Matt Parrino - "Claypool has been most consistent WR during OTAs"

[GunnerBill]

  On 6/11/2024 at 1:09 PM, Magox said:

 

The zone defenses he likes to primarily use are successful during the season but against Mahomes and Burrow they carve it up.   

 

I think eventually they need to do what some of the other top defenses do which is play a higher level of snaps of physical man coverage.    Unfortunately we don't really have the personnel to do that, if Elam can become who the Bills thought he could be he could be an option but the other boundary guys are not man specialists.

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I think that is their plan and they have actually done some of it against KC in the last two regular season matchups. The problem is they have played the playoffs the last three years missing major pieces in their secondary and with guys hobbled. It's really hard to play a ton of man and be successful when you are down to your backups. They have to be better at stopping the elite offenses in the playoffs, but part of that for a defense that is built on fundamentals and chemistry rather than elite difference makers, is going to rely on being luckier with health. 

[Paup 1995MVP]

  On 6/10/2024 at 6:51 PM, Cray51 said:

In aggregate, Davis year to year is a #3 on a top 5 offense.  I'd love if Claypool can do that.  There are legit questions as to whether he can.  I'm hopeful

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I just looked up Gabe's stats for his 4 years on the Bills.  And that's a fair assessment of his production.  Just wish he would have been more dominant on a week in, week out basis.  

 

It will be interesting to see what Claypool can do with a great QB.

[Cray51]

  On 6/11/2024 at 7:10 PM, Paup 1995MVP said:

I just looked up Gabe's stats for his 4 years on the Bills.  And that's a fair assessment of his production.  Just wish he would have been more dominant on a week in, week out basis.  

 

It will be interesting to see what Claypool can do with a great QB.

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Gabe may be one of the most polarizing players for fans/local media/national media.  His stats are that of a #3, has never had a season above 850 yards, and has a sub 60% catch rate.  However, he is a plus blocker, and seemed to have some really good games where he would explode.

 

I think not giving him 14M a year was incredibly smart, his pure production can be replaced for a fraction.  However, I'll be interested to see who takes the blocking detail in our zone run schemes.  If Claypool or Coleman can use their size to block DBs, Gabe wont me missed for a second

[Bruffalo]

I really like the Shout! podcast and Matt Parrino, but I would take his opinion with a hefty dose of salt. He always falls in love with guys who realistically never had a shot at making the roster and talks them up a lot.

[Paup 1995MVP]

  On 6/11/2024 at 7:40 PM, Cray51 said:

Gabe may be one of the most polarizing players for fans/local media/national media.  His stats are that of a #3, has never had a season above 850 yards, and has a sub 60% catch rate.  However, he is a plus blocker, and seemed to have some really good games where he would explode.

 

I think not giving him 14M a year was incredibly smart, his pure production can be replaced for a fraction.  However, I'll be interested to see who takes the blocking detail in our zone run schemes.  If Claypool or Coleman can use their size to block DBs, Gabe wont me missed for a second

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I agree 100.  Gabe is not a 14M/year pro football player.  He is a good teammate and works hard.  But does not have exceptional athletic ability for the NFL game.  Not everyone does.  Doesn't mean he can't play because he can.  (Compared to a Trent Sherfield he is all world.)  He just doesn't have any special traits that make him indispensable to an NFL roster. 

 

Really surprised how much Jacksonville paid him.  (But then again not really.  Something about that franchise and Doug Pederson that kind of screams clown show-sure Pederson won a Super Bowl w the Eagles.  But I like the way McDermott runs an NFL team a whole lot better then the Pederson way)

[Sierra Foothills]

  On 6/8/2024 at 7:35 PM, GoBills808 said:

I thought there was nowhere for them to go but up wrt the wideouts but here we are praying for a Chase Claypool turnaround😂😂

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Who's praying for a Chase Claypool turnaround?

 

It's doubtful anyone here is but if so, you can bet there's an equal number of posters here praying for him to fail, so they're proven correct.

