Harrison Butker…oy vey…what a commencement “speech”

[Bermuda Triangle]

 

[Beck Water]

14 hours ago, Bob Jones said:

One thing that was very interesting to me was the NFL's need to come out with a (puzzling) response for this.

 

First off, is there EVER a time when a player speaks on behalf of the NFL? Or for that matter, even on behalf of their respective teams? I don’t think so, although maybe somebody can correct me. Both the NFL and all teams have PR departments that speak for them. My belief is that players ALWAYS  speak just for themselves.

 

Secondly, the NFL made a point to say that they are "inclusive" to everybody. My reading of Butker's speech sees nothing that says certain people shouldn't be NFL fans, or NFL refs, or NFL/team employees. The main complaint was that he wants women to be "barefoot and pregnant, and in the kitchen." I'm pretty sure that even if the latter accusation was true (it's not), he'd still want them to be NFL fans, and watch games on Sundays, Mondays, Thursday, Saturdays, and Christmas, or buy NFL gear. LOL  Also, you can opine that transgenderism is wrong and is a mental illness, but that doesn’t mean you dislike those folks, or that you don't want them to be fans.

 

Finally, the biggest criticism of the NFL was that were very quick to respond to this while they stay silent on many other  cases where their players are doing things FAR WORSE than what Butker did. IMO, that criticism is justly deserved.

 

I think there are times when a player is assumed to speak for a team - which is why the NFL fines players and coaches who openly criticize officiating or NFL policy.

 

There are certainly times when players are asked to do PSAs or publicity appearances for both teams and for the NFL itself, at which times they are assumed to speak for the NFL and the NFL would rightly be held to have "skin in the game" about what they said.

 

It's a pretty good distortion of what Butker said to frame it as "barefoot pregnant and in the kitchen", nor do I think the people who object are framing it that way (I'm certainly not).  

 

What Butker actually said was not limited to transgender.  He referred to "dangerous gender ideologies", true, but he also talked about the "deadly sin sort of pride that has an entire month dedicated to it", a pretty clear reference to PRIDE month which is about LGBTQ, not simply T.  If you think someone is living their life according to "dangerous ideologies" or "deadly sin", is it unreasonable to question whether you believe these people should have a right to live their lives in peace and safety in our communities?

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

[iccrewman112]

On 5/15/2024 at 9:41 AM, Logic said:

4.) It seems somewhat bizarre to tell a bunch of women who are about to graduate from college that they ought to stick to the kitchen instead.

maybe he thought he was speaking at the graduation for a culinary school!?!?

[Bill from NYC]

22 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Bill, you and I think some others keep referring to Benedictine College as a "parochial school".

 

Why?  It is literally not a parochial school.

 

I agree with defending his right to speak his mind, and that is, after all, what he was invited to do.  But freedom of speech has never meant freedom from consequences arising from that speech, from editorials and social media posts objecting to it, to extra income from jersey sales (I think the players get a %?), to people who want him zapped out of the league.

 

I don't agree with the latter, but it happened with Colin Kaepernick and I have an inkling that some of the same people who wanted Kaepernick kicked to the curb permanently are the same ones objecting to anyone wanting likewise for Butker.  

Even if the bold is true, so what?  It would appear to be another example of free speech, and Kaepernik suffered the consequences that you mentioned above for his actions (in addition to being a lousy quarterback). Some people wanted Kaepernik to be lauded. Others wanted him banned. Personally I think that in retrospect, things worked out well. 

And as far as Benedictine not having religious connotations, see below:

 

What does being Benedictine mean?

Benedictine, member of any of the confederated congregations of monks, lay brothers, and nuns who follow the rule of life of St. Benedict (c. 480–c. 547) and who are spiritual descendants of the traditional monastics of the early medieval centuries in Italy and Gaul. 

 

Ya see, a frequent problem with you intelectuals is that you sometimes have a habit of too often splitting hairs.  

Edited May 21 by Bill from NYC

[boyst]

12 hours ago, Beck Water said:

I don't agree with the latter, but it happened with Colin Kaepernick and I have an inkling that some of the same people who wanted Kaepernick kicked to the curb permanently are the same ones objecting to anyone wanting likewise for Butker.  

i wanted it to stop with Kaep because it was happening on the field. i wanted it to stop because it started as disingenuous and a schtick with his police pig socks. kaep also openly disrespected the flag and trampled on his freedom he is afforded which, while i agree with, just show he is a moron. he started it as a sideshow and while he ran his mouth it took way too long for him to actually begin any activism with financial ability or even anything more than speaking.

 

if butker went and started ranting on and on about the sky fairy during a game or refused to stand for the anthem because the holy spirit said he shouldn't i would be just as annoyed and have the same beliefs. butker could be a member of the church of satan and sacrifice goats to jobo like the dude from major league and i wouldn't care as long as he does it on his own time. 

