsequent guys are nothing but practice squad fodder.   

 

 

Palmer is a solid football player 

 

I've literally been way less on Herbert than the majority of this board over the years

 

He's a stat stuffer who has been folding with the game on the line since college... I think Palmer will easily be putting up 700+ yards 

 

And I wouldn't be surprised to see Kincaid go up to 700 plus

Edited Friday at 02:34 AM by Buffalo716

[BADOLBILZ]

22 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Wait, was Moore awful last year? I don't ask that combatively, but I haven't heard/seen that kind of blunt indictment to date (could be blind). 

 

 

 

Yeah Moore had a ghastly 44.5 passer rating when targeted last year.   An abysmal 8.8 yards per catch and 8 INT's when targeted.  He had the second worst YAC average(2.2) in the NFL among qualifying receivers.    PFF graded him 92 of 98 qualifying receivers.   

 

Awful.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

23 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Palmer is a solid football player 

 

I've literally been way less on Herbert than the majority of this board over the years

 

He's a stat stuffer who has been folding with the game on the line since college... I think Palmer will easily be putting up 700+ yards 

 

And I wouldn't be surprised to see Kincaid go up to 700 plus

 

 

Talking about Prather.

 

The guy they drafted in the 7th.  

 

As for Josh Palmer.......yeah they probably NEED 700+ yards from him.

 

If Kincaid doesn't break out in year 3 they should probably move on.  This will be his age 26 season already.   He almost put up 700 yards as a rookie but he was woefully inefficient/unimpactful and he doesn't bring physicality or toughness as an intangible.    So far he's been a poor man's Mike Gesicki.

[Richard Noggin]

20 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah Moore had a ghastly 44.5 passer rating when targeted last year.   An abysmal 8.8 yards per catch and 8 INT's when targeted.  He had the second worst YAC average(2.2) in the NFL among qualifying receivers.    PFF graded him 92 of 98 qualifying receivers.   

 

Awful.

 

 

And do those numbers fall dramatically short of the Browns' averages for WRs? Important to frame it within that context, although I'm immediately thinking Jeudy was MUCH more successful.

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Talking about Prather.

 

The guy they drafted in the 7th.  

 

As for Josh Palmer.......yeah they probably NEED 700+ yards from him.

 

If Kincaid doesn't break out in year 3 they should probably move on.  This will be his age 26 season already.   He almost put up 700 yards as a rookie but he was woefully inefficient/unimpactful and he doesn't bring physicality or toughness as an intangible.    So far he's been a poor man's Mike Gesicki.

I hear what you're saying though he actually has been blocking slightly better than advertised 

 

When we drafted him I said his blocking was not great but better than what the pundits thought.. I feel like he's still in that same mold

 

He'll never be a great move blocker but he has good aggressiveness and tenacity 

 

He needs a big season

[Richard Noggin]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Talking about Prather.

 

The guy they drafted in the 7th.  

 

As for Josh Palmer.......yeah they probably NEED 700+ yards from him.

 

If Kincaid doesn't break out in year 3 they should probably move on.  This will be his age 26 season already.   He almost put up 700 yards as a rookie but he was woefully inefficient/unimpactful and he doesn't bring physicality or toughness as an intangible.    So far he's been a poor man's Mike Gesicki.

 

For Kincaid I'm really curious about usage that first season (and since). SO MANY little dump-offs and check downs to the flat either behind or at the LOS. It was bizarre how Dorsey used him at first. Was Kincaid so inept at vertical route-running? Or was it an inability to read coverages on the fly and adjust while remaining on the same page as Allen? Or was it an inability or unwillingness by coaches to scheme such routes for Kincaid? Were they so scared of his blocking that they wouldn't line him up at Y for an advantage up the seam?

 

There are so many possible circumstances that could have influenced Dalton Kincaid's production to date. As fans we don't get to know if usage is a player problem or a coaching problem or what, exactly, but we can wonder...

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

And do those numbers fall dramatically short of the Browns' averages for WRs? Important to frame it within that context, although I'm immediately thinking Jeudy was MUCH more successful.

 

 

Judy was excellent.   Moore was garbage.   His only defense would be that after Cooper was traded he was overexposed.   He is out his depth as a starting slot receiver.    

 

I would equate him to Lil' Dummy McKenzie but with less yac ability.  

