Bills vs Lions 2022, 23 seconds, what do we do?

[Mikie2times]

 

 

So why would we decide now that being aggressive in this situation isn't the right course of action? It's one thing to always say that is or isn't the right decision. That could be interpreted as somewhat philosophical even if it is against the probabilities. But to switch for no apparent reason. It just shows the level of planning and detail in these moments. It's based on gut feeling in the moment and not long term planning and probabilities. 

[Ray Stonada]

Did we have two or even three timeouts in that situation?

[Mikie2times]

Just now, Ray Stonada said:

Did we have two or even three timeouts in that situation?

We had all three I believe. It took 7 seconds and one timeout to be in FG range. Basically identical situations. Are you're implying the lack of two additional timeouts should have altered the decision? 

[Arkady Renko]

I think McD got spooked by the Hail Mary interceptions in the Jets game and in the Black Friday game. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

5 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

 

 

So why would we decide now that being aggressive in this situation isn't the right course of action? It's one thing to always say that is or isn't the right decision. That could be interpreted as somewhat philosophical even if it is against the probabilities. But to switch for no apparent reason. It just shows the level of planning and detail in these moments. It's based on gut feeling in the moment and not long term planning and probabilities. 

I get what you're saying and you're not wrong. Situations were a bit different.

 

Dome Vs Rainy weather with wet ball

Lions pass rush last year Vs Eagles pass rush

3 TOs vs 1 TO.

 

Plus McDermott gets 30 seconds real time to weigh all this and decide. You have the benefit of hindsight to see how it played out and 2 days to think about it.

 

Again NOT SAYING HE MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE, however if he would have gone for it and there was a sack/strip, or an INT with a big return or any other number of things that would have resulted in the Bills losing in regulation, MANY of the the same people crucifying him for the kneel down would be crucifying him saying "You don't go for it in that spot, in that weather against that pass rush! Fire him NOW"

[NoSaint]

6 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I get what you're saying and you're not wrong. Situations were a bit different.

 

Dome Vs Rainy weather with wet ball

Lions pass rush last year Vs Eagles pass rush

3 TOs vs 1 TO.

 

Plus McDermott gets 30 seconds real time to weigh all this and decide. You have the benefit of hindsight to see how it played out and 2 days to think about it.

 

Again NOT SAYING HE MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE, however if he would have gone for it and there was a sack/strip, or an INT with a big return or any other number of things that would have resulted in the Bills losing in regulation, MANY of the the same people crucifying him for the kneel down would be crucifying him saying "You don't go for it in that spot, in that weather against that pass rush! Fire him NOW"

Yes, a fumble should be near impossible if you coach your team effectively in that situation. This wasn’t coming from behind desperation, it was put pressure on the defense while taking zero risks 

[Mikie2times]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I get what you're saying and you're not wrong. Situations were a bit different.

 

Dome Vs Rainy weather with wet ball

Lions pass rush last year Vs Eagles pass rush

3 TOs vs 1 TO.

 

Plus McDermott gets 30 seconds real time to weigh all this and decide. You have the benefit of hindsight to see how it played out and 2 days to think about it.

 

Again NOT SAYING HE MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE, however if he would have gone for it and there was a sack/strip, or an INT with a big return or any other number of things that would have resulted in the Bills losing in regulation, MANY of the the same people crucifying him for the kneel down would be crucifying him saying "You don't go for it in that spot, in that weather against that pass rush! Fire him NOW"

Every decision has probabilities to each side. Coaches have to make decisions that put those probabilities in the teams favor. Had he pressed and disaster struck he could confidently say in his post game that we knew the probabilities of that situation so we went for it. Sometimes it doesn't work out but I would make the same decision again. If that occurred no, I wouldn't crucify him. You can make this argument all you want and it's a common one at this point but it's just not valid for this. It's like me saying, well, he drove drunk and it just didn't work out, but I'm only saying that because he didn't make it home ok.   

[QCity]

9 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I get what you're saying and you're not wrong. Situations were a bit different.

 

Dome Vs Rainy weather with wet ball

Lions pass rush last year Vs Eagles pass rush

3 TOs vs 1 TO.

 

Plus McDermott gets 30 seconds real time to weigh all this and decide. You have the benefit of hindsight to see how it played out and 2 days to think about it.

 

Again NOT SAYING HE MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE, however if he would have gone for it and there was a sack/strip, or an INT with a big return or any other number of things that would have resulted in the Bills losing in regulation, MANY of the the same people crucifying him for the kneel down would be crucifying him saying "You don't go for it in that spot, in that weather against that pass rush! Fire him NOW"

 

You're absolutely right.