 

butker is silly for voicing his beliefs but also i applaud him for having the toughness to do so. this is also true for kaepernick. it takes bravery to say anything that can cause you trouble. it doesn't even have to be smart. a fool can be brave.

Edited May 20 by boyst

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

This is just silliness.

Agree. That is pathetic.

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, boyst said:

i wanted it to stop with Kaep because it was happening on the field. i wanted it to stop because it started as disingenuous and a schtick with his police pig socks. kaep also openly disrespected the flag and trampled on his freedom he is afforded which, while i agree with, just show he is a moron. he started it as a sideshow and while he ran his mouth it took way too long for him to actually begin any activism with financial ability or even anything more than speaking.

 

if butker went and started ranting on and on about the sky fairy during a game or refused to stand for the anthem because the holy spirit said he shouldn't i would be just as annoyed and have the same beliefs. butker could be a member of the church of satan and sacrifice goats to jobo like the dude from major league and i wouldn't care as long as he does it on his own time. 

 

butker is silly for voicing his beliefs but also i applaud him for having the toughness to do so. this is also true for kaepernick. it takes bravery to say anything that can cause you trouble. it doesn't even have to be smart. a fool can be brave.

 

I understand the points you are making. 

I also have to point out the "I support free speech and hate cancel culture BUT" aspect:  seems to me that every time someone wants the views a person is expressing to stop ("cancelled" in the modern lingo), they typically have "but REASONS" why this case is an exception to their free speech support. 

So you have your "I support ....BUT...." reasons why you feel Kaepernick was different and other people have their "I support.....BUT...." reasons like the foolishness @Bob Jones quoted lobbying to replace Butker with a female kicker SMDH.  From one viewpoint they have their similarities.

[Beck Water]

5 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Even if the bold is true, so what?  It would appear to be another example of free speech, and Capernik suffered the consequences that you mentioned above for his actions (in addition to being a lousy quarterback). Some people wanted Capernik to be lauded. Others wanted him banned. Personally I think that in retrospect, things worked out well. 

And as far as Benedictine not having religious connotations, see below:

 

What does being Benedictine mean?

Benedictine, member of any of the confederated congregations of monks, lay brothers, and nuns who follow the rule of life of St. Benedict (c. 480–c. 547) and who are spiritual descendants of the traditional monastics of the early medieval centuries in Italy and Gaul. 

 

Ya see, a frequent problem with you intellectuals is that you sometimes have a habit of too often splitting hairs.  

 

To your "even if the bolded is true, so what?" the "so what?" is the apparent hypocrisy of the same people who are up in arms about attempts to "cancel" Butker when they found {*reasons*} why the same attempts towards Kaepernick were OK or even well justified.

 

No one including me is arguing that Benedictine College is not a private college affiliated with the Catholic Church, so you including the definition of "Benedictine" here is beside the point.

 

The point is, a "parochial school" is a small pond.  It means literally, a school affiliated with a parish, a small organization within the Catholic church.  The impact of a parish school (usually k through 8 grade) is limited.  A small little cog even in the local Archdiocese which is a small cog in the Catholic Church.

A Catholic university or college which has nationwide or possibly international admission, has bigger scope and is a bigger platform.  That's the significant difference.

 

You want to see it as "splitting hairs" and cap it off with some ad-hominem-ish crack about "intellectuals", Whatever. 

Never did see your response to my attempt to give you a serious and thoughtful response to your valid question about "why care?" - did I just miss that?  Or are you just in to pick nits and not interested in the work of the knee length comb-out?

Edited May 20 by Beck Water

[boyst]

35 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I understand the points you are making. 

I also have to point out the "I support free speech and hate cancel culture BUT" aspect:  seems to me that every time someone wants the views a person is expressing to stop ("cancelled" in the modern lingo), they typically have "but REASONS" why this case is an exception to their free speech support. 

So you have your "I support ....BUT...." reasons why you feel Kaepernick was different and other people have their "I support.....BUT...." reasons like the foolishness @Bob Jones quoted lobbying to replace Butker with a female kicker SMDH.  From one viewpoint they have their similarities.

I support his right to free speech at work but not his protesting for results unfavorable to himself. I work for a German company, so I walk in there every day and point at the scoreboard? No, I'm not a moron... Wait... Well I'm not that stupid ...how about that....

[Mark Vader]

On 5/16/2024 at 5:35 AM, BillsFooteball said:

Welp. Yeah this is just something we are completely opposite beliefs in so won’t get anywhere. Doesn’t matter what we think but very happy to see the NFL already swatted down his ignorant comments. Wonder why they would do that. 