 

Remember when Dummy had that big game in NE and some fans started calling for him to be given the starting slot job?   But when they gave him that chance the following season he was killing drives, causing turnovers etc..  

 

That's what Moore did with his opportunity as well.

[Richard Noggin]

18 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Judy was excellent.   Moore was garbage.   His only defense would be that after Cooper was traded he was overexposed.   He is out his depth as a starting slot receiver.    

 

I would equate him to Lil' Dummy McKenzie but with less yac ability.  

 

Remember when Dummy had that big game in NE and some fans started calling for him to be given the starting slot job?   But when they gave him that chance the following season he was killing drives, causing turnovers etc..  

 

That's what Moore did with his opportunity as well.

 

That analogy is super effective, ya jerk

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

For Kincaid I'm really curious about usage that first season (and since). SO MANY little dump-offs and check downs to the flat either behind or at the LOS. It was bizarre how Dorsey used him at first. Was Kincaid so inept at vertical route-running? Or was it an inability to read coverages on the fly and adjust while remaining on the same page as Allen? Or was it an inability or unwillingness by coaches to scheme such routes for Kincaid? Were they so scared of his blocking that they wouldn't line him up at Y for an advantage up the seam?

 

There are so many possible circumstances that could have influenced Dalton Kincaid's production to date. As fans we don't get to know if usage is a player problem or a coaching problem or what, exactly, but we can wonder...

 

I think Kincaid and Moore suffer from somewhat of the same problem. When you watch them move on the field they both LOOK like NFL players whose pure athleticism and talent should make them super productive, which is why they both got drafted high. But NFL bust history is littered with great athletes who could never adjust to the speed of the NFL. I think that's the hardest thing to project from college to the pros and you just won't know if a player has what it takes until they get there.

 

Kincaid's terrible catch percentage this past season despite a low ADOT, while his counterpart in Knox was higher in both categories, is an indication that he wasn't ending up exactly where his QB expected him to be on targets. And Knox isn't exactly a cerebral player but he has developed more of a feel for the NFL game than Kincaid has as of yet. By the end of the season Brady had reverted Kincaid back to his rookie year usage of basic short routes and was only feeding Knox the downfield throws, so Brady was seeing the same things. Hopefully the light clicks for Kincaid this year, he would be far from the first player to have the game slow down for him in his 3rd year.

 

Having watched a fair amount of Moore's 2024 snaps over the past couple days, I see similar flaws in his game. He drifts on routes, he doesn't make himself an available target in zones, he gives away leverage to DBs which creates INT opportunities. He's a good but not elite route runner and he plays small with no catch radius to speak of. I know the common narrative with Bills fans and media right now is that Moore only underproduced because of Cleveland's QB situation, but NFL front offices are smarter than that. 25 year old WRs with great film that demonstrate a lot of untapped potential aren't available after the draft for $3.5M... The NFL is telling you who he is as a player. And unlike Kincaid we're entering year 5, not year 3, so it's much more likely Moore just is who he is at this point.

[Dr. Who]

54 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I think Kincaid and Moore suffer from somewhat of the same problem. When you watch them move on the field they both LOOK like NFL players whose pure athleticism and talent should make them super productive, which is why they both got drafted high. But NFL bust history is littered with great athletes who could never adjust to the speed of the NFL. I think that's the hardest thing to project from college to the pros and you just won't know if a player has what it takes until they get there.

 

Kincaid's terrible catch percentage this past season despite a low ADOT, while his counterpart in Knox was higher in both categories, is an indication that he wasn't ending up exactly where his QB expected him to be on targets. And Knox isn't exactly a cerebral player but he has developed more of a feel for the NFL game than Kincaid has as of yet. By the end of the season Brady had reverted Kincaid back to his rookie year usage of basic short routes and was only feeding Knox the downfield throws, so Brady was seeing the same things. Hopefully the light clicks for Kincaid this year, he would be far from the first player to have the game slow down for him in his 3rd year.

 

Having watched a fair amount of Moore's 2024 snaps over the past couple days, I see similar flaws in his game. He drifts on routes, he doesn't make himself an available target in zones, he gives away leverage to DBs which creates INT opportunities. He's a good but not elite route runner and he plays small with no catch radius to speak of. I know the common narrative with Bills fans and media right now is that Moore only underproduced because of Cleveland's QB situation, but NFL front offices are smarter than that. 25 year old WRs with great film that demonstrate a lot of untapped potential aren't available after the draft for $3.5M... The NFL is telling you who he is as a player. And unlike Kincaid we're entering year 5, not year 3, so it's much more likely Moore just is who he is at this point.