[Mikie2times]

Just now, QCity said:

 

You're absolutely right.

So you trust McD's intuition over analytics in this situation?

 

I'm curious exactly what weights McD's brain gives to all of those factors. If those weights change based on his mood or as one poster said, being spooked by a halftime INT by the Jets. How consistent his decision making is in these moments when he has to use his human computer to analyze the best outcomes.  I wonder if he was using that computer when he called his 3rd down timeout or if his intuition told him to Ice the kicker. Give me a break. Anybody worth a salt knows this game is becoming more about science than feeling. You can blend both concepts but to defy them is just an outright error in judgement.  

[QCity]

Just now, Mikie2times said:

So you trust McD's intuition over analytics in this situation?

 

 

 

No. He's right in saying 1) The situations were completely different and 2) Since we lost people were going to crucify McD regardless of his decision. That's all.

[DrDawkinstein]

15 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I get what you're saying and you're not wrong. Situations were a bit different.

 

Dome Vs Rainy weather with wet ball

Lions pass rush last year Vs Eagles pass rush

3 TOs vs 1 TO.

 

Plus McDermott gets 30 seconds real time to weigh all this and decide. You have the benefit of hindsight to see how it played out and 2 days to think about it.

 

Again NOT SAYING HE MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE, however if he would have gone for it and there was a sack/strip, or an INT with a big return or any other number of things that would have resulted in the Bills losing in regulation, MANY of the the same people crucifying him for the kneel down would be crucifying him saying "You don't go for it in that spot, in that weather against that pass rush! Fire him NOW"

 

If disaster struck, I dont think folks would be killing him for going for it.

 

I do think folks would then (rightfully) criticize him about "How can you not make sure your QB knows to throw it away if there is any pressure or tight coverage? They had plenty of time to talk about it before the drive started!"

 

Kinda like "How can you not make sure your kicker knows to squib it?"

[dorquemada]

28 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

 

 

So why would we decide now that being aggressive in this situation isn't the right course of action? It's one thing to always say that is or isn't the right decision. That could be interpreted as somewhat philosophical even if it is against the probabilities. But to switch for no apparent reason. It just shows the level of planning and detail in these moments. It's based on gut feeling in the moment and not long term planning and probabilities. 

 

"We really should have taken a knee that would have been much more sporting than cheapening the true spirit of the game.  After all only grade grubbers count wins and losses, gentlemen recognize that it's the friends we make along the way that make us true champions"

 

-Mcdumby, probably

[Mikie2times]

1 minute ago, QCity said:

 

No. He's right in saying 1) The situations were completely different and 2) Since we lost people were going to crucify McD regardless of his decision. That's all.

I don’t like the notion of dismissing a bad choice with that argument. Fans will be fans. I’m not going disagree with that concept.

[BuffaloBillyG]

36 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

Yes, a fumble should be near impossible if you coach your team effectively in that situation. This wasn’t coming from behind desperation, it was put pressure on the defense while taking zero risks 

Again, in that situation a lot can happen...and most of it is bad. Someone getting quick pressure and causing a sack/fumble is a possibility.

 

Not like we have a QB that may try and make a big play and make a mistake at time  tho, right?

23 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

If disaster struck, I dont think folks would be killing him for going for it.

 

I do think folks would then (rightfully) criticize him about "How can you not make sure your QB knows to throw it away if there is any pressure or tight coverage? They had plenty of time to talk about it before the drive started!"

 

Kinda like "How can you not make sure your kicker knows to squib it?"

Main point was those that would want to criticize would be critical no matter what. And yes, there would be many folks with the power of hindsight ripping him for going for it.  

 

It's like that old joke, once someone is on your nerves anything they do will irritate you. They just need to know what direction to angle it 

[GoBills808]

We talked about this earlier

 

I hated kneeling down for exactly this reason...I always want to be aggressive in these situations. I would have said the same if Allen threw a pick six in both Lions and Eagles games

 

the right choice is the right choice regardless of outcome

[julian]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I get what you're saying and you're not wrong. Situations were a bit different.

 

Dome Vs Rainy weather with wet ball

Lions pass rush last year Vs Eagles pass rush

3 TOs vs 1 TO.

 

Plus McDermott gets 30 seconds real time to weigh all this and decide. You have the benefit of hindsight to see how it played out and 2 days to think about it.