I wonder why, as well. 

 

Was he speaking on behalf of the NFL? Was he addressing a group who is associated with the NFL?

[ImpactCorey]

14 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

I wonder why, as well. 

 

Was he speaking on behalf of the NFL? Was he addressing a group who is associated with the NFL?

 

No but I'm sure he was introduced as "NFL Kicker and Super Bowl Champion Harrison Butker" rather than "Some Random Catholic".  He wouldn't have been asked to speak otherwise.  It would be the same as any other company.  For example if he was introduced as "Delta Airlines pilot Harrison Butker" then Delta would likely have done the same thing if there was backlash.  Like it or not, your opinions reflect on your employer when their name is brought up right before you open your mouth.  The NFL was just making it clear that the message in this case was Butker's alone.

Edited May 20 by ImpactCorey

[Mark Vader]

2 minutes ago, ImpactCorey said:

 

No but I'm sure he was introduced as "NFL Kicker and Super Bowl Champion Harrison Butker" rather than "Some Random Catholic".  He wouldn't have been asked to speak otherwise.  It would be the same as any other company.  For example if he was introduced as "Delta Airlines pilot Harrison Butker" then Delta would likely have done the same thing if there was backlash.  Like it or not, your opinions reflect on your employer when their name is brought up right before you open your mouth.  The NFL was just making it clear that the message in this case was Butker's alone.

In that case I await the moment that the NFL apologizes for raping the fans of all their capitol when they are forced to spend thousands of dollars on PSL's before they can buy season tickets.

 

Also, how they extort fans by forcing them to buy streaming services, because they can only watch these games on there with no alternatives whatsoever. Including playoff games.

[ImpactCorey]

1 minute ago, Mark Vader said:

In that case I await the moment that the NFL apologizes for raping the fans of all their capitol when they are forced to spend thousands of dollars on PSL's before they can buy season tickets.

 

Also, how they extort fans by forcing them to buy streaming services, because they can only watch these games on there with no alternatives whatsoever. Including playoff games.

 

I mean its a business and that's capitalism I suppose, but I think that's a totally different conversation.

[Mark Vader]

2 minutes ago, ImpactCorey said:

 

I mean its a business and that's capitalism I suppose, but I think that's a totally different conversation.

The way I see it, if they feel the need to apologize to the fans for a player's comments at a commencement speech, and not apologize to the fans for extorting them, then they have their issues really screwed up.

[ImpactCorey]

28 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

The way I see it, if they feel the need to apologize to the fans for a player's comments at a commencement speech, and not apologize to the fans for extorting them, then they have their issues really screwed up.

 

I'm not interested in going back and forth on an unrelated topic where you clearly have an axe to grind but I do find it necessary to point out that the NFL never apologized for the comments.  They simply said they were Butker's views and did not reflect those of the organization.  Perhaps they will issue an apology which I would find surprising, but they have not done so yet.

[Bill from NYC]

8 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

To your "even if the bolded is true, so what?" the "so what?" is the apparent hypocrisy of the same people who are up in arms about attempts to "cancel" Butker when they found {*reasons*} why the same attempts towards Kaepernick were OK or even well justified.

 

Ok, I'll play.....

 

Of the people who fully supported the actions of Kaepernik and his right to free speech, how many of these folks are now butt hurt by the remarks of this other football player? I suspect almost all of them but that doesn't seem to bother you. It appears that you are only offended by those who do not adhere to your own specific credo which is imposing and unreasonable.

 

I think that folks are allowed to have opinions and speak their minds, even if you morally object or even just plain disagree. This is why I don't care what this place kicker says as an invited guest of a religious school. I think that many who are not so demanding, self rightous, and dictatorial might agree.

 

Wait.....you? Dictatorial? Brings back memories. 😯😂

Edited May 21 by Bill from NYC

[T&C]

1 hour ago, Mark Vader said:

In that case I await the moment that the NFL apologizes for raping the fans of all their capitol when they are forced to spend thousands of dollars on PSL's before they can buy season tickets.

 

Also, how they extort fans by forcing them to buy streaming services, because they can only watch these games on there with no alternatives whatsoever. Including playoff games.

I disagree with this. There are plenty.

[Mark Vader]

45 minutes ago, ImpactCorey said:

 

I'm not interested in going back and forth on an unrelated topic where you clearly have an axe to grind but I do find it necessary to point out that the NFL never apologized for the comments.  They simply said they were Butker's views and did not reflect those of the organization.  Perhaps they will issue an apology which I would find surprising, but they have not done so yet.

The NFL didn't need to issue a statement regarding Butker's speech at all.

 

Doing so makes it seem like Butker speaks for the NFL, and that is not the case.

Edited May 20 by Mark Vader