 

  On 6/9/2024 at 12:44 PM, oldmanfan said:

Claypool either straightens up or he doesn’t.  Simple.  As for the rest of the WRs and the offense in general, when it clicks and Josh is spreading the ball around and the offense is among the league leaders I hope some here will have the decency to come back and acknowledge they were wrong.

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  On 6/9/2024 at 3:25 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

I will be right here to say

 

 

And the homer's like yourself who insisted that it was going to work splendidly or was a case of the Bills being ahead of the curve........they run and hide from it when it doesn't go nearly as well as planned.

 

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BADOL: "And the homer's like yourself who insisted that it was going to work splendidly or was a case of the Bills being ahead of the curve........they run and hide from it when it doesn't go nearly as well as planned."

 

Witness the continued superiority of acumen and character of the great BADOL!!!

 

Not only will he admit when he is wrong (according to himself) but he'll do so when "homers run and hide."

 

All Hail BADOL!!!

 

What a privilege to be in your presence.

 

 

Edited June 11, 2024 by Sierra Foothills

[GoBills808]

  On 6/11/2024 at 10:16 PM, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Who's praying for a Chase Claypool turnaround?

 

It's doubtful anyone here is but if so, you can bet there's an equal number of posters here praying for him to fail, so they're proven correct.

 

 

 

BADOL: "And the homer's like yourself who insisted that it was going to work splendidly or was a case of the Bills being ahead of the curve........they run and hide from it when it doesn't go nearly as well as planned."

 

Witness the continued superiority of acumen and character of the great BADOL!!!

 

Not only will he admit when he is wrong (according to himself) but he'll do so when "homers run and hide."

 

All Hail BADOL!!!

 

What a privilege to be in your presence.

 

 

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Nobody is praying Claypool fails, some just think it's more likely than others

[Sierra Foothills]

  On 6/11/2024 at 10:31 PM, GoBills808 said:

Nobody is praying Claypool fails, some just think it's more likely than others

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Rewinding a bit, you said "but here we are praying for a Chase Claypool turnaround😂😂"

 

1) Who's praying in your estimation?

2) You think the people who want to see him succeed are praying but those who think he'll fail don't really care one way or the other?

 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

  On 6/11/2024 at 10:16 PM, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Who's praying for a Chase Claypool turnaround?

 

It's doubtful anyone here is but if so, you can bet there's an equal number of posters here praying for him to fail, so they're proven correct.

 

 

 

BADOL: "And the homer's like yourself who insisted that it was going to work splendidly or was a case of the Bills being ahead of the curve........they run and hide from it when it doesn't go nearly as well as planned."

 

Witness the continued superiority of acumen and character of the great BADOL!!!

 

Not only will he admit when he is wrong (according to himself) but he'll do so when "homers run and hide."

 

All Hail BADOL!!!

 

What a privilege to be in your presence.

 

 

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To be fair I *am* praying for a Chase Claypool turnaround but I'm going to be honest: 

 

A) Chase Claypool was no part of what I saw as a model for a functioning offense immediately post draft. I think heavy motion, play action, screens, condensed formations, multiple formations from the same personnel groupings could be effective running 12 with Shakir, Samuel, Kincaid, Knox and Cook while being able to make that a heavy 11 or 22 for run plays.

 

So a thriving Claypool would be a nice arrow in the quiver but the season will not live or die on whether he lives up to his potential.

 

B) I see a Claypool resurgence more likely than Andy Isabella or Justin Shorter exploding as league sensations. I don't think that anyone denies Claypool's physical gifts and he *has* had success in the league. Schlubs don't typically have back to back 800+ yard seasons.

 

The issue the past few years has been discipline and motivation. I'm taking it with a grain of salt but if he's finally had the "come to Jesus" moment where generational wealth is on the table if he can focus for 6-7 months...well that would motivate me.

[Sierra Foothills]

  On 6/11/2024 at 11:44 PM, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

To be fair I *am* praying for a Chase Claypool turnaround but I'm going to be honest: 

 

So a thriving Claypool would be a nice arrow in the quiver but the season will not live or die on whether he lives up to his potential.