 

Again NOT SAYING HE MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE, however if he would have gone for it and there was a sack/strip, or an INT with a big return or any other number of things that would have resulted in the Bills losing in regulation, MANY of the the same people crucifying him for the kneel down would be crucifying him saying "You don't go for it in that spot, in that weather against that pass rush! Fire him NOW"

At the time I understood why he decided to take the knee and avoid a catastrophic mistake and just take your chances in overtime because I was scared of that mistake too.

 

 But I don’t want my head coach to be scared like me on my couch, he must be mentally strong, I need him to realize he has a 260 million dollar QB who could win the game with a single play.

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 minute ago, julian said:

At the time I understood why he decided to take the knee and avoid a catastrophic mistake and just take your chances in overtime because I was scared of that mistake too.

 

 But I don’t want my head coach to be scared like me on my couch, he must be mentally strong, I need him to realize he has a 260 million dollar QB who could win the game with a single play.

Being mentally strong and being foolish are a very very short distance apart. 

 

In addition to that QB, he has 52 other players. Anyone of them could have made a play as well.

[NoSaint]

33 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Again, in that situation a lot can happen...and most of it is bad. Someone getting quick pressure and causing a sack/fumble is a possibility.

 

Not like we have a QB that may try and make a big play and make a mistake at time  tho, right?

Main point was those that would want to criticize would be critical no matter what. And yes, there would be many folks with the power of hindsight ripping him for going for it.  

 

It's like that old joke, once someone is on your nerves anything they do will irritate you. They just need to know what direction to angle it 

if he doesn’t trust his franchise qb on that level then he should resign. 
 

Sure there’s a possibility a ball bounces off Gabe’s hands but otherwise coaching your qb to simply turtle on a bad snap, or if the line collapses shouldn’t be any type of feat. Thinking he can’t achieve that is saying you don’t believe he is an effective coach. 

[london_bills]

1 hour ago, Mikie2times said:

 

 

So why would we decide now that being aggressive in this situation isn't the right course of action? It's one thing to always say that is or isn't the right decision. That could be interpreted as somewhat philosophical even if it is against the probabilities. But to switch for no apparent reason. It just shows the level of planning and detail in these moments. It's based on gut feeling in the moment and not long term planning and probabilities. 

Because McDermott priorities defence over offense and was worried about their pass rush. 

[BillsFan130]

His reasoning was basically because the rain which is ridiculous 

makes absolutely no sense because up to that point, the bills had like 460 Yards of offence, only one sack and one turnover in about 88 plays.

The guy has absolutely no feel for the game 

 

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

His reasoning was basically because the rain which is ridiculous 

makes absolutely no sense because up to that point, the bills had like 460 Yards of offence, only one sack and one turnover in about 88 plays.

The guy has absolutely no feel for the game 

 

Not only that but we had also just seen a 60yard FG hit right in the face lol

 

 

[34-78-83]

45 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

We talked about this earlier

 

I hated kneeling down for exactly this reason...I always want to be aggressive in these situations. I would have said the same if Allen threw a pick six in both Lions and Eagles games

 

the right choice is the right choice regardless of outcome

To the bolded, that's great for you but unfortunately most others here would flip 180 degrees and say we should have taken it to OT if an Allen pick happened. We know how this goes.

 

btw I agree we should have been aggressive there with 20 sec... But its not a fire-able situation

[julian]

17 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Being mentally strong and being foolish are a very very short distance apart. 

 

In addition to that QB, he has 52 other players. Any one of them could have made a play as well.

When you have Josh Allen on a heater it’s a mistake to take the knee and not try and end the game.

 

 That being said, it wasn’t why they lost and he had a couple other decisions that were clearly much worse.

 

He’s a good coach who plays to his defense in situations that aren’t warranted. I still believe Allen can drag this team to the playoffs if McDermott will just get out of his own way.

[nedboy7]

2 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

 

 

So why would we decide now that being aggressive in this situation isn't the right course of action? It's one thing to always say that is or isn't the right decision. That could be interpreted as somewhat philosophical even if it is against the probabilities. But to switch for no apparent reason. It just shows the level of planning and detail in these moments. It's based on gut feeling in the moment and not long term planning and probabilities. 

 

It's an extremely poor decision that has been called out by everyone which should be embarrassing for him. 

[astb41]

I think it was a combo of the weather and being afraid Josh would force something causing a turnover and losing in regulation. With a clean 70 degree and dry day I think he goes for it.