And all those clapping Beane on the back will be crying in their beer if Coleman doesn't make a leap, because it's hard to see where else the receiving room is going to offer significant improvement.

[K D]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

And all those clapping Beane on the back will be crying in their beer if Coleman doesn't make a leap, because it's hard to see where else the receiving room is going to offer significant improvement.

Coleman is exactly who he was in college if you watch his tape. A couple highlight catches, a lot of jump balls he doesn't come down with, and zero separation. And that was against college guys that are working at Starbucks now. I don't think there is a leap to be had. He will make a few plays to remind you he's on the team but be otherwise invisible most games with the defense draped all over him

 

And Worthy might go for 1000 yards but we don't want a guy like that. Meanwhile Beane signs Elijah Moore who is a slower and worse version of Worthy lol.

[Dr. Who]

11 minutes ago, K D said:

Coleman is exactly who he was in college if you watch his tape. A couple highlight catches, a lot of jump balls he doesn't come down with, and zero separation. And that was against college guys that are working at Starbucks now. I don't think there is a leap to be had. He will make a few plays to remind you he's on the team but be otherwise invisible most games with the defense draped all over him

 

And Worthy might go for 1000 yards but we don't want a guy like that. Meanwhile Beane signs Elijah Moore who is a slower and worse version of Worthy lol.

Yes, probably. There's a fella on the board who claims to have a friend who is cognizant of Coleman's offseason work that offers a more positive prognostication. I am not terribly ebullient about the WR room, but folks who believe everything is aces with the offense are in a heady mood just now.

[Richard Noggin]

47 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

And all those clapping Beane on the back will be crying in their beer if Coleman doesn't make a leap, because it's hard to see where else the receiving room is going to offer significant improvement.

 

Palmer has a legitimate chance to be that improvement over Hollins or Cooper, obviously. 

[Dr. Who]

6 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Palmer has a legitimate chance to be that improvement over Hollins or Cooper, obviously. 

Yes, I forget him, because I suspect he's not going to become a much more productive player just because Josh Allen is his qb. He might, though, and even if not, it's correct that his production could be an improvement over Hollins and an injured/washed Cooper.

[SectionC3]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah Moore had a ghastly 44.5 passer rating when targeted last year.   An abysmal 8.8 yards per catch and 8 INT's when targeted.  He had the second worst YAC average(2.2) in the NFL among qualifying receivers.    PFF graded him 92 of 98 qualifying receivers.   

 

Awful.

 

Sloppy route runner.  Will fit in well with Kincaid if Kincaid doesn't clean up his act. 

6 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Palmer has a legitimate chance to be that improvement over Hollins or Cooper, obviously. 

He better be.  Cooper wasn't that good.  Hollins was a lot better than anyone thought he would be.  We will miss Mack. 

[K D]

7 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

Yes, probably. There's a fella on the board who claims to have a friend who is cognizant of Coleman's offseason work that offers a more positive prognostication. I am not terribly ebullient about the WR room, but folks who believe everything is aces with the offense are in a heady mood just now.

I think Coleman has to improve to even be on the field. On any other NFL team I don't know if he's even dressing on game days. Lucky for him our top outside threat is the #3 guy from the Chargers followed by a bunch of tiny slot receivers. I think he will play by default and might put up some numbers but is he really improved or is he just the new Duke Williams and we don't have anybody else?

[ColoradoBills]

13 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

After Moore......who was awful last year.......the subsequent guys are nothing but practice squad fodder.   

 

 

 

LOL.  That is what WR 6 and 7 will be.

[BADOLBILZ]

7 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

LOL.  That is what WR 6 and 7 will be.

 

 

And yet you thought it was going to be a "big competition" already for spots 6 and 7 in the WR corps so no significant talent would be added. 😂 

 

[SoTier]

12 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

And yet you thought it was going to be a "big competition" already for spots 6 and 7 in the WR corps so no significant talent would be added. 😂 

 

 

A "big competition" can take place even if the competitors aren't very good.