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I've edited down your post to these two sentences... so the second sentence should be interpreted as you "praying?"

 

If yes, so be it... but it doesn't sound like praying.

 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

  On 6/11/2024 at 11:49 PM, Sierra Foothills said:

 

I've edited down your post to these two sentences... so the second sentence should be interpreted as you "praying?"

 

If yes, so be it... but it doesn't sound like praying.

 

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I can pray to win the lottery AND plan to go to work in the morning 

[GoBills808]

  On 6/11/2024 at 10:56 PM, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Rewinding a bit, you said "but here we are praying for a Chase Claypool turnaround😂😂"

 

1) Who's praying in your estimation?

2) You think the people who want to see him succeed are praying but those who think he'll fail don't really care one way or the other?

 

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1-I am

 

2- no idea

 

 

[Billl]

  On 6/11/2024 at 7:40 PM, Cray51 said:

Gabe may be one of the most polarizing players for fans/local media/national media.  His stats are that of a #3, has never had a season above 850 yards, and has a sub 60% catch rate.  However, he is a plus blocker, and seemed to have some really good games where he would explode.

 

I think not giving him 14M a year was incredibly smart, his pure production can be replaced for a fraction.  However, I'll be interested to see who takes the blocking detail in our zone run schemes.  If Claypool or Coleman can use their size to block DBs, Gabe wont me missed for a second

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Last season, Gabe had the 41st most yards and 17th most TDs of any WR in the league.

In 2022 he had the 30th most yards and 12th most TDs.

 

That is high end WR2 production.

[BADOLBILZ]

  On 6/12/2024 at 12:50 AM, Billl said:

Last season, Gabe had the 41st most yards and 17th most TDs of any WR in the league.

In 2022 he had the 30th most yards and 12th most TDs.

 

That is high end WR2 production.

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Depends on what you mean by "high end".

 

In recent years 4-6 teams have had 2 receiving targets rank in the top 32 in yards receiving.

 

Including, regularly, your Chiefs.  

 

Having 2 top receiving targets has become one of the greatest indicators of whether your team has a legitimate chance to be playing on Super Bowl Sunday or not.

 

So..............I think THAT second target on those teams is the real "high end".

 

The Bills were one of those teams with 2 top 32 receiving targets back in 2020.........which is the farthest they've advanced in a postseason with Allen.

[Victory Formation]

  On 6/5/2024 at 3:59 PM, Brand J said:

I’m a Keon Coleman fan, I loved his highlight video more than most of the receivers coming out. With that said, Parrino also mentioned Jamarcus Ingram was holding his own with Coleman, even had the defensive sideline hooting and hollering. I wasn’t bothered when I heard Elam was getting the better of him on some reps, but now Jamarcus Ingram? Hmmm…

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Time to get Cole Beasley out of retirement.

[Billl]

  On 6/12/2024 at 1:38 AM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Depends on what you mean by "high end".

 

In recent years 4-6 teams have had 2 receiving targets rank in the top 32 in yards receiving.

 

Including, regularly, your Chiefs.  

 

Having 2 top receiving targets has become one of the greatest indicators of whether your team has a legitimate chance to be playing on Super Bowl Sunday or not.

 

So..............I think THAT second target on those teams is the real "high end".

 

The Bills were one of those teams with 2 top 32 receiving targets back in 2020.........which is the farthest they've advanced in a postseason with Allen.

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Yeah, he’s not an elite WR2, but he’s certainly top half.  Since he’s been in the league, Davis has 2,730 yards receiving and 27 TDs.  Here is a list of WRs who have as many yards and TDs as he does over that span:

Tyreek Hill

Ceedee Lamb

AJ Brown

Stefon Diggs

Davante Adams

Adam Thielen

Jamar Chase

Tyler Lockett

Mike Evans

Amari Cooper

Justin Jefferson

DK Metcalf

Cooper Kupp

[BADOLBILZ]

  On 6/11/2024 at 10:56 PM, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Rewinding a bit, you said "but here we are praying for a Chase Claypool turnaround😂😂"

 

1) Who's praying in your estimation?

2) You think the people who want to see him succeed are praying but those who think he'll fail don't really care one way or the other?

 

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 I doubt any Bills fan is praying against or rooting against Claypool.    That's just a narrative that some dipsh!ts try to cultivate because they(you) are offended by the objective opinion on a hot-mess of a player like Claypool.

 

Fact: there aren't many outside observers who expect Claypool to turn his career around.  He's an afterthought to a thought almost nobody outside of Buffalo is even having.

 

I've been among the most skeptical of Claypool's prospects but I'd love to be wrong about something that makes the Bills better.    There are no awards for being right on TSW.   Even the skeptical root for the laundry and somehow that's lost on some of TSW's blind homer's.  

 

I've agreed with a lot of what this Bills regime has done but they still haven't succeeded very often at proving me wrong on things I've disagreed with.

 

And yes, you are welcome for the content. 

[BADOLBILZ]

  On 6/12/2024 at 1:55 AM, Billl said:

Yeah, he’s not an elite WR2, but he’s certainly top half.  Since he’s been in the league, Davis has 2,730 yards receiving and 27 TDs.  Here is a list of WRs who have as many yards and TDs as he does over that span:

Tyreek Hill

Ceedee Lamb

AJ Brown

Stefon Diggs

Davante Adams

Adam Thielen

Jamar Chase

Tyler Lockett

Mike Evans

Amari Cooper

Justin Jefferson

DK Metcalf

Cooper Kupp

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That's a nice argument for Gabe's agent........but not particularly relevant because you don't win a Super Bowl "in aggregate".

 

It's about having those 2 guys producing WR1 type numbers in the same year.

 

In the last 3 seasons 3 different WR have been the second best receiving target on the Chiefs and finished in the top 32 in receiving yardage in the NFL.......Tyreek, Juju and Rice.

 

Gabe never did.

[GoBills808]

  On 6/12/2024 at 2:06 AM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

That's a nice argument for Gabe's agent........but not particularly relevant because you don't win a Super Bowl "in aggregate".

 

It's about having those 2 guys producing WR1 type numbers in the same year.

 

In the last 3 seasons 3 different WR have been the second best receiving target on the Chiefs and finished in the top 32 in receiving yardage in the NFL.......Tyreek, Juju and Rice.

 

Gabe never did.

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It's also worth mentioning skill players in this offense are going to have outsize TD numbers relative to their actual talent...which is how Dawson Knox found himself among top TEs for touchdowns two years ago

 

If you go by the traditional yards measurement you bring in more guys above Davis

Edited June 12, 2024 by GoBills808
Relative not relevant

[Billl]

  On 6/12/2024 at 2:06 AM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

That's a nice argument for Gabe's agent........but not particularly relevant because you don't win a Super Bowl "in aggregate".

 

It's about having those 2 guys producing WR1 type numbers in the same year.

 

In the last 3 seasons 3 different WR have been the second best receiving target on the Chiefs and finished in the top 32 in receiving yardage in the NFL.......Tyreek, Juju and Rice.

 

Gabe never did.

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I agree with you.  Just thought it was an interesting list.  I’ve just never understood the amount of disrespect Gabe gets around here.  The guy was the 128th pick in the draft, and has wildly outproduced any reasonable expectations.  His worst season ever was 63 targets resulting in 549 yards, 6 TDs, and 8.7 yards per target.  Everyone here slobbers over Kincaid who just had 91 targets resulting in 673 yards, 2 TDs, and 7.4 yards per target.  

 

And yes, Kincaid was a rookie, but he’s only 6 months younger than Gabe.  When Gabe was 23, he had 93 targets for 837 yards, 7 TDs and 9 yards per target.  Guys who produce at that level aren’t easy to find.  When you do find them, they’re generally much more expensive in terms of salary and/or draft capital than what Davis was.